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  Discussion on Diva Mare Transition to Barefoot II
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Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 2:51 pm:

Well, when I went out for the late lunch check in at the horse barn, Diva was her jumpy, pouncy, run at the divider Diva self to the gelding next door. Of course she is still on nice, forgiving flooring, rubber mats, and lots and lots of straw. I scooted her butt over so I could pick some of the manure. The straw is so deep, the manure disappears. I have to scratch around to find it. She has been outside at least once. There are prints in the dry lot and a pile of poo which wasn't there this morning. We're about 40 hours past the shoe removal. The horses had lots to look at this morning as there was activity in the barn all morning. Another reason not to go out in the wind.

Diva mare's front feet are pretty round, so I think the Old Mac's are recommended over the Old Mac's G2 which is the newer model but better suited to oval shaped hooves. If I measured correctly and if I traced her foot correctly, she should wear a 2 in OM and a 3 in OMG2. Dainty Diva Feet--like the Princess and Pea. I'd rather she had clodhopper feet. Glass slippers don't do well on the trail.

Thanks for the generous offer Diane, but you had better keep those boots...you never know when you will take in a dozen rescue horses. Maybe when hubby returns from hunting one day, you can claim ignorance how they got there. Tell him someone just must have DrOpped them off... OR if there is a rescue close, maybe they could use them if you don't want them cluttering up your hidey hole?

I'll check back in later. I was online soooo much yesterday that I have a tron of stuff to do and I had better get on it or there will be trouble for me later...lol
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 4:52 pm:

In response to Diane's last post on part one, I am not against boots for riding the while a horses hoofs are transitioning (toughening up!) to barefoot. Riding is different than the horse picking their speed and footing as she points out.

Sounds like she's doing better already!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 5:24 pm:

Diva must have a bigger/longer hoof than appears in the pics. Sam takes a size 1 in the regular Old Mac, I pictured her hoof smaller than Sam's.

Not sure what Hank would take anymore, He was in a size 7 in G2 when I got the first pair The last pair was a 4 and they were a bit big...how's that for loosing toe!

Glad Diva is feeling snarky again always a good sign.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 5:37 pm:

if I measured right...tracing hoof and using a ruler on the hoof, she is 4 1/4" and 4 1/2" wide. 4 1/2-3/4" long.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 5:39 pm:

All,
I would like to put this in a slightly different perspective. If we were trying to rehab an injury for example a suspensory, a tendon or a broken bone, would we be in such a rush to ride or even move our horses? I don't think so.

I feel that rehabbing feet or transitioning to barefoot is just about the same thing. Too much too soon and you have a sore horse, luckily we have boots and if one must ride a newly transitioned horse then you need boots to do it.

If on the other hand we looked at this the same way as we do those other types of injuries, then most of us would take as long as it takes to get us where we wanted to be. IMHO the feet are the most important but neglected part of a horses body and in most cases its more important to take care of feet then anything else.

I agree with Angie on this, the more you put the boots on the longer its gonna take you to get where you want to go. But at least now we are talking boots and not shoes( YEAH!)

Glad to hear Diva mare is feeling better. I think she is going to be a handful once her feet don't hurt any more.

Rachelle
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 5:39 pm:

Angie, thanks for asking your hoof guru. Nice of her to offer info!

off to get dinner on the table.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 6:54 pm:

HMMMM I don't think an injured tendon or broken bone is close to comparable of ouchy transitional hooves. Broken bones and torn tendons can not be protected to ride the horse or even turn it out.

Fortunately there are boots( I will keep shoes out of this conversation!) to add protection where as in you can keep the horse exercised, moving, and happy. After all movement is one of the keys to healthy hooves, not standing around on soft ground in pain

When Hank foundered he was pretty much crippled and didn't move much. Everyday and twice a day on weekends I would put on his old macs with comfort pads and handwalk him for miles. He loved it and was happy to feel good for a few hrs. a day. When we got back from our walks and I took his boots off he always moved better, maybe got the circulation going dunno.

IMHO Depending on how ouchy a horse is I think boots are a VERY good solution to keep the horse moving (circulation) and happy mentally. Not 24/7 but at least a few hours a day or for riding. FWIW I think it helps the healing not hinder it.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 7:36 pm:

I see wisdom in both R & D's rehab thoughts. I'm sure many folks rush the transitions--perhaps impatience, show/competition schedules, ignorance (as if I have room to talk), etc. And I can see where the boots would be handy to have to facilitate rehab, alleviate boredom, keep mentally fit... The trick for me will be determining when to go with and without boots!

I do think I should leave Diva mare alone as far as even hand walking right now--maybe a week/two and see how it goes. Let her heal. Turn her out then handwalking with boots and w/o boots before riding makes sense to me. We'll probably seesaw between ok and sore for awhile. There is no reason I have to ride--I have no show/competition/race/training schedule to worry about. It's just me and I'm 50 with nothing to prove and no pride to speak of. If it looks like a long transition--like a year, I'll buy an additional horse--one with big fat clodhopper feet and a face of an anvil if need be--to ride. There's no fire here. It can take the time it takes. I have been the Queen of take it slow. MY inlaws are always giving me he//, "Why aren't you riding her every day?"....blah, blah, blah. Riding is only one small part of horse enjoyment to me.

She didn't get ridden Jan-May 09 due to toe bruising and then the scalping she did to herself in April because I didn't want to move too fast on the tenderfoot. I tore my left lcl in May, so Diva didn't get ridden much until Sept 09--Sept/Oct ridden maybe six times with little cantering. Part of the reason she went to Denny's so late in the year was because I wanted a solid 30 days on her before winter after such a long, long time off. And if I count the time off in Nov & Dec 08, she has had lots of time off and ridden lightly summer 08. She was a miserable mare the first 6 months (April-Sept 08) because it was her only big LIFE move, big change of riding schedule, lived in the same barn for 10 years, etc. So we took it slow and stayed on the ground. It took that long for her to decide this place was ok and I was tolerable--or so it seemed to me.

The Haffies have been barefoot for five years. It can be done.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 8:13 pm:

Ok guys, I have been traveling and so only able to get to the easier posts, this one has grown so quickly there never seemed to be a place to jump in. I can only remember one direct question and that was whether the heels were contracted. Though they look pretty good when looking straight on the picture that sights down the heels and frog suggest mild contraction. The sulcus seems narrower than when viewed straight on but most incriminating is the way the coronet at the lateral heels overhang the contracted walls.

Overall I agree that it looks like this was a pretty dang short trim for the first barefoot trim but on the other hand conformational defects have been greatly improved, particularly the run under heels. Great care should be taken to protect these soles until they are tough enough for soundness. You have many choices and they are covered in the article Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Hoof Abscesses, Bruises, and Gravels.

I agree with the above assessment the ground contact surface of the walls need to be beveled particularly at the toe and quarters. Without it the walls will chip and are more prone to cracking.

I would like to have seen a roll put on the toe, moving breakover back and the key in my opinion to growing more upright heels. This may have to come gradually as the sole becomes tougher however.

Vicki are there other questions you had?
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 9, 2009 - 9:20 pm:

Thanks Dr. O. I didn't ever have a direct question. It was just a general "what do you think, jump in and critique."

Hard to get a word in edge wise with a bunch of hens sometimes. Although, I think my husband can talk me under the table.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 7:13 am:

Vicki as Dr.O. says sole protection is going to be important for Diva for awhile...been there done that. Bruising of the soles set Hank back Many, many times until his sole thickened up. I couldn't keep him in shoes or boots in the winter, because of our hills and weather and that frozen irregular ground was the worst for him. I think you said Diva had a problem with that last winter?

If you have flat ground some sort of protection from that for awhile would be a good idea. Hoofwraps are good, but they do not hold up through turnout in the "weather".

Old Macs or some sort of boot with pad would allow Diva a little turnout time without the worry of bruising. I don't know if you get that type of ground where you are (frozen hard and irregular) but if you do FME protect those soles somehow until you have a thicker sole.

This is the 1st year in quite a while I am not worried about it. It ALWAYS set Hank back, was a very vicious, painful circle.

You will know when to boot or not, Diva WILL tell you
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 2:17 pm:

Thanks Diane. I did order a pair of Old Mac's Original and a small and med Easy Soaker boot to have in my arsenal. I measured her three different times and did one tracing, so let's hope they fit--at least for awhile. The ground here is pretty darn flat. The smaller turnout pasture by the barn is not cut up too bad as I don't usually let them in that one if it is slippery/muddy. It's a little less than an acre and actually was part of the runway until a year ago and it was kept rolled FLAT. Landing an ultralight (lawnchair airplane/suicide machine)on uneven ground is not a good idea.

None of the three have been out much at all since Sunday in the dry lots. 8 degrees and 30 mph winds might have something to do with it. They stick their faces out and that is about it.

I read Tuesday almost all day and a few hours last night. Much of it was rereading, but here's hoping some sinks in. Wonder how much I can accomplish in 13 weeks? Sure would like to get that toe back some.

Still no return calls from any of the professionals I called.

Thanks again for posting. I certainly appreciate it. Some of you girls should be on Dr. O's payroll.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 4:20 pm:

DrO,

Did you read that last suggestion???

Vicki,

You will see a lot of improvement in 13 weeks if you keep after the beveling. IF you understand beveling, and understand that that beveling "mustang roll" will move the break over back and get some heels...as DrO pointed out, then you will see changes pretty quickly.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 7:58 pm:

He'd probably like to pay me to shut up.

Vicki the riders rasp actually puts a pretty good bevel on the hoofwall. I wouldn't be in any big hurry to get a farrier out there. Your farrier may be fine, I had to talk to mine too. slowly but surely we got there. Just try to arm yourself with some knowledge. As short as her hoof looks now the riders rasp may get you through winter...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 9:04 pm:

Hmmm. If the riders rasp is idiot proof, I'll be ok.

Diane, you have been a member approx 110 months and have made 5548 posts = 49.52 posts per month on average. Me, member 8 months and 456 posts = 57 posts per month on average. Sounds like he needs to shut me up before he shuts you up. If my math is correct...

But Angie on the other hand is currently a member 5 Months (but I know I've seen her name before, so maybe she stopped and started membership?) with 446 posts = 89.2 posts per month...

Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 9:56 pm:

Vicki,

Its almost idiot proof. You just need to let your horse's feet grow out a bit more before you try and use it.

It does do a really good job of beveling, just do it lightly at first while you get the hang of it. Extra blades are a must.

Rachelle
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 - 11:13 pm:

Vicki, I know Angie's been on longer than that; must be a glitch in the membership area. She's been a member several years if I remember right. So, that leaves you and Diane!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 6:52 am:

Sara you are right there with us...not doing math in the morning tho!

I ordered some new blades for my riders rasp and got the coarser ones, haven't tried them yet.

The riders rasp is a do no harm tool. I don't think you could over do it even if you wanted to.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 7:12 am:

If members stop and restart their membership, the number of posts is preserved but the restart date is refreshed to when they rejoined.
DrO
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 7:17 am:

Yup, member since June of 2002 I think. Whenever we brought Gem home and I researched feeding malnourished horse back to health. That's how I found HA.

Credit card glitch got my membership cancelled and restarted.

I wasn't close to you Sara on the posts though! Libbie's ordeal, man that was some discussion for some time. With the best outcome!

I wish my original date of joining still showed up, I'd maybe be more credible then?? Not sure if showing number of posts is a good thing or not, lol!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 7:24 am:

DrO, that didn't happen in my case. I restarted at zero posts, listed as new member, don't remember all the details though. No biggie!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 7:27 am:

Wonder what the point of showing total posts is anyway? Dr.O.?? If it wasn't for being "grandfathered" in on the cost I would zero out!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 8:17 am:

Perhaps Diane it shows how helpful the site is?

Sara Sara, your average is 46.88 average posts per month. No finger wagging at Diane now.

Rachelle, maybe I can handle "almost" idiot proof. And you have been a member longer than 2008 haven't you? Seems like you have slightly changed your user name a time or two?

I'll order the replacement blades today. I'll have to check into the blade "selections".

I looked out the window a moment ago and Diva mare was strolling through the frozen dry lot. it's 16 today which is a bit warmer than the 6 I saw yesterday. The wind must have laid some as the horses were out. She appeared to be moving decently, but I'm sure she wasn't yahooing it up out there.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 8:21 am:

Probably a good the thing the weather was awful so she chose to stay inside instead of me shutting her inside. Maybe she won't blame me as much for her predicament!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 10:13 am:

I'll admit that I sometimes am guilty of taking over the HA board. Someone's got to keep you "young whipper-snappers" in line!

I've been following this post and re-reading Diane's and some of the other posts and articles on problem feet trying to learn as much as possible.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 10:48 am:

Nope,
I've been a member since 2008, wished I'd joined sooner. I can't tell you how much good advice there is on these boards even if sometimes we tend to disagree. I think its good for the discussions to get as many perspectives as possible.

Sometime's this board reminds me of learning something hard where all of a sudden you have one of those priceless "a ha" moments, when it all comes together and finally makes sense.

I think discussing what ever the problem was or is makes the solution come more quickly and more clearly than trying to deal with it on your own, but thats the educational constructivist group collaborator in me. I will always think of this board, the people on it and Dr. O as a collaboration of sorts to try and get solutions to very difficult problems using everyone's knowledge and experience to learn.
Rachelle
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 4:09 pm:

rach and everyone
I have a friend here who is a BF trimmer and is taking a TB racehorse from shod to barefoot. She has a neat blog about him and getting him back into racing form, barefoot...here is her link if anyone wants to follow it (its called the racehorse expeirment)
https://www.theracehorseexperiment.com/index.htm
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 5:23 pm:

Leslie,

Thanks for the link. I will be watching the progress.

Basically I have been doing this for 3 years for the same reasons.

My race mare is now turned out for a few months to be a horse for a while with my 19 year old gelding and my yearling is in the very early stages of training after doing the ground work routine.

There is one positive aspect of thoroughbred training versus standardbred training and that is they do not have to race on abrasive stone dust tracks.

She should get a copy of Tim Ivers "The Fit Racehorse II" and read the thoroughbred sections.

Interval training is the way to go, both my baby and my race mare will be doing this as they make their way make to the races. And as soon as I decide to geld the yearling ( soon) he and she will be field buddies as soon as it is reasonably possible.

The method basically is Long Slow Miles for ( lungs and heart) conditioning, with progressive loading down to a certain speed, then faster works at less distance with shorter rest intervals and finally fast short bursts of speed closer to race speed.

I've wanted to do this for a long time, but never had a place( training center) that would give me the freedom to do it. Now that I've moved, it appears the opportunity is there to do this.
But alas I digress, this should be in a different thread.

Rachelle
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Dec 11, 2009 - 8:46 pm:

Thanks Leslie for posting the link. Looks like an interesting case to follow!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 7:31 am:

Vicki how is Diva doing with her "barefoot shock"?

HA is one of the best forums for "brainstorming" I have never seen so much common sense, and hands on experience anywhere, and when we get out of hand Dr.O. "yells" at us, and brings us back to earth. Not often tho, so does show he is either very tolerant OR our experiences are pretty good OR both!

Bet Dr.O. would like a pulling his hair out smiley Icon for himself
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 8:34 am:

Leslie,

Thanks for the link, interesting.

Diane,

DrO keeps us "scientific" ya know. I think besides a hair pulling icon, we need a rattle with chicken bones icon,

(Gooood Mooorninng DrO!!)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 8:48 am:

Angie
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 8:54 am:

Vicki,

You've probably read this before, but I wanted to put this out there again anyhow. A link from Leslie's page;

https://www.barefoottrimming.com/

Especially interesting the part that says "tried to go barefoot but my horse was ouchy. He was fine as soon as his shoes were put back on. Doesn't that mean he needs shoes?"

I wish every horse owner who gave up on their horses going barefoot would understand what she says in that next paragraph!

Diane,

I am glad I am amusing you so much this morning! Must be a record, THREE ROFL ICONS?!?! I am going to be laughing all day picturing that, lol!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 9:15 am:

I think both icons are definitely something he should put up. We pull our hair out over horse mysteries all the time, so he could justify putting it up for that reason and then of course use it himself--however, he would have to figure out who the namby pambies are who can't take direct, blunt information. And that is hard! Perhaps he should reserve it only for those members who have been around a long time. Of course new members often ask dumb questions (like myself), so the icon would be handy then too. Probably too problematic for him to use. BUT we could use it for sure.

Now the rattle with chicken bones icon is a stroke of genius Angie for all the ideas unsupported by science. This would save Dr. O a lot of typing. Surely he has 100 cut and paste answers by now but that icon would masterfully express the whole paragraph.

Thanks girls for the belly laugh. Love it.

Diva Mare was outside several times yesterday in the dry lot at a slow, short stride in the front, walk. She turned pretty well. Doesn't rock back. Isn't weighting any foot more than another. The tell tale sign that she is pretty ouchy; however, was her lack of movement when the Haffies went out to the pasture. She watched them from the dry lot and the door to her stall but did not zip around her dry lot asking to go and "Why not me?". Normally any of the three is quite indignant when others get to leave the dry lot and he/she doesn't! She just looked a little forlorn, DrOpped her head, and stumped back into the stall. Poor baby. Thankfully the Haffies didn't tear around acting joyful but were respectful of her situation (yah, right) and just walked out and started munching frozen grass. So I cleaned the dry lot (love frozen apples frozen to the ground) and watched her. She had a flake of hay to compensate for being penned up and watched the Haffies try to paw up a bit of grass.

I'm planning on rebedding her stall this morning. Not sure if I'll have her out in the aisle on concrete or not.

Last night during my usual activity of reading as much of the web and HA as humanly possible, I ran across a perhaps chicken bones/rattle sole hardener. 1/2 oz tea tree oil and 8 oz red cider vinegar. Think it was here on HA. (I have Keratex, but that stuff is $40+ per bottle.) I am assuming (dangerous I know) that the stuff shouldn't be applied to the frog as my farrier told me the Keratex shouldn't be applied to the frog. Am I on track or rattling my chicken bones? I was wondering about the oil/cider concoction as a lower cost option in case I am painting Diva's soles for the next ten years.

UPS man should be bringing something today--not sure what, I keep ordering stuff. Good thing Hubby is hunting a lot...or I wouldn't be so quick to web shop for Diva mare.

So, Diane, I still am apprehensive about walking Diva until I get boots on. Not sure about pads or how to fit them yet. AFter five days of sore feet (lucky for me, four days were crappy weather and no one wanted to go out), I'm sure she is ready for a walk or turn out... Probably need an icon of "holding breath"...

Thanks for asking. Any insight is welcome.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 9:26 am:

Thanks Angie, I have read that info. I do understand that certainly the real ouchy feet are asking for protection. The trick will be knowing what kind and when which leads to how much and how long... Need hair pulling icon here Which in turn leads to medication "if needed" and what kind and how much and how long... Need hair pulling icon here ANd every horse is different. And every environment is different. And every horse's work load is different...

If she was a student in my class, I would have more insight. Managing adolescents I can do. Wonder if it will take 20+ years to be competent managing Diva? Seems like it took a good 15 to be a pretty good teacher IMHO.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 9:39 am:

Yell? Yell? Nahhh...I like to think of myself as the persistent nudger or maybe the little voice on your shoulder whispering in your ear: beeee sensible. And for the most part y'all are.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 9:43 am:

Angie was very amusing, least I didn't have coffee in my mouth this time! I forgot to add the humor on my list, and the scientific stuff has saved me many times! I still have to do my non-scientific experiments tho!

Back to hooves.

I think one of the major reasons people (including myself) resort to shoes is when a horse is still sore after MONTHS it can not be good for them. It would make for an inflammatory response that can/could lead to many things Ex. founder...pedal osteitis.

I have always thought barefoot is the best way to go as I am sure many people that have their horses in shoes do.

Re-hab of painful, misshapen hooves is hard on the owner and the horse. As with boots, I think shoes can help to accomplish barefoot. You know Hank has been in and out of shoes for the last 3-4 years.... barefoot was my goal at some point.

I had absolutely no doubt that the last time I pulled his shoes we would be able to accomplish this goal. I could tell by the way his hoof had changed, and from the good advice I received here.

The thin soles and bruising are the problem, and can really set a horse up for pain and ongoing inflammation. Yes I think it could have been done without shoes, but I don't think his sole would have thickened up as quickly with ongoing inflammation. When Hank was going through this I read everything possible relating to barefoot and shod. One thing that stuck out was pedal osteitis can be quite often caused by thin soles and ongoing inflammation. I had no desire to go there.

In a way it is a double edged sword, I thought of the shoe/ OR boots as a tool to get to barefoot. It worked... The horses path is now that packed down hard irregular stuff that always caused Hank bruising and made him stay in the lean-to whinnying for food or his friends...Today he trotted out on it

It really depends on the pathology of the horses hoof, a thick sole can endure a lot more than a thin one.

Don't get me wrong, I too think barefoot is the very best for a horse...but sometimes it is way easier said than done. Then there is finding a good farrier

Scientific
https://www.merckvetmanual.org/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/90724.htm
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 10:08 am:

Vicki if you got the pads that come with the old macs you just cut them to size. FME if you want to walk Diva doing it on soft ground (if you have any) is very beneficial. IMHO I'd stay off hard ground at least for awhile (except with the boots). You will be amazed how nice she moves when you get those boots on her! You will see the smile on her face.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 10:13 am:

Oh Vicki forgot one of the cheapest hoof hardeners is iodine/betadine...didn't you read the articles???

Nothing really seemed to help Hanks, except thrushbuster. Getting her hooves back in order is the best thing you can do for her soles. You may be able to harden them a little, but what is most important is getting them thicker.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 11:15 am:

Diane, the pads on the old mac site come in three thickness, with frog support, without frog support...cripes. ?

Hard ground is all we have right now...so boots it is.

I did see the iodine/betadine. It's on my growing list of info printed out. I'm making myself a lovely 3 ring binder of info...

Too bad hard sole doesn't equal thick sole.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 12:59 pm:

Hoofs...,

The only BAD thing about shoes, based on my limited experience, is the hoof can't expand and then consider that "jarring" going through the hoof and leg.

Some of the newer shoes are a step in the right direction, I think Rachelle has been trying some.

So maybe instead of boots/shoes/barefoot, we should specify "Traditional nail on shoes" vs boots vs barefoot? There has to be some kind of happy medium here. I hope.

Vicki,

You coined a new phrase I do believe:

"Am I on track or rattling my chicken bones?"

Guess when DrO adds some new icons, we need a little yellow beeee too, OMG, we are soo funny today!

I do believe DrO just gave us all a compliment!

BTW, don't hold your breath, that's not healthy, tee hee. And remember hoofs grow slower in the winter, patience patience patience.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 2:46 pm:

Vicki I just used the plain old comfort pads, Diva may not even need pads in her boots. Sam never did.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 6:32 pm:

I was going to put this in Hanks thread, but in a way it seems relevant here.

Last year Hank had that awful bruising on his hooves and grew that weird toe callous (was quite remarkable. He has been out walking and trotting on his enemy the winter hard packed ground. I have unfortunately been ignoring his hooves since his trim(too cold) and decided to have a look at them tonight to see if any bruising was becoming evident, the snow cleans hooves better than I can!

His hooves do need a beveling and the outside wall needs some work..BUT no bruising and he seems to be developing a "normal" toe callous

Vicki I wanted you to see how bruised his hooves were at this time last year..and yes he was sore, and why I am trying to help you avoid this. Also why I am so passionate about protecting thin soles
See if you can guess which is this years pic.



This was 2007 with todays...he was crippled, see the coffin bone rattling on the sole


Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 - 9:40 pm:

I certainly appreciate your concern and suggestions Diane. I have to say I have received more concern and help here on HA than the big time professional Farrier #2 ever gave (and was very well compensated for).

Diva's bad toe bruising last February wasn't nearly as extensive as Hank's sole bruising in the picture. But hers was plenty ouchy and deep. I'm waiting on the boots to get here before I walk her out of the stall/dry lot area. She hasn't acted too irritated just yet that she hasn't been in the pasture, but I figure it's coming soon. Especially if the weather breaks. She enjoyed some sunshine yesterday. I didn't see her out much today however. The wind picked up.

I just got back from Wal-Mart (in the freezing drizzle) with bags of goodies from the pharmacy dept--most for my horsey friends. naproxin, neosporin, athletes foot creme, etc.

I ordered some of the cool curved (Monoject 412) syringes touted on Ramey's site to get thrush meds in the crevice between the heel bulbs. Windy has thrush in his right front that I cannot seem to knock so I'm going to use Ramey's concoction and boot him for awhile.

I didn't get Diva's stall changed out today like I had planned. Had Christmas at my MIL's and it ran longer than anticipated. So she didn't get much attention today other than fed and a quick look over as she walked around her stall. She did go out a few times as there are a few piles in the dry lot. good sign.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 - 7:48 am:

Glad Diva is handling things well. Her hoof is similar to Hanks in the 07 picture, notice how much rounder and compact his has become, only took 3 years. I don't think Diva's will take that long at all, especially if you follow the good advice here.

Keep us posted
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 - 8:43 am:

Though the Merck Manual provides good information I prefer our own take on pedal osteitis in horses, a often misdiagnosed disease. For more see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Pedal Osteitis.
DrO
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Sunday, Dec 13, 2009 - 8:16 pm:

I had a return email from a certified AANHCP trimmer who is also a field instructor. She has room for me and will be here Jan 7. No charge for the hour and fifteen travel as she has a route that includes my area if I stay on as a regular.

Angie, does that make Diva Mare and me lucky? $35 per trim which is cheaper than I'm paying now.

I got her stall completely changed out and rebedded. I made her walk out to the dry lot to munch some hay while I cleaned. She wasn't too pleased but went for the food. She is still limiting her steps to the bare minimum outside the stall. In six days there have only been five piles of poo in the dry lot.

Angie, you'll have to let me know when this discussion is too long and I need to start Part III. At this rate Diane I will exceed your 4 part hoof story in just a few days...
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Dec 14, 2009 - 8:32 am:

Ha ha, still typing o.k., in real time!

Congrats on getting a trimmer coming. I used to pay $15 a horse, so I think $35 is high, but then I know I was lucky to have a trimmer charge so little. One reason I started trimming myself was I did not have $100.00 every 6 weeks for the "new" guy. And I did not like the arrogant S.*B.

Looking forward to before and after pictures. Make sure to get some really good pictures a day or 2 before she comes, even if you just save them on your computer and eamil them to me.

Oh, oh, sticking keys starting, lol!

Good luck.

How often will she come?

How lucky you are will depend on what she does, and how comfortable Diva mare is after.

I hope you are o.k., keeping a bevel on her hoofs til then?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Dec 14, 2009 - 8:40 am:

Hooves take many, many parts Vicki, unfortunately we can't fix them in one part!

I would also add to ask her many questions about her technique before she even touches the hoof, some people can be very radical.

If something don't ring right in your brain be sure to check with reading...or here... Good Luck!
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