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  Discussion on Straw in SoCal?
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Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 5:58 pm:

First stupid question on US soil: As the horses around me live in 'dirtpaddocks' I thought I would bed their shelter with straw[I CAN buy it over here] so the poor dears could nibble on straw in between meals[as one is a QH and the second an Arab you all will understand time between meals will be long]
The hay straw seller nearly got a fit. He kept saying horses couldn't and shouldn't eat his straw. The only reason for this I could get out of him was that they would colic?
After thorough questioning he reasoned that they would get impacted if they ate straw[they will undoubtedly eat it as the only other choice is stand in the sun or shade with nothing]
I guessed it could be because they don't eat loads of nice wet grass over here. [I never had a problem with horses eating straw in Holland or France but always had them on pasture]
What is the verdict? Straw and pleasure or is it a real risk?
Jos
Member:
dustee

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 7:59 pm:

No it is not a risk - it is suicide.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 8:08 pm:

Hi Jos, It really depends, some horses can eat straw with no problem, others seem to colic. Surprisingly enough some straw can be as fattening as grass hay.

When I had a calf in the lean with the horses they were reaching under the gate eating the straw we had bedded it with. Hank did get a little colicky, the other 2 were fine...I don't even know if I can blame the straw for sure.

Maybe the thing to do would be get some stemmy grass hay instead, if you don't have that available, get a bale of straw and just give them a little bit at a time and see how it goes. I wouldn't start them off free choice on it, maybe a leaf to split between the 2 of them spread around. They usually don't gobble straw, like they do hay and 1 leaf may keep them busy for quite awhile...GOOD LUCK!
Member:
stevens

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 8:31 pm:

Diane is right; it depends on the horse.

My experience is that people bed with shavings or shavings-like things (rice hulls) in So.Cal. It is my understanding that shavings are viewed as easier to muck out and more acceptable to folks that pick up manure from large stables. Many places I've boarded do not allow straw for exactly that reason.

I've only seen straw used as bedding for mares ready to foal as it is larger and less likely to get ingested or inhaled by foals.

I agree that getting stemmy grass hay, and hanging hay nets would be a "safer" way to keep them busy between feedings.
Member:
dustee

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 9:45 pm:

I certainly didn't mean to come on that strongly, so pardon me, but the hay man was trying very hard to do you a favor. Over here horses are not supposed to eat straw. For the reasons this man told you. They can get impacted, they can colic, and they can get in trouble.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 10:10 pm:

Dusty, around these parts I have seen horses fed straw with no problems. There are different types of straw, ours is mostly oat straw and wheat straw.

Horse are fed Oaten hay(that's what we call it anyway as a regular staple, Which is basically straw with hay in it. It's just cut at a little greener stage of growth. Sometimes it looks just like hay and straw mixed...depends on who puts it up.

Personally I wouldn't feed straw, but a lot of people do and nothing goes wrong.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 10:10 pm:

Really? Years ago straw was plentiful and cheap, always used it for bedding. They ate some of it...never heard of such a thing!

Some folks fed straw when hay ran out. (not me)
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 11:39 pm:

my two cents from around here: wheat straw is fed by some people but not as a primary nutrition. I have not heard of any colic stories with regard to wheat straw ingestion. the only concern about using straw for bedding around here is that if the stalls are not cleaned regularly, a horse might eat soiled straw. my haflingers would eat anything that isn't nailed down and will eat ALL of the straw in the bedding even if I mucked the stalls three times a day. They are hoover machines. I do not use straw for their bedding. my mare doesn't eat the straw.

I do what Diane suggested for two of my three horses--stemmy hay. I mix the stemmy stuff in with the good stuff so it lasts longer. I also have "Slow Down Feeders" (check their website; it is a good product) to slow the Hoover machines down. But if they don't get to munch a lot, they chew on each other, and anything else in their reach. My QH/Paint is not such a hog and doesn't have to be given the stemmy stuff! The haflingers are hardy stock... ?

What does Dr. O. say?
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 11:41 pm:

Perhaps it was a misunderstanding...maybe he thinks you are using it as their 'main' forage instead of bedding that they may or may not nibble on. I used straw last winter...no problems but I do give free choice grass hay.
Also I heard that unless its specifically for horses it can be treated with chemicals. (like used for arts and crafts) maybe his straw was treated??
Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 11:56 pm:

This was straw specifically for horses[mares that just had foaled out are bedded with it according to the [very nice] man.
I know it is a low quality food that is not the issue. I always bedded with nice thick layers of straw so the horses had a bit to occupy them when locked in during the night and when they had finished their hay[oh and some COPD horses COULD eat a little straw without coughing which was a nice bonus]
Thing is I cannot find another reason why they wouldn't be able to nibble on it over here then not eating loads of grass which ofcourse is a bit of a laxative.
And the question is too how much are they going to eat of it. I have had horses I had to put on woodshavings because they ate about 50 pounds of straw a night[though without colicking]
Perhaps unless Dr O thinks straw in combination with hay is more dangerous then straw hay and loads of grass, I will just try with a bale and lots of stemmy hay?
I just hate horses having noting to chew on for a long period of time.
Jos
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 11:36 am:

Oh Dustylin, I've been known to 'come over very strong' from time to time, that's what happens if you care. I had understood the reasoning of the man was only asking for reasons WHY horses would react like that, I always like to know the why preferably based on 'scientific proof' and if that's not available I will have to go on experiences of as many knowledgeable people I can find.
Jos
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 1:59 pm:

Jos, at some of the bigger farms I worked on on the east coast we bedded with straw all the time and never had any problems. (as an aside, once you get used to it and have the right kind of pitchfork it takes no more time to muck a straw-bedded stall than a shavings one!) Of course as with you the horses were out on good grass all day. But even in winter when pastures were snowed under and the horses were on hay, we had no problems. Some horses would nibble their straw but not to any great extent.

When I moved to California I couldn't believe how many horses were fed exclusively oat hay, which to me looked like straw.. not something I would want to feed as a primary forage. I have often wondered how they could thrive on it but many did. Maybe the basic makeup of the fibers is different and more digestible than bedding straw?

Anyway I was thinking, maybe you could get some low quality oat hay (without a lot of seed heads) that could be dual purpose bedding and safe to snack on for your horses?
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 2:24 pm:

Thanks Shannon, you must have been just as surprised of the different ways a horse can thrive as I am now! The oat hay they offered was a three way[?] with lots of seedheads in it. My guess was that miss Arab would perhaps get to enthusiastic[she already has dumped her owner a few times and as she hasn't worked for a long time I plan on going slow]
I decided to take a bit of everything including straw, throw it in the shed on a rubber mat and see what they prefer.
To make up for the lack of juicy grass I managed to get the neighbour who sells vegetables to give me a daily supply of carrots. That's what I fed in Holland when the grass was finished or snowed under.
I must say I still prefer mucking out straw over woodshavings but as I have been known to sit on my knees to find the last pieces of manure in boxes occupied by horses that saw fit to bury their DrOppings under a layer of woodshavings it will be clear why I am faster with straw!
I am so happy France prepared me for the 'easy keepers' though I would have got the new additions in trouble had I had only experience with the 'other type'
I think I can conclude that quite a few people have the same experience as I have: if the straw is for horses and you get them used to it slowly it could work just depends on the horse.
Jos
Member:
mitch316

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 2:51 pm:

Hello all, for what its worth, I bed with the same hay I feed, because straw here is about $1.50 more a bale. It is a Timothy/Fescue mix. We don't have a problem with them eating much from the ground, because their mangers are filled,and they are usually turned out during the day if weather permits. We muck them daily; however, we are considering moving to sawdust, because with concrete floors, it can get slippery when wet...even with vinyl floor mats down. It will be a test basically, because sawdust is much cheaper (free) than $4.50 bales of hay. Quiet a few folks around here use sawdust, with no problems, but I have heard of a few ponies who were billy goats in disguise eating it and having problems. I would think that if a horse had allergies, or breathing problems it would not be advisable, as it is pretty fine...much smaller than chips. Think of using a chainsaw, as this comes from the local sawmill.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 5:14 pm:

Hi Jesse all the dairy cows in Holland used it so if I had an 'emergency no straw' horse I got a few bales.
It is a bit dusty but watering it down helps it is not slippery on concrete floors as it makes a nice layer [woodshavings were much lighter and often were even a bit more slippery in the beginning] and as to eating: if you water it down with a bit of 'creosoot'[the stuff you put on wood to stop them from eating don't know the English name]dissolved in the water they usually stopped this bad habit.
I would certainly try if it is for free and what also works is a layer under the hay you now use, so sort of a combination: less slippery and more absorbing.
Hope this helps
Jos
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 8:19 pm:

Jos, when we lived in Truckee we bedded with straw for foaling. Good, clean straw is very difficult to find, or at least it used to be, and you have to specify that you want dustfree, oat straw. Much of the straw is very dusty and often it is moldy. Our horses would sometimes nibble a little on it, but none of them actually ate it.

The latest issue of TheHorse mag. has a good article on dust in the barn and mentions straw vs. shavings as bedding. You can access the article also at: www.thehorse.com I think you'll find it helpful. Mainly you want something soft and absorbant, and esp. when foaling or when you have foals, something dust free. Often good shavings are as good or better than the straw you can find. If you want something for the horses to nibble on, I suggest low quality grass hay. I know where you can get some, too; just give Kathy a call. The barn she boards at got a whole load of stuff that I wouldn't even bother to feed!
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