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  Discussion on Sole calluses part 3
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Member:
cheryl

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 - 8:15 am:

Continuation of

Dr. O I am obviously misunderstanding what I should be understanding.
Given the information you have been given with the photos and x-rays, what would you do with these hooves?
These are photos of her feet 9/06:
Maybe they will help in comparing her feet from then to now.
I guess what I should have said for #2 was lower the heels just a little and back up the toe a little.
Thanks again - - -
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 - 1:33 pm:

Cheryl,
Because I cannot examine the feet directly I cannot tell you what to do with these hooves. The decisions of what specifically is to be done has to made by the veterinarian/farrier who is working on the feet. Even decisions made just before trimming might get changed based on what is found once it is begun.

What I can do is provide ideas and concepts based on the information you have provided and my experience with treating such feet. I think you need to consider having the coffin bone derotated as explained in the prior posts and gone into in detail in the article referenced earlier, see my Dec 27th and 29th post.

Considering your specific rephasing of question #2, I think rephrase the Dec 29th post: I think the heels need to be lowered substantially but as to how far down and how far forward the lowering is taken, so that you establish a more normal solar angle, would best be determined by a new set of radiographs to determine the position of the coffin bone. The images in the article on derotation show this better than I can explain. As to the front I think that much of the remarkable diseased white line should be rasped back so the flare does not perpetuate itself and seedy toe or other diseases of the white line can be addressed.
DrO
Member:
npo33901

Posted on Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 - 5:07 am:

Dr. O , would you mind to indicate as to how far you would rasp the wall - where the flare is of this mare ?

I am a bit confused about rasping a wall - of any horse !!
After seeing some videos and Jaimey Jackson tape.

The delicate tubules running from the top of the hoof wall to the bottom are bringing the "food" to the hoof wall . And if we rasp them off - ?

Do I understand that one rasps the wall as low as possible - just to eliminate the flare and thin the wall to the white line ?

Thank you. AM.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 - 7:56 am:

Anne you have a misunderstanding about hoof physiology, there are no tubules in the wall or insensitive white line that transport nutrients or any other substance for that matter. This horn is dead tissue but that is not an indication it is not important. Indeed the horse relies on this dead horn to stay alive which makes it all the more important to protect: dead tissue cannot heal. In this case the best way to protect and regrow good horn is to correct the coffin bone rotation. If there is no progressive infection of the white this alone may be enough according to some. However I have always had good luck, particularly at preventing future wall abscesses by removing flare.

Assuming nothing changes during a physical exam of the foot, at a minimum I would remove the flare evident in the standing photos above. But if the white line is as wide as some of the earlier photos indicate and if infiltrated with seedy toe as it almost always is I would remove much of the diseased white line. How much would depend on my assessment of the nature of the disease.
DrO
Member:
npo33901

Posted on Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 - 6:22 pm:

Dr. O . thank you very much for enlightening me .
Happy New Year , the whole year .!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jan 8, 2010 - 8:24 am:

Cheryl how did Fox's trimming go?
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Friday, Jan 8, 2010 - 8:57 am:

:-( Thanks for asking Diane - I came in the house to get my camera when the farrier left, tripped over the kitchen rug, landed on the corner of the breakfast bar, pushed off there to the floor. I tore the cartilage off my first rib and apparently tore a muscle. I was just sitting here thinking I could try to take some pictures today. I printed the section Dr. O wrote on 12/27 - with the blue line showing where he thought the hoof should end up. JT read through it a couple times - said - OK - we need to do this very slowly. He feels the white line is coming in just a tiny bit with each trim. He also rescheduled for 6 weeks instead of 8 which increased my confidence level considerably. Fox remains sound - zero sign of being sore - the footing is a sheet of ice with chunks of frozen slush - they both slip with every step. I've been throwing the manure all over their pen - so far they have managed to remain upright. With enough pain pills I should be able to get down to take pictures - Might not be able to get back up but what the heck:-)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jan 8, 2010 - 11:18 am:

YIKES Cheryl, sorry to hear about your injury. Glad Fox is doing well, at least you don't have to worry about it while you are healing!

Don't hurt yourself getting pics, but when you are ABLE I would love to see what the farrier is doing as you know I am dealing with somewhat the same situation with Hank.

Thanks for the update
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Jan 8, 2010 - 1:00 pm:

Ouch! Take care, Cheryl
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Jan 8, 2010 - 2:04 pm:

Good grief, Cheryl! Maybe you need some borium on your soles? So sorry. Ribs can be really painful. I broke three of mine once and found it helped if I taped them up when I was moving around a lot; it seemed to keep them from moving. I used vet wrap and duct tape over a t-shirt as was in the barn at the time, but think an Ace bandage would work. Take care!
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Saturday, Jan 9, 2010 - 10:36 am:

Thanks everyone - the pain pills are helping a bunch - have thought about wrapping it - may have to do that today - I went out to take photos yesterday - my dog - on his 26 foot Flexi leash - thought the cat had a mouse - took off with the leash wrapped around my legs - I of course - went splat - the camera went flying - the cat did NOT have a mouse - small cut on head bled all over the place - will try again today -
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Jan 9, 2010 - 10:47 am:

Sounds like you need to wrap yourself in some bubble wrap before going out, Cheryl.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, Jan 9, 2010 - 1:45 pm:

Good grief Cheryl, I need to apologize. After reading your posts I lmao visualizing the (prat) falls. It reminded me of a Three Stooges show. Poor you. You've had your share of spills. Be careful or you'll have yourself in traction.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 5:24 pm:

Not to apologize- Vicki - after I was through muttering obscenities - I looked up and Robbers was standing at the gate with his head cocked - looking for all the world like he was asking me why I was playing around on the ice instead of feeding him.
These are the photos I took - not the best but hope they will show something:

It looks to me like her heels are not even and are still way too long???
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Sunday, Jan 10, 2010 - 6:41 pm:

Cheryl,

I hope you are not in too much pain from your falls. I know how that can be and falling on the ice is no fun either, especially when your horse was looking right at you:-)

Anyway, I have some comments and a request for the next time you can get pictures. I'd like to see full sole shot, like the third picture from the top of this thread continuation.

Comments: I would be very careful trimming this horse and I would only do a little at a time, but more frequent. I think that over the years she has grown her foot to protect herself and I say this because she has quite a bit of heel height and toe height. In other words a lot of hoof. It looks like she's created her own concavity to pick the coffin bone up off the ground to protect it.

What needs to happen is everything needs to get shorter, toe's, heels etc. so that her foot and the rest of her legs can adjust to the newer foot form.

I'm sure you've read Diane's threads on what she's done with Hank's feet. She did it conservatively over a period of days and only did enough to make a slight difference until she had him where she wanted him. She worked to rocker back the toe and to take down the heels and bevel the walls to get rid of the flare.

I think you need to take the same course of action and realize its going to take time.

Rachelle
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 7:26 am:

Cheryl it is hard to tell from your pics. In the first picture it looks like she has two very different hooves? The left in the picture doesn't look as tall?

I would agree with Rachelle, with little I know that slow adjustments are the way to go. Can you do small weekly tweaks?

I'm afraid if Sam pulls through his problems I am going to try my hand at fixing his hooves, so keep us updated!

I took a look at Hanks hooves yesterday and they are starting to look much better too. I ran the RR around them and that was it. If nothing else it keeps the flares in check.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 9:20 am:

Rachelle - I'm confused - what is the difference in the full sole photos from the third in this series and the third in the last three I posted? I'm more than happy to try for any shot you need - but I can't see any difference - Please help - - I guess you are going to have to be more specific
I have always felt Fox had too much hoof - to me it's always looked like her hoof grew straight down - loooooong heels - a really upright hoof - I went back and found a somewhat good photo that shows her hooves back in 2001 I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative - I'm trying really hard to understand. I look at photos that show how a hoof is suppose to look - then look at her hooves and they are just so screwed up I don't know where to begin figuring out what needs to be done.
Diane - I'm sure Sam will come out of this - I feel certain you have the cause - now you just need to figure out how to get rid of the toxins causing it - and never fear - I will definitely keep you posted - Poor Fox is between a rock and a hard place - she stumbles on her back feet several times whenever she is ridden and it causes a lot of pain when she does it - but she doesn't lose weight unless she is exercised - In the photo above she was as close to a good weight as she has ever been - and she was being ridden on steep trails 6 - usually 7 days a week.
I screwed her feet up so badly when I was forced into doing them myself that I'm really afraid to touch them again. She is apparently totally sound as she is. She cantered from the back pasture into their pen yesterday - scared me speechless - how she managed to stay upright is beyond me - the entire area is ice. She wouldn't have done that if her feet hurt at all.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 9:22 am:

Sorry Rachelle - I thought I had posted three photos this last time - the last photo in the latest series is the one I was referring to.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Monday, Jan 11, 2010 - 11:31 am:

Cheryl,

It might be me, I did not see photo # 4 when I looked last night, but that's the one I wanted.

For some reason, your posts display larger than my screen and Perhaps I didn't scroll far enough across to see #4. Sorry for the confusion.

Rachelle
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