|
|
Discussion on Neighbors horse
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 2:52 pm:
Hi All, My neighbor bought/got for his children two horses 1 : Arab Gelding at least 19 2: 'Polish Arab mare' about the same age. They arrived in spring gelding was skinny mare was more or less ok weight but no shiny coat. I dewormed them [first pyrantel then ivermectin] for him and gave as much advice as I dared without offending a good neighbor. To no avail.
10 Days ago they came back in the 'pasture' next to our house and the gelding was about a 1 to 2 and the mare a tiny 3 as far as I can say. I started feeding and got the owner to agree that I feed them from now on. Dewormed [twice first half dose Ivermectin week later whole ivermectin] started two big flakes Bermuda per horse and am now at the point that they have free choice Bermuda, and two flakes alfalfa each a day, plus half a pound of beetpulp plus half a pound of ricebran each[mixed with vitamins] and a mineral salt lick.The beetpulp esp. because the gelding has bad teeth and the owner can't afford another float[vet did him a few months ago but warned he needed to be done again although he doesn't 'quid' at the moment]
The mare grows nicely perhaps even eats to much, the gelding has perked up but is still a walking skeleton, I asked the owner to put up a fence/paddock so that I can feed the gelding separately during the night he has agreed but that will take some time.
I am inclined to leave them on this feedschedule for a few weeks [or until I can separate them] to avoid overfeeding the mare.
Any suggestions, have I overlooked important stuff? All advice welcome!
Thanks
Jos
PS Warned the owner to KEEP AN EYE on his children now they perk up, don't think there is a way to feed them AND keep them calm is there?
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 3:10 pm:
Jos you might try adding more fat to the gelding's diet, for hard keepers I always start with a couple ounces a day of corn oil and work up from there. Adding fat has the added benefit of not tending to make them as hot as extra carbs (grain etc), and it doesn't require thorough chewing.
You might also consider adding some senior grain to the gelding's diet. If he is not getting all he should from the hay due to teeth problems senior grains are more processed so more easily digested and you can often safely feed more than you can of other concentrates.
Good for you getting these horses on the right track without offending your neighbor, that is a tricky task to accomplish!
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 4:18 pm:
Thanks Shannon, I agree more oil[and perhaps a good concentrate if really necessary, I have to keep the costs as low as possible]is where we will end up. At this moment I try to take it slow just don't know how slow is appropriate, these horses have a rather long history of way to little as far as I could find out. And before really being able to 'stuff' the gelding he needs to be fed separated, as I do not want to overfeed the second horse... But patience is difficult as long as I see bones
Jos
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 8:44 pm:
Hi Jos,
At 19, Cushings is a possibility. An older horse that is hard-keeping in the face of good feed and proper de-worming raises that flag in my mind. I don't know the prevalence of tapeworms in your area, but you may want to confirm that your de-worming covers that. But from the (apparent) mild depression and failure to gain....
Good luck.
- elk
|
Member:
juliem
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 9:37 pm:
Well, bless you Jos...........
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 10:31 pm:
Thanks Elizabeth, next Ivermectin will be combined with praziquantel or I will take a double dose pyrantel[perhaps safer with horses in this condition.]
I don't see Cushings signs as they are to skinny to have fat on their neck and butt and their coat is a bit colorless but not exactly long. I will wait and feed for a few more weeks I think and see where they get to.
Thanks Julie but it is SUCH a pleasure to see them perk up and all without a mad neighbor!!!
Jos
|
Member:
sodmonst
|
Posted on Friday, Oct 23, 2009 - 11:08 pm:
elk might be giving you a good lead.
jos, you are their fairy Godmother! Here is what we do, I don't know if it will work for you, but it does for us.
One of our two horses needs more calories than the other. We use two individual feed containers about 30 feet apart. We use hang on the fence feeders, but rubber feed pans would work great. The fat horse gets more beet pulp, but a very small bit of rice bran. The other horse gets a half pound of rice bran per feeding, and a little less beet pulp. In other words, the fat horse gets a little more volume, but fewer calories.
The fatter dominant horse gets her her low-fat ration first, and as soon as she settles in to her meal (less than a minute), the other horse gets his higher fat ration. He can finish up about the same time that she does, or even a few minutes earlier. The other horse doesn't know that his meal is different from hers. The trick is to have the feeders far enough apart that she doesn't really want to stop eating long enough to walk over to check out his meal.
You are kind to help those horses. I think that sometimes they are putting a little fat on inside before it is noticeable on the outside. I might be wrong, but that's just my notion for what it's worth.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 8:54 am:
Jos,
I joined HA 6 1/2 years ago when we bought a walking skeleton filly, age 6 months or a year. I followed the info on here.
It's hard to not want to just feed and feed, but patience is a must in this situation. All the hay and/or pasture you can provide, easy on the "grain" unless it's low carb, and corn oil. I also did the half wormings, then full, and put her on daily wormer after she put some weight on.
Her coat was dry, patches of hair, she had warts, ring worm, and I swear it was a miracle she was standing yet. She is now a very sassy healthy 7+ year old.
She put on weight steadily, but this horse is older so it may take a bit longer. Hope the teeth get done again, and a vet is involved to check for other things that could need addressing.
Bless you for helping!
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 10:25 am:
See this is why I love HA! I bet the fatter one WILL be to lazy to walk to the second food bin if I put them far apart! That will get me through the next 14 days then Rue the gelding will have his own 'nightpen'.That also forces me to wait a bit before completely stuffing him
And Angie apart from the warts and ringworm a nice description you give of Rue! Although he is stronger then a weanling or yearling you can with a bit of effort push him over, he is getting much better already though in his color and attitude. On the whole 'Babe' the mare gives me more concerns: bad color dirty coat and less 'happy' attitude[though that might be character to] even though she isn't THAT much underweight. I will look into the tapeworms with her guess I can deworm with double pyrantel in two weeks instead of four for praziquantel? Will look that up.
Thanks for the ideas!
Jos
PS Noticed already with Rhonda that horses LOVE ricebran!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 10:44 am:
Jos you seem to have all the nutritional bases covered. I agree the next most important step is to develop techniques to feed these two their concentrate and alfalfa separately. Perhaps they could be tied while they eat?
DrO
|
Member:
sodmonst
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 11:04 am:
jos, I was thinking about you this morning when I fed.  The two horses know the routine now, and go stand at the fence at their "stations." There isn't even any tussle at the start. For a while, we had a big, round water trough that we use for a hay bin between them, which also helped.
Incidentally, using that big, round tank for hay really works. It's big enough that they get space between them, and if the "boss" decides to make the other move, they just end up going round and round. No corners to bump into. The other part is they eat in a natural, head-down manner, and the bottom keeps the hay free of sand. Even the burros can get in there. They all eat in a nice social group, but really cannot molest each other.
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 11:04 am:
Hey Jos,
Don't forget about nosebags-- old-fashioned but very handy if you have the time to walk back and remove the halter/bag after feeding. Also helps with older horses if they are "chumblers" and DrOp their food.
We use them frequently out here with paddocked horses that need a "private spot" to eat their Senior or whatever. Though Sara will remind me that there's a weight/volume limit on them....
- elk
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 11:25 am:
Jos,
I had two mares that got very different amounts of feed. One got very little( existed on air) and the other got a lot because she was racing.
I tied the fat one to the fence ( strong fence), gave her enough rope to be able to get into the feed tub and reach her fluffed up hay and then I waited while the other one ate. The other one was pretty quick about eating and signaled she was done when she went to her own pile of fluffed up hay. That meant I could turn the fat one loose. We did not have a problem with the hay piles, only the food (concentrate)other than the food issue everything else was fine.
I'm not sure if this is the safest way to do this, but once my fat mare learned that she was going to only get fed if she was tied, she was really good about it. The other mare finished way before the fat mare was done with her hay pile.
Rachelle
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 3:18 pm:
Jos, you are an angel. Hope you aren't going broke feeding extras!
|
Member:
sodmonst
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 4:44 pm:
I like the nose bags idea. I considered it for our horses, it would have worked great, but the local feed store didn't have any. I bought what they had. Used to use burlap feedbags to make homemade ones. If you make your own be sure to make sure it has breathing holes!
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 5:20 pm:
Jos, here's a link to a nosebag, in case you decide to go that route. I'm ordering one myself because it is such a great idea! I have horses that all eat at different speeds, and of course, the fattest are the fastest
https://www.usrodeosupply.com/Tack-Gifts/Pack-Equipment/Canvas-Nosebag
Erika, the surfing shopper.
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Saturday, Oct 24, 2009 - 5:47 pm:
Erika I will sooner go broke on the surfing shopping
I can tie the mare have already started that but I still want the owner to make a place to put one of them 'away' at a time. Also because I think it will be safer for the children having only one horse at a time around them[not getting in between fighting horses]And it will allow the gelding to take a rest from being 'bossed' around.
Fot the moment I experiment with large spaces between feed tubs and tying!
Thanks again for all the advice!
Jos
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 9:52 am:
We use nosebags when we horse camp in primitive areas and it would help with the concentrate but it won't solve the alfalfa problem, one of the best sources of nutrients a poor conditioned horse can get.
DrO
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Sunday, Oct 25, 2009 - 3:07 pm:
Thanks Dr. O That settles it. For the moment the mare[who was also in a poor condition though less] can eat alfalfa too and probably due to her age she will be able to stay eating a few flakes of alfalfa. As I cannot overdo feeding so soon anyway, they will eat more and more alfalfa with freechoice bermuda and in a few weeks I will separate them at night and start upping the feed of the gelding.
They already start to be very happy and noisy so I think we are on the road to nice 'fat' horses as long as I behave and don't rush upping the food. They are now 2 weeks on my 'regime' and give no signs of overfeeding colicking stocking up etc.I think that sounds like: so far so good!
Thanks again everybody and I will update from time to time. Without to many underlying problems they will imo be fine in a few months and happy they already are!
Jos
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 3, 2009 - 11:53 am:
Update on Babe and Rue: While I was having a good time in Tulsa with Sara and Mike was in charge of the zoo he made the mistake to offer Babe and Rue bermuda instead of alfalfa and got more or less thrown out of their paddock to fetch the right stuff . When I came home I could even after three days see that they had grown a bit more, the mare now looks nice the gelding I can see his ribs but his spine is disappearing. So I cut them back a bit on [free choice]
hay and alfalfa as much as they like so as not to overdo fattening them up. The mare now gets tied to a gate while eating beetpulp which gives Rue the chance to finish his beetpulp and ricebran.
Yesterday I had to jump out of their way and twisted my ankle. So the neighbors horses are now dangerous but very happy
Jos
PS I DID warn about five times the neighbor should keep his children out of their way and hope he takes that serious!
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 4, 2009 - 10:57 am:
Glad to hear they are back on their way to fat and sassy again Jos!
|
Member:
leslie1
|
Posted on Wednesday, Nov 4, 2009 - 11:35 am:
Youre so sweet Jos! The neighbors are lucky to have you near
L.
|
|
|
