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Discussion on My first trim
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 18, 2010 - 6:45 am:
In a way it is a follow up on Trush 2.
With riders rasp very little came off . Now I have rasp and two knifes and hope I'll be able to do a decent job slowly .
Here are hoofs of Violino before my serious attempt of trimming him myself.
His frogs are bad, specially at the front .
      
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 18, 2010 - 6:50 pm:
Anna I don't quite get what your pictures are or if you have questions??? Are they ALL before your trim OR is there some afters.?
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Friday, Mar 19, 2010 - 5:50 pm:
Diane, this is Violino, BEFORE I 've been trimming him today.I want it as a baseline,to see if he improves or if he is worse off, after my efforts.
I must say, I find it very difficult . Specially to do the frog - I am only trying to get off loose pieces .
My instruments are very sharp, ( from Dick in Germany) and I am afraid to injure him or cut off my own finger ......
My brain is not so sharp . I think I know the theory but when it comes to apply it - that is different .
Violino is fidgeting, not keeping his legs still. I am trying to use my provisional hoof stand , but he just keeps pulling his hoofs down. I do try to find a comfortable position for him, but it doesn't seems to work.
I'll post pictures tomorrow - and then please - would you give me some of your opinions then.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Mar 19, 2010 - 6:59 pm:
All I can say is you are much braver than I.. I still am "practicing" with the knife before I try to do too much. YES much easier to watch than do!
Good Luck
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 10:38 am:
Anna,
My horses had to learn TONS of patience when I first started trimming. I had a home made hoof stand, and I ended up with lots of bruised knees, and legs, and cuts. (Please wear gloves!)
Try doing things with his leg in different positions without trying to trim, or anything. He's maybe picking up on your anxiety; or at least on the fact you may be trying to remember so much! Make it nice for him. Like stretch his front leg out in a nice stretch, with lots of praise. Find itchy spots under his belly and around the dock of his tail when you have the hind hoof up.
Every horses likes their legs in different positions. My older mare likes hers lower both front and hinds, me kneeling for the hinds. My other mare "leans" and fidgets more, so I have the hoof-it higher for her. If you can't adjust your hoof stand, try just using a bale of hay. I used to rest the hoofs on me while I sat on a bale.
Make sure he's standing correctly to balance himself for holding one foot up.
Also I used to wear my helmet when trimming! Besides the frustrataion of keeping the hoof where I needed it to be, my patience wearing thin, I was also crawling all over taking pictures!
It used to be over an hour per horse for me. Don't worry if you can only do a bit at a time. Unless you are making drastic changes, which I don't think you need to, it will be fine to do one hoof today, one tomorrow, etc.
I think all you need to do for now is just spend time getting the horse comfy, and put the bevel on the hoof wall. Unless you have thrush in a frog, don't worry about carving on it! If you gouge it all up, you might be setting it up to get thrush with fresh openings.
You got Ramey's DVD's correct? Don't know about you, but I thought he was lacking on safety tips when trimming. Unless I missed it.
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 20, 2010 - 1:23 pm:
Diane and Angie, thank you for your reply .
I am using the knife only to get rid of the loose flaps . I don't dare to cut into the frogs - they are callused but they have some serious "overhangs ". I'd like to get them open, so the dirt doesn't stick there .
I do have gloves .
My stand is a car jack and I use it sometimes. I do try to find comfortable position for each foot . Strangely both of my horses don't like to put their legs forward . I must get them used to that .
I am going to buy knee guards to be able to kneel (will try).
Angie, I've seen the Hoof it jack and the PC LaPiere jack . Both are interesting .
In a way I am glad to hear your problems/conditioning of the horses during this work . I thought I am a dummy . I do try not to loose patience and praise them .
Yes I do one horse at a time and am completely exhausted (my back).
White line / water line - would you please indicate on my hoofs
where they are ?
I am afraid to bevel more and even more afraid to shorten the toe/to do four point trim .
No, PR doesn't mention any precautions while working .
Does anybody know the difference of trimming between Pete Ramey and PC La Piere ? Any opinions ?
    
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 8:21 pm:
I don't know much about PC. I do think he made some comment about his hoof stand being designed so that it eliminates any vibration when rasping the hoof. I like the Hoof-It because I think the rubber cradle on it also is good against vibration. I've had mine a couple of years now, it's good as new except for dirt and some meds/hoof stuff on it. I know people that bought the Hoof-JACK end up only using the cradle because you have to take that off to put the post part on. The Hoof-It you don't have to take apart. Most farriers around here have the Hoof Jack if they have a good stand, and they have to replace the strap in it.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 - 9:08 pm:
Anna-Marie,
This is from another of my threads, but it explains a little bit about the difference between Pete Ramey and KC La pierre. I use a K.C La Pierre DAEP certified trimmer and have for 3 + years. K.C. Has A Ph.D and has written and done quite a few studies on the form and function of equine hooves.
"As far as the differences between Pete Ramey and KC La Pierre. Pete goes for shape and look of the wild horse hoof and KC goes for form and function for performance horses. Performance horses are used differently and are not wild horses whose environment shaped their feet. Although environment plays a big part in a performance horses feet, most are not in the best environment for good feet.
KC explains it much better than I do and there are a lot of articles on the website with lots of information. I also think another difference is the structures that are used to balance a horses feet, although in general a properly balanced foot should be the same no matter what structures one uses to balance it."
Rachelle
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2010 - 6:57 pm:
Angie, Hoof it stand is very nice - it has the Post - which KC La Piere doesn't have . One doesn't use the post so much - .
Thanks Rachelle - I found LaPiere. htto://www.aepsupplies.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=21583&pid=330563
hhtp://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/iaep/index.htp.html
There is his hoof jack too.
Angie, can you tell me how much does your hoof it weighs ?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Mar 22, 2010 - 8:59 pm:
Most online sites list FOB weight as 16 pounds; I don't think it weighs that much, but it might. It's tough plastic like material, aluminium, and rubber.
One of the reviewers at Jeffers Equine said they didn't like it because the post got in the way if you tried to lower the cradle as low as possible. I don't find that to be a problem. You are correct in that the post don't get used. I just bring the foot forward on the cradle part. It all comes apart really easy. Every so often I pull both parts out, dump it all, and slide it back together, and tighten. Very easy to clean and use. And very tough, it's went sailing more than once.
I do sometimes rasp the aluminium edge of the cradle on the Hoof-It.
I don't know how sturdy KC's version is having never seen one in person. I am sure either one would work. I like how mine has like "fins" to help steady it with my foot on it.
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 23, 2010 - 10:32 am:
Angie, if you go on the pages KC above, you'll see all his products. His hoof knife is very interesting .
His jack weight is 8.25 pounds, costs 165 English P. Is made of aluminium and rubber. He claims, you cannot rasp edge off as the cradle is made of rubber !? On his pic. looks like the whole cradle is out of rubber .
Hoof - it costs 178 E.P..
Both obtainable in England.
FROG. KC has a nice photo of a hoof - shows his trimming of the frog is different to P.Ramey .
Rachelle, am I right ? I've noticed the same trim in your photo on your Discussion .
I am afraid to trim the callous. If you look at Violino last photos, his frogs at the heel are concave ( even more so if you feel it). Dirt sticks there and the wall with the sulcus (middle of the frog) is very thin. Should I cut it or not ?
There is no angle between the bar and frog - just straight down to collateral groove . Hard to explain - and I cannot paint
on the photos .
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 25, 2010 - 3:31 pm:
Violino , here is what I meant above . 
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 25, 2010 - 3:38 pm:
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 6:06 am:
It is fundamental lack of seeing/knowledge .
PLEASE indicate on one/any of my pictures the WATER LINE.
I am confused reading it/seeing it - wall, waterline,white/yellow line.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 29, 2010 - 7:07 am:
Anna it's hard to tell on your pics they aren't close up enough. We did show you in Hanks part 10 where they were if you scroll about half way down that thread
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 12:43 am:
Diane, look at Anna's March 20 pictures of the hinds. Isn't the waterline (white) very visible with a small portion of hoof wall outside?
And the whiteline (yellow) is dirty line inside of pretty waterline?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 12:45 am:
And do the March 25 photos show a real nice depth of the collateral groove at the back and at the apex of the frog? (lucky anna)
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 12:50 am:
Now, how does one go about trimming that right front so he doesn't toe out so much as shown in the picture posted on March 18 (at the beginning)?
Thanks Anna Marie for letting me use your pictures!
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 5:48 am:
Diane, I did scroll and I do KNOW the theory .
But the water line in Violino seems to be So wide !?
Vicky, yes good depth of collateral grooves BUT, I really worry about the frogs and nobody comments on that .
I am really struggling . - poor horse .
Vicky, you can use any pictures at any time, - but it is very difficult to take them by myself .......
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 5:58 am:
Anna I hope I am corrected if wrong, but the water line being wider than the whitline is good
What is your worry about the frogs?
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 5:59 am:
Yes, the right front toe is HIS wear. I didn't touch it. I think he is toe walking.
I am trying to shorten his walls at the quaters slowly.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 7:14 am:
Vicki, you are getting very good at pictures I need more views than that to form an opinion and then it's hard!!!
For the sake of learning I will take a shot at what is available .
I'll just pick out the RF
Is his heels uneven and long? They almost look a little contracted?
Toe is long which leads to "toe landing" (usually)
Flare close to where the R is demonstrated by a bit of a stretched WL? Which would give an appearance of pigeon toed??
Can't tell much about wall height in these pics.
Just guesses on my part Anna I'm so used to looking at Hanks deformed hoof, yours looks pretty good
Angie is in Fla. so maybe Rachelle or someone else will comment.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 5:20 pm:
Can a foot have only one side contracted?
Seems like the left side of the RF frog, on the solar view photo Diane marked on, looks "pinched" to me. The heels look uneven to me also with the left side longer--the picture makes it look like the heel wall/seat of the corn is hitting the ground before the frog and digital cushion? Or am I seeing things? It looks like the white (yellow) line is a bit stretched on the left side. There is way more foot on the left side of the frog--which is lateral imbalance? But amazingly, I look at the toe wear, where the waterline thins to almost nothing, and the wear pattern doesn't look slanted--not toeing in nor toeing out. How can that be? Does that mean it's just flare and not a toe in/out problem?
Maybe the March 18 frontal view just makes him look goofy? Maybe he was standing a little goofy?
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 1:42 am:
Diane, I didn't know , that wide water line is good. Thanks !
Vicky, he is standing badly (March 18) - also, the ground is sloping there .
Good observation - RF , there is more foot on the left side of the frog. I'll check again .
Diane, I'll try more and better view photos.
As for Hank - you are doing great - and If I don't get my work right, all damage my horses .
I am worried to shorten/roll the toe more , as the sole is even with the wall .
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 3:51 am:
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Apr 5, 2010 - 6:54 am:
Anna, you can't get the toe and the heel where you want it overnight it takes time. The one thing that really jumps out in this pic is how much wider the left side is than the right. Hard to tell but it appears the WL is stretched there so you have a flare on the left side?
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Member:
npo33901
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2010 - 3:50 am:
Diane, thanks for noticing it. The way the photo is taken makes it look worse than it is. But it is as you say and I think all his soles are slightly narrower on the inside of the frog.
I am going to work on him today .
His frogs are definately infected - bad.
His heel is also little uneven .
You think good hoofs, I think it is hell to get it right .......
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