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Discussion on Fat PONY Diet
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 6:50 am:
I have had great success with Hank with your help, so now I need ideas for the mare with the bowed tendon. By the way vet said Hank and Sam looked awesome !!!!
When Flash was on HWWD she looked really good weight wise and it really did help her be much more comfortable with her "issues".
Now I have stall/paddock rest in the picture things are not going so well
Right now her diet consists of 8-10 lbs. of grass hay,(quality is stemmy and not that great) a handful of soaked alfalfa pellets twice a day.
She goes out in a small pen to graze in the yard a few hours a day. The grass is pretty short where she goes. This is one thing I can't take away, it keeps her happy. Otherwise the tail in the air thing starts, she paws the gates/fence, paces.
Where do I start here, it doesn't seem as if she is getting much. She is around 13.2 hh. I haven't taped her lately, her bcs is 7. I would like to get her to at least a 6...5 would be better!
I do know from HWWD I have to reduce input, and I suppose as I type this the hay has to be cut back, it just seems as if reducing it further would cause some "problems"
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 9:54 am:
Diane,if you could see the little bit my two overweight horses (down to two fatties now, an improvement!) were eating you'd cry for them! At least they'd hope you would, and that you'd then feed them more. They are each getting 6lb of hay 2x/day and a handful of SafeChoice with vitamins. The one mare I can't work and the other gains wieght on air even with work and really packed on weight over the winter. It's sad, but I don't know of any other way to get them to DrOp weight. I do try to space their food out over the day at least.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 3:09 pm:
Sara are they getting any grass at all? I wouldn't feel bad about leaving her in her"grass pen" at least there are a few pickens.' I don't trust the crazy broad not to have some kind of fit when I'm not here tho! This is a hard one since I don't want her having a fit because she THINKS she's starved...and injuring the bad leg more. HMMMMMM
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 3:58 pm:
Not really. They get just a little a couple of times a week when they are turned out in the least grassy field for an hour at most. If they or any of the horses are out at all on the fields, their hay is reduced that night. I feel terrible, but these two HAVE to loose weight. The big "negatives" with Arabs are that most of them are very easy keepers and they never "wear down" they just get more and more fit. I had one horse that gained weight while on a week long ride up and down mountains! So, it's very difficult to work the weight off them! Working them more might help my weight; however, that's another matter!
Part of the problem I have is that not the same person feeds all the time. Lonnie's version of "not much hay" is a lot different than mine, and the young lady that cleans and feeds when I'm not home is used to feeding QH and really thinks huge flakes of hay is a "light" feeding.
I know what you mean about her "having a fit." That is a consideration. Our mare Maarissa (the one with the bad knee) basically hurt herself while throwing a temper tantrum. Lonnie didn't "get" the fact that she HAD to come in right after Beaulima, or ELSE! and threw a big fit, wrenching her knee in the process.
Do you have a small area, so small she would have a hard time hurting herself, that you can shut her in while you aren't home?
Or, if she's happy in the pasture, do you think she'd get too bouncy and hinder healing of her tendon? If not, maybe let her out part of the day and compensating by feeding very little hay might work? Just walking around eating shouldn't hurt her leg at this point, and sometimes you have to do the "lesser of two evils." It's hard, especially when you aren't there all the time to watch her.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 10:02 pm:
Hi Diane,
Well, I would cut back the hay. It is amazing how much nutrition they get from "not much" grass, and that keeps her busy and happy. Maybe cut each hay meal in half, and spread it around so she can't take huge bites and hoover it. And I would eliminate the alfalfa altogether.
My broodmares are on pasture during the day, and I have cut back their grass hay drastically at their feedings, even though they're nursing. Horse butts don't lie, and these girls are holding condition just fine on poor pasture.
She will adjust to less hay, if she notices it. And the extra weight is going to be a real problem for her with increasing soundness problems, and the very real risk of a full rupture on that partially ruptured tendon.
I have a working pony her size on drylot who is chubby on less hay than your mare gets, with no grass or alfalfa. It's sad that they eat as fast as 18hh horse, but sadder if the overfeeding kills them....
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 7:55 am:
I cut her hay back last night and was met by a crazy horse this morning . Her fit throwing would normally be quite amusing, but not with that leg.
I just give her a handful of alfalfa pellets, for her protein and to put her joint supp. in. She is not getting any alfalfa hay at this point.
I have a pen in the yard for her grazing, really not much grass, the pen is only about 20x20 and you can imagine she has if grazed to dirt!
I really have gotten much better about "starving" the horses, Hank and Sam have fits too, but that's ok
Somehow I have to cut her back and keep her quiet...that's the problem.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 9:51 am:
Hi Diane,
Are you certain she needs the protein in the alfalfa? Most grass hay has plenty of protein in it for an adult sedentary pony....
So here are things that you know from Hank's experiences, but I'll just say them again to annoy you. Feed restriction is upsetting for the horse owner, and appears to annoy the horse. With a low-work or no-work horse, feeding them may be our only daily fun interaction with them, and it makes us and the horse happy. For this and other reasons, it is emotionally difficult to feed restrict a horse. It is physically trivial to do so, yet many people "can't" do it, so it's obviously pretty difficult for most people.
Horses mostly adjust to what you feed them. It's unlikely that your mare will remain as worked up, if you stick to your guns, but it may take a while, and that will be uncomfortable. You also have an increased risk of her setting herself back on the partial-rupture, or fully rupturing the injured tendon.
So, options include:
1) cut back her hay and wait for her to settle, hoping for the best on the leg.
2) option 1+ support boots/wraps
3) option 1 + some sedation
4) decide that her quality of life matters more than weight-related decline or crisis, and feed her what makes you both happy, with the understanding that you *may* impact her longevity.
All of this, you already know! Guess I'm in an obvious mood. My only real advice is to be clear about her goals: happy now, or grumpy now with extended longevity (hopefully) and act accordingly without trying to have it all ways, and feeling guilty all the time. Either approach seems ethical to me.
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Member:
annes
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 10:33 am:
Diane, have you tried soaking her hay? I did that with my TWH last year and it really seemed to help with his weight loss. If you were afraid of vitamin loss with the soaking, you could supplement with human vitamins. I did that per DrO's article. Just a thought....Good luck.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 2:08 pm:
Diane remember my wailing stories about Grasse the french fatty?
Sounds like you are now in the same position. It didn't help me to cut the grasstime, she also would do something horrible if I tried to. soaked hay made her eat a little slower[and she had COPD so had to] and I tried some carrots but with the sugar I was very careful with them and they take even less time to eat then stemmy hay.
I feel for you!
Jos
PS Mike asked yesterday evening innocently if horses REALLY could put on weight and dapples within a week or if he remembered their appearance wrong....
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 4:38 pm:
Diane, I love my Slow Down Feeders. The Haflingers INHALE hay/grass otherwise. These things are great. It simulates grazing, gives them something to do, and makes the hay last much longer. 2x or 3x longer I think. You can attach them in a stall or on a fence. It was worth $300 for my piece of mind. I don't want them to be "upset, bored, etc." because their hay doesn't last long enough...and develop bad habits...when they cannot be out due to weather or too much lush grass... I have never tried a grazing muzzle, but I think I might this year. My "fatty" Haflingers have trimmed down a lot since last October when I bought the Slow Down Feeder. Google Slow Down Feeder and it will pop up. The feeding plate on top has holes in it for them to "graze"; the holes should be the size of the hoof. I started the Haflingers and the QH both on the Large Plate. After they became proficient "grazing" from it, I bought a smaller plate for the Haflingers even though the holes were a little smaller than their hooves (they have wonderful feet!) and they do just fine on it. Also there is a plug in the side close to the bottom in case you want to soak hay as well.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 4:56 pm:
Good idea but HOLY MOLY. They are supernaturally over-priced.
You can build your own with a 5 gal. bucket and some scrap plastic with a hole saw or dremel tool. The parts in this thing are worth something under $10. Wow. I get the desire to make a profit, but these are sky high.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 5:58 pm:
Good grief! You're right elk. I saw a post somewhere a while back where someone posted a pic of something with a similar purpose, if I remember right it was like a square wooden box with a piece of woven/welded wire that looked like hog panel fence put on top of the hay inside it weighted down in some way. You could probably make something similar for a reasonable price...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 10:13 pm:
I think in my big bale feeder thread there were ideas for slowing down pig eaters.
I have tried a haynet with the Princess, only to find it wrapped around her neck the next morning 5 gallon bucket...forget it she would have it demolished or her leg stuck in it....Did I tell you she is rather opinionated
I actually was eyeballing a "slow down feeder" at a farm store in the neighboring state...it was $149. Hopefully Flash will be able to go out towards the end of summer...so I just need a temporary fix and arena fence has me VERY horse poor.
Does this sound like I'm trading calories down...
I had gotten her an Uncle Jimmys hangin' ball, she hated it at first, but finally decided it wasn't all that bad...It is a one pound ball of sugar pretty much! It lasted her about 3 weeks and did keep her entertained. I never got her another. So 3 weeks of sugar ball and remove a few pounds of hay a day. Trading off calories, I could take away 2#'s hay a day over 3 weeks would be #42#'s of hay over a 3 week period VS. a one pound sugar ball HMMMMMM
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, May 1, 2009 - 10:17 pm:
By the way just to clarify my very 1st post she gets 8-10lbs of hay A DAY...not twice a day. The alfalfa pellets (literally a small handful) twice a day.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 1:04 am:
Diane, my easy keeper also lost weight while I was soaking her hay. If you did that Flash would still get the same amount of hay to keep her busy, but fewer calories. Also, I like the idea of quieting her down a bit, at least until the dog days get here. Perhaps some magnesium?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 8:02 am:
Thanks I guess it won't hurt anything to soak the hay and try...as long as Princess will eat it, which I have a feeling she won't!
For the most part she is pretty quiet, as long as she doesn't THINK she's being starved and the babysitters are on good behavior.
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