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| Discussion on Hoof Critique 13..The final Chapter ( I promise!) | |
| Author | Message |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 2010 - 1:10 pm: Well I have only gone over by 3 parts, not too bad for a hoof like Hanks I have been Determined to get this horse sound and comfortable as he can be with his pathologies. Dr.O. and hoof helpers I would appreciate anything you have to say and or help at this point, we honestly are almost to a good Hank hoof I think. I'll put my little comments of what I THINK about the pics, but I have been so off base so many times. This is the left front, the one that is in every part, the RF is very similar now... the mud spot looking thing at 2 oclock is the hole where the vet dug the abscess out. 2 things I am VERY proud of I have gotten rid of the "blob"! When that finally happened the WL at his toe has really gotten SOOOO much better..almost normal  The battle of the Blob was not easy!!! He has lost a massive amount of toe and flare. He took a size 8 in old macs when I started this, when I measured him for boots I looked at what size he would take now and it was 4! On the left side of this pic I can see or at least think I still need to bring the heel point back a bit. I don't know if it is possible at this point to get his heel where it belongs it has been so under run for SOOO long..but I will continue to try. I think his flares all around are mostly gone, his WL is sooo much tighter than it has been since his first founder years ago. He DOES have at least as much hoof behind the widest part of the hoof as he does in front. I had to get new pics with my new camera...  The wall side view   Straight on  Side view  We compared the rock crusher arab mares hooves to Hanks, The WL's are almost identical even at the toe, the one thing she has that Hank doesn't is concavity...I don't know if it is possible for him to have much concavity, he always has been a flat foot, even before he foundered. I showed my friend his hoof, she has known Hank since a baby and said WOW they are normal! Dr.O. my questions to you are I have read in the under run heel article that sometimes it just isn't possible to get the heel back where it belongs after a long standing under run heel long toe, I'm kind of getting the feeling that Hanks isn't 100% fixable... Are they ever fixable? These pics really don't show how good his hoof is starting to look. |
| Member: gramsey1 |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Aug 31, 2010 - 5:12 pm: Sounds like you are progressing well too Guy. I am very glad I took pictures through this whole process, his hoof hasn't looked this good in a LOOOOONG time. I think most of his founder pathologies are gone. He is sound except on gravel, hopefully that will come along, he was doing well with it until the monsoons hit. How are your horses "blobs" doing? Hanks WL at the toe just wouldn't tighten until I got rid of it. This is the best his WL has looked in ages. Long process that's for sure
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| Moderator: DrO |
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| Member: scooter |
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 2, 2010 - 3:53 pm: I hope I can end on chapter 13, isn't a real lucky number tho is it . I really find Dr.O's comment quite interesting and do wish he could elaborate on it a little more. It does explain why it was and still can be so hard to keep Hanks hoof in shape, it holds it shape much better now,the flares do not come back overnight which means I think I finally am getting a tighter WL connection! but that has been almost a years worth of trimming. His hoof is trying to tell me it isn't going to get much better than what I have now. I am satisfied at this point at what he has, if I can maintain and possibly improve a little I'll be happy
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Moderator: DrO |
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: leilani |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Sep 7, 2010 - 8:58 pm: Me too!
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Moderator: DrO |
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| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Monday, Sep 13, 2010 - 9:29 pm: OOOohhhhhh....You have one of those pesky "TO DO" lists too?? You are right, I did miss understand you, I thought you just had to... I dunno...scan it and paste it in the right part of HA perhaps? Sorry, this obsession of mine with anything hoof related,  .
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 15, 2010 - 10:59 pm: OK, So I have stopped trying TO "PUSH" Hanks hooves where they SHOULD be. Hank will never have a wild horse hoof. At the moment I am keeping the flare back, letting him have the "pancake" hooves he was born with, trying to keep them balanced, and holding. The boy is back to walking on rocks . No more boots for riding, and his hooves look just about as good as they are going to get!...Acceptance
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 16, 2010 - 3:51 pm: Angie, I think from the start, part of Hanks problems have been the farriers trying to get rid of the pancake hoof...you can't fight genetics . He has been flat footed since as long as I can remember, even before his "problems". I think if I let him have the hoof HE wants instead of what is "perceived" to be a "mustang hoof" I am going to have a much sounder Hank....that seems to be happening now. Yes his quarters are a little high BUT darn that is what he seems comfortable with. They are not so high as to bust out, just a little extra support, his toe in that picture was taken too short by the farrier I think. His frog and and the bulbs are quite hard, no give there! I worked on his hooves a bit Sun. and all I did was a slight bevel all around. His LF looks as good as Hanks hooves get... RF still is a little long and has a bit of seedy toe. Slowly we will get rid of it. He is landing FLAT, not heel first, but I'll take that. When he lands heel first it usually means his toes hurt!!! He definitely needed all the work done in all these parts, now that the founder pathologies are about gone...he can have his genetic pancake hoof...it is what works best with him. I had him in boots for about a moth for riding and that seemed to help his progress, bruising his soles to make him "toughen up" is not the way to go with him. Last night I was just too lazy to put them on, I dragged him up to the rock driveway to get on and he actually walked on it, without hesitation or tripping in pain...it really surprised me. He walked and trotted on the pavement without any discomfort, surprised me again...so hopefully no more boots for awhile
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: lilo |
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| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Friday, Sep 17, 2010 - 5:31 pm: Hee hee, I think my feet got wider and flatter as I get heavier and more outa shape. You're right though that soundness is what matters. |
| Member: scooter |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 2:45 pm: Dr.O. and hoof helpers what is your take on this?The "kids" are way over due for a trim, Hank is getting a little trippy and his toe quite long, Sam is actually quite sound, but his hoof is VERY ugly. I've been putting off calling the farrier because the last time he trimmed them, all 3 of them were lame...even Flash...she wasn't too bad, but the boys could hardly move for 2-3 weeks...Hank recovered quicker than Sam. Sam has just gotten 100% Sam in the last week or 2. They both were VERY VERY sore. I can't really figure out what he did wrong, he was conservative as I asked...No nippers, his backward bevel was still there, but it didn't APPEAR as if the boys were on their soles. They were lame immediately after the trim and sound before, so I am quite certain it was probably the trim...especially Hank, Sam has his PPID that can throw a curve ball in his soundness occasionally. Unfortunately once again I let those hooves get too far ahead of me, but I figured since I had a vacation day I may as well spend it trimming horses  . I got quite aggressive about bringing their toes back, figured I couldn't lame them up more than the farrier does. Tho their toes are still longer than they "should be" When I was done their hooves fit in to the functional category, but not very pretty and my back hurt!!! Hank isn't digging his toe in and tripping, Sam's are still quite ugly but both galloped out on hard ground for their turnout, Flash wasn't doing her pitiful limp as she did after the farrier last time BUT here is where I doubt myself, is it OK to leave them ugly (not dressed, kind of rough, and some things I have ABSOLUTELY no idea what I'm doing) and take the chance it will bite me in the butt later, or go with the flow and enjoy the sound but ugly hooves???? ARE ugly but functional hooves acceptable??? |
| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: juliem |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 4:29 pm: Angie that is what I did I put a VERY strong bevel/roll at the boys toes, I could have done even more, but dang that's hard work! I figured if I stay at them over the next week or 2 I could get them close to where should be without soring them up. I don't know how to deal with the quarters on Hank, over the last month or so his hoof wall has completely peeled off there and his lamanaie are hanging out. I wasn't sure how to deal with that because there is nothing to bevel! This I believe was caused by the farrier rasping from the top and the wet weather we had. I cleaned it up to the best of my ability. I started Hank and Sam on Nu-Hoof Maximizer last month, I have had good luck with that before and the ingredients seemed good. Their hoof walls seem weak, hopefully caused by the weather.
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 - 8:59 pm: I rode Hank tonight and he seemed much better even on hard ground, rocks aren't his favorite thing tho.My friend came out tonight and I told her to tell me if she thought I did a decent job, I warned her they were kind of ugly . It's nice to have someone else around that has a good eye for that stuff. She said they looked very good and wants me to do her horse So I guess they aren't as bad as I thought, I do have to keep after them tho the next couple weeks until I get their toes back further. Angie that is how I relieve the quarters, I'm just not real talented at it yet! Practice makes perfect right!
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Sep 30, 2010 - 4:55 pm: I tell ya coincidences sure can screw up things, this morning when I went out to feed Sam was DEAD lame, he was fine last night. I made him walk and it was very easy to see it was just his left rear, didn't want to weight bear, trying to walk 3 legged. I felt his hoof...no heat. I felt his DP...normal. His tendon sheath in the fetlock felt a little warm and swollen. HMMMMMM Called the vet, he came out and dug found the abscess track, but like Hanks before, really noT much drainage, he definitely was in the right place, Sam about went through the roof when the hoof testers hit it. He was just shaking when the vet was digging, poor guy, he did stand very well. Vet gave him some IV banamine, we poulticed with epsom salt and betadine and vet wrapped it up good, Sam looked just as bad as before he did anything. This afternoon he is MUCH improved and weight bearing He still is favoring it a little, but not bad. I thought I had done something, I would never touch a rasp again if I had lamed him up that bad!!!
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| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: lilo |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Friday, Oct 15, 2010 - 7:16 pm: I think I finally found the cure for the farriers problem with Hank. I tell ya I was fretting about having him come, Hank was lame for quite awhile after his last trim. I was looking at his hooves before he came and came to the conclusion he does his toes ALL wrong. SOOOOO I told him to pretty much leave his toes for me to bring back slowly. He trimmed the rest of his hoof (WELL) and Hank walked off sound and has remained that way!!!! The farrier gets a little too aggressive at Hanks toes and does his weird bevel. I think I finally have the compromise I needed!! He did lightly and I mean lightly rasp his toes from the top and that's all I let him do.
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| Member: totty2 |
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| Member: ajudson1 |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 - 11:15 am: Angie, quite dry here and that has helped tremendously. Haven't took pics of the pretty hooves for awhile so just ran the riders rasp around and snapped some. I think you're right Hanks hoof is looking pretty good his heel points have really come back, the flares have mostly disappeared, his frog is relatively straight and the EVIL blob is gone. The bars look OK.... and he is sound, the most important part! He has developed a more normal looking toe callous also. What a long very productive year!!! We made it without shoes for the riding season, I only used boots for a couple weeks. Hopefully this winter will prove a little easier for him. Thank you Angie, Rachelle and everyone else who helped me get a serviceable hoof back! Not perfect, but remember where we started!!! 13 parts earlier!    
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| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 - 12:34 pm: So that's just a chapter a month, lol! As they say, "you've come a long way, baby (Hank! Diane!)"Much improvement! Since I know pictures can be deceiving I am not by any means trying to be critical so please keep in mind this is all offered with only good will intentions: Keep after those quarters, it almost looks like there is a swipe needed there. Probably not because I know I can look at my horses hoofs, take a picture, and they look high there in the pictures but not to my naked eye. If when you lay the rasp across at the tip of his frog, you have depth, you could start doing more with the bevel to help tighten up those flares. IMO. If he is still flat soled, then keep doing the bevel don't get more aggressive YET. I THINK, based on the picture, he is still trying to grow out an even straighter hoof; looking at the first 1/2" of his hoof wall? It's not MUCH! But if you still want PERFECTION... If you bevel too much and his hoof isn't ready, he will be bit gimpy. (I don't think that will happen, looks like everything is in place! But if you don't keep after the bevel, you will see that flare starting again at the coronet band. At least that's been my experience! Which is frustrating because it's such a fine line there to bevel more or less, more often or less often. I am following the guidelines which say: "If the hoof wall is 2 credit card thickness above the sole, rasp it down, and reapply the bevel/mustang roll." It's working for me on my horses. And I take off ANY part of the FROG which is higher than it should be...usually the middle of the frog! Scared me to follow those guidelines! I think his bars look great, good CG depth! White line looks so much tighter, frog looks healthy! Looks like not just toe callous but a hard area all around his outer sole perimeter! Ya HOO!!! All my babbling is just very VERY MINOR tweaks to think about! I know the frustration of thinking all is well, and then months later going "What the ...?? What did I miss? How did that flare start again? Or how did the toe start going forward again?" A big sign saying "It's the learning curve" should be posted in our barns, lol! And you and Hank are most welcome for anything that I said that helped. And thank you too, I've learned at least as much as I taught from your 13 chapters. 
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Oct 17, 2010 - 12:59 pm: Yes I see that he has a toe flare again/still. I don't know if I can ever get rid of that considering his one very bad founder/ then pretty much a chronic founder for years. His WL is MUCH tighter "almost" normal. Maybe when this new hoof grows down AGAIN it will be even better (one can hope anyway)Those pesky quarters are about as good as they can be, he seems to respond better if they aren't relieved much, they aren't higher hoof in hand, just pretty much even with the rest of his wall. Function has become my priority over pretty. Tho his hoof is MUCH prettier too!!! If you only knew how many time I had to fight off the urge to put shoes on him this year!!! The HA members advice kept going though my head tho, so I refrained!! I'm glad I didn't, he only had a couple weeks where he was ouchy, and it wasn't horrible...the boots took care of that...he was OK (not great) not being ridden. I'll be curious how he handles the winter tundra. Funny his bars for the most part have straightened themselves out, I only trimmed them back twice quite awhile ago, and the farrier doesn't touch them. I don't trim his frog either, he seems to take care of that himself, right now he is shedding his sole and frog. The farrier only trims the frogs if he puts shoes on(don't know why) OR they are very ragged. I am very impressed with his CG depth, he hasn't had any for years! I looked at some of his other threads and yes they have really come a long ways...considering everything! |
| Member: rtrotter |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2010 - 7:46 am: Thanks. I have been enjoying him very much (for the most part) Hank IS Hank! But he is sound and his hooves look very pretty for him. (about as pretty as they get anyway)
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| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: canter |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 7, 2010 - 7:30 am: Farrier came yesterday, it was so blasted cold and we were so busy with "farm" things I didn't pay much attention when he started trimming Hank. Thought the guy had instructions down by now! I was standing there holding Hank, my mind 100 mi away, well actually 200 if you know what I mean LOL. Anyway I hear this squeaking sound and looked and there he was with the NIPPERS hacking away Too late I thought, he was done with one hoof and on the second, so didn't say anything until he was done. Not kidding I was so cold I didn't even look at his hooves and ran in the house when he was done. Looked out the window later and Hank was moving GREAT Wonder if his hoof is normal enough to handle nippers now???? I'll have a look at them this afternoon when I get home, but the farrier did comment the his WL was looking really good Wonder if Mr. Hank finally has a "normal" hoof? ( I have been ignoring them lately) Very excited!!
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| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 7, 2010 - 8:05 am: Glad that turned out o.k.! It is very bitterly cold here too, and the ground is very rough from all the rain before it got cold. Mine our gingerly picking their way through the battle field.Just curious, why are you having the farrier out? I thought you were keeping them in shape with a rasp? Did you get behind? Hint, it is warmer to trim than stand there holding the horse, lol! I learned the hard way last week not to go past 3 weeks with my 3; Waaay too much to take off with just a rasp especially when the hoofs are super hard this time of year. I did 2, and didn't get to Tango yet and he's the hardest. Crap, was that a mistake with the windchills keeping the temp around zero or lower! Maybe hubby can hold a heater by you and you can get a picture of Hank's new & improved hoof?!
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| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 7, 2010 - 5:51 pm: Yes I had fallen behind AGAIN. Hank really isn't having much trouble with flaring any more, he still has a bit of a toe flare..I think. I peeked quickly tonight when he was eating supper and they do look pretty good Farrier squared his toe... he's never done that even tho I have asked him to a bazillion times I will try to get pics in the next couple days. He is walking on the hard ground well, we do have 7 in. of snow so the only hard jagged ground is the path's they walk, but he looks good on that and isn't trying to avoid it. |
| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2011 - 6:52 pm: A little update since I had to visit this to see when the farrier was here last. Hank is having a decent winter, he went through a couple days of tippy toeing when the snow went away and the jagged ice/ground appeared. We still have that ground and he is tolerating it well, and I even saw him trot on it tonight. I have been a bad mom and haven't touched his hooves or even looked at them much since the farrier was here I took a good look at them tonight and he could use a light trim and bevel, but the amazing thing is his hoof is finally learned to "hold" it's shape rather than splatting out a week after a trim. His hoof looked pretty good tonight, the toe really hasn't gone a rampage, and the flaring for the most part is staying under control especially since his sole is wet all the time Dr.O. would this mean that maybe he doesn't have permanent damage from all his problems since his hoof now holds it shape like a "normal" horse? |
| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 16, 2011 - 2:53 pm: Here are some pics of Hank maintaining himself this winter, I have not touched his hoof since the farrier was here Dec. 6 so over 6 weeks. He could definitely use a touch up, but for Hank and a constantly wet hoof, not bad for mister platter hoof He does have his winter toe callous, the hole at 2 o clock is where the vet dug out his abscess month's ago. wonder why that isn't filled in yet? He is sound on the hard ground again. I ran the riders rasp around so you could he where his outside hoof wall is and rolled his toe a bit. I need to get after the bars and the flares. Over all I think he is doing a good job. I think I will have the farrier this week, we are suppose to get snow mon. He is doing an ok job now, and I would much rather he do it then me at least in this weather OH and the dreaded blob (I hated that thing!) remains GONE!   
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| Member: vickiann |
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| Member: scooter |
Posted on Sunday, Jan 16, 2011 - 4:07 pm: It better not turn into another Blob that's all I can say I think he had that abscess in July, you'd think it would have filled in since then, it wasn't THAT deep...probably another blob in the making, that's where his WL used to take a detour away from the blob...HMMMM I hope not! I am going to have the farrier rasp back through it and see what happens. |
| Member: vickiann |
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