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Discussion on Mouth ulcers, now very moody
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 15, 2009 - 9:59 am:
Good Morning all,
My mare went to the dentist Friday, I rode her Sunday and she was fine but when the trainer came out Monday, she was balky and rearing when you climbed on her back, totally fine on the ground and seemed happy but very angry with a rider. We tried 1 1/2 grams of bute(she is 14.2 QH, 1050 lbs) hand walked her for about 45 minutes, then free ran her in the arena for about 30 minutes(trainer says it takes the buck out) no lameness, she was bucking and playing and then resaddled her - behavior was worse - wouldn't move to the left at all and stuck in a right circle. Reared, even when I took a rein and gently asked her to move forward with the trainer on her back. Nostrils flaring and ears pinned. History: Started as a 2 yr old slow with about 15 rides - easy stuff - 3 yr old year a bit more training. This year is 'her year' to start really working <grin> Back in October, my filly all of a sudden started reacting to the bit and then not turning to the right. She would pin her ears and bite at the stirrup in anger. I ride off leg pressure, not reins. So, I had the vet out, who floated her teeth and pulled a canine. I rode her with a halter and she was still having issues with a nasty attitude when asked to move to the right so I had a chiropracter out in November. Her neck was definetely out (my first experience with a chiro) my mare is very sensitive, which makes her very easy to train but also a pain when she is uncomfortable.
So, the issues continued and since the chiro told me that since she is 'Doc Hickory' there is an attitude that comes with the genes LOL and that some was behavior and some pain. She continued to be difficult so I called in a trainer who started in March, 2 days a week. She rides with leg and very little pressure on the mouth. a couple of weeks ago, I felt a sharp edge in her mouth so I took her to a dentist that is also a vet. He found multiple mouth ulcers on the right side and a couple on the left. I was embarrassed and felt bad for my mare. The vet used power tools and floated her teeth, she still has caps, which one came out (3rd molar) during the float and he gave her bit seats. During the exam, he gave her a bit too much sedative so she wouldn't stay on the head stand and he tied her head up with a rope and kept slapping her to try to awaken her some. She was in a very awkward position in the chute and kept sliding out. He worked on her for about 45 -55 minutes in this position. He kept assuring me she was fine, but she looked terribly uncomfortable. She took the bit well on Sunday and actually didn't want to give it back to me after I rode (first time) but she then fell asleep in the arena, which I thought was a bit strange while I watched family ride my other horse but other than the sleepiness, she wasn't any different but the next day she was horrible. A lady at the barn does massage work and offered to look at her and she said she is very tight on the left side of her neck, just in front of the shoulder and very tight on the top left side down her back. You could see the difference just looking at her and really feel it but it was a first for a massage and frankly, each time she shifted her feet, another area would be tight and the tight area loose so could be nothing.
My question; (finally huh) What could be going on? is it normal for a horse to have muscle soreness from this - is it normal for a horse to react so violently to soreness only with a rider but not pressure? What should I be looking for? Should she go back to the vet to see if something is wrong in her mouth? If it is muscle soreness, how long should I wait (given her attitude) to try to ride her again? Since she is a dominant little lady, small mistakes (like getting off her when she acts up) tend to get worse.
Thanks to all - Kathy
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 15, 2009 - 11:03 am:
Kathy,
I know that when I use muscles that I haven't used in a long time, it is a couple of days AFTER using them before I feel the pain. If the muscles on the left are tight, it would be tough for your mare to bend right, and if her head was up at an odd angle with any resistance for her, her back could be quite sore. I'd give her another day or so to see if it is muscle soreness (maybe some warm massage on back and neck and shoulders) . . . or you could try bute and see if that reduced the attitude and reactions. Then you'd know it was pain related.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 15, 2009 - 11:11 am:
Kathy,
It's a coincidence, but last night I was watching Animal Planet. It showed a nasty accident. A barrel horse ran into the arena, and you could see that the horse wasn't right. It ran haphazardly, then balked. The horse's movements were so tense, I wondered if she was tying up in some way. The rider checked her sharply (bad idea) and the horse reacted with a couple uncoordinated bucks, then flipped over on the rider. The rider was hung up when the horse got up.
Now to me, this is the most remarkable part. The horse started to drag the rider, who said "whoa" and the horse stopped immediately! This was not how one expects a "crazy" or "ornery" horse to act. Afterward, the vet checked her mouth, and she had sharp points cutting into her soft mouth tissue.
I felt sad to read that you felt embarrassed about your mare's mouth problems on Friday. To me it sounds as if you are very conscientious about her mouth care. It also sounds as if she lets you know when she's uncomfortable, the advantage being that she informs you of a problem instead of putting up with it until it's so bad that she can't hide it. I hope you sort this out, I think that she's lucky to belong to you instead of someone who might beat on her for being "obstinate."
I hope that you can get the help you need here to sort this all out. Good luck.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 16, 2009 - 11:36 am:
I agree that a thorough exam needed by an experienced equine veterinarian needs to be conducted to determine if there is a disease process of some sort going on. I am not convinced that any of the issues discussed above are a cause. But I don't think the "neck being out of place" as much to do with anything. In fact I don't know what that means. The other things you mention are not clearly a issue and depend on severity and cause as to whether they may be causing the issues you describe. It is a judgement that requires examination.
On the other hand this site has hundreds of cases where horses this age have behavioral issues as they are being trained up. Taking them back to a comfortable level of training and starting there and proceeding more slowly has fixed many a horse like you describe.
DrO
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Member:
chrism
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 16, 2009 - 10:16 pm:
I'd also consider saddle fit as a possible issue - as she grew and filled in, she may have outgrown her saddle.
Or is the trainer using his/her own saddle? Perhaps it isn't a fit.
I'd certainly want to rule out saddle/saddle pad issues.
And, since the dentist seemed to do a lot of work, it may be worth irrigating her mouth with a weak saline solution for a few days to promote healing. How is she with cropping grass, chewing hay or eating grain? If she is managing that okay, then her mouth is likely okay.
You could also try her in a bitless bridle/sidepull of some sort to see if leaving the bit out settles her a bit.
Misbehaviors, to me, usually mean the horse is over faced and doesn't understand what is being asked (so DrOp back a few levels and make the learning increments much smaller) or there is something causing fear/pain. Some horses are more sensitive, or have a bit more tendancy to be naughty at times, but usually if you keep them busy doing their job at a level they understand, they have less time to play up.
Just some thoughts ...
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Apr 17, 2009 - 8:43 am:
When my oldest mare started acting crazier than normal, I had her teeth checked, and floated. She needed lots of work, and had sores all over inside her mouth. The equine dentist left me some blue stuff to keep putting in her mouth for a couple of days. It was antiseptic and helped her heal quickly. Just shot it in her mouth with a turkey baster.
She went from running sideways, bucking and rearing, to pretty darn docile within a few days.
She's a sensitive Arab, and there are still times when we get on her, and she won't move. Pins her ears and said NO. We respect that and check her over, let her be for a few days and she is fine again. (she's 20) She sounds like your mare; if she's hurting, you get attitude if you don't pick up on the fact that she is in pain someplace!
I'd give this girl a few days off, and just gently groom her, massage her; don't worry about it being "wrong" just watch her expression. She may be feeling like every time someone comes near her, she gets "floated, cracked, medicated, ran in circles" etc. Might cause me to have an attitude too!
A couple of days from now, start massaging her mouth, and nostrils, rubbing between her jaw bones, and start gently on the sides and see if she reacts in pain where teeth push against skin.
So in conclusion (Allergies keeping me tired, drugs keeping me wired, lol! My thoughts are scattered) Back off, let her rest & heal, do positive grooming, massage, start over again slowly with training.
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Friday, Apr 17, 2009 - 10:39 am:
Thanks for the feedback. It might be saddle fit but the fact that she was ridden Thursday with 2 different saddles(same pad - 100% wool) and then again on Sunday with the same saddle as Monday -
She IS hard to fit - saddles don't stay on her well as she has no withers, and is well muscled - These cutting bred horses seem to be getting shorter front legs and/or shorter withered, seemingly going downhill. My trainer has a bit of a 'bad' habit (in my mind) as she tightens the saddle often during a ride and is of the older school where the girth sits very close to the elbow (I put it back a bit when I ride) - it is really tight - when I went to climb on her to see if she would be OK with me - first thing I did was loosen the saddle some. Didn't change anything - we took the saddle on and off - checked for anything on the pad, girth etc - and put it back on without any change - then we got out the trainers saddle - it is an abetta (sp) that is really light and usually fits most horses.
she is very sensitive - one rainDrOp sends her running for the barn(she is better with age as I have locked her out on warm rain days) and she has had to learn to sweat as the drips running down her leg use to make her pretty irritated  . One other little thing that happened was they irrigated the pasture that weekend (first time for her) - my little princess doesn't like getting dirty so more than likely hadn't had a NAP !!!, she usually lays flat out twice during the day. Could that really be the cause? I keep thinking about her falling to sleep in the arena - while other horses were working around her...on Sunday - she is real quiet, but her head almost hit the ground LOL. I untied her - she stayed there and fell back to sleep. But the next day after 1.5 gms of bute - running her for 30 minutes and hand walking for 45 - she was still very angry. I tried to lead her forward with the rider, just one step and she refused. Moved freely without the rider.
She gets another massage tonight - and since I am out of town during the week - another trainer that is working my warmblood (he is in his first dressage show on Sunday and perhaps my litle princess is mad that he is getting more attention) has gotten her out 2 days and ground worked her gently with long lines said she is just fine - but she was fine on Monday with that stuff too. It really was a person in the saddle that she objected to.
I guess it could be just about anything - but if she did pull a muscle during the float - how long would it be before I can rule that out? Like someone said - when a person has a muscle sprain - it is the worst 48 hours or so later - and takes several days - would the healing time be the same for a horse - given their larger muscle masses - or longer? If she is still weird today - do I give her more bute? Poor thing - she is a wonderful horse - and has the potential to be great - Thanks so much for everything. Kathy
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