HorseAdvice.com Equine & Horse Advice: Hoof Critique 12... SOOO close yet SOOO far away

Horseadvice.com

Site Menu:

Horseadvice.com

Join Us!

Horse Care

Equine Diseases

Training and Behavior

Reproduction

Medications

Reference Material

This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:

HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Hoof Care, Hoof Trimming, Shoeing Horses » The 4 Point or Natural Trim »

	Discussion on Hoof Critique 12... SOOO close yet SOOO far away
Author	Message
Member: scooter	Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 9:48 pm: Sorry guys and Dr.O. I tried to restrain myself Hank is doing so very good, honestly he hasn't been this sound barefoot.. EVER... even before he foundered. He needed shoes before he foundered because he couldn't tolerate hard ground...even with the GOOD barefoot guy. YET his hoof is SOOOO ugly I think I am making it worse! How can he be so sound, I don't want to screw this up...but I may be getting to that point because I am utterly confused by his hoof. The right one isn't too bad, but this left one with the blob and the flares that will not go away are killing me. I rasp them down and think OH that looks pretty good (far from perfect but better) and in 2-3 days SPLAT they're back... is that even possible... I think the blob has something to do with that outside flare because his WL is all wonky there. BUT the blob is getting better and I have gotten rid of the associated crack.... UGLY UGLY I'm going to take the knife and make that crooked frog straight!!! That would help me mentally I think LOL. HELP Please! I didn't get a very good pic straight on BUT look the blob crack is goneThat's been there for 3 years! What the heck is going on here????
Member: scooter	Posted on Tuesday, Mar 30, 2010 - 9:53 pm: PS I DID lay on the ground for the lateral
Member: cheryl	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 9:53 am: Diane - what's happening with Hank is the same thing I'm seeing with Fox - and now Robbers too - the front maybe 1/4 of the hoof is on the sole - the wall doesn't look like it reaches the ground - Fox's white line has closed up considerably but the toe area just looks all wrong to me and I don't know why - at the same time - she is totally sound - running - actually dead out run - bucking - kicking - coming from spongy clay to screanings - no sign of soreness at all. It just looks all wrong.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 12:09 pm: Cheryl I am actually happy(pretty much) with the toe area, he is not on his sole like when the farrier trims him. This is what keeps abducting forces off the toe and allows the WL to tighten up. They are moved back to so that most of the weight bearing is at the heel, which my lateral shows...that is good too. His crazy heel is what has me confused, I can see otherwise what I need to do. This will help you see what I am talking about...Farriers trim. see how the sole is actually weight bearing at the toe. Protruding BEYOND the wall..that is what makes him VERY sore. If you scroll up to my same views above...he is not weight bearing on his sole, I have beveled/rockered it so as to take the forces off the WL... may not be pretty but it does serve the purpose.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 6:58 pm: I had another epiphany tonight while doing dishes. . I was thinking about my ride on Hank today, what a different horse he is under saddle, and then landed on the ugly hooves in my thoughts. Actually after looking at them closely again and fixing some of the things that looked off in the pictures (other than the confounding heel) In person his hooves look really good (comparatively speaking anyway) He can walk/trot on the septic rock driveway going to the arena. He can walk a long ways on the black top with out tippy toeing or trying to sidle me onto the grassy side of the road.(CLIP CLOP). He is fine in the limestone arena at all gaits(his awesome canter is getting better and better), and since it has dried up, our hard clay ground and the fields I ride in are almost as bad as the peaked ice...he tolerates it all very well! The epiphany part... Guy and his Spectrum of Usability... Hank has reached MY spectrum of usability, he is 100% on all surfaces I ride on. I don't believe I could take him on a long ride down a gravel rd..... but guess what I don't ride on gravel roads much except to cross them or go a short ways to another field (in which he is fine) I think I paniced searching for rock crunching hooves...in reality he don't need rock crushers. I have reached my goal and very early at that, thanks to all your help. He came through the winter sound and not bruised (except the farriers trim) and he can be rode (soundly) on all the terrains I ride on, and he is sound in his environment and VERY happy! I love epiphanys( and Rachelle I know you have been trying to tell me this!) some things sink in slowly! . I am going to continue my search for the perfect Hank hoof tho...wherever that may take us! Hopefully to even heels and a straight frog someday
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 9:17 pm: Diane, I love epiphanies! Here comes another one. If you look at Hanks foot where you circled his heels in red, look at the toe on the left side. It sticks out much further then the right side( It almost looks squared because of the point). That makes the left side longer and moves the heel forward and not back where it should be. That is also what's making the frog appear to be laying over to the left side. If you round off that point and took a few swipes with the rasp at the heel and finished the foot( take the rasp and horizontally rasp the entire foot right where the bevel is. I think you would get what you were aiming for.
Member: kpaint	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 9:33 pm: I'm with you Diane--spectrum of usability--I don't ride on gravel roads either. However our farm drives are all gravel. I did think ahead and leave myself a grass route to exit the farm--other than lawn that is. Good for you and Hank.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 9:44 pm: Thanks Rachelle...I did that tonight! I am learning I have been working so hard on the right side because it was the side that was so flared and sticking out.. I must have not been paying attention to the left side, now it is the crazy side! SOOO straightening that out will bring the heel back??? I hope so. Does the right side of his heel look about right? That is what I am not so sure of. The funny thing is his RF doesn't do this crazy flaring at the toe, I still think the blob and the "damaged" WL associated with it is part of the problem, I think it may be going to be a hard fix, unless I can win the battle of the blob! and I am determined to! Thanks!!!!
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 10:19 pm: Diane, I am not sure you are ever going to get rid of that blob. I've been thinking about Dr.O's theory on why that blob is there and I kinda agree with it. I think of it as scar tissue probably from one of Hanks' abscesses and I do not think it will go away, but I don't think it will bother him either as long as you keep the rest of his foot under control. I sort of have a blob under my thumbnail. I slammed my finger in a car door when I was about 14, I lost the nail and had no nail for quite sometime. When the nail finally grew in, it did not grow in normally because of the damage to the nailbed, but it does not bother me, it just looks funky. I think thats what you have with Hank's blob. I don't think I'd worry about it too much and I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It is what it is. His feet have come so far its amazing! Rachelle
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Mar 31, 2010 - 10:44 pm: Thanks Rachelle, the blob don't bother me per se, the results of the blob is ,making this hoof hard to keep under control, I KNOW this sounds crazy but his WL is trying to take a detour again, right where it comes off the blob and just on the right side. I think the blob was caused by shoeing, setting the shoe back and dubbing his toe. The farrier never used to route out the toe until I told him to. Hank had sole contact with the shoe at the toe 3 times that I remember and he was VERY VERY lame. He never had an abscess there that I am aware of. I think this was the birth of the blob, it showed up shortly after this. That poor horse I am so glad he is finally comfortable. May 2007
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 3, 2010 - 6:36 pm: Ok so I have straightened out the left side to the best of my ability for now. I think I am getting the heels leveler, I tell ya, I have crooked eyes or something, and then as looking at my job today, yet another epiphany, this isn't a good one tho!!! But has been right in front of my nose from the beginning. 1st I want to interject that computer whiz son is home, I was complaining about how the Paint program made my pictures a bigger KB after I drew on them and would have to resize all over... drives me nuts! He downloaded https://www.paint.net/ for me and OMG is it easy!!!! you just slide the little thing to resize to killobyes you want after you paint on it.. no guessing...it's great for the computer illiterate like me!! Back to my newest epiphany, as I was looking at the photos from today I finally saw it..what to do tho??? This has been in front of my nose for quite some time.. I just realized how his whole sole goes left I can't get an attachment of the WL there. I work on it a couple times a week (really). It LOOKS as if his wall is high there but it's not.. it is just about level with the sole, what you see is the stretched WL making it appear that way His left side is doing well as far as flare. This one is not very cooperative! How should this be approached? I'm not making much headway with it. I bevel right into the stretched part, but that gets me nowhere.. I can't remove anymore wall or he will be on his sole there. Is this just a matter of patience for the impatient?? OR is it something that should be gone right away?? IF Collateral Groove measurement IS an indication of sole thickness we are really finally getting some... he has NEVER had CG depth at the appex of the frog and as you can see from the pic above we have it now! Maybe that's why he clip clops now? And just for you entertainment... this is from last week, when I looked at the pic I about fainted, a bit uneven GEEES. This is not as easy as it looks!!! Yet anyway. Today I attempted to even him up a little better... improved...but Now his heels appear to be better with this last rasping, his hairline looks good?? the heels are moved back a little better??? IF I am correct his angles are better? I DID lay on the ground and he was pretty square and standing evenly weighted. I really am not frustrated... just stuck not knowing what to do, he is quite sound but, I would love to get rid of that flare on the Rt. side Somehow!!
Member: scooter	Posted on Tuesday, Apr 6, 2010 - 9:01 pm: Dr.O. or anyone that may know... that crooked frog of Hanks is strange it is very loose and underneath is like a growth of a new frog (not attached) to the old frog...the "new frog" is straight as an arrow... is this him shedding his frog and the one growing underneath is the new one??? New Frog??? outlined in black he did exfoliate some sole. this ugly hoof marched right down a mile long gravel lane today!!!! With me riding him.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 6:53 am: If the frog is loose, I'd trim it off. His angles look better, but is he still standing under himself? Off course his feet are under him, lol! Sorry, no coffee yet, that struck me as funny. There is still room for improvement (always is!) but you're doing a good job. Keep up with beveling and a bit of patience and you'll see more changes. I think you scooped his quarters nicely. I might take another sweep at his heels if it were me. Remember, form and function before beauty! He don't have ugly hoofs, he has hoofs that are a work in progress.
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:06 am: Diane, That frog is telling me that whatever you are doing its working and for him to be marching down a gravel driveway, well that says it all! Rachelle
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:12 am: Thanks Angie, welcome back hope you had fun in Fla. The frog is loose as far as the circle goes in my pic. The new frog...if that is what it is is not fully formed yet. It is getting kind of thrushy under the flap. I wasn't sure if he might get sore without it until the new frog was done??? he seems touchy when I clean under it.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:48 am: Thanks Rachelle, if I ever get a straight frog on this hoof there will be a picture with a big grin following it!!! His RF has a straight frog. 2 VERY different hooves tho...his RF is ALMOST normal.
Member: lilo	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 9:31 am: Hi Diane - Being sound is the most important thing, is it not? I know you would like to have a text book hoof, but the progress you have been making in getting him sound barefoot is just amazing. Can't give you any advice, just some encouragement that you are on the right path. Lilo
Member: stek	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 11:19 am: Diane you might want to squirt a little thrush buster under there but I personally would let it work its way loose on its own. One of my own horses just completely regrew/shed his frogs. I left them alone aside from trimming the raggedy edges and the old ones fell off on their own, leaving nice shiny new ones underneath =)
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 4:57 pm: Good idea Shannon, I don't have any thrushbuster, gotta get some. I did squirt some tomorrow under there tonight. Is that what a frog looks like when it sheds??? His RF doesn't. Thanks
Member: vickiann	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 6:22 pm: Don't worry about them looking pretty, Diane. My farrier has got me really trained to be concerned about function rather than visual beauty. I tend to agree with Angie that a swipe on the heels may be in order, but if you've got good balance overall they will self trim if you take him out on some hard surfaces.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 6:37 pm: Heels were swiped last night.. I think I am FINALLY developing an eye for high spots and what needs to be done...for the most part anyway. Hanks is getting to graze a few hours a day as long as I keep him exercised and he is looking really good. With all this rain, I think I will skim back grass time a bit, the grass has gone into overdrive and is green as green gets very lush looking and growing fast, a very dangerous time for the 2 boys. I sure don't want to ruin his new found soundness with a bout of laminitis. Thanks!!
Member: vickiann	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:14 pm: Diane, Don't trust your eye. Lay that rasp over the foot to see if it is level. The eye lies. My farrier asked a huge group which side was highest including someone who regularly trimmed horses feet. We were all wrong.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 7:33 pm: LOL I tried that and I still couldn't tell Eyes do lie as you can see from that pic up above where the outside heel is about 2 inches higher than the inside!!! I take pictures every time I touch his hooves and view them from all angles...that helps alot. That bulge by the heel in the hairline in his lateral view above, correlates very well with me leaving that side of the heel too high. It is already relaxing now that I evened them up... and he seems more comfortable ( he SHOULD) sigh...
Member: canter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 7:10 am: Diane, if you can't tell that everything is level by lying the rasp across it, would one of those small carpenter levels help? (You know, those metal thingy's with the little bubble encased in glass in the middle) I suggest this tentatively because although I follow all these posts on hooves, I remain quite clueless and prefer to leave my horse's hooves to my farrier, who has done a great job for as long as I've owned Sparkles...so I don't know if the suggestion is laughably impractical or a good idea. Take it for what it's worth...
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 7:43 am: It may be laughable Fran, but I already tried that, unfortunately it didn't work. Nothing is that easy in the horse world... I should have known.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 7:55 am: Diane, I have actually used a small ruler to take measurements when I couldn't decide which side was higher. Just be sure and make marks on the hoof on each side the same distance from say the middle of the heel, or from the toe. I used a small tape measure to curl around the hoof, and then with the hoof on the ground, I measured with the solid ruler. Do you have the hoof measuring guide thing? It measures angles and toe length. https://www.star-ridge.com/Page34.html Good to have, very easy to use for toe length and angles.
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 12:27 pm: Good idea about the measuring Angie. That's how my farrier said to do it. Of course, he can tell what is level by laying the rasp on the foot. I think that a lot of imbalances are on account of farriers "eye-balling it." My farrier, however, never measures angles, ever, and does not think that there is a reason to do this as correct angles vary by the horse.
Member: stek	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 12:42 pm: I have to agree with your farrier about not measuring angles Vicki. Each horse is different and each horse can have different natural angles from one foot to the other. Technically the fronts should match and the rears should match but in some cases that's just not right for the horse. The small ruler though is very handy.
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 2:25 pm: I used to pay attention to the angles and would ask my (past) farriers to check them sometimes, but everyone is going much better since I quit paying attention to them, Shannon.
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 9:00 pm: Vicki Z, I am like you, when I was a traditional racehorse trainer, I was very strict about my angles and depending on what type of horse I was working with (trotter or pacer) trotters tend to have longer toes and lower angles, pacers have shorter toes and higher angles. Once I started going barefoot, I pretty much forgot about angles because we went by what the foot was telling us it needed and not some foregone conclusion based on the horses gait. At the time, I had a trotting mare that had been having all sorts of interference problems and it did not matter what kind of shoes I put on her to get her away from hitting herself. Once I pulled her shoes and based the trim on what she was telling me she wanted, I didn't check her angles for over a year, I just took care of her feet, she started trotting much better, you couldn't knock her off her feet and she quit interfering. About a year later, as a lark to see what her angles were and was very surprised to find out that she was carrying a 54 1/2 degree angle in front and a 55 degree angle behind, I think it was the much shorter toe that did it, she was much more comfortable. Unfortunately, she was diagnosed as a roarer and did not make the races, but it was a very good learning experience to see that not every horse fits the norm of what other people tell you something should be or what you perceive it to be either. Rachelle
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 9:24 pm: This is very interesting to know, Rachelle. Thanks for sharing the story.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 7:10 am: I agree with all of you; I only suggest measuring angles to help see where you are, and to track changes. I use the hoof gauge only as a reference tool, I don't measure every time I trim nor do I aim for some text book angle. I do think it's interesting to watch a toe length get shorter though! Of course you can measure that with a tape or ruler.
Member: scooter	Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 7:22 am: Don't you think that angles can be important to "gauge" progress? I agree no hoof fits into a "mold" of set angles confirmation ect. comes into play. I actually have never measured Hanks angles and don't really plan on it, but can't the eye tell you if they are about right and of course the way they are moving?
Member: vickiann	Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 7:37 am: I think that it could be interesting to keep track of the angles over time to notice whether there are repeating correlations with angles relative to peak performance. Lance performs best right after a trim so certainly angles come into play in that regard. If we had harder natural environmental surfaces so he could self-trim better or I made it a regular practice to walk him on the road everyday or take a swipe or two with a rasp he would probably maintain better. An angle hasn't been checked on my farm for a few years though, and my horses are all going much better for my not worrying about this any longer.
Member: stek	Posted on Friday, Apr 9, 2010 - 10:41 am: Good point guys, nothing wrong with checking just to see where you are. The more information we have the better, right?
Member: scooter	Posted on Tuesday, Apr 13, 2010 - 8:02 am: I have to have the farrier out for Bonesy and my other 2 horses. I am debating having him rasping Hank from the top where that flare is, I am not making much progress with it and I THINK if I could get him to rasp it "properly" from the top it would help... that's all he really needs. Will post pics when he's done... I hope he doesn't lame him up again, he is not going to be allowed to touch his toe...I have that plenty short enough.
Member: vickiann	Posted on Tuesday, Apr 13, 2010 - 12:47 pm: Hope it goes well, Diane. I can understand why you need a hand with so many hooves needing care!
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 8:04 pm: Farrier is coming Fri. at 4pm I have looked up this question and I am not 100% sure of the ans. should a big flare be removed all at once?? I have been trying to gradually reduce that one of Hanks on the outside left toe and it's not working.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 9:02 pm: Ask yourself this: How would you take all the flare off at once? Do you mean all off from the top?
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 14, 2010 - 9:17 pm: WELL if I knew how, I would do it LOL. I'm thinking maybe he can meet me halfway, while it is reducing very SLOWLY, I think a "proper" rasping from the top would help me out a bit. Hanks hooves actually look pretty good either than that big old flare (which I think may be related to the blob) I haven't touched them for awhile...glanced at them last night. He is sound and I have been riding on the limestone arena, pavement, some gravel, and the fields. His wall is short and I don't want that guy doing his "weird" bevel from the top.. I'm thinking if he just goes straight down??? that would do it without soring him up... I need to inspect his hooves closer tomorrow I think.
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 - 7:09 am: Diane, In the short version answer, my take on this would be no you can't do this all at once because if you did you would wind up thinning the wall too much. You have a couple of things going on. The first is that you don't quite yet have a tight connection between wall and laminae from the point in Hank's foot where it comes straight down. In other words the connection at the top 1-2 inches is tight the rest is not. That is evidenced by the stretched white line where the flare is. Second, the thickness of the wall is greater on the flared side. This tells me that while the wall here needs work, Hank is adding hoof to protect himself. If you try to take it all off at the same time, the hoof may look pretty, but Hank will try and protect it more. If you go back to some of your threads, toe callous, false sole,toe blob, now extra wall and flare. I think that's Hanks way of telling you with his feet that those issues are protectionist. I would be very careful in how your trimmer addressed this and while I might allow him to take a little bit more than you probably do. I would be very careful that he does not overdo it. Got a question, Can you show him how to bevel properly? because if you can than what I think you need is a stronger bevel on the side from underneath ( almost like a rockered wall) to allow Hank to land where he is supposed to and even out his wall thickness overall. He may not even have to touch the other side of his foot. Just make sure when he gets done that his feet are level and balanced and give him a day off from work that night and the next day. Just my thoughts Rachelle
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 - 7:49 am: Thanks Rachelle, no I don't think I can show him a proper bevel, I tried explaining that last time. He "bevels" from the top and well you have seen the results thru the years. I am SO glad you guys finally helped me figure that out!! I can put a stronger bevel on from the bottom I think, I just have been reluctant to do so, not knowing for sure if that was a good idea. HMMMM maybe I won't let him touch Hanks hooves. I need to look closely at them tonight and take some pics again. I haven't done much to them lately or even looked at them much on the bottom, I can see the flare as he stands tho. His hooves are really starting to look good as looking at them from lateral and the AP stand point. I have them wore down pretty good. I wonder if I just keep at it myself until the toe flare hits the ground that would suffice? It is only about an inch away from the ground.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 - 8:33 am: DO NOT let him bevel from the top. I wouldn't be against making the wall thickness the same all the way around the hoof, which he can do by rasping vertically from top OR bottom, but I think it's Pete that says you put a steeper bevel on the flared wall from underneath. I THINK as his sole continues to toughen up, the bevel can be steeper too cuz he will be walking on sole and wall more? At least that's what I am doing with my flares, so far, so good, no ouchiness. Aren't you having the farrier out just for the new guy? Guess I'd be leary of anyone else touching hoofs at this point. As Rachelle says "Just my thoughts" hmmm..."Just my 5 cents worth?" LOL!
Moderator: DrO	Posted on Thursday, Apr 15, 2010 - 11:26 am: DianeE if you are sure the foot is well balanced and not overly long then if you are not removing enough to correct the problem be a bit more aggressive. I often remove all flare at one rasping but that requires assessment that you are not exposing too much sole to the ground and that the remaining wall is strong enough. It also helps to unload the flared wall so that the abducting force is removed. Keep it unloaded until full thickness wall has grown out. DrO
Member: scooter	Posted on Friday, Apr 16, 2010 - 10:32 pm: So the farrier came and we had quite a talk about Hanks hooves. I told him how he left Hank on his soles last time and why it happened. He listened to me intently and understood what I was saying. I took his rasp (which I LOVE) and showed him how I was beveling Hanks hoof from the bottom, while I don't think the concept sunk in he is all for me maintaining Hank and doing what I want. He said is WL is looking better than it EVER has, and I was helping with my rasping alot between trims he was actually quite impressed! I had the guy thinking hard, and he was very careful with his rasping from the top. I wasn't able to get pics or even to examine the finished product closely from the solar view, just not enough time. The lateral and AP view looked good. I asked him about that flare I can't get rid of and he said the slow but sure method the way we have been doing it is his preference, while it may not be pretty he is sound and if we hacked it off all at once Hank would probably be on his sole and lame. He walked off sound, will see what tomorrow brings. The farrier is going to get me a rasp like his at the supply shop, he said he gets a 25% discount. The barefoot sculptor I got I am not thrilled with and have a hard time using it. The farriers was "sweet" and he gave me a handle for it too I can't wait!!! I'll get pics tomorrow.
Member: juliem	Posted on Friday, Apr 16, 2010 - 11:58 pm: Well finally, a big girl rasp!!!
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 7:56 am: YES a big girls rasp!! after using the farriers I was hooked, much easier than anything I have been using! However a little more dangerous, I needed the practice with these other ones . I'm afraid if I would have started with something like that Hank would be a worse mess than he is. Moving well this morning. I am going to take pics after breakfast of the solar view and see what we have.
Member: kpaint	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 9:45 am: Diane, that is so great that your farrier is open to your suggestions and not uncomfortable with you doing work on Hank. That is worth its weight in gold. Congratulations on the Big Girl Rasp.
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 10:13 am: Here is the ugly hoof I hate putting too many pics up because I am going to need more help when I get my big girls rasp, but I am getting it so can slow down a little Here's his hoof this morning, I couldn't get it real clean, his sole is flaking and what is there is ground in dirt. Their hooves have gone from soft and mushy to extremely hard with this dry weather we are having. The farrier doesn't remove sole on Hank unless it is extremely built up. He is teetering walking on his sole at the toe, he seems comfortable and is walking fine, no DP's. OH and notice the ALMOST straight frog!!!! What a hoof sigh.... While we have a ways to go I believe his toe is much shorter than it has been and his heel is moving back nicely, especially on the left side of the screen his inside..that used to be way worse. I think we are very close to 50/50. If I ever get rid of those flares I think we'll have it!!! Great improvement tho???
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 10:29 am: BTW when I was trying to explain and show the farrier how to bevel from the bottom, I could just see his head spinning. I showed him twice, explained the WL, waterline, hoofwall and how we needed to unload the WL and hoofwall to keep the flare from "pulling" his brain just wouldn't comprehend that. SOOO I asked him IF he was going to get rid of that flare all at once how he would do it. He said he would take his nippers and take the whole hoof wall, WL, waterline everything and nip it off to where the straight wall starts...HMMMM. Now that does make sense in a strange way, but as he said Hank wouldn't probably be able to walk, as he would be on his sole. SOOO I asked him if he would put a shoe on if he did something like that, he said no there would be nothing left to nail to... YIKES. I guess that would be the quick fix!!! That is what they taught him in farrier school he said. Once I get my big girls rasp, I am going to start relieving those flares better (next week)
Member: kpaint	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 11:18 am: Diane, is there anything on the close up video I put on YouTube that would help your farrier?
Member: vickiann	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 11:20 am: Great progress, Diane! Try to be patient so you don't go backward. (Easy to give such advice but very hard to follow it)!
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 12:36 pm: Vicki I don't think the farrier would look at videos, he is happy with his work and he doesn't get any complaints probably. He does fine with Sam and Flash. Hank just has that "special" hoof that he probably doesn't have to deal with or the owners really don't care, with the latter being my guess, because he said Hanks is one of the better hooves he trims lately!...that's scary isn't it Those videos did help me tho!!!!
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 12:44 pm: Diane, Beeyoutiful. That foot is starting to come along just fine, even if it is a problem. Both halves of his foot are evening out, his heels are back, his foot is shortening up and compacting, his frog is straight. Even the fact that he is exfoliating his own soles is a good sign. It shows that you are doing just the right amount of work to keep his foot stimulated and not wearing them out too much. Even the shape of his foot and his toe callous look great. I think your farrier will eventually get it, especially if Hank's feet keep responding to what you are doing. He will start putting two plus two together. The next time. I'd pull that picture you took right after he did him the last time and compare it to a more recent picture and see if he "gets" it. Any way, good to see Hank's feet are in such really good shape and that he is sound after his trim. Rachelle
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 1:15 pm: Oh man Rachelle that straight frog had me grinning ear to ear!!!! I was so sick of that crooked thing! His heels are looking much nicer. I wanted to scrub his hoof to see what the blob is doing, that dirt is just ground in tho and I couldn't get it to budge. I showed the farrier the blob, he called it seedy toe, I told him I thought it was scar tissue from his previous founder(s). It is NOT visible in front anymore, I am going to get him out later and see if I hose hooves they will come clean, I am very curious just what that blob is doing!!! He doesn't get cracks in his hoofwall at the toe anymore, so that's a good sign anyway I want everything don't I, no flares, no blobs, and straight frogs. If we get rid of that blob I will truly be amazed
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 1:25 pm: I think your farrier does a great job with keeping things level if the pictures are any indication. Glad you didn't let him nipper the whole wall off though! Looking better all the time for sure! How encouraging! I think I would bevel more especially at the toe, but it may be beveled more than it shows on pics, and I know you will do more when you get the "big girl rasp" love that btw! G-DOUBLE-O-D, GOOD JOB!!
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 1:47 pm: Angie I have never seen him eyeball a hoof like he was Hanks, I think I got through to him a little bit He must have looked down that hoof 20 times to make sure it was level He did not bevel, but I will take care of that when I get my new rasp. I even asked him why he kept looking at it, I think when I told him Hank was on his sole last time and got pretty sore it woke him up a bit. He was VERY nice about my comments, and I made sure not to blame him, just something that happens, but if we can not let it happen again that would be great Hubby came out when we were discussing rasps, he wanted to know why I wanted one I said to maintain Hank between trims. The farier spoke right up and said it was making a HUGE difference You guys and Dr.O. have been so helpful, wish I could express my gratefulness better. I might not have to use my hair pulling icon for Hanks hooves anymore!!!
Member: stek	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 1:58 pm: That's great Diane makes such a difference to work with someone who is willing to listen to your input. I bet it's nice for him to to work with someone who has taken such an interest in their horse's feet. When using your big girl rasp just use the fine side, and remember to eyeball the hoof after every couple swipes - you will do fine I'm sure! I think your farrier is probably right about the fastest way to fix the flare. Some horses could probably tolerate that treatment but it's good to hear he recognizes that it would not work for Hank. Congrats!!
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 17, 2010 - 3:09 pm: Had your farrier done that, I would have been ready with a roll of Perfect Hoofwear. It would serve two purposes, one it would have protected the hoof wall as it grew down and it would have made the wall grow down without the flare. Can you tell that I am beginning to like this stuff!! Anyway, I think you took the right route and you will eventually get there anyway, so who cares if it takes another few months, you've probably ridden Hank more in the last few weeks than you have in the last three years. Have fun Rachelle
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 24, 2010 - 1:06 pm: WELLLL Mr. Blob is changing and for the better I think. Here's a pic of blob, it is letting loose of Hanks sole and has let go of the hoof wall. In the center of the blob you can see a bit of a hole...guess what that is his WL!!!!!!!! It appears I have a bit of a thrush issue surrounding it so will take care of that tonight. It is definitely getting smaller. I'll get rid of that thing yet. and maybe some day his flare
Member: vickiann	Posted on Saturday, Apr 24, 2010 - 7:40 pm: Perry's "blobs" keep changing too, but so far not for the better. The size and shape of his keeps changing and there is a lot of invasion of his white line. In fact a complete infill for nearly an inch. But if Hank's is improving maybe there is still hope for Perry.
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, Apr 24, 2010 - 9:43 pm: Hanks blob was always remodeling itself too, usually not for the better. He has had this thing for 3 years that I've noticed...maybe longer. I think maybe it is on it's way out...I HOPE!! It tends to make his WL grow weird there and at one time it took a detour from the blob. It is much smaller than it used to be anyway and his crack is gone... progress anyway
Member: vickiann	Posted on Sunday, Apr 25, 2010 - 4:47 pm: Good to know, Diane. Thanks.
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 28, 2010 - 6:51 am: HMMM well Hanks been a little more tender than normal lately, I'm not sure if it is too much grass time ( a couple hrs. a day) OR his hoof is a changing AGAIN. He isn't acting laminatic at all, just more tender on hard ground. I haven't done anything to his hooves since the farrier was here. I think I have an opportunity right now to fix that flare. Yesterday I rode him in the fields, which is semi-hard ground and he was fine. When I got back I cleaned his hooves out and all the extra WL at the flare was all soft and mushy so I was able to dig it all out, Which in turn leaves him with some extra wall where the flares are. I THINK if I really beveled that today we would be rid of it... BUT it would leave him pretty much on his sole. I am not going to be able to ride much the rest of the week and the ground isn't extremely hard, with rain on the way for the weekend.... should I risk it?? OR since he is a bit tender would I start a snowball effect of a VERY lame Hank horse I wonder. All of this is dug out leaving excess wall, and it appears there is healthy WL under there...
Member: vickiann	Posted on Wednesday, Apr 28, 2010 - 7:28 pm: Are conditions wet, Diane? Either rainy or a lot of dew?
Member: npo33901	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 6:13 am: Diane, Violino has exactly same frog - I keep cleaning it and cutting slowly the bad stuff - . Started to use 10% betodine / 90% water . Seems to work well. Trubi - has the hole in the toe - like Hank . Cleaning it and the same treatment as above . Good luck to us .
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 6:47 am: Anna I don't think Hank has thrush in his frog, he is shedding it and growing a new one. He is doing the same with his sole. He seems to go through quite a bit of shedding and exfoliating of his sole, which is good I think. I REALLY need to get a different rasp..the farrier forgot to get me one, I worked a bit on his flare, with more to go he walked off sound, will see how he is today, if he is still sound I need to even that hoof up and take some more of the flare..that rasp makes it very hard tho!! The hole in the toe along with the blob is getting MUCH better I think there is hope of getting rid of it. Vicki Z it has been VERY dry here, except last weekend. Sorry about the odd color he got his thrushbuster treatment... to keep sole hard. I am very happy how his heel has moved back and there is some depth at the tip of his frog, maybe the boy is finally growing some sole!
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 2:54 pm: Looking better. Is the tenderness situation improved, I hope?
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 3:12 pm: He isn't as enthusiastic on hard ground(gravel, cement) as he once was, but not horrible or disconcerting. I'm not going to be able to ride until next week, due to weather, work and things I really need to get done around here!!! so if I can get that rasp to cooperate with me (which I doubt) that flare is going to be reduced even more. He is 100% pasture sound...galloped out for turnout.. and the ground is rock hard right now. When the sun, moon and stars align right I have to take advantage it doesn't happen often
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 8:36 pm: "100% pasture sound" and galloping for turnout is good. Hope Hank will also soon be as sound on demanding surfaces.
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Apr 29, 2010 - 9:34 pm: Surprisingly I am not overly concerned with his reluctance to go on gravel or cement, he is sound on what I ride on and what he lives on..if we can stay at that I'll be happy! Being sound on gravel and cement is just an added bonus I'll take if it happens. He has come such a long way and really seems comfortable in those ugly hooves what more can I ask for(except for that blob and flare to go away!!!)
Member: scooter	Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2010 - 8:30 pm: Just to update this, I don't think I am going to need anymore parts!!! Hanks toe flare is gone, not a deep squiggly line to be found on his hoof, nice and smooth!! A first in I don't know how long, maybe I finally got a handle on his metabolic issues His flares are really reducing, almost gone! his heel has come back and up under him... I will continue to strive for better form, still want to get rid of blob and try to tighten that WL up a little more and reduce flare further Solar...which is going to appear in Angies thread with lines. Nice plump frog has grown back since he shed it a few weeks ago and it appears to be relatively straight! Lateral.. no toe Flare..nice smooth wall, hairline looks pretty good!!!! Side from bottom, got his wall down where it belongs finally. AP...while not quite perfect soo much improved Since he got over me chopping his flare off he is very sound with no DP's to be found!
Member: juliem	Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2010 - 9:19 pm: Let's see how this goes:
Member: juliem	Posted on Saturday, May 8, 2010 - 9:28 pm: Ok, here's what I'm seeing. The heel points are where I've drawn that V. The widest part of the frog and heel butresses are where the little squares are. The heel point should be back that far!! I don't think you can do that at one time, but I'd go as far as the short straight line if you didn't get into the live sole. It looks as if you're quite aways from that unless the picture is mis-leading. As the hoof is now, most of the foot is in front of the widest part. If you take those heels back, you'll have most of the foot behind the widest part. The point of the heels will be solid from hoof wall to bar, without the space you have now. Now then, this is Hank's foot, so you have to be the judge, but this is what I'm seeing and being told. I think the toe shortens when the heels are taken back, not vice versa. It looks as if you have a nice toe callus at about 3/4 inch from the tip of the frog. FWIW...........
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2010 - 7:29 pm: You guys would have loved my farrier tonight. He got to Hank and had the nippers in his hand picked his hoof up and looked at me and said this is what I'm going to nipper off what do you think LOL. I said I think you should not do that, no argument and the nipper got put away. I told him just to even him up a little with the rasp and I would do the rest... HE did a VERY good job.. he doesn't bevel or relieve the quarters so I did it when he left...Hanks hooves are looking pretty good His Wl is tightening, still aways to go tho, his heel continues to move back, his wall is thickening and the blob is shrinking! AND it is June and he is sound barefoot even in ridden work I've been rasping every week or 2 depending on his hoof. What a pretty hoof...FOR HANK! After I beveled and relieved the quarters..laid flat on the ground for these
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2010 - 7:57 pm: Here's a little closer up one of his heels..I think we are just about where they belong???? The right side needs a LITTLE tweaking. Notice the blob???
Member: vickiann	Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2010 - 8:17 pm: Oh my. That is a pretty hoof for Hank. You are doing so great to address the inadequacies of your farrier. My farrier believes in letting the horse fix everything so he does not relieve the quarters nor take back the bars. I've seen in various horses that they efficiently correct the bar problem. They can also correct the non-relief to the quarters but then again they can also break out badly at the quarters or worse tear their heel out. I love my farrier but sometimes think he is expecting my horses to correct more than they can possibly be expected to do within this environment where they live.
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2010 - 10:34 pm: You should have seen Sam's hooves I don't mess with his YET, his were broke out so bad I was finding chunks of hoof lying all over the place, his quarters were completely gone on all fours, His toe was very long and I had no idea how the farrier was going to fix that mess...it was really bad. The farrier smoothed him out and actually did a very nice job, but he is on his sole because of the broken out walls. Sam can actually handle that, actually when the farrier was done he moved much nicer. Hadn't I been maintaining Hank the same thing would have happened, he was trying VERY hard to have hooves like Sam's. In Hanks case he would have been dead lame. It does make me very happy that I can do this now and avoid disasters like that.... even if it took 12 parts!
Member: vickiann	Posted on Tuesday, Jun 8, 2010 - 11:45 am: I've been worrying about excess bars on my boys all week but noticed this morning that they do seem to be gradually taking care of going away on their own. My farrier isn't due for two more weeks and Lance especially is a mess with lots of breakage.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jun 20, 2010 - 7:54 pm: My archenemy "the Blob" is just about gone. Amazing thing that blob. The scar tissue type stuff is gone, it has left his WL and hoof wall. What I am left with is one perfectly round dark black hole. I dig it out with my knife once a week and dump thrushbuster down it.. this hole seems to be quite deep, and chicken that I am I can't bring myself to dig that deep. Tho I am getting braver as I do it more and the hole is shrinking in circumference but still seem deep. It is just like a black deep spot on an apple where you dig and dig but never seem to find the good part of the apple. Unfortunately I DrOpped my camera last week and it just hasn't been the same, my pics are even crappier then usual. This will give you a general idea what it looks like. I am confident now that eventually I can get rid of it the scar tissue leaving seems like a miracle in itself. I really wanted to get a good pic, but until I can get a new camera this is the best I could do Hank's hooves are doing OK in ridden work, he is sound in the arena, pasture, trails, even the paved road isn't too bad....but anything with rocks or gravel brings him to his knees
Member: gramsey1	Posted on Sunday, Jun 20, 2010 - 11:01 pm: Your camera seems to have focused on the ground. But, we get the idea. Encouraging for us. Our OTTB has "blobs on both fronts. Lisa Markowitz, the lady that did the sections used in the article, is trimming our boy. She treats the hoof without much concern for the condition. She considers it chronic and not much cause for concern.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jun 20, 2010 - 11:42 pm: I don't know Guy, a chronic condition caused by what??? Hanks I suppose is due to his chronic founder. If you look at my part about the blob it was making Hanks WL not be able to form a good connection with the hoof...the white scar tissue part of it. That is gone now and I am left with this hole that is really as I described it like a rotten apple(deep) hole. This can not be healthy I'm thinking. I will try to get a good picture of it, because it is a strange thing and kind of neat. I can't believe he hasn't got a major abscess from it as deep and rotten as it is. Here is a pic I took of it on 5/8 the white scar tissue is still present, but more concentrated, it was still playing havoc with his WL attachment, which has enough problems without the blobs help. His WL is almost normal there now except the black hole... so I have graduated from blob to black hole. I really need to get a good pic, would love to see what Dr.O. thinks of it. My camera lens fell out and I had to stuff it back in, it makes strange noises now 5/8
Member: gramsey1	Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 2010 - 4:32 pm: Remember the article on seedy toe that discussed HKH? https://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/articles/SeedyToe.pdf They didn't identify a cause, or a treatment beyond what you are doing. I'll talk to her about it.
Member: gramsey1	Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 2010 - 4:41 pm: I think this version of the article is a bit more up to date and provides some answers. https://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/Text_Files/HK_Horn_article.pdf
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 2010 - 9:27 pm: Guy Hank has/had a text book version of the HKH, last night I dug out the hole and put thrush buster in the hole, tonight it was actually filled in much better. The extra horn part of it is gone, for now anyway and his WL isn't all freaky and pearly looking nor trying to take detours anymore! His WL seems to be trying to repair itself there and make the correct connection. While still stretched it is half the size it was... My next battle to get a tight WL.. His flares are going away also, if I could get that camera working right I would take some pics...he still had UR heels but they are coming along also. I got an OK pic of what the blob looks like tonight, at this point it is just a black line, and not real deep, I did some more digging tonight and put Tomorrow on it, have been alternating thrush buster and Tommorow as treatments... I think I am going to beat this thing, and since it can be degenerative in nature I can't wait to be rid of it!!!
Member: gramsey1	Posted on Monday, Jun 21, 2010 - 11:51 pm: This is really encouraging to me. Our horse is 8 weeks barefoot and showing a bad case on both front feet. He has/had the same kind of behavior issues Hank has had. Your threads on this topic are really a wonderful case study. Very well documented.
Member: scooter	Posted on Tuesday, Jun 22, 2010 - 7:54 am: Thanks Guy, I hope you are able to get rid of the blobs, thankfully Hank doesn't have one on his RF.You would have to think these black holes would have to be painful. They also seem to be fairly common, even on this board I have seen a few blobs in pics and different people saying their horses have them. Hank behaves very well when I work on his hooves, but when I start digging at that thing he tries to pull his hoof away, I take that as a sign of pain, it is the only time he does that. Under saddle he continues to be a VERY good boy
Member: scooter	Posted on Thursday, Jul 15, 2010 - 7:37 am: The farrier came last night, Hank walked off a little sore on the hard ground, it was getting so late and HOT I didn't even look at his hooves when he was done. Vision of shoes have been dancing in my head the last month or so. He has been a bit of a tender foot when riding on anything hard. Our last ride there was improvement, but now he appears sore from his trim... tho NOT horrible. The farrier didn't use the nippers, but he did rasp off his flares for the most part and that's about it. I decided against the shoes, we have come a LONG way. I did measure him for boots and MIGHT go that direction if he remains touchy. I will try to get pics tonite maybe you guys can see the problem. I hope he isn't immobilized this morning Sam who went through that awful founder last winter has had horrible looking hooves, the farrier does a excellent job on him and he walks off very well, I don't know what to make of Hank other than it must be his thin soles.
Member: scooter	Posted on Friday, Jul 16, 2010 - 7:55 am: I rode Hank last night and on grassy type surfaces he is OK. Just to cross the paved road was pitiful. I took a quick glance at his hooves and I don't see anything the farrier did wrong, will try very hard to get pics tonight that might help me see something. I am going to order some boots for him, I just can't avoid hard ground all the time. This morning he had a bit of heat and a little more DP than I prefer, and that was just from going about 50 yds. on the rd (couldn't avoid it) I think I am going to get him some old mac originals, his round hoof fits them the best I think, Sam did very well in them when he transitioned years ago, I got keep fat boy exercised and he is a good boy so actually fun to ride!
Member: vickiann	Posted on Friday, Jul 16, 2010 - 12:09 pm: Sorry to hear that Hank is being tender-footed on hard surfaces, Diane. Is it possible that his feet are softer right now on account of rain? This is something that I observe as causing tenderness for trail horses. But if he got more sore after a trim it makes one think that the change created by the trim certainly contributed. Hopefully Hank will feel better soon!
Member: juliem	Posted on Friday, Jul 16, 2010 - 2:48 pm: Diane, in my experience with a previously foundered horse, being just a little overweight and on grass is enough to bring on tender feet. I mean, even a little overweight! My vet always told me if mine was to remain sound, he had to stay "ribby" and in my case, he was right. Grass that didn't bother him while ribby, pushed him into laminitis if he wasn't. And his degree of rotation was minimal. I was always quick to error on the conservative and dry lot mine if ribs and hip bones weren't visible. He had a crest that was a pretty accurate gauge for me as I knew from feel how it was when he was "ok" and how it felt when it was time for the dry lot.
Member: gramsey1	Posted on Friday, Jul 16, 2010 - 2:52 pm: Our TB, barefoot only three months, was not right for the last two weeks. He has been out nights, with a new pasture buddy. It has been very hot and dry. The pastures are like concrete. The vet did a flexion test and found after flexing his right front he moved lame on his left front. She checked the left side again. Nothing. Right front flexion again lame left front. Blocked left front. He moved fine there after. Diagnosis. Sore feet, possibly deep sole bruise. Try shoes or boots, until the pastures soften again. Is your turn out hard? Maybe it is just too much right now.
Member: scooter	Posted on Friday, Jul 16, 2010 - 7:33 pm: Julie while Hank isn't thin by any means, his crest remains soft. He was fine until his trim, so that is rather telling I think. BUT this time I don't think the farrier did any thing he shouldn't Hanks hoof is getting to the point of not much hoof wall from my riding and this may just have tipped the scale. I am certain this is not laminitis..thankfully! Guy YES the pasture is like cement, However he is fine out there, it's just pavement and gravel that is getting him at this point the packed limestone paddock slows him a bit too, and he wasn't what I would call great on it before his trim, but he tolerated ok. I still am having trouble figuring out this new camera, but 2 pics turned out alright. His flares all around are much better, he has a nice toe callous, and he really isn't on his sole but close, and I believe his blob is just about gone or gone completely! He was quite improved this afternoon, but I still think I will get some boots, so the shoe thoughts will leave my head LOL. Doesn't hurt to have them on hand JIC. I need to bevel his walls yet and trim his bars, and bring the heel back a bit, been way too busy lately and it is HOT out!
Member: scooter	Posted on Wednesday, Jul 21, 2010 - 11:30 pm: As luck would have it my procrastination about choosing a hoof boot has paid off, Hank is getting sounder every day, and held up pretty good tonight on our ride, he tippy toed a bit on the pavement, but at least he wasn't stumbling and about falling to his knees like right after his trim. I still can't figure out what the farrier did wrong this time, he did remove quite a bit of flare in the quarter/ heel area, but I really didn't think it would lame him up that bad... guess it did, at least he is on the mend pretty quickly and the flares are GREATLY reduced. Been to tired and busy to mess with his hooves myself, didn't even get them beveled. I did give him bute for 2 days when he was quite ouchy and dumped thrushbuster on his soles to help toughen them a little bit. At least he rebounded this time with no problems...progress I had to stop at the vets office today to get Sam his pergolide and was chatting with my vet, he said boy I haven't had to come out to your place for a long time, He said NO founder this year is great!...Progress... tho Hank can stay fat as a butterball turkey with his meager pickens, the exercise he is getting helps with everything, still no dry lot this year I try to trot him at least a couple miles a night in the hayfield the neighbor has a great 5 mile track cut right between the hayfields and the cornfieds (little too much wildlife there, but we are managing), depending on the weather of course, but if it isn't raining we go. We had to take a sore hoof break last week, but tonight we were back at it and he was a very good boy, even when the big bad deer jumped out the corn field and almost landed on us
Member: vickiann	Posted on Thursday, Jul 22, 2010 - 7:19 am: Great news, Diane. Lance had to have some Bute for a few days after my Vet took his flare back. My Vet declined to mess with some visible bars because he said if he did, it would make him really sore. He generally prefers to manage the bars but my farrier doesn't do much with them. Sometimes changes, even if for the better overall, seem to require an adjustment period. Hope you won't need any boots after all as being out barefoot is what will toughen Hank's feet up.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 7:49 am: I tell ya this is getting to be a struggle. Since we had our weeks of rain Hank is quite sore again. He has not been on grass due to the flooding, he is not foundering. He has sore hooves AGAIN, but why???? Yesterday his pulses were KA-booming and he didn't want to move. I took the hoof testers to him and didn't get any reaction, but boy did his soles flex with just a little pressure. If he walks on a little piece of gravel it about kills him. They have been in the "dry" lot since last Weds. we are getting new fence put in, we got it ripped out, then the deluge began and we haven't got the new fence up. I wondered if lack of movement was doing this to my poor IR guy so took him out for a hand walk to get him moving and see how sore he actually was. He started out a little slow, but once he got moving he moved very well, trotted and cantered very willingly on SOFT ground(grass), crossed the paved rd, VERY slowly. We went for a LONG hand walk/trot/canter up and down hills, got his and my blood flowing. (I would have rode him but wasn't sure how sore he was). Put him back in the dry lot and he was still quite sore in there, now you would think we would have mud after 12+ inches of rain, but the dry lots top soil all washed away... sigh. What is left is rock HARD clay with rock interspersed. I guess his thin, flexing, water logged soles can't take it. I don't know if it is a good idea to make him "tough it out" I'm afraid it may lead to laminitis. I have been putting TB on his soles, but that isn't cutting it with all this darn rain! If I could get him in the pasture I think he'd come out of it...but no fence! I am going to order some boots, Any suggestions to keep this from snow balling into a unrideable Hank with laminitis? I prefer not to wrap his hooves, it will just soften his sole further.
Member: mrose	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 10:35 am: I use a sole paint on my horses if their feet get soft and tender. It toughens them up in just a few days and imo really helps. You can put it on, let it dry, then apply the boots until they harden up. Might be worth a try.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 11:04 am: Thanks Sara, I felt so bad for Hank I went out and built a temp fence so they all could get out and move. Hank went galloping out, and cantered for a few minutes..He is moving just fine out there. I checked his DP's this morning and they were still very Ka-Boomy, after an hour on pasture they DrOpped tremendously and are just about normal! They have been stomping flies like crazy too, which I am sure is NOT helping him. Once Ann S. gives her report on those sport boots I am going to order them...if she seems to like them. I hopefully can start riding Hank tonight again (on soft ground) that always seems to help him, movement is a very important key to Hanks hoof health.
Member: vickiann	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 11:32 am: Wet weather certainly does soften and make tender horse hooves. My friends and I see it trail riding with our horses every time there is a long stretch of rain. We could use some of your rain down here, Diane. Our levels are below normal with the heat index around 110. On my sandhill things dry up in a hurry without rain. I am fortunate that when we do have several days of rain, it drains quickly and there are no standing puddles. Even so, the horses' feet really soften up during times of extended rain. I will hope for you to have some drier weather coming up. Glad you found a way to let Hank out on some pasture. All best regards.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 3:59 pm: Diane, I started using Keratex with all the moisture we've been having. My routine is I spray with TTO when I clean hoofs, and about every other day I use the Keratex. (Not at the same time, just in case the 2 things would have a bad reaction) I also got some White Lightening Gel, but found it to be a pain to put on. It seems the combo of the TTO as an antifungal and anti whatever else, plus the sole coating stuff is helping. I've been lax too lately as the humidity has been so high and I just don't feel well enough to be under horses hoofs! BTW, do you have gravel anywheres that they come in contact with daily in their pens or pastures? That is my next project when we get more gravel this fall for the driveway. If they are always made to walk on it, it should help? I have some by the water tank. It is just a crappy summer isn't it? I hope the weather calms down for everyone, and Hank & you get some riding time in.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 6:26 pm: Angie, there is gravel and packed limestone where the horses walk. I never beveled after the last farrier trim.. it was too darn HOT!!! I'm hoping that will help him quite a bit...he doesn't have any thrush, he did have a few defects in his MUCH narrower white line!!!!!. I gotta say his hooves look pretty good now, most all of the flare is gone...and I went looking for the blob today when I beveled and didn't find it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to take him for a short ride in his boots tonight...if they are still in place after his turnout, then take them off and see if the bevel helped us out any..I HOPE so.
Member: scooter	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 9:53 pm: Well after I beveled I immediately put Hanks socks, boots, and Thrushbuster on and turned him out for the afternoon, he was so sore in the paddock and dry lot it was pitiful, I felt very bad for him When I went out to catch him up he cantered right through the paddock with his boots on, took him for a short ride and took the boot combo off and oh my the bevel really did help him. He TROTTED in for supper through the dry lot and right on to the HARD paddock, didn't miss a beat He couldn't/wouldn't even walk on it before his bevel. I don't understand how this helped him so much really, kind of strange....but I'll take it...he is not on bute. Here's a pic of his purple hoof, I don't know why I can't get the whole hoof in with this new camera! I am really proud of this 1st pic...no sign of the blob and his WL is just about normal in the toe area... I never thought it possible!!! Ding Dong the wicked blob is GONE!!! I know I know heels and bars need work...BUT the blob is gone...I am so excited about that..LOL
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 - 11:23 pm: I had to read that first sentence twice, wasn't sure if you were dressing a baby or Hank, lol! I wonder if the wet conditions don't make the flared areas softer AND more painful? So the bevel helped ease the outer wall contact where the WL isn't tight yet? But then again, can't we get by with less bevel on wetter ground?? Oh wait, that question should be on my discussion about hoof trimming truths, His hoof looks like my mares' hoofs right now. I tweaked them tonight and even Willow's normally rock hard hoofs were soft, crappy, and there was black in places there shouldn't have been! They had that ridge like I see on his hoof; strange, I never know if it's callous or what, but just bevel like always and wait and see. Maybe some one should invent some type of water proof socks for hoofs, huh? Glad the blob is gone. Stay dry.
Member: rtrotter	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 5:22 am: Ok Angie, I'll oblige you about the water proof socks. When I was researching ways to be able to keep my horses feet protected, I looked into the possibility of using rubber socks with a pair of glued on shoes(sort of pull on pull off situtation). I did a google search on "rubber socks" and came up with a kinky site that specializes in rubber clothing of all types including socks. I did email them explaining what I needed, but I never did receive a response back from them( they must thought I was nuts). Diane, I am so glad the socks seem to be working with the added benefit of keeping the flies off his legs. And I am glad that Hank feels better. If you use fly spray spray the socks after you put them on. I had a friend of mine that kept polo wraps on her horses all summer( all 4 legs), she sprayed the polo wraps and they seemed to keep the flies at bay. Spraying the socks would have the same effect. The bevel helps him because it removes the stress on the laminae
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 7:01 am: It is so strange tho, I know why the bevel helps him, but it was a 100% improvement. Sam as you recall foundered quite badly this last winter, he is at a stage Hank was at at one time. His hoof looks pretty good after the farrier trims him and in 2 weeks the flares are huge again. He did not become lame on hard ground like Hank did, at this point I would say his hoof is at a stage that they are MUCH worse than Hanks. He has a couple months before the founder line hits the ground, his WL is quite stretched and flares all around. So what's the difference???? Angie I think that is a sole callous and when Hank grows a big one like that he is protecting himself, whether it is right or wrong I never touch it, when the farrier used to remove it down to normal sole height Hank would get sore....quite sore...what a special hoof.
Member: ajudson1	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 9:23 am: Diane, I try not to touch any thing on the sole at the toe after I sored Tango last summer. These special hoofs teach us the most! O.k., Rachelle, we need to expand our thinking here, lol! Beyond kinky rubber clothing...ha! What was it the knights wore? Mail chain was it called? It was tough but flexible. Was if a breathable water proof product with the mail chain (If that's the correct name for what I am thinking)on the bottom was formed into a hoof sock? It would flex, breath, and protect the hoof from moisture,and massage the sole while protecting the sole. Would need the frog area to be just the softer material. With all the materials available in the world and the technology behind it, I think it's time that something new is invented for protecting hoofs! BTW, Rachelle, if you figure this out with my crazy input, I hope I can get some of the profits once you start marketing it, lol! Diane too, this is her discussion! O.k., back to Hank's hoofs
Member: vickiann	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 9:24 am: Hmm. My Lance's left front toe looks exactly like that right now. Farrier trimmed him a week ago tomorrow. If you will recall he had some flare removed some weeks back and had become sore on the left inside of that sole plus bruised on the heel bulb on that same side. I was figuring to work on his toes every couple of weeks and bevel. Should that raised area not be touched at the toe? Glad that Hank is doing better, Diane. Amazing how quickly things can change one way or the other.
Member: scooter	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 5:13 pm: Vicki Z if you are talking about the sole callous as with everything horse there are many opinions, I have read it is good to take it down to sole level and I have heard to leave it alone...in Hanks case it mustn't be disturbed... that is my experience with him... We discussed it in one of these Hank parts..when the farrier trimmed it down last time Hank was LAME until he grew it back....so it is never touched anymore it comes and goes on it's own. Hanks pulses are gone today and he looks much better on the hard ground
Member: vickiann	Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 2010 - 6:19 pm: Hmm. Thanks, Diane. Will think this over carefully and not rush into doing anything too soon. There may be a reason that Lance has built that up there, which is protective. Glad that Hank is looking better on the hard ground!

Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!

Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC