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Discussion on Out of defeat comes victory-Solution for barefoot racehorse
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 11:17 am:
For the past three years, I have been experimenting with all types of solutions to keeping my horses either barefoot or at least no nails in their feet. I have used boots, Sigafoos shoes, glue-on shoes, barefoot and hoofwear. Each experiment eventually lead back to nailed on shoes either from a cost perspective or a wear perspective. After three years I was very frustrated.
The solution came about by accident. My horses have been trimmed using the HPT trim method of KC La Pierre and my Equine Podiatrist has worked with me through all of my crazy ideas. It has always been my thought that it is the trim that keeps my horses sound because the bony column stays in proper alignment and thus does not create problems in the skeletal system starting from the hoof and moving upwards.
However, as soon as the shoes go on, the foot dramatically starts to change. Much of this is due to how the feet are prepared for the shoes. The bevel gets lost, the breakover point moves and the ground contact that the frog and the heels have is no longer there. So, within a short period of time we are back to the long toe low heel situation.
This was what I was dealing with at the end of June 2009. My racemare, who usually has the nicest looking legs that I've ever seen on a racehorse was starting to show some wear and tear on her legs. The fact that her angles were 51 degrees behind was not helping. She couldn't go 2 1/2 weeks without having to get new shoes due to wear and tripping behind, because she was constantly getting shod, her feet were not growing and her hoof walls and soles were getting very thin. She also was beginning to have additional attitude problems which she doesn't need. So, I decides to pull her shoes and give her a bit of a vacation. I am not sure if she or I needed it more, but because there was a break in the racing action at Freehold. I decided to use this time to see if I could go barefoot with her.
I pulled her shoes and did an HPT trim on July 2. I gave her 10 days off after the trim. I started towing July 12 and training every 5 days on July 17 and she did very well having no shoes did not bother her one bit. All of her jogging and training took place on a dirt/sand track and if only we could race on a dirt/sand track everything would be well. But alas this is not the case. We have to race on a very abrasive stonedust track. I knew that she would need something on her feet to protect them from this abrasive surface. So, I put a combination of Perfect Hoofwear and Vettec Superfast on her and trained her one trip on the sand/dirt track and one trip on the stonedust. Everything was fine on the sand/dirt track and the hoofwear and superfast held up very well. However, the trip around the stonedust track basically destroyed the Superfast leaving very little on the bottom of the Hoofwear. I decided to leave what was left of the Hoofwear which was still intact and I called the farrier with the intention of having her shod (Ugh another failed attempt at barefoot/no nails).
I gave her the day off after her training and had the farrier come out the following afternoon. After thinking about it, I had the farrier, nail the shoes to whatever was left of the Hoofwear with baby nails. Any rasping(very minimal) to level the surface was done to the Hoofwear and not her feet. And her regular shoes were nailed on. She has been jogging and training like this for three weeks. She qualified on August 7 and raced well on August 14 (no problems).
Fast forward to this morning August 17. I went to tow her and kept hearing a funny noise, I thought one of her shoes was loose ( which it was)and since I did not want her to step on any nails, I took her back to the barn. I found my shoe pullers and just as I was going to try and get the nails out and get the shoe off, it just came off in my hand like a slipper. Apparently, only the three little dots of glue that hold on the Hoofwear were holding the shoe on the foot, there were no nailholes. Her foot was pristine and ready for another trim and another set of Hoofwear (tonight) and shoes (tomorrow). I was thrilled. I finally had a solution that worked without changing the trim, unbalancing her feet and that was somewhat cost effective.
I have also noticed her attitude is much better and even though its been three weeks, she is not tripping even though she needs a trim. And whereas before she was dull when I would turn her out, the last 10 days, she has been her old self, running and playing like a horse when turned loose in her field.
She is due to train tomorrow and race on Friday.
The trimmer took pictures when we did this and he is supposed to be bringing the disc with him tonight. So, hopefully I can post pictures of all this including the slipper/shoe that came off this morning showing the nails in the hoofwear, not her feet (which I did not know had happened until it came off in my hand this morning). I thought for sure they were in her foot.
This could be an alternative to nailing on shoes for horses that are in heavy or not so heavy work so their feet can stay healthy and they can stay sound.
Comments, Questions?
Rachelle
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 12:10 pm:
That is very interesting! So the nails were in the hoofwear and not her hoof....maybe you should market that . Kind of like a shoeboot.
Do you think that the hoofwear glue will continue to hold that well tho?
Looking forward to pics.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 1:15 pm:
Diane,
The only reason the shoe came off at all was because of the hoofgrowth pulling it down the wall and loosening it up. The other three shoes are on fairly tight. I could go another week on these shoes because she was level and balanced when the shoes went on there is relatively no wear on the shoes except for the nailheads. Normally, by now the swedge would be gone and I'd be looking at a new set of shoes.
The Hoofwear can stay on for up to six weeks and its meant for rehabbing or transitioning horses. Although my trimmer has used it in a variety of applications including with glue-ons. I could have had them glued on but I felt between the Hoofwear and the shoe, the glue would have been overkill.
Not sure if this can be marketed as anyone could do this.
Rachelle
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 1:22 pm:
Rachelle, I was so excited reading through your post! I can't wait to see the pictures. It sounds like you've finally found the solution and might have saved me some brain damage! I have a yearling filly that I'd like to put into reining training as a 3 year old. I keep my riding horses barefoot and would like to do the same thing with her. The problem is sliders. I've been searching for a no-nail solution for sliders and this just might be the ticket.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 1:42 pm:
Sara,
Another thing that excites me about this is that I have a yearling, that I do not want to nail shoes on ever. I trained his brother barefoot and had no problems even on a stonedust track until I put shoes on him. Then the fun began.
If I can avoid the nails by doing this I will be that much ahead of the game as this colt has never had shoes on.
When you buy the kit everything comes with it, Hoofwear for 4 feet, glue, gloves etc. The only thing you have to be careful of is to make sure the back of the hoofwear goes on under the heelbulb so it won't rub. I cut it down after I put the shoes on.
Good Luck with your baby.
Rachelle
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 2:35 pm:
Very exciting, Rachelle -- keep us informed, please.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 5:09 pm:
I am very interested also in following how this plays out. And can't wait for pictures; I am not sure what your hoofwear is, but sounds like something I need to know more about.
If I may ask another question? Do you know what difference there is in KC's trim method vs Pete Ramey? If there any even.
Thanks
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 5:20 pm:
Angie, I had to look up Perfect Hoofwear after Rachelle mentioned, too! Here's the website: https://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/perfecthoofwear/index.html I'm assuming this is what Rachelle is using. I'm very familiar with Super Fast since that's the adhesive we're using for my colt's cuffs. https://www.vettec.com/65/products/superfast.html It's a VERY strong adhesive. Dries and sets within a couple of minutes and gets extremely hot for a few seconds while setting. It does get uncomfortable for the colt during this time but he gets over it quickly.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 6:03 pm:
All,
Here is an update from tonights trimming. I decided to leave the Hoofwear off for a few days and push her training and racing out until Friday (train) Monday (race). Since she doesn't have to train until Friday, I can leave her shoes off and jog her on the sand/dirt track. She will most likely get tomorrow off since I always give my horses a day off after they get trimmed. I may even train her barefoot and put her Hoofwear and shoes on after she trains.
The other three shoes had some of the nails in the outermost portion of the hoofwall ( very minimal and the nailholes were completely gone after the trim. I also don't know if some of the nail holes were leftover remnants of when the shoes were originally pulled July 2. It was mainly the three glue spots on each foot that held the shoes on, not the nails and once the back part of the Hoofwear was cut, the shoes came off easily.
Unfortunately, the trimmer did not stop home and get the disc with the pictures, but I will remind him on Thursday to make sure he brings it with him.
As far as the differences between Pete Ramey and KC La Pierre. Pete goes for shape and look of the wild horse hoof and KC goes for form and function for performance horses. Performance horses are used differently and are not wild horses whose environment shaped their feet. Although environment plays a big part in a performance horses feet, most are not in the best environment for good feet.
KC explains it much better than I do and there are a lot of articles on the website with lots of information. I also think another difference is the structures that are used to balance a horses feet, although in general a properly balanced foot should be the same no matter what structures one uses to balance it.
Rachelle
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 6:16 pm:
Sara,
We actually formed a shoe with the Superfast on the outside of the Hoofwear, the Hoofwear itself only uses three small dabs of glue to stay on. It does have an adhesive in the Hoofwear itself but that adhesive does not adhere to the foot only to the layers of Hoofwear.
I am assuming that your farrier is glueing on your cuffs with Superfast because it set so quick and that means you only have to keep your colts hoof up for a very short time. Other wise there are other adhesives that he could use.
Rachelle
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Aug 17, 2009 - 7:44 pm:
Hi Rachelle, thanks for the clarification. Do you know what type of adhesive it is that keeps the Hoofwear on the foot? The three small dabs? I have seen demos of how shoes are made with the Super Fast so I understand better now what your "shoe" looks like.
In the demos I've seen they put the Super Fast directly on the hoof to create the shoe. Did you opt to go with Hoofwear then Super Fast shoe then metal shoe to avoid having the adhesive directly on so much surface area on the hoof?
And, yes, we're using the Super Fast because it sets so quickly. With as young as he is there's no way we could get him to hold up his foot for the 15 minutes that some of the adhesives take to set. The Dalric cuff kits come with an adhesive that takes about that long and the instructions include sedating the foal. I decided it was easier on everyone not to go that route.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 - 3:18 am:
Sara,
I think the glue is somewhat like Vettec's Adhere, it's very strong and sets up quickly.
My original intent with the Hoofwear and the Superfast was to use only that and no metal shoe, but after the fiasco with the stonedust track, I realized that was not going to work. This next revision on Thursday I am not using the Superfast, just the Hoofwear and the metal shoe. We left the Superfast remnants the last time because there was really not much left, but too much to completely rasp away.
As far as the adhesive times, there is a set time and a cure time. While the cure time might be much longer say 15 minutes or more the set time for most adhesives is very fast. Grand Circuit and Vettec have products that are slow and fast. I know the fast stuff sets up in two minutes or less and the slow stuff takes a little longer. This is so the farrier has a chance to get the shoe on the foot properly and the bond between the foot, glue and shoe is strong. When using the cuffs, I am not sure you have this problem and the cuff would be set very quickly and the foot can be put down almost immediately.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 - 5:04 am:
Thanks Rachelle, I saw KC on tv, but it didn't tell me much.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 - 7:41 am:
Okay, so now I'm even more interested to see the pictures! It didn't look like there was much thickness to the wall of the Hoofwear so I can't seem to wrap my head around how you would nail on a shoe without the Super Fast and without penetrating the hoof wall with the nails.
You're right about the set time and the cure time on the adhesives. I can't remember which type of adhesive was to be included in the kit with the cuffs but it had a much slower set time. I opted to purchase only the cuffs and not the kit. You're also right that the cuffs don't have to be absolutely perfect like a shoe so I'm not sure why they include the adhesive with the slower set time.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 - 9:29 am:
Sara,
Once the hoofwear is wrapped on the foot it provides extra "hoof wall" almost like using adhesives to rebuild a damaged hoofwall with less negative outcomes because there is no glue on the underside of the foot. We also used baby nails, 5 in each foot, so there was relatively minimal damage to any part of the hoof wall that the nail caught as it was nailed on to the Hoofwear. The nails barely touched the outer wall. Since part of this mares problem was the fact she had been getting shod so often that the nailholes never grew out and that weakened her feet(IMO), with this trim those nailholes are completely gone including any minimal damage from this past shoeing. I'll take this over the alternative any day.
I guess another way to look at this is to picture a finger with several layers of gauze on it and then someone putting a safety pin through the gauze. You might feel the pin as it passes through the gauze, but it wouldn't stick you because there were too many layers between you, the gauze, and the safety pin.
The one thing I will note is that because the Hoofwear is black, your farrier must know where he is nailing.
This is a work in progress, so I will report back on Thursday with what we decided to do.
Rachelle
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 - 9:06 am:
Thursday Update a few days late.
Well, we found some issues when we got the 3 other shoes and hoofwear off the other feet.
One of her feet had some bacterial issues going on, but I think this might have been a good thing because this is the leg that I was having issues with a lump behind her knee that refused to go away, then that finally left and I had a lump on her tendon, that left and what I think happened is that whatever it was traveled down into her foot and is now leaving via her frog. I have had several horses do this, so I am always on the lookout for it whenever I have an injury higher up in the leg.
We redid the Hoofwear and put some Today under it and I have been treating it like this for several days. The hoofwear actually keeps the Today in the foot so it can work.
This time we did not put anything( Superfast,Adhere) on the bottom, but if I go back to the Hoofwear next time, I may do that as it gives the hoof an additional surface to nail into.
Sorry, no pictures. The trimmer said when he downloaded the pics, none of them were usable. He said it may have been the humidity or the camera, so all my beautiful work went down the drain.
I am now working on another idea that may even be better. I'll let you guys know when I get them done.
Rachelle
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 23, 2009 - 3:46 pm:
Ahhh...too bad about the pictures. I was really looking forward to them.  I'll be watching for updates, though. Thanks!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 10:17 am:
After race ( August 25th) update. Well, the girl went and surprised me yet again and won her race by a 2 1/2 length widening margin. This after throwing a hind shoe, turning her kneeboot around, getting interfered with and not getting the trip she likes. She was at a new track and had a new driver and she won any way. As pissy as she is sometimes I love this little mare she tries so hard.
The track maintenance guy found the shoe and it was reglued on this morning at 6 am (way too early for me). No busted up foot, no sharp edges. No stepped on nails. I am not sure where she lost the shoe because I watched the replay and didn't see anywhere where she even took a rough step or see anything flying off her. She could have lost it scoring down before the race which in that case she raced barefoot on one side. I give her a lot of credit, she is very game.
I'll post the win picture as soon as it comes.
Back to work on my newest idea
Rachelle
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 10:33 am:
Absolutely fantastic, Rachelle!! Congratulations!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 11:18 am:
Congratulations, Rachelle!
Have you ever considered that we try too hard to make everything perfect for these horses? Mikey had his best ride ever when he had to go back for a re-ride due to a tie. He was flat out sound asleep. We drug him out of his stall, brushed shavings out of tail and mane and tightened the girth while walking to the arena. No warm-up. He had a perfect score and won the class!
So, maybe your mare's "trick" is a little messy, things no right, etc.!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 12:33 pm:
Awesome Rachelle, nice work!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 1:16 pm:
Sara Wolff,
This mare is very funny, but I have come to the conclusion that she races the best when she is most relaxed and doesn't have time to get herself stirred up. Last week at Freehold, she was a pistol, dancing around, rearing up, kicking the walls, I could hardly get her harnessed to warm up or to race. This week she practically fell asleep in the paddock before she raced and was very cool calm and collected warming up, and the days leading up to the race, I thought she was rather dull with no life to her and if she didn't race well, I was going to get her scoped to see if she was sick.
One of the things I did to her this week as opposed to last week was that she got fed at her normal lunch time and her feed was mixed with some triple crown safe starch forage, so it was a pretty big lunch for a horse that was going to race in a few hours. But I think with her, her nerves get to her and having something substantial in her belly calms her down and relaxes her. Most racehorse people pull the feed, hay and water before they race especially on horses that get lasix. I do pull her water after she gets her lasix about 4 hours before her race, but I also make sure she is well hydrated up to that point, she gets water in everything that goes into her mouth. Apparently this system works as she does not require much maintainance other than 3 times a day (in feed) electrolyte supplementation because of the lasix.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 5:23 pm:
Hey Rachelle,
Is there any place, like YouTube, where we can see your mare race? I haven't seen a harness horse race since I was a kid. Starting to feel like I know this mare, would love to see her race.
Congrats on the win!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 - 6:46 pm:
I think that is the key, Rachelle, regardless of the discipline - keep things as normal as possible which helps keep the horse relaxed. In Mikey's case, that mean lunch as usual and a nap, with your mare, normal lunch. As you well know, they are all different...whatever works on that horse is what you do, regardless of "common knowledge" etc.
I'd love to watch your horses race! When in high school I used to hang around the track as much as possible. My dad was friends with some of the owners and trainers. One was Russ Valle Keys (not sure of right spelling.) They used to have a harness raced for a horse he DrOve, Maria Keys. She was owned by one of my dad's friends. Biggest thrill of my young life was driving her around Del Mar Track! Like flying! I LOVE harness racing! I think it is much more unpredictable than running. Do you ever race out west?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 1:43 am:
Congratulations Rachelle, There's nothing like an opinionated mare if you want to get things done! I like her just from your descriptions...looking forward to pics.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 3:12 am:
Hello everyone,
This morning I did a little research trying to find a site that carried race replays for free. I found www.youbet.com. I normally watch the replays on NJbets because New Jersey restricts its residents from betting on other states websites.
I was able to open a restricted account( no betting) on Youbet. This gave me access to everything but the betting, which was fine for me.
You will need to open an account, only takes a few minutes. Its free unless you want to fund it to be able to wager on the races. It will give you a message if your state does not allow wagering and there are some other states that do this. Once you are logged in, click on the view screen and select one of the options ( Horse, track, or date) Horses name: Wicked Persuasion ( you will get all her races, even the bad ones) Date ( For this past race, it was 8/24/2009 race 9)(Track was Monticello). Her post position was #7.
I am going to go back to the barn and tell her she has a fan club. And another thing, I call her my own Rachel Alexandra because quite a few of the horses in this race were boys.
Enjoy the races!
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 4:19 am:
Thanks Rachelle for the Youbet link. It took a lot of dinking around on my end to get things to work, but once I got it, it was pretty exciting to watch a race so early in the morning.
Especially with a fellow HA members horse! She really came on at the end.
Let us know when she races again, aye? Maybe I'll bet on her. LOL!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 5:13 am:
Hi Rachelle,
I wanted to sign up, but there is no way I am typing my social security number on any website.
So - can't see the race, unfortunately.
Lilo
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 6:57 am:
Great race, Rachelle!
Hey Lilo, you can still see the race without entering any information. The Monticello webpage offers race replays on their results page.
Go to www.monticelloraceway.com
Then to the "Racing" link in the menu bar across the top. A DrOp down box will open and you should select "Results."
In the middle of the Results page there is a box that says "Click Here to see Official Video Racing Results."
Once you click that box you can select the date and race you want to view.
Now, with all that said I have to add that I'd prefer you use the Youbet.com site since it might lead to future wagering there which will be good for my job!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 7:00 am:
Ohhh...I LOVE fillies that beat the boys! Thanks for the links Rachelle and Sara. I'll be going there sometime today.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 10:42 am:
Sara M,
I looked all over the Monticello website this morning before I posted the Youbet link. Thanks for finding it. I'm glad everyone liked the race. Even I keep watching it over and over again.
Sara M, What is your job?
Rachelle
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 12:28 pm:
Fantastic news!
Congratulations, Rachelle.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 - 3:52 pm:
No problem, Rachelle, I was happy to do it.
I'm a manager for a Tote company. Our parent company is Youbet.com.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 5:46 am:
Hi all,
I just wanted to mention that I got an email from youbet.com, asking why I did not complete the sign-up. So I told them that I only wanted to watch a video of a race, and that I did not give out my social security number on any website as a matter of principle. I did not get a response to that.
Lilo
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, Aug 28, 2009 - 7:46 am:
Well, I really don't want to get off topic of Rachelle's and Wicked Persuasion's accomplishment but I would like to add a couple things about the Youbet website since Lilo shared her experience. The website is a very secure site. The page on which personal information is entered is also secure (you can see the https in the address and the lock at the bottom of the page) and they request a social security number for identity verification since it is a gambling website. You wouldn't want someone to get a hold of your credit card and start gambling with it. With the SS# they can verify that the CC holder is the true owner. Unless your entire identity has been stolen and then you're up a creek anyway...but we won't go there! It IS illegal for them to accept waging from certain states including Colorado, Kansas, New Jersey and several others so they verify that, as well.
It's completely your choice as to whether you join or not and, honestly, if you don't plan to gamble there's really no point. The e-mail that gets sent out if you stop partway through the registration process is an automated e-mail sent in the hopes that they can gather information. With the more information they have the better and more user friendly they can make the site.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 - 5:41 am:
Sara - thanks for the information. I thought it might be legit, and I understand it better now, but since I don't plan to gamble, I think I made the right decision for myself.
Lilo
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 1:03 pm:
Update 8/31/2009
We have been having a problem with one of Hanna's (Wicked Persuasions nickname)back shoes. The one that came off during the race and that we have now attempted to reglue twice. Not sure why that is the only one that seems to come off.
Anyway, I modified the Perfect Hoofwear cuff leaving the back of the hoof open with the cuff removed from the last nailhole on both sides and then reglued it using Adhere. We also filled in the gap created between her hoof and the shoe caused when I removed the back part of the Hoofwear, this gives her a level surface to land on. It has so far stayed on through 5 miles of jogging with her bucking and kicking on the track and I will check later on tonight if it stayed on in the field.It felt like it was on pretty solid, so I am not anticipated any problems, but that's what I thought yesterday before it came off for the second day in a row.
If it does stay on she's going to train tomorrow and that will be the test of whether or not I do this to all 4 feet (Adhere rather than Equilox, the glue supplied with the Hoofwear) the next time I redo the Hoofwear and shoes.
I am also working on a way to put the hoofwear on without the glue, slide it off the foot, modify it like I did with this back foot, glue it back on and nail the shoes to the Hoofwear after the Hoofwear has been modified.
The reason I want to do this is so I can minimize the bacterial issues and pack her feet when I need to.
I have also ordered a set of Renegade Glue-ons that I am going to attempt to modify to enable me to put shoes on them. I'll keep you updated with the results of the experiments.
My problem with boots in the past has been their weight. The Hoofwear solves the weight problem, but I want to be able to reuse what I buy, so it is not so cost prohibitive. I also want to be able to take these off between races.
Rachelle
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Member:
gramsey1
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 4:36 pm:
Perhaps you have seen the Video on Yasha Shoes.
I contacted the guy in New Jersey. They didn't have any small enough for our TB. He said they are most often used on Trotters.
They make a glue on. It must be some really special glue as the shoes are designed to flex.
I saw information on Tenderhoof Solutions.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 30, 2009 - 5:47 pm:
Guy,
I am familiar with Yasha shoes. It is actually the special pad that makes "any" shoe a Yasha shoe and it became popular when Big Brown raced in them a few years back. You can send them a pair of your shoes fitted to your horse and they will apply the pad and return them to you. Ian Mckinley makes regular stops on the farm I am at.
I do not like their glue on shoe, because it utilizes large copper riveted clips at the quarter to keep them on.
The flexible shoe you are talking about is called a Racer shoe and it is very flexible, but its hard to work with and your horses foot has to be very close to a size the Racer company makes. I do believe it is a specialized glue because it needs to bond with the pad on the shoe and the foot and be flexible at the same time, most glues harden and are not flexible once they are set.
I like the concept of the Yasha pad because it puts a soft flexible cushion under the heel and a harder pad on the rest of the foot where it doesn't need to be cushioned as much. Also these pads do not seem to degrade and they retain their shape for a longer time. Unfortunately, Tenderhoof Solutions does not sell the pad by itself, because of the process that applies it to the shoe. You need to buy it with the shoes.
Rachelle
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Monday, Aug 31, 2009 - 6:42 am:
I use the shoe with pad from them on my gelding.. it has worked wonders for him.. i order them every other shoeing .. .. great folks to work with ..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 - 6:42 pm:
This thread was a good read, and I shall continue following it. Rachelle, it sounds like you are onto something. Wicked Persuasion isn't short on personality is she? Complements to you for doing all you can to conserve her physical integrity. She races like she's more than worth the trouble. A horse like her must have to be mentally and physically tough, I'll bet a little "wicked" in her helps!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 9, 2009 - 8:02 am:
Update 09/09/2009
Well, we ran into a little bad racing luck at Monticello yesterday. The mare had the 8 hole, got away last and came charging home again ( 10 lengths back at the top of the stretch and got beat 3 lengths with the fastest last quarter of anyone else in the race, including the winner. So, all and all while I am disappointed that she did not earn a check( Standardbreds get money for finishing 1st through 5th). She did race pretty good.
As far as her shoes go. She is now wearing Hoofwear (only a few wraps, about 1/3 a roll)and aluminum shoes, glued onto the Hoofwear with Vettec Adhere in front (no nails), and I will be doing the same thing with her in the back.
I've decided that I do not like the cut down Hoofwear behind as it does not support the heels and or frog, where the entire hoof wrapped in Hoofwear does. But I do not need the entire roll, just a few wraps to to it.
This is also much more cost effective if we only need to use 2 rolls instead of 4 ( or eventually only one roll instead of 4). There is a sticky adhesive on the Hoofwear that makes it stick to itself and we are going to experiment to see if we either use rerolled pre-cut strips placed in plastic bags or can unroll just the part we need for each foot and save the remainder in a plastic bag for the other feet.
She is going back in the box for next Monday( Standardbreds race every week if they can) and if she gets in will most likely not train, since it will be only 6 days between races.
I'll update with the shoeing changes and race results next week. If anyone wants to watch her. She was in race 11, post 8 at Monticello, 09/08/2009.
Rachelle
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 7:57 am:
Rachelle I got to give you credit for being one determined lady!
sounds like you are getting the shoeing tweaked right and a little less expensive.
Good Luck at your next race!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 10, 2009 - 11:51 am:
ditto what DianeE said!
Continued success!
Leslie645
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 22, 2009 - 10:17 pm:
Sorry folks that I haven't updated this in a while but here goes.
Hanna had the 8 hole yet again last Monday, with a new driver, she wound up 7th. She and the driver did not get along. She is back home at Freehold tommorrow with the 3 hole. This is the first time she has drawn inside in almost 4 months. She is also down in class.
As far as the shoeing situation goes. She is still in Hoofwear with glue-on shoes ( Adhere) and 4 baby nails in each hoof. We are using 2 rolls of Hoofwear for 4 feet and get 5 wraps per foot out of each roll. We are using the glue that comes with the kit( Equilox). This seems to be working better as it form fits the hoof much better than glueing the Hoofwear on with Adhere (too much bulk under the Hoofwear).
Once everything has cured, I cut the back of the hoofwear between the bulbs to avoid any bacterial issues. This keeps the hoof level without having to add extra glue. We are at 2 1/2 weeks and counting and the shoes seem to be fairly tight. We are not experiencing any tripping or stumbling.
As promised here is her win picture from a couple of weeks ago.
Notice where the driver has the whip.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 22, 2009 - 11:50 pm:
Great photo! I take it the driver had to beat on her a lot?
Interesting (to me) that the bike wheels have changed to match current racing bicycle wheels - very similar.
She looks really good, Rachelle.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 6:11 am:
Sara,
And believe it or not, he could not pull her up after the race! And I warned him he would have a problem as part of my driving instructions. She actually went almost all the way around again before he could pull her up and turn her back toward us waiting for her in the paddock.
In general, I do not train with a whip either. I am not whip adverse though and I will carry one with a baby, but my horses usually respond to a slight shake of the lines, a cluck and a kiss and when they do what I ask they get verbal praise ( which everyone else on the farm thinks is nuts). You can hear me shouting across the racetrack.
That's another difference between standardbreds and thoroughbreds and quarter horses. We train to make the last quarter the fastest.
Rachelle
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 7:14 am:
That is a great photo Hope you have continued success with her shoeing and racing, she's a beautiful girl.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 12:11 pm:
Yea, she is coool! love it and hearing her story. Thanks for sharing Rach.
L
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 7:13 pm:
* Race update*
Well, we got a little bit of money, today. And all things considered she raced pretty well.
However, if you listen to my husband she didn't( he probably bet her).
Today was one of those races, where a horse that didn't figure to be anywhere off her past performance lines, ends up putting together a race in a very fast time for this particular class.
My poor mare paced her heart out and ended up going 5 seconds faster then she did in her last race. I'll call it a speed tightening race.
The good news is her shoes stayed on, she went fast and she got a check, while disappointed she did not get a bigger part. I thought she did ok since she has not seen that fast a race pace in a very long time.
Oh well back in next week, hopefully with a bunch that will go a bit slower.
The two other Horse and gelding divisions went 2-3 seconds slower than the filly and mare race. Go figure.
Rachelle
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 8:22 pm:
Wow! She shaved off five seconds??!! That is a lot! Congratulations on getting some winnings.
Erika
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 23, 2009 - 8:48 pm:
Poor girl, I bet she was disappointed too! I think they know they are competing and want to win. Actually, a terrific performance from her; she was obviously trying her heart out. What a good girl!
Good news about the shoes. Every little thing helps! And, shoes aren't that "little!"
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 3:33 pm:
Update
Hanna is due for a new set of shoes, she has actually kept these on now for 3 1/2 weeks and could probably race with them. The shoes are not showing the same amount of wear that they would normally show, she actually has some swedge left. This is unusual because she has been jogging and training mostly on the stone dust track (because rain has kept the sand/dirt track unusable) that normally wears her shoes down in very little time. However, I see where some of the Hoofwear is starting to fray and come loose from the sides, so I think I'll play is safe and put a new set on her.
She is also not tripping or stumbling or hitting her knees. I took her knee boots off for the last race and put elasticon on to see if there were any hit marks (there were none) and I think she is much more comfortable without the knee boots, maybe thats why she paced as fast as she did last start.
She will most likely be in to race on Saturday against the boys, so we shall see how it goes.
Rachelle
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 3:54 pm:
oooh,maybe we should place a bet on her!! heheeh
$2 bucks to win on Rach's horned one!
atleast, I believe you once said she was a horned one.(?)
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 10:02 pm:
Good news Rachelle, I hope Wicked kicks the boys A$$
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 29, 2009 - 11:38 pm:
Rachelle, what does your competition think about this. Have the noticed? I imagine that you might have some imitators soon. Good news about the knee boots. I hope that she can sustain that.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009 - 7:30 am:
Susie,
I have had several conversations with other trainers about what I am doing and why, maybe not my actual competition, but some pretty big trainers. For the most part they think its an interesting concept, but do not understand the most important part ( at least for me) is the underlying trim. Many of them have been using the same farriers for years and do not wish to change and their farriers do not wish to change either. So, while they don't think I'm nuts, their priorities are a bit different then mine.
As far as the kneeboots go, this mare has worn them at various times during her career, I've never liked kneeboots on any horse because I think it changes their gait. Some horses do need them, but she doesn't as a matter of course.
When she developed the lump behind her knee, I thought she was hitting her knee and put them on to protect her, but I was not totally convinced that they made any difference at all. So, I took them off and just put adhesive tape on her and that seems to work just fine. The tape is much thinner than the boot and form fits her knees, so there is no excess for the opposite foot to hit. In addition, because of the way the shoe is on the foot, if she does hit she's hitting with the hoofwear and not the shoe.
Rachelle
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009 - 9:43 am:
Hi Rachelle, I imagine that there are trade magazines for Standardbred racing. I wonder if one might want to publish presented as a case study? Your writing is clear and engaging, and it sounds as if your approach would be fresh reading. Just a thought, I know you probably have plenty of time for that, and not enough to do....not!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 30, 2009 - 8:56 pm:
Susie,
Its funny you say that because Hoofbeats (Standardbred trade magazine) has been looking for writers and I considered taking my first post here and rewriting it for them. I am not sure I've never published anything in my entire life. Even though I have a lot of stories to tell:-)
Here is tonights update.
No Bacterial issues under any of the Hoofwear.
Her feet are in excellent shape
All the nails were in the Hoofwear and she had no nail holes in her feet
I took 20 pictures and accidentally deleted them all when I tried to download them ( Me and pictures are having a love/hate relationship)
She was able to train right after she had her shoes on.
Having no nails means, I don't have to worry that the nails are going to shift the first time she trains on them before they get seated. Normally, I'd jog her a few days before training.
Materials used:
2 rolls Hoofwear =4 feet= $30-supplied by trimmer
2 pr shoes=supplied by me=$12
16 nails- 4 per hoof into Hoofwear not hoof=$3.00
1/2 cartridge of Adhere-Supplied by me $15
HPT Barefoot Trim=$60
Trimmer Labor $30 to put the shoes on
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Total cost= $150.00 not too bad considering my other blacksmith charges $140.00 for 1 pair of Glue-ons and I am always worried that they will fall off.
She is in to go on Saturday at Freehold has the 5 post, in the 11th race against the boys.
Rachelle
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 7, 2009 - 9:56 pm:
Rachelle I thought of you when I saw these new shoes, they look pretty neat and NO nails...pretty cool.
https://www.quixshoe.com/home.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqTM34uwd8
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 1:42 pm:
Diane,
Thanks for the link. I forwarded on to my equine podiatrist to let him see it.
I looked over the website, seems these folks are located in Dubai and as yet I don't think they have an American presence.
Also, I think I would have the same problem with these shoes as I had with using the straight Adhere, not enough wear on a stone dust track.
I think the idea of a mold is great, so I'll see what my guy has to say. Might be a solution for my baby though.
Thanks again
Rachelle
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 2:36 pm:
A mold of the hoof? I think that's a terrific idea. Do any vets or farriers do that? I know from dentistry, you can see alignment a lot easier in a cast from a mold than when looking at the actual teeth. I would think a cast of the foot couple with x-rays would be the ultimate diagnostic tool.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 8, 2009 - 5:13 pm:
I think once they play around with this type of thing they will come up with a bunch of applications. I would try these on Hank, I really like the idea, but I think it is in it's infancy. A GREAT idea tho!
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 - 7:01 pm:
Update
Hanna raced Monday October 12 and finished 4th, she raced really good as she came from last around the last turn and closed into a fast last quarter.
She is still wearing her Hoofwear combination and it seems to be working well.
She is back in to go on Thursday with the rail #1 post position). I normally do not race back this quick, but I may be going back to work next week, so I won't be able to race during the week.
The driver knew beforehand she was back in so, she did not get abused with a rough trip. She did not want to pull up after the race, so I know she is getting sharp.
Anyway, we take it one race at a time.
If anyone wants to watch the race, she was at Freehold, 3rd race, #3, October 12.
On Thursday, October 15, she has the rail in the 5th race.
Rachelle
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 10:14 am:
Since this discussion is getting long, I am going to continue with my updates in a part II.
Rachelle
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