|
|
Discussion on Vet choice for gelding a two year old.
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 8:37 am:
Hello Dr. O,
I have decided to geld my 21 month old colt. I have the choice of a few vets that use different methods to do the gelding. One uses a closed method and sutures to prevent the intestines from DrOpping through the incision. The reasoning behind his use of this type of method is that he has less post operative complications and that in standardbreds some breeding lines are more prone to having problems with their lingual rings.
The other vet would do an open castration, I am not sure what exactly he does as far as his individual approach is but I have talked to him and he is willing to do the castration without using antibiotics. The colt does have to get a tetanus shot, which he is due for anyway. I will probably do his shots about 10 days before I geld him.
My questions:
Is it necessary to geld a horse in a stall? I want to geld him in the field, let him wake up and leave him where he is. I think this will cut down on any swelling, would allow him to move about at will and keep him much happier about the whole experience. He is not nuts and because he is outside quite a bit, he does not run around like a nutcase. He also does not lay down as much outside as he would in a stall (keeping the incision cleaner).
The only thing I do worry about are the Guinea hens and chickens that he chases after, usually in the morning and if this would be too much for him to deal with right after being gelded(or the next morning).
I have had horses gelded both ways, so I guess my last question would be in your opinion which way would be the best for my particular situation?
Thanks
Rachelle
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 11:43 am:
Taking your questions in order:
1) I prefer a field because it is cleaner than a stall. But if done in a stall it can simply be moved to the field once awake and coordinated.
2) I don't really see any information that makes me choose one or the other for you Rachelle. Just be sure you let the veterinarian you choose use the method he is familiar with.
DrO
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 6:22 pm:
Dr. O,
The problem with doing an open castration in the stall is that I bed on shavings, straw is not allowed. It has always been my experience that straw is a better bedding to use when gelding with an open incision. With the closed incision, I was told I didn't have to worry about they type of bedding as much because there was less likelihood of debris getting into the incision.
I have a double run in shed in the field that I can bed down with straw and if necessary I can rope off a fairly large area to use as an enclosure while he is recovering from the anesthesia and just remove the ropes when he is fully awake.
What it comes down to is cost and since I can't get answer from either vet as to what the cost is until after they get done( I guess it depends on what drugs they use). Neither one of them would even give me a ballpark.
What do you think it should normally cost to geld a horse using an open incision? A ball park will do. I gelded one a few years ago, but he was sutured and I am sure it cost extra.
Thanks
Rachelle
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 7:25 pm:
Rachelle, I have always had my horses gelded in a field, once they were awake they were left outside to move around at will. I never had any problems other than the "normal" swelling for a couple days.
At the eventing barn they used the suturing method because like you they were kept on shavings. They couldn't be kept outside for more than a few hours. All but one of these horses ended up with complications, and ended up having the sutures cut to allow drainage, and were doctored for a LONG time.
I'm sure it differs by vet and geography, around here a "normal" open castration costs around $150 with the call out.
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 8:32 pm:
Diane,
I don't think the suturing method caused the problems, I think the lack of movement because they were stalled most of the time did. When I gelded my other colt( sutured), he had no swelling and no complications, but he went right out in the field and did not come in for two weeks. I did check him, I did not hose him and he did not jog or tow at all.
Well if it cost you $150, it'll probably cost me 10 times as much here. Then again I pay between $8-$12 for a 50-75 lb bale of orchard grass hay.
Rachelle
|
Member:
juliem
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 8:58 pm:
Rachelle, I had a 14 month old colt gelded last Spring. My vet charged $275.00 for an open incision. He doesn't routinely perscribe antibiotics. Crucial in his mind is 20 minutes of extended trotting starting the day after surgery and continuing for two weeks. My colt was too laid back to get the extended part, but I did lunge him at a trot daily, sometimes twice. Keeps the swelling down and drainage good. The vet prefers the field at his clinic and does an open incision. He scrubs the area thoroughly with betadine, wears gloves, uses sterile instruments, etc. His assistant stayed with the colt and monitored his vitals until he was up--about 20 or 30 minutes and then kept him at the clinic for a few more hours.
I had a boarder who's old school vet came and gelded her colt on the ground in his pen with another colt in there! He eared that colt, laid him down, with meds, gelded him (open surgery) and was gone in less than 20 minutes! He only charged her $100.00, but it was a little to "meatball" surgery for me. (Ooops, bad choice of words!) I did take the other colt out--I know he would have pawed the downed guy unmercifully! That vet didn't even give me time to clean the pen, although it was cleaned that morning. Both colts did fine and had no complications.
|
Member:
pattyb
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 - 9:35 pm:
He only charged her $100.00, but it was a little to "meatball" surgery for me. (Ooops, bad choice of words!)  Oh Julie.....that was just too cute for words.
Ziggy was gelded at 6 months out in the grass, no antibiotics other than in a presurgery injection. He did fine on normal turnout with slight swelling, no stitching.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 7:30 am:
Great stories guys, it really shows the range of possibilities with an open castration.
DrO
|
Member:
annes
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 10:51 am:
I've never had a horse gelded but I pay $85 just for the farm call, plus mileage and then whatever is done. I am in TN and it is interesting how the price ranges by geographic area. Years ago the farm call fee was only for emergency calls but now it is every visit no matter how many days in advance I set the appointment.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 1:34 pm:
Hi Ann,
Douglas County, Colorado: My vet charges $50 just to come out, $65 to check out the horse, plus any cost of vaccinations, meds, xrays or whatever.
Lilo
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 6:14 pm:
I guess, I am lucky in the farm fee category, if the vet is already coming to the farm and needs to deal with more than my horse and If I use him on a regular basis, no extra fee. If it is an emergency or if I am the only one he is coming to see than I get the fee. That's one of the good things about being on a training farm with other racehorses, plenty of vets. In my area alone I must have at least ten vets within a 5 mile radius.
Rachelle
|
Member:
dsibley
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 - 8:55 pm:
All of my geldings have had open surgeries. They are done in the arena due to weather, the vet (two different ones) gives antibiotic injection before the procedure, then prescribes at least three 30-minute walks a day. When Darrell, the last one, was done, I was able to multi-task and run a magnet around my new arena to check for any DrOpped nails. We made five full sweeps of the 80 x 200 arena and he healed just fine!
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 29, 2010 - 2:41 pm:
Rachelle the castrations I've been present for have almost always been done in the field and left open, often with other colts in the same turnout which helps keep them moving after. Only had a couple here and there that have swollen and required additional treatment.
You mentioned roping off an area till he is fully awake after the surgery. I'm sure you know this but they can be quite wobbly just coming up from surgery, I would hesitate to put up any barriers that are not solid enough for him to stumble into without problems.
I assume this is your colt with the attitude problems? Hope this settles him down a bit.
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 7:21 pm:
*Update*
Colt was gelded ( sutured) on February 17 ( 11 days ago). Other than my oops of accidentally overdosing him on bute, every thing went very well. Because I did not give him bute after the overdose, he had a slight bit of swelling in the sheath area, but none where the incision was. He had 5 days of antibiotics (SMZ tabs) after the antibiotics ran out. I did treat him for three days with the correct dose of bute. As of today, he looks like he never had anything done to him. He stayed out in the field, no jogging/ towing or hosing. This one went pretty much like the previous one did when I gelded his brother. I am quite happy with the result.
The charge was $300 cash for everything. His attitude is much better. The biting has calmed down, he no longer acts like a rearing striking fool at feed time and he is being much more respectful of everyone. He'll get another week off and then start back into training ( as long as the weather cooperates).
He'll be getting a surprise in a few months ( after all the testosterone leaves his system), since I plan to turn out my race mare with him as a buddy and train them down to the races together.
Rachelle
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 9:28 pm:
Glad everything went well Rachelle Surgery is always a little scary even if it is minor.
I bet he likes his surprise next month! Horses are always happier with a buddy.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 10:56 pm:
Wonderful news, Rachelle!
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 3:41 pm:
Update:
Well its been two months to the day since my colt was gelded and today he got his girlfriend. It turned out to be a non event, a squeal and a few kicks from her and that was it. He didn't even look cross-eyed at her. It was good, I think she'll be a good one to teach him horsy manners. It's been something missing in his life since he was weaned at 4 months old. I am so glad this part is over. Of course I will be checking for bumps and bruises, but It looked to me like she knew exactly where to kick at him to put him in his place without hurting him.
Ok, now we can get down to the business of race training.
Rachelle
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 6:25 pm:
Great news Rachelle! Nothing like a surly mare who knows the ropes to teach a boy a few lessons =)
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 7:37 pm:
I forgot to add above ( because I just remembered it), but today is the colt's real birthday, so I guess the mare is his birthday present.
Another one of my stories: About a mares teaching a boy a lesson.
In fact this story happened on the same farm where my horses are at now about 25 years ago, but under a different farm manager.
One of the other trainers on the farm had a really mean stud horse, very nasty, hard to control. One morning I went into feed and he had escaped from his stall. He was nowhere in the barn. I saw two loose horses in the back behind the barn, but when I went up to them they were both mares. I put them in the barn and went in search of LESTER. Around this time the trainer showed up and got hysterical when she found out the horse was missing and called across the street for her brothers to come and help catch Lester.
By now I had figured out where he was and how the two broodmares escaped out of the broodmare field in the back ( the fence boards were knocked down). All I can say is poor Lester! The mares had done a number on him, they didn't have a scratch on them, but Lester looked like a wreck with a look on his face that said please get me away from these witches.
I had driven my car down to the field, but I forgot to bring a lead shank with me, so instead used a stirrup leather that I pulled off my saddle( yes, I used to ride). He was so glad to get out of there, he walked back to the barn like a pussycat, did not act up at all, didn't yell or scream. The trainer couldn't believe it was the same horse. By the time the brothers came to help Lester was back in his stall, happily( or maybe not) munching hay.
The moral of this story is don't try and mess with a bunch of pregnant ladies, you will get your A-- kicked. .
Lester healed quickly and went on to be a pretty good racehorse, hopefully with better manners after getting his butt kicked.
Rachelle
|
Member:
sdms
|
Posted on Sunday, Apr 18, 2010 - 1:14 am:
Glad to hear your colt is doing well, Rachelle. The story about Lester is great! I was told by an old cowboy a long time ago that the best way to teach a young stud some manners is to turn him out with the broodmares after they were bred. Guess Lester learned that lesson the hard way!
Sara
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Sunday, Apr 18, 2010 - 8:12 am:
Poor Lester.
Are your colts manners getting any better?
I remember one stallion we gelded at the barn, he was just a royal pain to handle. The owners finally had him gelded and while he calmed down, he never did completely turn into a "nice guy" was much better, but still a pain. Not so much with stallion tendencies as far as mares. Just never really trustworthy. I never thought he was "all there" to begin with tho stallion or not.
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Sunday, Apr 18, 2010 - 8:42 am:
Diane,
I am his problem. He does not act the same way with anyone else but me. I decided to let my husband do some of the work with him. His attitude is much better though and since I started towing him with my mare, he has been a gem behind the tow gate. I am curious to see how he acts with me today after spending all day yesterday and last night out with her.
I also had no problem feeding them together last night although I enlisted the help of hubby just to make sure they would not get into it at feed time.
Both get the same amount to eat and eat at about the same pace, so they were both done at approximately the same time and casually strolled over to the two piles of hay and started eating that. No fights and my husband fed this morning and there were no problems. I am curious to find out what happens when she comes into heat, which should be any day now.
Should be interesting
Rachelle
|
Member:
stek
|
Posted on Monday, Apr 19, 2010 - 11:19 am:
Great story Rachelle =)
|
Member:
rtrotter
|
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 10:10 am:
Memorial day update!
I left my colt and the mare together for about 6 weeks, but had to separate them because they were running each other ragged out in the field. I had two close calls with bad scrapes on their back legs, not sure if it was from kicks( thank goodness for plastic shoes), or from getting run into the not so good fences. The mare chased the colt unmercifully and then I caught the colt trying to jump on her head when she was having a roll. In addition, I think there was the beginnings of some separation anxiety that I did not want to see continue. Now they are in adjoining paddocks, they still do everything together except sleep together at night, you might say they have a platonic relationship.
As far as the colts attitude, he is much, much better. Yesterday was his first day in a jog cart in a very long time and he handled it like a pro, a little green but basically very good, of course he had the mare to follow on the tow gate and as long as she kept going right along he was fine.
This morning, my husband DrOve the tow gate and I just jogged along side, he was fine and even showed a little speed when the boogie man waved a branch at him going around the far turn. The colt has got the talent, it just needs to be redirected into doing what he is supposed to do.
Also his ears are up more often then being pinned back with a mean face, his eyes have softened, he is much more willing and he for the most part has stopped his biting. He also is not invading my space as much as he did when he was still a stud.
So far so good, now unto more grown up things like getting to the races.
Rachelle
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 11:42 am:
Glad things are going as well as they can Rachelle, sounds like your boy is going to have an attitude no matter what, but that isn't always a bad thing as long as he can focus it may be a good thing.. Let us know how his first race goes.
|
Member:
vickiann
|
Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 1:56 pm:
This is great news to hear, Rachelle!
|
|
|
