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  Discussion on Wire fencing of multiple strands
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Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Mar 11, 2011 - 7:50 pm:

Dr. O,

Without my seeing the place my husband and I just bought a farm in the mountains that had previously been used for llamas.

I had thought that the fencing was all wire mesh with very small openings plus some areas of board fencing.

My husband didn't look at the place with a knowing eye as to horse safety. . .

The perimeter fencing for much of the pastures is chain link (no hot wire).

All of the cross fencing (and there is a lot of it) and some of the perimeter fencing consists of multiple strands of wire that the owner put up.

The top wire is around 5' high and then there is another wire placed every 5" - 6" apart -- 10, 12 or more of them.

The owner describes this as "forgiving" but llamas and horses are different species.

Most of the wires are fairly tight with some kind of tightening gizmos here and there. It is loose in very few places. There are also some metal tie rods that come down through some of the wires here and there.

None of it is electrified and it would be impossible to do this as each wire is stapled to each post with a metal staple.

I need to figure out how to make this safe for my horses!

Maybe I need to take down all of the cross fencing and put no-climb around any perimeter areas which are not chain link?

My guys have been known to put their back legs through or under my board fences causing injuries in the past, though none serious.

They are all getting pretty old now but they still run around pretty good at times and this farm has a lot of sloping going on in the pastures.

One of the pastures also has 6 or 8 badger holes (some appear to perhaps join together underground -- a colony?) in one of the pastures so need to figure out what to do about them.

We bought this place thinking it was going to be easy to simply bring my horses there next month in order to enjoy the cooler mountain climate for the summer with lots of great riding nearby and now I am worried about what to do!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2011 - 7:50 am:

Hello Vicki,
First let me state the obvious, nothing will be safe, a horse can hurt himself on a excellently built 4 board wooden fence but there are some high risk elements to the fence you describe. Let's start with the chain link fence. The biggest safety problem here is if there are sharp wires sticking up from the top of the fence. More recently chain link fence is usually manufactured with these wires turned down. If sticking up, they will need to be covered.

As long as you don't need separate pastures I see nothing wrong with your suggestion of just removing the cross fencing and finishing the perimeter with No-Climb.

If cross fencing is desirable I am still not sure what might be best and much depends on the quality and condition of the existing materials.

Perhaps most important is the gauge of the wire that is put up? Is it light smooth wire or a heavy gauge galvanized high tensile type wire? If the former I would scrap it and start over. If the latter and the posts of good quality, I think I would reduce the number of wires to 4 or 5 and convert it to a electrified high tensile fence. My reasoning concerning reducing the number of wires is that the close spacing may predispose to getting hung up but this is just a guess. Next would involve removing the staples and installing insulated wire "guides" which would support the wires but through which the wires can slide freely. You may have to reinforce the end posts to withstand the pull of a high tension wire before you put in wire tensioners and springs.

Note some folks feel very strongly that high tensile fence is not suitable for horses and I have seen it involved with significant injury when not well maintained. However I have found well built and maintained electrified high tensile relatively safe. I have it on my farm.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2011 - 9:43 am:

Thanks so much, Dr. O.

Your response pretty well mirrors my thoughts on this entire situation and I truly appreciate the detailed manner in which you have responded.

Also, it is extremely helpful with regard to convincing my husband about the seriousness of this situation.

We are going back out to the farm this morning to do a more thorough analysis of what needs to be done where.

Such surprises are never fun and obviously I should have gone to look at this set up before we decided to buy the farm, but it is beautiful so hopefully we can make everything work with some adjustments to the fencing and barn.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2011 - 9:59 am:

Hi Vickie. If the wire fencing is spaced far enough apart that a horse can't get caught in it, you could also run either a board or galvanized pipe across the top of the fencing to make it more visible and stronger. Our entire farm was fenced with what is called here " field fencing" which is made of four inch squares. The first thing we did is run 2" galvanized pipe across the top making a top rail. We have replaced the field fencing ad we've been able with "no climb" horse fencing, but with the top rail never had a problem with anyone getting stuck in the fence or pushing it over.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Mar 13, 2011 - 9:25 pm:

Thanks, Sara.

We returned home today (just under a 700 mile journey).

Improving the safety of the barn, runs from the barn into the pasture, the paddocks and fencing is going to be quite a project but we will have to do what it takes.

My husband will be headed back up there again to address these previously unanticipated issues.

And those were groundhogs, not badgers that have the big colony of holes in the pasture. We try not to ever kill any wildlife but may not have the luxury of time that live-trapping and removal would entail this time.

I also picked up some kind of nuts from one of the pastures and have to make a positive ID as to whether they are hickory nuts or black walnuts.

Moral of this story, don't buy a place for horses without a horse-savvy person looking carefully at the place first.

On the other hand if I had looked at the farm sooner we would have been aware of all of the things that needed to be fixed in advance and maybe we would not have made a deal to buy the place, but it really is truly beautiful with regard to tranquility, views, and amazing trail riding so we are still excited about our new adventure.

Award-winning llamas lived on this farm and thrived so apparently they are different than horses with regard to behavior.

Deer have sometimes gotten into trouble on account of the fencing used, however, including one that was recently found dead.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Mar 13, 2011 - 11:09 pm:

I suspected the animals burrowing were groundhogs or gophers. Badgers usually have a large burrow that goes under a rock or roots of a tree or something similar and are "loners" not in colonies. Before you poison or kill what is burrowing there make sure you positively identify it. In our part of he world at least there are high fines for killing the wrong kind of burrowing animals, and we have quite a few of them. You've probably figured out the nuts by now; black walnuts are easy to identify. You'll have to post pictures. I bet the place is pretty and will be well worth the work.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Mar 14, 2011 - 3:03 pm:

I don't know why I got badgers in my brain because I knew they were groundhogs. Just tired, I guess.

Here in Florida I have a gopher tortoise burrow in my back horse pasture and many on the acreage where cattle are kept. The horses know that the burrow is there and work around it but it does worry me. Tortoises are really hard to move as the burrows can be 6 - 8' deep and up to 50' long though that is longer than average.

More animals of all kind are increasingly being pressed onto my Florida farm.

A developer across the road paid the state to relocate almost 50 gopher tortoises off of his 90 acres that is being developed but I think some of them crawled over to my place due to the heavy machinery.

We will be careful about not breaking the law and have a rule about not killing or poisoning any kind of animal and would do so only as a last resort.

The mountain farm is very peaceful and in spite of the work and expense it will be great to get out of the heat and humidity and to a really quiet setting.

Last summer my friends and I quit riding for a couple of months here in Florida because of the heat and then didn't ride a couple of months this winter because of the cold.

My hope is that I will be doing a lot of riding and horse camping this summer.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Mar 14, 2011 - 7:04 pm:

Sounds wonderful! Here we have problems with Prairie Dogs. Ours are evidently endangered, although I don't see how they can be; there are thousands of them. They are protected, however, with Federal fines if we move them without expensive permits and don't even think about killing them. They are really cute, but very destructive.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 - 2:50 pm:

Endangered Sara?Those cute animals that stuck their heads up by the dozen in that field that looked as if it was a bunch of Dunes? Then I guess our squirrels are endangered too and Urfee's hunting is illegal!
And what IS a gopher Tortoise? Does it have anything to do with a desert tortoise with those funny low gates around the mountains outside Las Vegas?
Jos
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 - 4:56 pm:

Jos, yes if you can believe it!! You'd never know it from the looks of the golf course and local fields though!
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 - 5:51 pm:

The gopher tortoise is an endangered species that shares their elaborate burrows with many other species, common and rare.

They are a land tortoise as opposed to a turtle that dwells in a watery environment.

They eat plants and grasses and seldom drink water at all.

They are endangered because their habitat is uplands -- best place to plant houses.

They live up to about 100 years but few hatchlings survive because so many species like to eat them, including humans -- though this is now illegal.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 - 11:31 pm:

Thanks Vicky! The first word Gopher confused me!
And Sara I bet the time will come that you aren't allowed to trailride anymore as the horse could step on a prairiedog!
Jos
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 16, 2011 - 7:36 pm:

I guess that they are called gopher tortoises because they live in burrows.

They're really pretty cool creatures.

Sometimes individuals come around my barn looking for food to eat.

They love to eat cut up carrots and I used to have one that would sometimes come and eat the trimmings from the horse's hooves when the farrier came. Guess it may have been looking for some specific nutrients.
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