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Discussion on Horse lame after trim
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 - 9:01 pm:
Hello,
I need some advice: I recently moved my 20-yr old TWH to a new barn and he was trimmed for the first time by a new farrier in my absence- the barn manager holds the horses. Anyway, my Walker has been trimmed and shod by a few farriers over the years and he has never been ouchy or sore after a trim or shoeing...until yesterday. He was trimmed VERY short in the back and his front lite shod shoes were reset. He is very lame in the back and constantly resting his R hind. It pains me to see him like this. I should have been there. His frog looks like it was trimmed pretty good too. I have new farrier coming out to evaluate him but not until next week. Obviously I cannot ride him- what do I do to help him? Bute? Is there likely to be permanent damage from a bad trim or will it likely just grown out? How long can I expect him to be lame like this?? He was doing so well and we were working on his gaiting and looking forward to fall trail rides  I am very upset with this farrier and will definitely never use him again.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 - 9:27 pm:
Stephanie, I think most of us have had that happen at one time or another.
What worked best for me is bute, soft ground, and time. Wrapping or boots can help too if you want to go the extra mile .
He should be ok once he starts growing his hoof back, FME about 2-3 weeks sometimes sooner. I think the soft ground or bedding is important to keep them from bruising their soles and maybe wrapping for turnout if he is really short. The bute to help with inflammation.
Hope he feels better soon.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 24, 2009 - 9:29 pm:
If my horse, I certainly would give Bute a couple of times daily for a few days to make him more comfortable.
When a horse begins favoring a foot and not moving around I get very worried about the possibility of laminitis in the opposite or diagonal foot.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 25, 2009 - 6:49 am:
Hello Stephanie,
With proper care this will grow out and there will be no permanent damage. But it is hard to know how long as we don't know how short. For more on this and our recommended treatment see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Problems Following Shoeing or Trimming.
DrO
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Sep 25, 2009 - 11:56 am:
What a bummer Stephanie. I had a similar experience last fall and just wanted to pound the person who did the trim. Horse was so sore food and water had to be carried to him for days. In about a month he was moving around more comfortably, it was two months before he could trot or canter again.
Ditto what Diane says, and easy boots or something similar during turnout would probably be very much appreciated by the horse!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Sep 25, 2009 - 2:20 pm:
Too bad...you can try taping hard styrofoam to his feet with duct tape.
I bought some Hoofwraps that come with pads that make that job very easy. You can google them to find. Not as pricey as most boots. Recommended by Sara W's farrier. I like them a lot!
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Friday, Sep 25, 2009 - 3:07 pm:
Thanks ladies, and Dr. O...I did read the articles. I called my vet and to ease my mind am having him checked out to be on the safe side. I will have to order easy boots or other similar type of boot if the vet thinks that is in order. He has a hard time hobbling to his water as it is on a hard surface. Yes I am SO MAD at this guy that I could scream (ok I have done that...). Here is is beautiful fall, I have been working with a TWH trainer to get Rambo gaiting well and he was doing so well until this. Grrrr....
Well- I will post more after the vet. I wish I could offer more advise, but I am still kind of a newbie to horses and always seem to have more questions than answers, so thanks to all of you out there! 
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Sep 25, 2009 - 3:26 pm:
2nd the hoof wraps they are great for this type of situation, I always have a pair on hand.
I have tried the styrofoam before and that didn't seem to work well for a short trim, I think maybe it puts too much pressure on the sole. What has worked, when I had nothing else around was getting one of those garden kneeling pads from wally world and cutting them to the hoof form and taping them on. Works very well until something else can be done OR the horse get better.
Something like this and they are readily available about anywhere
https://life-ease-inc.amazonwebstore.com/Fiskars-Garden-Kneeling-Pad-Standard-Siz e/M/B000RFQP48.htm?traffic_src=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=froogle
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 26, 2009 - 11:34 am:
Maybe Soft Ride comfort boots?
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New Member:
kimaz
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 26, 2009 - 2:59 pm:
Hi Stephanie,
I am so sorry to hear about your horse. I am in the same boat too.
My 4YO paint has had a history of softer soles, and must stay shod to keep him off of the ground.
He recently had surgery and was stall bound for 2 weeks, and I had his shoes pulled before the surgery.
The day he was able to go play and get some excersise we had a freak accident and he was cut in his shoulder to the bone.
He was due for his monthly trim and to get his shoes back on, and start training Sept.1st.
So he went a little long at 7 weeks, and I had a local "natural trim farrier" which I am not opposed to if it is done right, and works for the horse, come do a a trim when he could lift he leg comfortably.
Well, my mistake not having my personal very good reputable farrier out(Noah is difficult to handle for farrier, this was going to be addressed with his Trainer)to do his trim while healing.
He dug out into his soles too deeply on right side, and uneven on all four, and long in back. Needless to say he went lame very quickly and was very sore.
There was bruising from the length as well.
I consulted my vet and he said two grams of Bute for two days, then for next two days 1 gram 2x a day, soft bedding, check digital pulse, keep him out of sun/heat(I am in AZ.) to prevent heat founder, and get his shoes on ASAP. So he is back on stall rest.
Thankfully my farrier was so gracious to come out very next morning and shoe him. My poor horse, who already had farrier issues, now had to be shoed with pain and is supposed to start Training in Oct. that was already delayed from Sept.
My farrier said his soles should improve within a week and a half, the uneveness was fixed, and probably caused the bruising. He was walking better almost immediately, but I haven't had him out yet.
My vet is coming Monday to recheck on his progress.
I felt alot better after working with my vet, and farrier and have learned a valuable, though frustrating lesson. I am so sorry my horse had to go through it all.
I really appreciate all of the suggestions too from everyone with regards to the boots/wraps as I will keep them on hand from now on, and to Dr. O for his expertise.
I hope your horse gets better soon, and keep us posted on his progress.
Best, Kimberly
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 4:49 pm:
Kimberly,
How is your horse doing?? I hope he is okay.
Mine is doing okay as far as I know...we did bute for about 3-4 days and I put some EZ boots on him. He seemed comfortable. I took the boots off after a few days and he is weight bearing on both hind hooves. The farrier is coming out today. he has to walk over gravel to get to the arena area so the real test will be how comfortable he is doing that.
This all occurred a new facility I just moved my horse to all with the idea of saving $$ on board so I can invest in a second riding horse. (My current mount is 20). I used the barn manager's "cheap" farrier and like most things in life, you get what you pay for. Ugh...
My horse is healthy and happy and getting plenty of food, and my friend boards there, but I am not crazy about this place at all. It's older and a little run down and I am having "nice barn withdrawal" at the present time...sigh. Anyway, it will work for now and when my truck is paid off, I am moving both of my horses!!! I was upset that the farrier made my horse lame and the barn manager was so cocky and aloof he really PO'd me!!! He acted like it was common for a horse to be lame after a trim. I may have only had my hore for 4 yrs but he has been trimmed and shod by several others and in his entire life, never has been lame after a trim. I hate people that act like it's no big deal...
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 4:50 pm:
OOOPSS! I meant to say i have had my HORSE for 4 yrs not my hore...
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 5:44 pm:
Stephanie, I'm glad to hear your horse is doing a little better. One of the things that ticks me off terribly is when people insist it's normal for a horse to be lame after a trim. To me that just shows a lack of education, experience and understanding. Yes some horses have a tendency to move shorter after a trim or being reshod, but in my world a farrier who lames a horse has done something wrong.
I can say that after 20 years of watching hundreds of horses of all different shapes and sizes get their feet done, I have only just recently seen my first come up lame after a trim, and it was a total butcher job done by someone who was trying to 'fix' an older horse with poor confirmation.
If there was one thing I could change about the natural hoof trimming movement it would be the idea that it's OK to lame a horse. The other would be that any yahoo with a rasp and a hoof knife who has read a couple websites now feels it's ok to call themselves a pro and hang out their shingle. But I digress....
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 - 9:40 pm:
NOT ONCE have any of my horses been lame or sore after a trim with my current, good farrier who I have had for 2 - 3 years.
In fact, they are always improved in their way of going after a trim.
To imply that it is in any way normal for a horse to be sore after a regular trim is way off base in my opinion.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 6:55 am:
Shannon,
I am not sure where you got the idea that the'natural hoof trimming movement' thinks its ok to lame or sore up a horse. I think that's a little (lot) off base, it is not the premise that natural hoofcare is based upon.
What I have seen happen ( and not with my horses)is several things.
1. People wait too long in between trims and want to get the most bang for their buck because they know it is going to be another 6-8 weeks before the trimmer will be out again. This changes what the horse has been used to and it takes a few days for them to readjust to the new trim.
2. Being a bit too aggressive with the good intentions of helping the horse. It may only be 1 swipe of a rasp that causes the problem. This did happen to me, but not with the professionally trained equine professional I use now. It happened in the very beginning of my barefoot journey with a farrier that had watched a video on Natural barefoot trimming that I gave him. He did three out of four hooves perfectly as I watched. By the fourth foot I felt a bit more comfortable and took my eyes off of him. The next thing you know I see blood on the floor and my horse three legged lame. It was one extra swipe of the rasp that did it with a guy unaccustomed to doing a natural trim. It took a few days but the mare was ok.
I blame myself for letting this happen and I learned my lesson. I use only a trained ( and educated) equine podiatrist DAEP on my horses, I pay attention to what is going on and I have never had a problem since.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 8:04 am:
I think if a farrier sores a horse after trimming, that farrier should not be paid. Maybe if everyone responded that way these guys and gals would make sure they kept their skills up to date.
I have found 2 extremes in my area: Those that only trim, and have it for their sole source of income.
Those that trim on the side, and are usually the ones that don't show up.
I have yet to find in either group a trimmer who is trained in the method I am interested in; so my horses are trimmed by me.
Yes, I made them sore a few times, but never from trimming too short, rather from leaving bars, or walls higher than they should be. Now that I see how NOT to do that, my horses move off very freely after my trims and tweaks.
Point I am making, if a self taught trimmer has horses galloping off feeling GREAT, there is no excuse for a PROFESSIONAL who is charging you money, to sore a horse!
BTW, I think if a horse if moving off shorter, that should not happen either.
Just my 2 cents worth!
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 9:35 am:
Stephanie, I am sorry for your troubles, and hope that your horse is getting better now.
HB's trimming saga:
First, farrier Tom trimmed his feet with passable results. HB stepped carefully for a few days, but overall, it was OK. He and my horse were wary of each other, but a lot of farriers cannot get near him.
Next, barefoot trimmer (BFT) Dave trimmed his feet. HB's gait improved, and he wasn't tender footed ever. Bonus: Horse and BFT Dave can get along, and improves each visit.
Next, BFT Dave is injured. Yikes! BFT Bill does his feet. Bill trims him easily in the field without even haltering him! Unfortunately now HB's gait has problems and he's "light on his feet" because they are tender.
Finally, BFT Dave is back in action. Immediate improvement in HB's gait, but it takes several trims to correct the problems that started with BFT Bill.
Conclusion: Good BFT's do not grow on trees, and if you find one, treat him or her like royalty! I need to use my "rider's rasp" regularly so that I can take over his "adjustments" if necessary. Though I am no spring chicken, I can do a little every day or so, a millimeter here, a millimeter there, and if Dave cannot come, I can maintain his feet until he can.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 11:13 am:
Susie I think doing a millimeter here and there is ideal! I try to trim my horses every week, two weeks at the most to keep them in ideal shape all the time. You are right, good BFTs (or good farriers) do not grow on trees; the farrier I use when my horses are shod is treated like royalty =)
Angie, yes moving shorter usually means something was done wrong, but I have met a couple horses that tend to be a tiny bit sore on hard ground after even a very conservative trim on a good schedule. Not many but I think they are out there.
Rachelle, I think overall the goals of the barefoot movement are right on, but I have met 3 barefoot trimmers in the last couple years (working on friends' horses) that have said it's OK, even necessary, for horses to be sore to the point of lameness after a trim. I've never met a farrier/shoer that said it was OK for a horse they shod or trimmed to walk off lame.
I usually keep my own horses barefoot unless circumstances warrant shoes (heavy use on hard/abrasive ground) and I think it's ideal whenever possible. I guess I just miss the days when you could count on the fact that the person working under your horse at least went through some formal training and an apprenticeship before calling themselves a pro. Maybe I've just had a rash of bad experiences, but IMO there are too many people out there right now propagating misinformation. It's easy for the experienced horse person to sort through the muck, but I fear for the newbies who are being told something that should never happen is normal.
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
Shannon, I agree...I am still kind of a newbie in that every thing that happens to my horse that I have not experienced before is new to me. Fortunately, I do my research and I know my horse and when something is not right...
The new farrier came last night. I really like him- Rambo's back hooves were only 2.5 inches!!! That is how short he is. The farrier said it was obscene. Rambo was weight bearing in the pasture, but still very reluctant to move and obviously sore on the concrete. Farrier put hind shoes on Rambo but could only use 3 nails and suggested I put bell boots on him which I did. I hope he holds the shoes. Ram walked very well over the gravel with the shoes on. Farrier hopes he can take the shoes off in 6 weeks when he returns. I usually keep him barefoot in winter and have only ever put front shoes on him April- Oct, until now.
How does a barefoot trimmer differ from a regular farrier trim?? I have had Rambo trimmed and shod on a regular schedule (every 6-8 wks) since I have had him which is why I am so disgusted with this butcher job.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 12:56 pm:
How does a barefoot trimmer differ from a regular farrier trim -- that is a tough question to answer as there is no standard BFT, and many farriers trim and shoe differently too.
A short answer is farriers are generally certified by a national organization (e.g. the AFA) and trained to shoe as well as trim. As far as I know there is no widely accepted standard of certification for BFTs, and they only trim and don't shoe.
A basic philosophic difference is that the farriers I know say shoeing is not inherently harmful, necessary in some cases and can be therapeutic. The BFTs I know say no horse should ever wear shoes, and shoeing is inherently damaging.
Those are the only two things that I think apply fairly widely. Some would say farriers trim differently, leveling the hoof wall with the ground all the way around as if to prepare for shoeing whether the horse will be shod or not. My farrier however does a 4 point trim on barefoot horses. So I think it really depends...
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 1:02 pm:
Stephanie,
I only have one thing to say, where in the 2.5 in foot of your horse did your farrier find room to put the nails (UGH). I really didn't want to respond to this but I had too.
The difference between a regular trim and a barefoot trim is in how the hoof is finished.
A regular trim like right before you get ready to put shoes on, makes the outside wall flat so that the shoe fits on the foot correctly. It requires nippers, rasping and in most cases paring out of the sole to get the surface level enough for the shoe. After the shoes are on, the outside wall is rasped to 1) get rid of the sharp part of the nails and to 2)Horse the shoe ( making the horses hoof pretty ( not) by rasping the hoof to make it match the shoe.
Now, technically, the horses foot should be level and balanced before the shoe goes on, but a lot of times this is not the case and the horse has to live with whatever problems he has until the next set of shoes 6-8 weeks later.
A natural barefoot trim levels and balances the hoof, it requires a critical look at all the structures of the hoof and adjustments are made ( or should be made on a much more frequent basis, tweaking as we say). The walls are beveled, the toes are backed up, the bars and frog are addressed and the sole is hardly ever touched. Horses move better because their breakover is better because of the bevel and the backed up toe.
There are a lot of really good sites about barefoot trimming and some good videos on you tube.
I know you have had your horse in shoes without a problem, so its natural for you to think that what your farrier did was right, but I think had you gone to a boot situation first and given your horses foot a chance to grow out on its own, your farrier would have had a half decent foot to nail into. As it is, even though your horse may be more comfortable, you might be creating a bigger problem down the road.
I wish you a lot of luck with your horse and hope he comes out of this with no further problems.
Rachelle
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 1:23 pm:
Shannon,
Please go to www.equinepodiatry.net and take a look at the website, read the articles and look and see how much training some trimmers have.
My equine podiatrist is skilled in not only trimming a barefoot horse, but in rehabbing all horses whose farriers have screwed them up. He understands that different horses have different needs and he deals with them appropriately and he absolutely cares about the well being of my horses.
Oh yes, and my horses wear shoes because they are dealing with an abrasive racetrack. However, they do not have nails in their feet. They wear Perfect Hoofwear and the shoes are glued to the hoofwear. We use 4 nails in each hoof, but the nails are in the Hoofwear and not the hoof. My barefoot trim is maintained and my horses feet are pristine (no nailholes) when they come out of the hoofwear at each shoeing.
If your interested, do a search on 'Out of defeat comes victory-solution for a barefoot racehorse'. This chronicles what I have been through over the last three years to come up with a solution that works really well for me and my very educated trimmer has been with me all the way.
Rachelle
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 1:31 pm:
Rachelle, this is a case in point as to the differences in who is doing the trimming/shoeing:
Most of the barefoot trimmers I know take the bars all the way off and carve out the sole drastically. Which is why none of them will ever touch my horses! And the farriers I have worked with are rabid about balancing the foot and tend to set the shoe under the hoof to allow for better breakover, and when they aren't shoeing they back up the toe and bevel the hoof.
The details of the trim or shoeing can vary so widely I think it's hard to make generalizations.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 1:37 pm:
We just cross posted Rachelle. I have actually been following that thread with great interest, I think what you have done with your mare is wonderful and gives the best of both worlds.
I think you are lucky to have found such a great hoof care practitioner. I think our experiences with different people calling themselves trimmers and farriers have just been very different. Unfortunately I've had some bad experiences that have soured me a bit. Hopefully I can temper that and keep it from clouding my posts too much
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 2:14 pm:
Shannon,
I don't want to hijack Stephanies thread, but I'm curious. Were the trimmers you had bad experiences with ex farriers that couldn't make a go of it shoeing horses and thought they could make easy money just trimming? Those are the ones you have to be careful of because they think they know what they are doing, but in actuality they don't have a clue.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 2:15 pm:
I am glad Rachelle gave such a good description on the trimming.
One of my pet peeves is anyone can take a course at where is it? OK? And they are qualified to trim & shoe. If memory serves me right, it is not a very long course.
Anyone know how long the course is?
On the other hand, I think some of the barefoot courses are 2 year programs. I thought Strasser certification took that long? I may be wrong, I can find out though.
The name Strasser brings to my mind my 2nd pet peave; people hear that name and you get "Oh, never go with that method, too severe, butchers horses, etc."
Of course the truth is anyone claiming to be trained in any method can do a lot of damage!
And to make matters worse, even those that agree on most things regarding BFT, there is still disagreement amongst them. It does seem to me though that the BFT are more open to hearing each others opinions and thoughts on hoof form and function. And I think most agree on foot protection...NOT Nailed on SHOES...for as little of time as possible.
Maybe some day we will have guildelines that ALL trimmers must follow. I think the 2 sides are getting closer to meeting in the middle.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 2:53 pm:
I think is great that we have people on here who are very enthused about the bare foot horse or no nails. I do believe that as Angie stated there is a middle ground there that has to be implemented sometimes.
If everyone could leave their horses barefoot I think they would. I know I would, I very rarely had a horse shod in the 30+ years of owning horses and if I did it was necessary for protection or rehab. They were trimmed by a regular old farrier and I never had lameness issues until moving over here to the clover patch and the laminitis started, and 1 bad farrier.
That said I have seen some Strasser trims in my day and some were butcher jobs and some were very nice. I guess it's all in the luck of the draw and what's available to you. In the sticks here there is not much choice in farriers, and absolutely no BFT there are 3 farriers which work around the area and I believe I am using the best one. I have to imagine it's the same around the country in less populated areas. We do what we can
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Member:
shogeboo
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 3:16 pm:
rtrotter,
It's fine- hijack away! I enjoy when the discussion take on a life of their own, and I always learn a lot, even if I don't have tons of good advice.
Not sure about the nails- I know Ram had grown out about a week. I really don't think this guy would have shod him if he didn't think it was okay. I got some good references on him and he truly seemed to have Rambo's best interest in mind. I did provide EZ boots for him but I think they were actually too small for him (though i am not sure as that was my first experience). One thing I can say about Rambo is that he is hearty- he comes through things pretty well...so I pray he will be just fine.
carry on, ladies!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 4:05 pm:
Rachelle, the trimmers I've had problems with were people whose heart was in the right place with regard to the horses' welfare or so it seemed, but had very little real experience and were basing what they were doing on bad information or misunderstanding or both. They were people who had never done any shoeing and didn't have much horse experience in general, had taken a seminar or two, did a little reading on the internet and thought 'I can make money at this trimming business'. (not hired by me but by friends and boarders)
Personally I think it takes years of guided daily experience and continuing education. I've trimmed a few horses for years, and many horses here and there along the way, and think I do a pretty good job. But I consider myself a rank amateur compared to the farriers I know.
The drama I had with one trimmer was described on another thread (I will have to look it up) but in short it was someone who insisted she could straighten out one of our boarder's 10 year old, crooked-legged, but relatively sound horse in a couple trims and proceeded to make the poor guy dead lame, and had convinced his owner who was totally new to horse ownership that this was standard practice. I get mad just thinking about it. I was left to clean up the mess, help the horse recover, educate the horse owner and fire the trimmer.
I don't think all barefoot trimmers are unqualified butchers like that one any more than I think all certified farriers do a good job. And certification, whatever it's in, doesn't mean you're good at what you do or even conscientious enough to care. But around here there seems to be a rash of weekend warriors charging good money for something they have no business doing. And as always it's the horses that suffer.
I think all of our goals are the same: do what's best for our horses' health and well being. I am a proponent of bare feet and natural horsekeeping in general, and I love the innovation I see happening in the world of horse care.
I guess it is up to us horse owners to watch what practitioners are doing and provide the oversight and look out for our horses.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 2, 2009 - 5:00 pm:
Shannon,
If there is one thing I have learned these past few years, its that you can not 'fix' conformation through a horses feet. The horses conformation is what it is.
However, what you can do is make sure the feet do not contribute to any problems the horse has and I have seen horses that 'appear' to have terrible conformation, actually turn out quite nice when their feet were properly balanced.
If you are reading Marie Anne Hendrie's thread, I think her horse is one of those horses that when his feet are finally balanced he will stand much better in front and not be so narrow chested. Because of the way he has been trimmed in the past, it makes him look knock kneed and narrow chested.
Another example is a horse standing underneath himself, because he is uncomfortable because his toes are too long. If the toes are never addressed the problem just gets worse and tends to look like a conformation problem but really isn't.
In your boarders case( and I remember reading that thread) She started with a sound horse that probably didn't need much help and had the trimmer read the horses foot properly, would have realized there wasn't a problem to 'fix'.
Most of the horses my trimmer deals with are horses that are having problems because of the way their feet have been taken care of for years.
He likes to work off of x-rays and takes a million pictures to show the changes over time. His philosophy is one of long-term soundness, do no harm and less is more. His biggest problem is after working to get a horses feet in really good shape with the horse sound, the owner switches to a trainer that thinks every horse needs shoes (mostly dressage horses) and out the window goes all the good work.
Rachelle
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 12:42 am:
Well the "natural" or "barefoot" trimmers I'm familiar with would NOT find it at all acceptable for a horse to be lame as a result of a trim. And in my very limited knowledge, only Strassur suggests trimming the sole. I'm blessed--at least for right now, he has a plate in his neck and is aging--with a top notch farrier who believes in barefoot but is a wizard with shoes as well. He also believes in continuing education, but I find his type the exception. My vet says it takes a certain amount of "gristle" to be a farrier and that he thinks that tends to limit their intellectual ability and open mindedness! Seems like a sweeping generality, but probably a grain of truth.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 5:41 pm:
"--with a top notch farrier who believes in barefoot but is a wizard with shoes as well. He also believes in continuing education"
OMGosh, Can we clone him?!
Leslie
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 6:53 pm:
Leslie, he's an excellent teacher and often gives clinics. Sadly, most of the attendees are people like us taking advantage of his gifts. The many local "farriers" who could benefit are noticeably absent. Sometimes he has farrier clinics and he says they are much harder to teach new methods because they have too much "muscle memory" and soon revert to their old ways. He has a big open "barn/shop" and when he has too many clients, he'll get three or four farriers in their working under his guidance. It would certainly behoove these guys to learn from him--he charges way more than the traditional guys and has to turn clients away!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 10:57 am:
As many of you know, I have a wonderful "hoof guru" in my life. Her name is Joni Libert, from Alaska, and she was Strasser Certified in 1999. She is listed if your look for Stasser Certified Trimmers.
I asked her about the program to become certified and how long it took, what it involved.
I will cut and past my email to her, in part, and her answers. Her answers are in red, but I don't know if it will show up red.
1) How long does it take to become Strasser Certified?
2-years now
2) What does it involve?
How many hours of class room?
Lots of hours of personal study with hands on practicals. Tests inbetween. Many, many hours
Hands on?
Apprenticeship? They do apprentice now, but I'm not sure how they work that.
3) Does Strasser trim the sole?
Every body trims sole Angie..but I know what you mean NO she does not advocate "carving" into sole If you need me to elaborate I will but the bottom line is you never trim a horse and take away good healthy tissue leaving it sore..never, never, never..
I am asking because there is a discussion on HA....people are so frustrated because so called barefoot trimmers just sore their poor horses! And as you know, anyone can do the "Strasser trim" and then they butcher the horses hoofs, and give Strasser a bad name.
Very few trimmers really understand the "Strasser Trim" it's very mis-understood..and the biggest offenders in my opinion are the danged STrasser trimmers who try and explain online..that is why I stay away from it..it's not a 'beginner' trim.
It's based on many years of hoof study..over 25 now for Dr. Strasser. She's a vet and has a clinic, she does a "clinic" trim in that clinic which is not meant for the field, but many people take the field trimming TOO far..way too far.. All because of lack of understanding.
There it is. Straight from someone who has dealt with the "Anti-Strasser" and why. And answers to becoming certified.
Regarding carving the sole: I have personally found, online, where they show carving out to make the sole concave. I don't agree with that, I believe that concavity comes from movement, and the type of ground the horse is moving on.
I also think, and please remember, I am still not way up there on the learning curve ;-), that the misconception of carving out the sole comes from when they take the bars, which were neglected, and carve (bad word!) them out along the frog..that as far as I know, is o.k.
That is taking out excess bar material, not sole.
And as Joni said, you do take out sole, but never live sole.
I am ashamed to say this but when someone volunteered out of the blue to help me after I posted pictures on a yahoo group, and I saw she was a Strasser Certified Trimmer, I almost didn't take the help!
I had read too many horror stories myself.
All we can do as horse owners is become as knowledgeable as possible and then we can help point our trimmers in the right direction. If you have one that isn't open minded, find one who is, or start trimming yourself. If I can do it, anyone can do it.
It's hard at times, frustrating, but the rewards knowing your horses are getting constant hoof tweaks and hoofs are staying in their best form...PRICELESS!
And some day soon, I will have all 16 (hoofs) of mine in TOP form,  With more knowledge, hands on experience, and AND the proper environment.
O.K., folks, off my hay bale now, carry on!
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