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Discussion on Outdoor Arena Construction Has Begun
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 - 11:16 am:
After what seems like years and is only 18 months, the outdoor arena construction started Tuesday afternoon. Happy, happy day.
120' x 300' outdoor, uncovered arena.
Compacted FLAT clay base to 1/10 of 1%.
I have reread Diane's and everybody else's posts regarding arena footing, base, and subbase.
Now the question. What happens if I mix sand (bank sand w/ fines) and powdered lime in a 50/50 mix without a base? Which is just dumping the sand/lime footing on top of the compacted clay.
Keeping in mind, the arena is for my use. I do not own/operate a commercial barn. I won't be renting it out for rodeos and such! Heavy traffic on the arena probably won't happen. Perhaps a few clinics a year with 40 horses or less.
Keeping in mind, I don't want to spend a fortune. I cannot afford to buy several inches of stone to compact as a base on top of the clay subbase pad. That would probably cost 12K. I have access to other base materials such as crushed concrete or asphalt; however, the cost of using it and transporting it is several thousand dollars.
I do not want soup for footing like Diane mentioned in one of her observations about sand footing.
Diane seems to have had good luck with her private arena with just using limestone powder for footing, no base, and compacted clay as a subbase. She and I have the same climate here in the midwest and roughly the same soil; however, she is further north and it seems to be colder where she is longer than where I am--but not terribly so.
The commercial outdoor arenas in my area have used crushed limestone/ag lime as bases and then used sand w/ fines as footing for western disciplines. These arenas of course have heavy traffic, cutting horses, calves, broncs, barrel racers, roping, etc. as well as rail classes.
Hmm. Thoughts anyone? Those of you with outdoor arenas, what do you think?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 - 11:18 am:
Yesterday dirt moving.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 - 11:20 am:
Yesterday dirt moving.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 - 5:30 pm:
Vicki I think dumping the footing on the base would work IF your clay is anything like ours....cement like. One thing that worked out very well is the clay base(was compacted got to be out in the weather for awhile before I added the footing, I think that "cooking" time really helped it to settle and I have had absolutely not one problem with the clay base.
You sure get a big arena I wish I could have made mine that big!!!! This year is the first year I really didn't have to do anything to the arena it took care of itself, even with our flooding rains and then VERY hot temps. I do have to drag it occasionally as sometimes the lime will pack down after a couple good rains, but I think I dragged it a total of 3 times this year When it is VERY dry for a long time it can get dusty, but I think any of it will other than rubber.
I can ride in my arena the next day after a good rain... I have nothing bad to say about the lime footing at all, it is VERY weather proof! I have always wonder what sand would be like mixed with it, I'm not sure if I'd like it or not, it would keep the lime a little "looser" I think.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 21, 2010 - 8:10 pm:
Thanks for posting Diane! I'm glad to hear that your clay subbase has held up just fine and that the lime footing is a winner.
I think I'm going to put just the sand w/ fines footing on it this fall and see how it goes (less $ out of pocket). In the spring if I have sand soup, I'll add limestone to dry it up and tighten it up. The husband thinks this is ok--knowing that if I have soup, he'll be redoing it and listening to me whine.  So we'll see if Mr. Site Work Man creates a subbase that water runs off of and keeps the footing from being soup!
Our clay is absolute rock cement. However, with the dry, dry summer and fall, it is working nice. Because there is so little moisture in the clay, it is rolling up nice--not pulling up giant boulder size hunks of wet clay. This has greatly speeded up the dirt moving. They are almost done moving dirt. One more day and we'll be compacting.
Hopefully there won't be much settling on the north end of the arena over the winter. The south end was cut out and the dirt moved north to flatten the arena grade. Husband says the dirt moving equals about 150 triaxle loads of dirt. ! Sure glad I didn't have to buy 150 loads of dirt.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 7:33 am:
Let me know how the sand works out. I figured if I couldn't use the arena a few days I didn't really care, just go trail riding. I have never had more than a day it wasn't useable after a good rain. Next year will tell the tell. We had to do a few tweaks the first spring, but that was because of the run off from the hill, once we got the berm around that corner that stopped and no more problems.
I would be a little worried about the sand on top of the clay, I had a feeling the water would seep into the clay and make it wet for days. I do have a light base of lime, with lime on top for footing. One small spot has gotten down to pretty much clay without the lime sub base and to tell you the truth I like that spot the best as far as footing...it does stay wet much longer tho. We just don't use that spot after a hard rain. I was going to fix it this fall but decided to wait until next year. What are you going to use for a fence?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 7:57 am:
Lucky girl! Sounds like it will be just wonderful when it's done.
I have a small grass arena. It's some kind of tough turf grass. My husband asked for the toughest grass the garden center sold and came home with a tiny bag for like $75.00! It does get rough if I use it when it's soft but for my purpose it works. Only complaint is horses and grass = head going down at times when they're supposed to be working.
Looking forward to the "DONE" pictures!
Enjoy!
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 10:40 am:
Well plans have changed. Big surprise. Husband finally deigned to look at the drawings I had gotten from the internet. There will be 3/10ths of fall which is 12" of fall from south to north in the 300 foot arena. A 1% slope recommended by many sites just seems too much as it is a DrOp of 3 feet from south to north. I rode that last fall on my "draft" arena and I hated it. "Really up and down hill. So husband is now cutting the almost flat arena to 3/10th fall to the north. He isn't real happy but he has no one to blame but himself as he would NOT look at my plans. Just jumped in moving dirt. Further, I think I will cash in a retirement acct to do the dang base correctly. Why go to all of this trouble and time to probably redo it... I'd like to have lime compacted to 4" so that might cost the 9 - 12K I was talking about. It's a sore subject but I think the foot dragging site work husband is finally seeing that this isn't just shave a spot off, dump some sand on it, and the wife will shut up. Till she can't ride on it...and he's redoing it. Stay tuned. Plans develop around here as we go.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 10:47 am:
I'm with you Diane. I asked the husband repeatedly to explain to me how this clay base would shed water when it is dry as dry can be right now and will soak up moisture (snow and rain soon) and be a pile of peanut butter with sand on it. I think he is just hates the idea of doing it so starts doing what he think will appease me and now that he has committed 3 1/2 days, machines, and manpower it has become a project and so why waste such an input? Do it right. I can tell you one thing. The fence won't be done this year. I'll be lucky if he's talking to me any time soon. LOL The thing to do is always appeal to his professional construction pride...would he want anyone to see what "he built" looking like crap...NO. Which is why my barn became a bigger project at his choice than was originally planned. It becomes HIS project and showcase which is fine by me!!! I just haven't gotten to that point yet that this arena will be his "piece of work" not my nagging request...LOL
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 5:31 pm:
I'm finally figuring out why Diane's lime was so cheap per ton. It is probably lime screenings. The by product after lime stone has been screened...the dust so to speak. Particles 3/16" or smaller. The screenings are used for many applications, one of which is arena base material. It is cheaper than the Dolomitic Lime and High High Calcium, hydrated, Lime prices of about 8.00 and 10.00 per Ton plus delivery I had been quoted from our local quarries. Sheesh. Bad news for me is there is a major road project through our state and our quarries are making a fat profit selling the screenings for 3x the usual price to the state as backfill. Super. The Lime we use for Aglime (all can be used), is the Dolomitic I believe, because I know I've paid $7.00+ per T to our dealer. Sigh. There is just no way I'm going to let husband ignore the base. Wish me luck ladies. This could take as long to finish as it did to start...!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 5:57 pm:
YUP I think you got it right and it does work wonderful for a base. My hubby says it is ag lime I use, but it does seemed to be screened, just small particles of lime left in it. Has the consistency of thick sand.... not powdery at all and pack like cement in the right conditions!. The last time we got lime it had gone up to $5 a ton. Hard to believe it would cost you so much, enough lime for the base cost us around $500, your arena is double the size of mine so I would think $1000-$2000 would do the base?????
I had to convince my hubby too, he wanted me to just use the clay!!
Good Luck!!!!
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Oct 22, 2010 - 7:52 pm:
oh the joys of putting in arenas... DO I RIGHT FIRST .. or you will be doing it again... we put down 6 inches of base.. a road base which works fine BUT there are rocks from it that will surface with time and riding on it... does it bother me NO.. i ride dressage the rocks are no big deal..
HAVE FUN
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Oct 25, 2010 - 11:20 pm:
Well ladies, I think victory has been declared. There will be an appropriate #73 stone base with some lime on top of that. Then the sand. It has been exhausting getting everybody here at home "on board", but we have finally made it.
Final grade of the sub base is complete. Grass sown on banks and strip around outside of arena. Come on RAIN! I need some rain to further facilitate compaction of the sub base and then it will be time for the stone. I'm over the moon with joy.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Monday, Oct 25, 2010 - 11:20 pm:
Grade is 3/10th slope.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2010 - 6:43 am:
Sounds much better Vicki. The settling rain is headed your way! Can't wait for pics of the finished product. BTW how is Diva and her hooves doing?
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2010 - 6:59 am:
Diane the darn rain keeps missing us!!! We were supposed to get some starting midnight...not here yet! But we do have lots of rain! Now it's supposed to be here at 9 am. I hope so.
Hooves are good. Trimmer comes tomorrow. Still tender, thinner soles, but I'm happy with the progress.
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Member:
kpaint
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2010 - 9:19 pm:
We did get 1/2". Yay for that. Beautiful sunshine 65 degrees by the middle of the afternoon. Very windy and stormy in the am. Compaction...just around the corner.
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