This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Hoof Care, Hoof Trimming, Shoeing Horses » The 4 Point or Natural Trim »
  Discussion on Now what?
Author Message
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 - 1:08 pm:

Although i am reading as much as possible, the sooner I get started, the less there will be to do.

HB's hoofcare guy, Dave called this morning. He had an accident and will be out of action for a while (4 broken ribs...6 weeks?). Poor Dave.

Anyway, HB is at 4 weeks today, and I want to keep his feet working for him until Dave can get back. I trust myself with the rider's rasp when I know that he'll be back soon to redirect whatever needs it. I am not inclined to call a farrier. He is a difficult horse for strangers to handle, and to ask someone to trim him as interim strategy seems wrong for them and him.

Please, any suggestions?
Member:
pattyb

Posted on Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 - 1:40 pm:

Dear Susie in AR,

I have one of those horses as well so it was easy for me to say to myself, "what would I do in that situation?" Farriers usually have farrier or hoof trimmer friends, could he maybe line up one to help him out during his recovery period? The farriers around here tend to volunteer to do so as they never know if their turn is next.

Maybe Dave could talk with someone who would be interested in helping him out.....the ole "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours one day when you need me" approach? If not, I would start reading and studying angle pics being very careful not to take off to much. Done very slowly and with some guidance, you may be able to pull thru for the weeks needed?

Good luck, keep us posted ok? I think we've alllll been there/done that at some point in our life of horsedom.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jul 20, 2009 - 8:06 am:

Hello Suzie,
Besides studying the articles on trimming and balancing the feet, consider taking lots of images.

The hardest thing for new trimmers is to create a picture of the ideal trim in their minds so they can then remove the parts of horn growth to return the foot to the ideal. Good photos of the feet may help you keep that ideal in mind.
DrO
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Monday, Jul 20, 2009 - 10:29 am:

Thanks DrO and PattyB. I'll get some photos and call Dave. I'm out of action today (sick), will take my camera to those feet ASAP.
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 22, 2009 - 12:01 am:

I did find a competent trimmer for my horse, and he came by today. He was able to trim his feet without even haltering him; he brushed him for a while, gave him a couple of treats, and did his feet for him. It took a little time for HB to hand over his hind feet, but once he did, it went well. Impressive considering that the horse is normally extremely defensive.
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Friday, Sep 4, 2009 - 7:40 pm:

I've been following DianE's roller-coaster ride with Hank's feet under Hoof Critique. I decided to update what happened when Dave, the hoof care guy got kicked and was out of action for a while.

In my last post, I reported finding a competent interim trimmer, which shows how much I do NOT know. Poor Hairball wasn't quite right for the next month. He wasn't comfortable, and his gait was wrong, not as smooth, the cadence was off. So, I stayed off of him until Dave could come back.

Dave was able to work on his feet four weeks after the other guy. He said the toes were too long, and the hooves were not balanced correctly. He trimmed a bit here, a bit there, and without taking off very much at all, Hairball had his old gait back! Dave said to let him rest a week because he had taken more than usual to get him going in the right direction again.

On Wednesday, I was out for three hours, stoney dirt road, hilly trail with some rocky places, sand wash, and he's back to his old comfortable self. He's happy, I'm happy, and I expect that the after a couple more trims, and more chances to tend to details, he feet will continue on the improvement course they were on before.

Here is the lesson to me (finally). The trims might look pretty much alike to me, but the devil is in the small details. Not all trimmers are equivalent, and long term experience is no guarantee of quality work. One lackluster trim with no glaring problems ruined 5 weeks of riding time, and his feet, which were almost "just right," now need a couple more good sessions to catch up to where they were and begin again on the original improvement plan.

I regret not taking pictures then. I could have learned so much from your observations and responses. However, I hope to get pics of his feet this weekend and then follow what happens in the next 2-3 months.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 4:24 am:

Thanks for the update Susie, I follow ALL hoof threads!
Could you post pics of Hairballs hooves?

You are lucky to have a good trimmer! My guy is OK I think, and all that I have. The farrier I had before him was horrible and Hank paid the price and still is.

I'm glad it all turned out well for you. It is quite amazing how just a small wrong tweek can make the horse sore, especially if they are prone.

I am going to take pictures when Hanks shoes come off(hopefully tonight) without being trimmed, maybe I can get some ideas of what he needs before the farrier comes on the 11th. He was shod less then 5 weeks ago and he is long already!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 4:55 am:

Susie,

For some reason I missed this discussion until today.

You make such a valid observation:

"Here is the lesson to me (finally). The trims might look pretty much alike to me, but the devil is in the small details. Not all trimmers are equivalent, and long term experience is no guarantee of quality work. One lackluster trim with no glaring problems ruined 5 weeks of riding time, and his feet, which were almost "just right," now need a couple more good sessions to catch up to where they were and begin again on the original improvement plan."

I struggled for over 2 years doing my own trimming on our 4 horses. My only personal help was sending LOTS & LOTS of pictures to some one I met on a yahoo barefoot group. Yet it wasn't until I bought Ramey's DVD set on trimming that I made progress.

One thing Pete stresses is less is more. Those little things make a world of different in whether or not the horse is lame, so/so, or really moving out well. And some horses can tolerate little things better than others.

My Tango is like Diane's Hank; Flares, ouchiness, etc., I have to do his hoofs just right, and keep up with them also. I honestly don't think he would ever be comfortable with having someone do his hoofs every 6-8 weeks! MAYBE with the more movement of my track now...and with some areas of gravel & stones on it. MAYBE.

I am glad Dave is back, and Hairball(Is that seriously his name? my son called our horses furballs when he was little)is sound & comfortable again.

I wish that everyone who owned a horse would learn how to keep the hoofs beveled. If everyone did that between trims, I believe that their horses would be so much more comfortable.
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 10:28 am:

DianE and Angie, I appreciate that you read my post and took time to comment and share your experiences too. No, Hairball isn't his real name; he earned it with his incredibly thick winter coat. Here is a link for his "party name."
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/calliente+de+vison

Dave trims him every 4 weeks, and makes small adjustments each time. If I had the $, I'd have him in every week for minute touch ups instead. He explains what he's doing, and encourages me to do "touch ups" with the rider's rasp. You'll see when I post photos, that Hairball's feet still need improvement. His frogs each had a deep fissure as the sulcus, and he had chronic thrush in there.

He still has flared quarters, but the length is getting shorter and shorter. In spite of this, he gets along fine barefoot. His frogs are too small, but are opening up, and his heels are opening a bit too. He's a good example of a horse with imperfect feet (from imperfect shoeing) that adjusted to barefoot.

He stays outdoor 24/7. His living area has stony footing, sandy footing, a hard-packed area, and a good slope between where he rests and where he eats. He plays a lot with his friend, running up and down hill, and using all the different footings in the process.

At this point, I will do whatever I need to to avoid using metal shoes. I remember reading years ago that most foot problems develop in reaction to cumulative insults incurred by wearing shoes, and although overfeeding, neglect, inactivity, and injuries can't be discounted, there seems to be some truth in that.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 12:10 pm:

Suzie,
I agree wholeheartedly in that the devil is in the details. My own struggles at going barefoot have been documented in my other posts.

Here is where I differ, I do not believe its the "shoes" per se that are the devil, its nailing the shoes onto the horses feet that creates the problems. I think the shoes with the nails constricts the foot when it lands, instead of allowing it to expand as it would do naturally with ground contact.

The way I have my mare now, there is no constriction and her foot is allowed to expand even though she must wear shoes to race, train and jog daily.

I also believe in not doing any drastic trimming or making drastic changes to anything I do with my horses. In my opinion, when people only trim every 6-8 weeks they are leaving their horses open to the possibility of problems. They want their money's worth, so when the horses feet look so drastically different they are happy, until the problems show up and especially if you do not have someone that understands the "details".

It takes a very patient horse owner with a very competent trimmer to not be upset when the trimmer comes and only removes a little bit at a time, but really when a horse gets the right amount of exercise, the right nutrition and the right hoof care, he/she should be wearing his/her feet down naturally, so that when the trimmer comes, he is only fixing the small imbalances that happen over time and yes the biggest trick is the bevel and as long as we have a way to do that then we might possibly go longer in between trims.

Rachelle
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 1:28 pm:

Hi Rachelle,

I agree with all you said. It isn't really the shoes, it's the effect of nailing them on, thereby "trapping" the hoof for 6 to 8 weeks at a time. I'll read about your mare, I think that I missed seeing what you reported.

I agree too about most people going too long between trims, which often necessitates trimming more from the foot. I winced at the thought of every four weeks at first, but I am a believer now. I want to learn more too so that I can shave a millimeter here and there between Dave's visits.

Your posts, and the posts of other members have helped validate my choice to keep HB barefoot, and I'm still learning here. Thanks for sharing what you know.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 2:10 pm:

I hate to get off topic, but is everyone getting the posts to Susies thread in there e-mail?? I am getting everything except her thread, can't be the section as I receive the e-mails in the thread about Hank (hoof critique) I haven't got one e-mail about this post since Susie reopened it...weird. Is it just me?
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 3:06 pm:

Strange, I get notifications about this thread. I am sorry to hear that you don't, DianE.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 3:20 pm:

Diane,

I have been getting all of the messages in this thread, however sometimes I do get an occasional hiccup. I get new messages dated months ago that were from threads that are no longer active, like a missed post. I get the ones before and after and months later a new one shows up.

I've noticed that over the last few weeks the display has changed and it looks like the program Dr. O uses to maintain this forum has been updated. Maybe its just a glitch in the system which will eventually straighten out.

Rachelle
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 3:31 pm:

Suzie,
Do a search on "Out of defeat comes victory", and you will find my post on my barefoot trials and tribulations with my racemare.
Rachelle
Member:
sodmonst

Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 6:46 pm:

Thank you Rachelle. I went to the thread and read with interest. Watching the race was a treat too. She kicked the competition to the curb didn't she!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 4:11 am:

Diane,

Maybe that's why I didn't see this discussion right away? I normally click on everything that comes into my "Horses" folder even I don't think it will interest me. I am sure a "Now What" title would have caught my attention.

I also notice that sometimes one post will come in, and there were a few before it that didn't on the same discussion. I figured it was because I use incredimail, with a gmail account and maybe it don't transfer to incredimail?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 6, 2009 - 4:22 am:

To get this out of this discussion maybe if you are having problems you should put them in Dr.O.'s critique discussion. Seems like at least a few of us are having weird problems with the e-mail notifications. I did get one notification of it this morning.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC