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Discussion on De-worming/Feeding Rescue Horse
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2010 - 5:06 pm:
Hi DrO,
I have a 30 month old QH filly arriving home tomorrow who is a rescue and has no medical history. She has been through a couple of auctions and I will be bringing her home from a large herd that always has new horses coming and going. In this case would you suggest I have a fecal done prior to de-worming her? She is currently on free choice grass hay round bales, which is what I would consider 'maintenance' quality. I would put her body condition at about 4.5, although she has a large belly, so looks 'fat'. I have some similar hay at home for my 'easy keeper' that I plan to start her out on. I was then going to gradually start giving her some good quality 70% grass/30% legume mix along will some Complete feed (14% protein). Does this sound reasonable for a coming 3 yr old who is in her condition? I will take some pictures when I get her home tomorrow and post them.
Thank you,
Lee C
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 30, 2010 - 2:41 pm:
Here she is 10 mins after arriving home this morning.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 30, 2010 - 3:30 pm:
Pretty girl with a lot of potential.  I'll let Dr. O comment on her feed, but just thought I'd say I'm glad she's going to have a good home with you.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 30, 2010 - 10:20 pm:
Hello Lee,
Yes I would have a fecal done and yes that seems like a reasonable feeding plan.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 30, 2010 - 11:29 pm:
Thanks Dr O, I will have it done next week. Her first two poops this morning were splattery cow pies, but they have been forming throughout the day and are nearly normal as of tonight. I'm thinking stress and the slightly different hay. They are the same colour as my 2 healthy horses and contain only chewed hay as far as I can see...
Thank you Sara. She is very sweet and seems to learn quickly - I'm excited to watch her transform.
Lee C
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 31, 2010 - 12:26 am:
It's always a joy to see them develop into the horse they were meant to be! Good luck with her.
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Member:
lara
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Posted on Friday, Dec 31, 2010 - 11:54 am:
Shes beautiful Lee
Happy New Year
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Friday, Dec 31, 2010 - 12:04 pm:
Dr O I was just reading through the 'rehabing the malnourished horse' article and I have a question about the deworming. When you say, '•Begin with a � dose of a good quality benzimadazole paste dewormer like Panacur or Anthelcide or a � dose of a pyrantel-based dewormer like Strongid paste.', how much do you mean when you say 'dose' (I get a little box in front of the word dose when I view the article)?
Thank you,
Lee
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Dec 31, 2010 - 4:26 pm:
Hi Lee, I think "dose" refers to the amount you would give the horse in a normal situation. A dose is figured by the weight of the horse, plus about 15 per cent I think. The amount is then calculated based on the wormer product. The paste wormers have the weight calibrated on the plunger. When I get a weanling with no history of worming, I start with half a dose of strongid. If the baby weighs 500 pounds, that's a dose calibrated to a about 575 pounds. The extra is for the amount that will possibly be lost or spit out. If that's tolerated, I do a whole dose a week later and repeat the process with Ivermectin in two weeks. Babies are a bit harder to clear of worms than adults. Just watch and if she tolerates the first dose you're probably safe.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Dec 31, 2010 - 4:28 pm:
Oh Lee, I forgot to add, I do a half dose first, so if the dose weight is 500 pounds, the usual dose would be for 575 pounds. I halve this and give the amount for about 300 pounds. I think that's what the "box" you're seeing may be--the word or symbol for 1/2 (half).
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 1, 2011 - 11:57 am:
1/2 is right. If you are going to have to wait until next week to get the fecal run, go ahead and collect it, put it in the fridge, and then deworm the horse. I would not make the horse wait for the test.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 1, 2011 - 8:06 pm:
Thanks Julie, DrO. Noticing that her poops are still not completely formed - still quite soft, some more than others. I managed to get her so I could check out her tail today. She has older manure stuck through it as well as some fresher frozen stuff. Makes me wonder if this has been going on for awhile. She is bright eyed, eating and drinking well. Drinking more than my other 2, but not alarmingly more at this point I don't think (about 1.5 gals to every 1 of theirs).
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Monday, Jan 3, 2011 - 7:20 pm:
Results of the fecal were positive for ascarids and strongyles.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 4, 2011 - 2:54 pm:
And how strongly positive were the fecals? Heavy burdens suggest care with the initial deworming, lighter burdens suggest you go ahead and deworm with a full dose of ivermectin.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2011 - 12:01 am:
My vet felt it was safe to go ahead with a full dose - so far she seems to be tolerating it fine. She noted that the hay particles in her manure are quite coarse and she should have her teeth checked. Will start working towards handling her head and mouth, so this won't be so scary for her.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2011 - 4:17 pm:
Good news on the fecals Lee. But concerning the relationship between the coarseness between the stools and the condition of the teeth there is recent research to suggest that their may be less there than previously thought. For more on this see HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Equine Dentistry.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2011 - 3:16 pm:
Hmmm - interesting information to ponder regarding the teeth. When I was a kid our horses never saw a vet for anything and their teeth were never looked at - they were always fat and sassy...
I'm sure I read it on HA somewhere, but I can't find the information about how long before de-wormer kills the worms and if they will be visible in the manure... Is there info here about that somewhere?
Thank you,
Lee C
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2011 - 3:49 pm:
Hi Lee, I think it depends on what stage the worms happen to be when they're killed whether or not you can see them. In my experience, I've only seen the large (about 4 inches long) white ones and they seem to show up within about 48 hours. I've only seen more than a few one time and that was in a weanling. I'm not sure you would see the other types of worms. I have seen the bot larva and that too was in about a 24-72 hour time frame after ivermectin or moxidectrin.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 8, 2011 - 5:56 pm:
Lee you will find images and descriptions of the worms at HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Parasites and Worms. Julie's numbers are about what I see most of the adult parasites will be dead within 3 days.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 8, 2011 - 8:29 pm:
Well, speak of the little devils and they appear... At least the first I've spotted in the snow covered, usually frozen manure. Found what I believe to be one large strongyle - red worm about an inch long (just like the picture). Also two pinworms (I think) white and about an inch long - so they boy ones, or immature girls?? Oddly, my husband and I are very excited about the arrival of them - I guess the knowing that they are dying...
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2011 - 8:56 am:
Lee, the appearance of worms in the stools means little with respect to efficacy of the deworming. A low egg count just prior to the next deworming is the gold standard.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2011 - 10:45 am:
Dr.O. does the appearance of worms after de-worming mean that the burden was high?
I have never seen worms in my horses manure after de-worming and I do look
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2011 - 8:23 am:
Not necessarily Diane but the more there are the more likely you are to see adult parasites.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 - 9:45 am:
Since she seemed to tolerate the de-worming well, I started the switch over to the better hay and she's up to 2 lbs/day of grain. We're at day 4 of introducing and her runny poops didn't increase through it - actually her manure has been 'normal' horse piles for 3 days now - yay! She seems to be feeling better - is now curious about me and will approach and follow me. When she first arrived she would not even look at me and was apprehensive when I approached her. She now canters in her paddock with her tail in the air and shakes her head playfully.
How long might it takes for her belly to decrease in size? Just wondering at one point I should consider something else could be going on there - like she's pregnant
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 - 10:28 am:
So glad your filly seems to be feeling better, and kicking up her heels, Lee.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2011 - 4:33 pm:
It may take months for a grass belly to improve but as to pregnancy, it should be checked next time the vet is out if you think she might be pregnant.
DrO
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2011 - 5:54 pm:
Although I was joking, I suppose it's not impossible that she might be. I have not been able to find out much about where she's been over this past year. I have her papers, but the transfer of ownership is not up to date on them.
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Member:
leec
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 15, 2011 - 12:55 pm:
Now that I can actually feel her all over, I would put her b/s at a 3 not the 4.5 that I guessed upon observation (winter coat doesn’t help). Her shoulder is bony, neck is thin, wither, spine and tailhead pronounced and very little fat between her ribs. I am curious, is there a calculation to guesstimate how many pounds she would have to gain to put her at a b/s of 6? Does anyone have any experience with this? She is currently a shade under 15hh and I’ve taped her weight at 966 lbs. I am thinking she will be a big girl when she fills out/is done growing.
Lee C
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