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  Discussion on Horses suffering since anti slaughter bill passed
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Member:
lisae

Posted on Monday, Jun 8, 2009 - 9:35 pm:

i live outside Las vegas and the ranch i work at is located across the street from a large horse rescue. In the past week, 3 horses have wandered into our ranch which where obviosly weak and dehydrated. It seems in nevada at least the consequences to the anti slaughter bill has almost made it worse for the horses. At least they have a relatively quick ending at a slaughter house. Don't get me wrong I am not someone who likes the idea of slaughtering horses nor would I knowingly send a horse there.Horses are being abandoned in rural desert areas by the handfuls and only a lucky few have found there way into our ranch where they were turned over to the rescue who will do right by them. There have been several attempts to DrOp off "a friends horse" at the rescue who will refuse an owner turn in without a rehoming fee in almost all cases. Luckily they have been writting down license #'s in such cases because several of those "friends horses" have been found walking the desert nearby several days later. The desert has many horse carcass's in different stages of decay. People who are not responsible for their animals will always want the easy way out. This trend in our valley to abandon horses is incredibly cruel with long miserable ends to an already sad story. the authorities have been trying to prosecute the people whose plates where identified but apparently it is not easy to get a conviction in these cases. Like i said our ranch is pretty rural and so there is miles and miles of BLM for the horses to wander around on between here and Las Vegas so they will probably start DrOpping them off somewhere a little farther down the road which makes the odds even less in favor of finding help once that horse is left on its own. There is some forage out there but an older horse would have a hard time with the course texture and the only sourse for water out here that isn't fenced off is who knows where. We do have big cats to help end their suffering but it is a sad deal any way you look at it. Is this a problem in other areas as well. A local group has even tried sponsering a free euthanasia day where owners can turn in their horses no questions asked and they will dispose the remains. if the horse was adoptable they would try their best to adopt it. This was even too much for the owners. several where discovered the morning of the event walking alonside the highway one obviosly hit by car and a few others tied to trees without water. when the sponsers arrived at the location they had even found 2 horses who had been shot and bodies DrOpped off for the sponsers to dispose of. This is so pathetic and unaccepable but what other avenues do the people in financial crisis see in these times of anti slaughter laws. I think slaughter is sad but maybe the lawmakers should work on legislation which at least protects the horses who are going to slaughter. Race horse breeders should be penalized for their practices involving the disposal of young horses that aren't fast enough or broke down and mustangs should also get some guidelines in their adoption programs. Here in Nevada our BLM has pretty much destoyed the viable mustang herd through poor culls for adoption. Old stallions are being left in the herd and all younger males removed leaving no compettition for breeding and therefore stallions are breeding longer and breeding to their daughters and again to the resulting grandaughter. herd quality is down and individuals are not doing well on natural feed. In addition they leave the colored (paint palomino)horses so the herd will be more attractive, but in reality these are usually the horses nature culls because they add extra visibility for the predators. The BLM has decided to fix their poor management with shooting them which is just devastating to a few of the newly formed rescues not too far away who have bid to adopt the horses. The BLM claims they are not experienced and denied several adoptions. one of those proposed rescues is a client and she has bought several thousand acres to provide safe housing. She has dedicated herself to a program which would help train adoptable candidates and be a long term solution to the others. i guess i got off the topic but just wanted to start a discussion and hear thoughts from others as to the happenings in other areas from this slaughter ban. I know the laws would be difficult to write to provide safety and compassion in the horses headed for slaughter and harder yet to stop the explotation of them but is it better than the alternative happening. I honestly am not sure what to think.
LisaE
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 5:46 am:

I believe the slaughter bill has often made things worse. In Indiana there is not the vast stretches of sparsely populated land like the SW and W. so owners are turning to the state parks. The folks at State Park admittance gates are counting horses and taking license plates #s to make sure a trailer leaves with the same number of horses it came to the park with. Folks are abandoning horses in the parks! Rescues are stressed in Indiana. I have heard of instances where empty trailers at horse shows aren't empty when the owners return to their trailers...another owner has put horse(s) he wishes to abandon in the trailer. I agree with you Lisa, the laws would be/are difficult to write, but the current situation is fast becoming unacceptable and many animals are facing a more terrible death, I think, than a quick end at the slaughterhouse. I suppose many of abandonments are the result of economic hardship? And perhaps those affected are not large operations, but the backyard owner who doesn't have space to bury a horse nor a backhoe? Or perhaps would rather abandon the animal rather than try to place it for adoption, give it away, or euthanize it? Hmmm. A sad situation indeed.
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 11:43 am:

Kerrie,
a friend and I were just talking about this idea.
Many people don't have the means to dispose of their horse or a place to put the remains.
A traveling clinic would be a wonderful solution.

Whether people would use it for perfectly fine horses, well, we know the answer.
Member:
kerrief

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 12:01 pm:

There is so much more than economic hardship that figure into what an owner decides to do or not to do. Emotions run high when faced with making hard choices. Perhaps some owners are emotionally paralyzed trying to make those hard choices. In their mind, turning the horse out to fend for itself at least gives it a chance, whereas euthanasia and slaughter does not.

As with everything, educating horse owners and potential horse owners is key. Provide people with resources and emotional support.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 2:00 pm:

It is a tough situation all around.
Member:
jjrichar

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 3:12 pm:

We are hearing of similar stories where ppl are turning horses loose in abandoned rock quarries, etc.

Could someone remind me what the purpose for the anti-slaughter bill was? Did it have something to do with exporting horse meat abroad for human consumption?
Member:
morg1

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 6:55 pm:

I went to an auction last summer with a friend. When we arrived with the truck and trailer she locked it, because a friend of hers had went to an auction before to find 2 horses he didn't buy in his trailer when he was ready to leave. So, this is also a problem in my area. I've heard that sometimes when the horses don't sell at the auctions some owners abandon them their and leave it to the auctioneers to euthanize them. I agree with Lisa. I would never send a horse to a slaughter house or even sell one at an auction, but I have to ask myself, "what is best for these horses."
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 8:34 pm:

Makes you wonder how many animals will have to suffer needlessly until our society figures this out! I just don't feel that it's actually the idea that a horse is being slaughtered for human consumption that is so deplorable, as it is the unneccessary inhumane treatment of those animals in the process. Temple Grandin accomplished so much in improving the conditions for cattle being transported to and slaughtered at processing plants, so why can't the same thing be done for horses? Seems to me it beats the alternative of starvation and abandonment.
Member:
jjrichar

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 9, 2009 - 10:27 pm:

I totally agree that slaughtering, assuming they are transported and euthanized humanely, is a far better alternative than unwanted horses being neglected and/or wandering around starving to death. The problem is that those same ppl that turn horses loose to fend for themselves are probably not going to have the decency to take them to a slaughter house either. It's a horrible situation that unfortunately, has no easy answer.

I do NOT believe, however, that horses are meant for human consumption and should not be raised like cattle for that purpose, here or exported abroad. They were not put on this Earth for that purpose. I am a pretty open minded person all around, but that is a personal and religious belief that I can not bend on.

I do think there is a middle ground and it was a completely knee jerk, ignorant decision for the government to wholesale shut down slaughter houses. It is a very complicated issue and I do not claim to be an expert on it, but the stories like you all described above I am sure will only get worse. This is where it is more important than ever, that, we, as horse owners, trainers, dealers, lesson givers, etc. can step forward and educate as many ppl as possible about this issue and the expense and responsibility that comes with owning a horse.

I heard that some of the slaughter houses are opening back up. Does anyone know if this is true?
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 8:05 am:

I'm not saying that horses should be raised for human consumption in this country, but I do acknowledge that there are cultural differences and traditions that are vastly different than ours. One can have a meaningful and personal relationship with almost any creature. I even saw a video clip of a guy who trained his goldfish to do tricks! Obviously, many people have quite a different relationship with horses, especially since we no longer see them as beasts of burden, but rather companions and partners. It puts a whole different perspective on the relationship and what we would or would not consider using our horses for. If you get right down to it, we really don't need to raise any living creature for consumption. Humans do quite well on a totally vegetarian diet, but, culturally we are still quite omnivorous.
Member:
kerrief

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 9:32 am:

Jennifer,

Unfortunately, the concept/practice of humane euthanasia and slaughter are not the same. Slaughter is anything but humane.

Animals cannot be euthanized by injection, then slaughtered, as the animal needs to be drug free for human consumption.

In my opinion, the methods currently employed at slaughter houses need to be reviewed.
Member:
jjrichar

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 11:17 am:

Kerrie, that is part of my point. I AGREE with you. Maybe you got me confused with someone else... I do NOT agree with human consumption and do think current methods are NOT humane, especially when it comes to transporting and handling. They need to be reviewed and corrected to properly fit the unwanted equine population.

Diane, I completely understand other cultures and countries that feel like it is acceptable to consume horse meat. I am not trying to debate their views, beliefs, etc. I think that is up to the laws in that country, to each his own, etc. And yes, I too could have a meaningful relationship with a goldfish, and a pig, cow, or just about any other animal. (Except maybe snakes. LOL)

The problem is, I believe, if we allow the exporting of horse meat for human consumption, it becomes a big business. Killers begin buying for premium prices at regular horse auctions, not the typical 'killer price' we all typically know enough to avoid. So, the family friendly horse now becomes a premium price per pound at the auction. In addition, as the demand grows, I believe ppl will go into the business of raising horses with the intent to slaughter them and it will not necessarily fix the unwanted horse population.

It all comes down to do we see horses as a 'livestock' like swine and cattle, or do we see horses as companions, show animals, and pets like cats and dogs?
Member:
kerrief

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 1:54 pm:

Jennifer, you're right...horse meat is big business.

Currently in Dade Co. Florida, privately owned horses are being taken out of their pastures/barns at night and butchered!
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009 - 8:48 pm:

Every animal is vulnerable to exploitation. Dogs, cats, chimps, rats, mice, pigs, etc..... are used and abused in labs in this country. There are rescue groups (God bless them!) for just about every creature you can think of;horses,dogs,cats,parrots,pot-belly pigs, chimps,exotic animals of all sorts. Just look at how the food most Americans consume is produced. Chickens,pigs,cattle,in such tight quarters they can't even turn around. The toxic affects of ammonia from there waste is poisoning them and the environment. It really has to do with respect for all sentient beings, and protecting and promoting humane treatment and conditions for all of them. Most of us are aware of how the giant agri-business operate, but how many of us actually go the extra mile to buy grass fed beef, cage free poultry and eggs, organically raised pork and lamb? Too expensive? consider the alternative. It's going to take a lot of educating and campaigning for animal rights to make any difference. I pledge to do my part, that's all I can do.
Member:
jjrichar

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 1:00 am:

Kerrie, Is there a slaughter house open in FL? I remember this happening a lot growing up in TX. Ppl would wake up to find their whole barn or pasture of horses gone only to find out later they were stolen and taken to slaughter houses.

I have come across some websites that have helped me to become a little more educated on the anti-slaughter bill. Here they are. Some of the stuff I read had me absolutely sick at my stomach and in tears. If you don't know how horses are slaughtered you need to read some of this. I couldn't believe it.

Unfortunately it is very hard to find 'objective' information. Everything out there is either for or against it. I have yet to find something that just states the facts and research so I have had to sort through both sides to better form my opinions. If anyone knows of any other resources please post them.

https://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/567
https://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/white_paper.php
https://www.aqha.com/petition.html
https://www.aaep.org/images/files/Grandin%20Presentation.pdf
Member:
kerrief

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 8:20 am:

No, there is not a slaughter house in Florida. These horses are being taken and butchered in their pastures or just off the property. Owners have come out in the morning to find the carved up carcasses. Absolutely horrific sight!
Member:
jjrichar

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 10:03 am:

WOW how awful! Do you know why they are doing this? Is it to sell the meat or what?
Member:
juliem

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 10:26 am:

The speculation is they are doing it because they are hungry. The economy has hit horses hard in more ways than one. It's easier for a non cowboy to catch a horse than a steer. Selling the meat commercially without USDA inspection would be pretty tough. The actions of well meaning people that closed the slaughter plants have caused more unintended suffering and consequences than ever imagined. When they can stop patting themselves on the back for closing the plants, they need to start writing checks to rescues and taking on a horse or twenty themselves. We've beat this topic to death and the reality is the horses are suffering despite what we think horse owners and breeders "should" do. And Jennifer, I don't really know what purpose horses were put on this earth for. I would be interested in how you know that or is it just your "belief?"
Member:
zarr

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 12:48 pm:

"Where in the wide world can man find
Nobility without pride
Friendship without envy
Or beauty without vanity?
Here where grace is laced with muscle
and strength by gentleness confined.
He serves without servility
He has fought without enmity.
There is nothing so powerful
Nothing less violent, there is nothing so quick
nothing more patient.
All of our past has been borne on his back
All our history is his industry.
We are his heirs, he our inheritance."

The Horse by Ronald Duncan
Member:
kerrief

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 6:36 pm:

An article published by The Horse.Com stated that it is speculated that the horses were slaughtered for their meat to sell on the black market.
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Thursday, Jun 11, 2009 - 6:54 pm:

This is such an emotional issue. No horse lover wants to see any horse suffer, whether its from abandonment, cruel or ignorant treatment, or an unlucky, premature end to life at a slaughterhouse.

I think that we all must do our part to educate horse owners, future horse-owners and the public on these issues. If someone needs to sell or re-home their horse(s), then we've got to do our best to make sure they understand what likely will happen to their animals depending on the choices that they make.

And anything that we each can do to help, by donating our time, expertise, networks, and resources will help. Collectively, our efforts can add up to make a difference.

I realize that I am probably preaching to the choir here, but I want to add my voice to the "atta boy, atta girl" chorus, because I know that many HA are already doing these very things.

I agree that its difficult to find hard facts and data free of bias. But from my reading I've come to the conclusion that the largest force driving the abandonment of horses and other animals is the economic downturn more than the closure of the slaughter houses.

I'm not sure what we can do to help the economy recover, but I do know that we can help horses by advocating responsible horse ownership, by doing our best to help out during these hard times, and by continuing to seek out the facts on these difficult issues.
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