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Discussion on Diva Mare Transition to Barefoot IV
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 9:19 am:
Well Diane, looks like I'll be right there with you with discussions somewhere in the multiples of ten regarding feet.
Diva Mare walked out stiff Friday at noon for turn out. I thought, Great. But the ground was soft on its way to being smeary by the afternoon so I thought she should be out of the dry lot. She was happy all afternoon but there was absolutely no yeehawing it up. Only walk a step or two and graze almost always with the left front forward and the right front underneath her a bit. She walked in ok but still stiff--not quite as stiff as the morning. I figured that was because the ground was softer. I walked her through a 3" snow drift to clean the mud off her feet/pasterns. I looked for bruising and saw none so perhaps it isn't showing up just yet.
Sat AM feeding she is definitely lame in the front but still grouchy enough to jump around and bare her teeth at the geldings. (Why she still does this every day is a mystery to me. They cannot touch her or get her food...nor have they ever been able to take her food.) Anyway I congratulated her on wrecking our "No Bruising" since Dec 7. So perhaps she stepped on a frozen poop ball or just the uneven small stone frozen "waves" in her drylot or, or...
She gave me both front feet, but wasn't real happy to give me the left, so I assume the right is more sore. Sigh. So to the Naproxen I go. 2x a day for three days in hopes of staving off any more inflammation.
She was in the drylot this morning and came in for AM feeding stumping along. Still threw her head around and bared her teeth, but no real jumping at the geldings today. Her eye didn't really show a lot of pain however.
And here I thought we might be out of the woods of the roughest stuff. Trimmer told me last week that I could ride her. Ha.
I have read several times now about "congestion" in the feet. The material stated if a barefoot horse is worked on soft footing for a period of time, then it should be walked for 10-15 minutes on flat, hard surface to "clear the congestion" which may have built up in the foot and to promote better circulation as the foot expands more on flat, hard surface. The material of course was referring to walking a sound horse.
Anyone have an opinion about "congestion"?
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 10:14 am:
Vicki,
Your horses feet may not have anything to do with her soreness. I should say this this opposite way.
Your horses soreness may have to do more with the remodeling of the her skeletal system because her feet are being correctly trimmed. Because of her previous conformational issues everything in her legs has to change, it should all get better with time.
I think your trimmer was right, in that you could probably ride her lightly as long as you did not overdo it. If she is warming out of the stiffness, light riding may help her and might allow her to remodel her skeleton faster.
Rachelle
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 10:41 am:
Congestion as in blood pooling in the hoof from lack of concussion? Or lack of blood? So walking on soft surface to get things "warmed up" followed by work on hard surface to get things moving more? Or the other way around?
Just a fancy way of saying improving circulation?
Where did you read that, I've never heard of that term. Well, maybe I have and don't remember!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 11:25 am:
Angie, ..."Horses that work on soft arena footing can be sore from lack of concussion / circulation. They should be walked 10 minutes on a firm surface before and after the arena work to relieve congestion in the hooves..." from www.barefoothorse.com (on the main page toward the bottom.)
I interpret that to mean blood pooling if the striking of the foot on the ground and expansion of the hoof is responsible for pumping the blood up and out. And also it would seem to "get things moving" is what the site advocates before and after the soft footing work.
Rachelle, I had never thought of anything else being responsible for the stiffness. Perhaps you are correct which would explain why I haven't seen any bruising, yet at least? Hmmm. I thought it was my imagination, but it seemed like her shoulders were the problem...but since sore feet = stiffness in her movement, I brushed away that first quick thought and moved to "it's the feet." One reason I thought of the shoulders was I heard quite a racket against the metal gate after I turned her out. I was back in the barn so I couldn't see, but sometimes she will get wound up at the beginning of her turnout when I return to the barn because she's excited the other horses will be joining her. I thought at the time, as it was soft/smeary, that maybe she slid into the gate if she was zipping around. ? Sometimes she will come into that corner by the gate too fast if she thinks she missing something or the others are coming out.
And then my next mental exercise was to run through feed changes. She did have a little alfalfa this week as the trimmer thought she was a bit thin and it did seem over the next couple of days she looked thinner. And one of the Hafies (believe it or not) looked and felt too thin. So I increased hay rations this past week and added one flake of alfalfa/orchard grass mix two days when it got real cold again at night. She's never had trouble with that hay before so I didn't really think that was it.
So I settled on not ever really knowing for sure of course, but leaning toward stepping on uneven frozen ground or a poop ball. Poop ball seemed more likely given her stupid jumping, humping, hopping in her stall at the geldings even though her stall is cleaned once a day or 2x a day and the stall is heavily bedded in straw. She doesn't act stupid toward the geldings in the drylot just when they come in their stalls, so I figure it's just food related possessive behavior. Anyway, she doesn't get fed until she sweetens up, nickers, and has ears forward.
She was not sore at all after the trimmer. In fact we hand walked the road with no problems. Lameness showed up 9 days after the trimmer.
I hope it is as you say, then really, that would be progress.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 12:00 pm:
HMMM I tend to disagree this time Dealing with a thinned soled beast myself, I gotta say it doesn't take much to sore them up until the sole has thickened quite a bit. Personally I would stay away from the nasids, unless she is terribly sore.
Vicki you are going to experience a lot of ups and downs as you know from my threads BTW I probably have 100 at least in here about Hanks hooves
I do agree with the "congestion" as you call it and now is the time to get her boots on and start walking her on hard ground..(.when her ouchiness goes away) or if she isn't ouchy with the boots on now would be fine..if you are sure it is her feet.
I've thought long and hard about this last episode with Hank... he remains out with no nasids...he is improving...pacing with the other 2 today for breakfast and looked pretty good When he was sore I took him out for hand walks in the yard and getting him moving did help.
95% of the time stiff shoulders are actually hoof problems it just makes it appear as if it is the shoulders from the way they walk.
It's a fine line to tread with a big learning curve and you are doing well!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 12:58 pm:
You may be right Diane. Or you both could be right...
Sure looked like feet when I turned her out a few minutes ago. She came out willing but stiff legged. Seemed like there was some heat in foot. Ground is soft so she is out. It's 40 here. She's walking around but carefully, stiff, and a little jerky from time to time. Pasture is softer than her drylot right now.
I'm off to clean drylots and stalls. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 4:42 pm:
I hope she improves quickly..was there a raised DP in any of the hooves with the heat...if it is just one it is possible an abscess may be brewing also.
One way to tell for sure is put her boots with pads on and see if there is improvement if it is her hooves she should show improvement. Being ouchy on the soft ground is kind of strange as careful as you have been.
Or don't you have hoof testers? Heat and a DP is enough to make me believe something is going on with the hoof/hooves.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 6:58 pm:
Dry ground changing to wet certainly will make many horses tender footed, if climactic conditions have changed.
Moving carefully and looking stiff gets my attention.
Hope nothing is brewing there, but I'm sure that you will monitor this closely and act accordingly.
Let us know how it goes.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 8:46 pm:
Vicki Z, it has gone from frozen to wet, smeary, and muddy this week and I imagine her soles have been wetter than they have been in a few weeks. The straw bedding in her stall helps to dry her feet but as she has been going in and out more to the "dry" (wet!) lot, I imagine her soles were wetter and thus more tender. She's still gimping around, but it looks like the same posture she had when she was footsore after the shoes were removed and the trim too short. And then in night temps everything freezes again and she could have stomped a few frozen poop balls...
She looks pretty content. Just ouchy and not nearly as ouch as she was Dec 7-15.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 - 11:05 pm:
Fluctuating between wet and dry, especially after a fair period of dry, in my experience can cause soft and ouchy feet. Also, such conditions seem to be a perfect set up for bruising or for bacteria to sneak into cracks or defects causing abscesses. This has happened to my horses more than once.
(For prevention, I'm going to try to remember to check my horses feet frequently and pour some Betadine solution into any cracks or defects as we go into our rainy season).
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 11:08 am:
Good idea Vicki Z.
I have tempted fate. I made reservations at Bear Branch horse camp Oct 11-17 at Shawnee Nat'l Forest in southern Illinois. Sure hope we get to go AND stay sound. Sure hope I don't have to cancel, buy another horse, or rent a horse...
Diva mare seemed better today. Yesterday while it was warmish (42) I raked her drylot flat so when it froze over night we could start the day out flat anyway. And a freshly bedded stall.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, Mar 1, 2010 - 4:35 pm:
Glad that Diva Mare seems better and hope that you will make your October ride.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 11:26 am:
I did indeed tempt fate. Diva was still too ouchy for my liking even with naproxen, so on went the gel pads and hoof wraps Monday night 9:30. She was much happier with them on. She said thanks by licking and chewing, then raising her back, and of course the tail lift and wind. Love relaxed horse language. Bit of a struggle getting one on as she was ouchy but we made it. She probably wonders about the handicapped human taking care of her...
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 12:53 pm:
Vicki what type of gel pads and hoof wraps are you using, and do they hold up for turnout too?
Glad to hear Diva is feeling better!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 4:42 pm:
Vicki, Oct. is a long way away
She sounds similar to Sam when he went barefoot quite a few years ago. Well maybe a Hank Sam cross
I rode Sam for 2 years in his old macs, then he was good to go. He went barefoot from then on out. His boots won't fit Hank (old macs). I believe you did get some Old macs or something similar??? I bet she would be fine to ride in them with a pad. If I can get Hanks hoof where it will stay I think I will get some boots for riding, his hoof is still changing too much to trust sizing boots yet I think.
Thin soled beasts do not change their soles quickly it takes time and continued good hoof form.
Being a person of convenience I have always opted for shoes, not that boots are hard to put on, it's just another thing to do... I'm lazy I guess
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 8:27 pm:
Shannon,
https://www.hoofwraps.com/
That's the website for the hoofwraps and gel pads. The wraps come with a stiff black foam pad, but that was too stiff for the Diva, so we then tried the gel pads. Those she liked. I almost heard her say Ahhhhhhh. Easy to put on if your horse stands still... I had a little trouble with one foot as she was super ouchy on the other one, but we made it with help from husband.
It states the wraps will hold up to turn out. She has been in and out all day between the stone lot and her stall. I don't know how they would hold up to really wet or mud sucking pasture.? Someone on here probably has experience with that.
Wish I had milked cows sometime in my life and my hands and fingers would be stronger. It's tough sometimes to pull things tight enough, quick enough before the horse moves her foot!
How long does or has anyone left these wraps on? It's been 24 hours. Should I take them off? Air her feet out? Leave them on another 24?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 8:30 pm:
Diane, sad to say but I haven't figured out how to put the Old Macs on yet. I was worried about the pastern straps rubbing. I asked my trimmer when she was here and she didn't like the boots. I think she likes to use the "gloves"...don't remember. But I asked her to bring some next trip...and fit the Diva.
Sassy Diva was hopping and jumping at the geldings again like she was all that in her Hoof Wrap Slippers. She slid a little on the straw so I suppose she'll break her darn neck next HORSING around.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 8:53 pm:
Well see you will have a thousand dollar boot collection you can't use too. We should have boot give aways for the people transitioning their horses that need them.
I found old Macs to be very simple, if I get Hank some boots that's what I will get again I think..there are a lot of choices. I'm hoping I won't have to get any at all, I think hubby would kill me if he found out! Hidey hole is plumb full of them.
You will get very quick at wrapping hooves with practice....believe me
I got a couple months out of the quick wraps with turnout, it really depends on the ground. I took Hanks off at night when he was on the deep bedding and put them on during the day when he was out.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 9:03 pm:
Maybe we could have a library of boots and loan them.
How about the pastern strap on the Old Macs? Did you make it pretty darn snug or loose enough to slide a credit card under? I worry about it rubbing, chafing, sigh.
Do you wrap your hooves while holding the hoof or put the wrap/pad on the ground and place the hoof on the pad? The place the hoof on the pad was a bit of trial and error on the side she didn't want to pick up as the other side was the sorest...?
I just went out and gave the late night hay and it looks like the wraps are a wee bit twisted on her foot but not loose. She has been moving around a lot today in and out and her usual antics with the geldings.
I will definitely buy the Hoof Wraps/Gel Pads again. It might have been you Diane who originally told me about them. Whomever it was, thanks! They are serving the purpose for Diva soles.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 9:22 pm:
Did not you read the instructions You are suppose to be able to get a finger between the strap and the pastern, I just stuck my finger there and tightened them down, it all take practice. I can put them on in a few seconds now. you are suppose to have a "get use to" period so as to prevent heel bulb rubs. I rode Sam for hours at a time in them and had no problems whatso ever... what size are they? are they the originals or G2's.
When I got Hanks g2's I think they are a size 8 how scary is that!!! I think he would take a 3 now, he has lost a lot of hoof over the last 2 years (thankfully) too bad it wasn't done right!
I wrap while holding the hoof.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 9:37 pm:
Vicki, you can use an athletic sock with the toe cut out as a sort of "gaiter" to help with the rubbing. I also just took a couple of wraps with vet wrap on the pasterns (not too tight) and that worked well.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 2, 2010 - 10:59 pm:
Interesting product.
Those wraps look very handy for use after abscesses have been dug out.
And the price is right.
They look like they would be good to have on hand for emergencies.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 7:32 am:
Vicki if you can get those hoof wraps on, old macs should be a breeze
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 9:48 am:
You may be right Diane!
Well, today the saddle fitter is arriving and she travels with an equine massage therapist. 
So Diva Mare will get herself all massaged up and then the saddle fitter will check out my two and see about a trail saddle she carries.
Meleta Brown lives in northern Indiana and does fittings and fitting clinics now in her semi retirement. Crates has her Meleta Brown Freedom Series which includes a trail saddle. So, she's close. Must be smart enough that a saddle maker picks up her saddle tree design and she was going to be in the area today by chance which is lucky for me as her next fitting clinic is in Michigan.
So Diva mare will be standing on her gel pads or her in her Old Mac boots for her primping and fitting today.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 10:32 am:
Thanks for the info Vicki, those do look useful to keep around 'just in case'! Hope your fitting goes well too...
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 7:36 pm:
Well, they called at 6 pm and canceled. bummer. I was primed to buy a saddle too. ;)
Took the wraps/pads off. feet were dry. used thrushbuster on soles and keratex on the outside hoof wall and put her back in her stall/drylot barefoot. We'll see how Diva handles that.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 7:45 pm:
Julie, I've been digging through the random socks box in the laundry room looking for a nice tube sock to cut up. Diva would look good in some circa 1975 tube socks.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 8:18 pm:
https://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/perfecthoofwear/index.html#HowItWorks
Anybody had any experience with this product?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 8:36 pm:
UMMMM Vicki you have not been paying attention It has been mentioned many times, Rachelle has used it. It is becoming very popular from what I read.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 8:40 pm:
I thought that was the stuff Rachelle was using but didn't she modify it somehow? I have too many pieces of information floating around in my head.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 3, 2010 - 8:56 pm:
Vicki,
I have lots of experience with it, I use it as part of my shoe/Hoofwear combo so I don't have to nail on shoes. I have also used it to rehab horses. Once you put it on it can stay on up to six weeks.
Your trimmer does the right kind of trim to use this properly, you may want to ask her if she's had any experience applying it. Its pretty easy but you have to get the timing right. It's just like putting on vet wrap and it molds to the foot.
I know they have a new version of it that does not require any glue, uses surgical screws instead. The new version solved one of my problems because you can wrap lower on the heel bulbs, so it will not rub.
My trimmer gave me a DVD to watch the application.
I have modified how much I use so I can get two or three hooves out of one roll.
I felt there was too much material at the toe and that was compromising my break over. So, now I use as many wraps as I need to cover the entire foot and stop.
Let me know if you have any questions you need answered.
Rachelle
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 4, 2010 - 8:08 pm:
Thanks Rachelle. I only can absorb so much... I'll be a beat or two behind everybody else for some time yet I think with my learning curve and attention span.
Miss Diva was pad/wrapless last night and today. So the pads/wraps were on about 40 hours. She is far less gimpy and no head bobs, but still walking short. Still Keratexing the outside and painting the soles with Thrushbuster.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 7, 2010 - 6:00 pm:
Still walking short and stiff. Diva had turn out today and yesterday for several hours in a small grassy space. She had room to run a few strides and buck a couple of times. Ground is soft on top about and inch or so and still frozen underneath. Today we had some rain to further soften it. On concrete she walks as if she is on glass or ice. It's interesting to me that she is so "sole soft" but yet she will allow me to dig the mud out of her foot and use a stiff metal brush to clean off the mud cakes and dirt? And it takes a bit of pressure to get rid of clay pack! Hmmmm.
Seems to me in 16-18 days she has significantly remodeled her right hind--for the worse perhaps as she is weighting the hinds more because her front is sore? The frog is laying over to the inside more and of course the foot is out of balance. I wonder if I should call the trimmer.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 7, 2010 - 6:48 pm:
HMMMM what set off this soreness, I don't remember?
Does she have any elevated pulses? Is she stiff and short in her stall? Next time you clean her hooves take the hoof pick and bang it a little on her sole at her toe and see if you get a reaction. Hank is still sore on hard ground, but he does have soggy soles going on, they don't feel as soft as they can get tho. Don't give to thumb pressure...they used to about 9 mos. GO..That was kind of scary.
I just did the mud pack clean out too, it was like digging through cement!! No cringing from anyone. The mud pack itself could be causing problems...kind of like snow balls putting pressure on the sole.. I was actually impressed old Flat foot was able to hold mud
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 8:12 am:
Diane, Diva mare soles have given to thumb pressure when dry, in the past but not as much now which is an improvement but still unacceptable.
When wet, they give which is what started this 10 day ouchy time. She isn't ouchy in the stall but I think she is more cautious when it's cold now, just in case there is a frozen poop ball hiding in the straw.
I def think mud pack can be like an ice ball. Clay pack is like concrete peanut butter to remove. She has her feet cleaned routinely. She walks super stiff and short on concrete.
When she was stiff in the stall is when the naproxen and the gel pads went on. She had been on the stone lot enough I guess to get sore or the poop balls... She hasn't had any naproxen since last Wed am and the wraps came off last wed pm.
I tend to think it's the Diva soles.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 8:35 am:
Vicki I feel for you she is going to give you a rough time with this, she sounds much like Hank. A never ending battle it seems
I am just hoping the improved hoof form will help thicken the soles...In theory it should . Thin, giving soles have proved to be my biggest, continuous challenge with Hank. I don't know if they are fixable, but can't say we aren't giving it our all!
I admire your patience
I think I am going to have Hank x-rayed again when we do spring shots to see where his coffin bone is and if there is any improvement in sole thickness. The flare has really gone from his toe so I am hopeful anyway things are going in the right direction.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 12:06 pm:
It will be a never ending battle it seems. However, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for a year and will take the time it takes to pamper, boot, et al. She has been shod her whole "riding" life and only without shoes in the winter with her previous owner. So no wonder the sole hasn't thickened and is soft. 3 months a year isn't enough time AND she was primarily ridden on Western Arena Footing indoor and outdoor. Not that much trail riding and she was always shod when she was on the trail or in a parade.
It has to feel better overall to get her hoof form in better shape and balance even if she is soft.
The nail holes are almost grown out. I would HATE to see nail holes again. So if we never get to barefoot with confidence, I'll try the glue ons, boots, etc...
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 12:11 pm:
Soundness when walking across concrete is a really good test.
My old guy who had been off and on lame for years, diagnosed with "thin soles, under-run heels" and even navicular, finally became sound on it when his feet were properly balanced, had regained a larger size (more foot!) with his heels gradually taken down so that they normalized rather than contracting inward and running under.
Good luck with the Diva.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 12:23 pm:
Thanks Vicki Z, we can use some luck. If she can't be rehabbed in the hoof environment I have, then I don't think she can anywhere there are 4 seasons. There is no mud ever in her drylot or stall.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 8:01 pm:
Here's one for you ladies. My trimmer said perhaps some of Diva's ouchiness in the front is because she may be "decontracting". I suppose as the hoof remodels itself it could become tender, couldn't it?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 8:42 pm:
I wouldn't think so, at least not to the degree you describe. I think you are just going through a "set back" it doesn't take much with these types... I kind of giggled at that Of course JMHO and maybe I shouldn't giggle just one of those days.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Mar 8, 2010 - 9:36 pm:
When I read it in the email she sent, I have to admit I snorted and said, "Right..." But what do I know.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 10:30 am:
Vicki,
With all due respect to your trimmer I can't buy that.
If your horse is sore as a result of something that the trimmer did, the responsibility for that lies with the trimmer.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 11:05 am:
She wasn't sore after the trimmer. She was happy as a clam. She got sore 10 days later after wet/mud softened those Diva soles and perhaps she stepped on frozen poop ball or a stone the wrong way. Thankfully with the trimmer she has never been sore after a trim--only after the farriers...
I think it may be as Diane suggested. Just the ebb and flow of transition with soft thin soles and the weather and foot environment variables.
However, Vicki Z, I thought decontracting was strange, but then I also remembered what Rachelle suggested about Diva's bony column, muscles, etc. that may be "remodeling" to a degree now that her foot is remodeling and her way of going is changing a bit. So perhaps my vocabulary is not is as succinct or articulate, but it makes a little sense to me that as feet change, so does everything else and perhaps some "two steps forward, one step back" will happen from time to time for multiple reasons? Or, it could be a chicken bones thing. (Ask Angie if you don't remember the chicken bones. LOL)
But. Some good news. Miss Diva's soles looked good this morning. After a good stiff metal brushing, some Thrushbuster (for the hardening properties and maybe prevention of softening with this wet ground...?), we went for a short hand walk carefully down the muddy gravel drive with no resistance with only a few wide eyed stumbles and onto the pavement. She walked quite nicely on the pavement with a confident, heel first landing. She felt sassy enough to rubber neck a little rather than watch the ground like she did on the gravel. We only walked a half mile although I need to check the distance w/ my odometer to double check. I checked the feet, no rocks, and she was turned out into a small somewhat muddy grass area with not a whole lot of room to tear around like a nut slipping and sliding. It's supposed to rain the next several days so I'm trying to squeeze all the grassy area time in I can!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 2:07 pm:
Sorry, Vicki,
Guess that I got the trimmer and farriers mixed up in my mind.
No question that outdoor conditions can make a horse sore and that remodeling is very likely going on for your horse.
It seems that you are very dedicated to making continuing progress and that is a very important element in the healing process.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 2:34 pm:
Vicki Z, I wonder where the fine line is among dedicated/OCD/Paranoid/Know Just Enough To Be Dangerous...because I seem to have a little of all of the above! I really appreciate the HA members giving me their insights and knowledge so I can stay somewhere between sane and all of the above.
I just brought her in from the grassy area as the rain is threatening. She was polite and didn't roll in the mud for a change. Cleaned the clay pack from her feet. The pack at the toe does bother her on concrete as I have to do a little cleaning on each front 3 or 4 times back and forth. Fresh bedding and back to the stall/dry lot she goes with some hay.
I built my whole day around her today which hasn't happened for a long, long time. She got plenty of attention.
And Diane, I got the Rider's Rasp out. I hope you were sitting down when you read that and didn't have coffee in your mouth.
I took a wee bit off the right hind medial side. It seemed to me as I was walking backwards in front of her on the road that she was putting more weight on the lateral side of the right hind and perhaps reaching under slightly to the inside. She didn't appear to be doing the same on the left hind. It looked like the medial side was higher than the lateral so wouldn't that make sense...she's wearing the lateral more as she is weighting it more, so the medial isn't self-trimming as much so it is a wee bit longer? Looked like that anyway.
What is it called if a horse "toes in or out" on the hinds at the walk? Is it called pidgeoned toed if it's the hinds--assuming the foot is balanced? Something else to look up.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 4:43 pm:
Cow hocked?? Did the RR even her out? I got a new computer so have to be careful not to spit on it (for awhile anyway)
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 7:41 pm:
Vicki,
I can relate to where you are coming from.
This site does help to keep me grounded and Dr. O's instructions from time to time prevent wild tangents by my overactive brain!
It does sound like you need to do some more balancing!
A rasp should lie flat across the bottom of the foot. It is not possible to "eyeball" levelness.
If the feet are balanced and the horse is moving comfortably, don't worry about the toeing in or out and don't try to correct it.
Farriers who tried to correct toeing in on my old guy made his condition and way of going very bad.
My Arabs toe out somewhat in the hind, and Lance especially on his right rear as that leg has always been slightly crooked plus he has a very old injury.
Nobody can keep up with him though, and he moves smoothly and beautifully.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 9, 2010 - 10:01 pm:
I dug out my binder with conformation info/diagrams Diane. Cow hocked rings a bell.
I was wondering Vicki Z if the hind landing further "inside" was the result of a conformation issue or the result of the hind not being balanced (or both). It is not balanced. There is more width from frog to lateral side than there is from frog to medial side when looking at the bottom of the foot. The frog is laying over toward the medial side some. So, I am wondering if her way of going will be more correct if/when she is balanced or whether it may just be "her way" of going.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 - 8:28 am:
Is she a bit cow hocked?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 - 1:19 pm:
Cow Hocked would toe outside. Bow legged in the hind would toe in. I'll look closely today. I don't think so.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 - 12:42 pm:
Darling Diva had bucking snorting turn out Wed in soft grassy/mud area. Not sloppy mud. Just a bit slippery mud. Spongey mud. Concrete is still a cautious endeavor. Gravel requires one's muzzle to be almost on the ground.
Did some more reading on Ramey's site per Diane's suggestion about collateral grooves and their tell tale marker status as to the depth of the sole. It is starting to make more sense as the illumination of comprehension is starting to dawn. Sheesh. Diva is lucky I used to be a school teacher and no longer have a classroom.
For the first time in my life, I have horses who are too thin. This last batch of grass hay must have been nutrient deficient. Of course, the one Haflinger Hoover isn't too thin. But. Putting weight on isn't that difficult around here. I'd rather see a few ribs than see bellies swinging...
Diva and I will hit the road again today for awhile.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 - 2:42 pm:
Vicki, Hanks nose was dragging when he walked on the frozen ground, it looked like he was trying to watch where he was walking. I still don't know if he could handle that stuff...we are finally thawed out. He is doing well on gravel and pavement tho.
I wish I could see some ribs...especially on Hank...the other 2 aren't too bad. I wonder if he doesn't have a little halflinger in him
I got brave yesterday and took hoof knife in hand, gees you think a rasp is difficult, got his bars straightened out a little, more to go
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