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Discussion on Prepurchasing an older horse
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Monday, Aug 1, 2005 - 3:59 pm:
I was wondering what special considerations I should take for a prepurchase exam of a 15 year old horse. He is a 14.3 HH qtr/paint that will be a kids horse to do lessons, trails and some little jumps. He seems very "young " for his age. Moves with plenty of freedom. I figure some basic flexion tests and firm ground trotting to rule out any obvious arthritis. What about teeth, colic, eyes and other old horse type ailments. I honestly haven't dealt with age related problems much.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Monday, Aug 1, 2005 - 4:13 pm:
What? 15 is a great age! Definitely not geriatric yet. Based on my own experience with several horses I've owned in this age range, I would not hesitate to purchase a horse of this age, especially for kids. Good luck!
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Member:
Redalert
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Posted on Monday, Aug 1, 2005 - 8:00 pm:
Shelley
I think what you've already suggested yourself would be great. The only other thing I might add would be a "history" of the wellness of the horse. I would just ask what the horse has required in the past to stay well and happy and perhaps a history of colics and vet care he has required! I gave an old, broodmare of mine to a friend to use in a lesson program for the beginners. The mare was 18, and she carried young riders around for 10 more happy years!
Nancy
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Member:
Heidim
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Posted on Monday, Aug 1, 2005 - 11:35 pm:
Finally, something I can write with authority on! I've purchased many older horses for my kids. Forgive my negativity, but I've been taken several times by seemingly honest folks. If you know the ones you're dealing with, you may not need to do what I suggest but here goes in case you don't:
1) Insist on having your own vet examine the animal. I've had a seller's vet lie to me when I purchased my first horse and I was only 16 years old at the time.
2) Ask the vet to check the horse's age! While it gets harder to tell by the teeth as they grow older, make sure you aren't just buying a peppy or well grained 20-something-year-old.
3) Ask what the horse eats daily. An animal that has trouble maintaining weight may have a simple tooth problem or something more serious going on.
4) You mentioned only the horse's physical well-being, but be sure and investigate its training as well. Test what the seller is saying against what you see to be true. A well-broke older horse is a pleasure; one with hit-and-miss training can be frustrating to ride and retraining rarely works if the kids are to ride it. I've met plenty of people who tried to pass off a horse as "kid broke," just because it's older. Also beware of a horse that is "trail broke." This often means the horse knows how to follow another horse on the trail, but balks or throws a fit when the rider tries to ride independently.
5) Have the horse checked for heaves, which can be easily masked with medication. Navicular is something else to watch out for, as it can affect an otherwise healthy horse.
Hope I haven't scared you off--just want to make sure you walk into a purchase with your eyes wide open. My daughter now rides a 15-year-old mule, and they are the best of buds. I wish you the best with whatever you end up with.
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 12:03 am:
Wow, great advice.
I heard cataracts are also a concern. He is a pretty light bodied horse, so I will get more specific about his diet. He did colic 2 winters ago, got through it with an oiling and some banamine and was good the next morning. His known history doesn't go back more than 3 years.
He just recently had shoes put on so I will have the vet look real close at his feet. We are getting a 2 week trial with him which I am thrilled about. The only thing I am really worried about so far is the colic, but that is because I just lost a pony that had coliced several times a year for the last 6 years and I really don't want to go there again. The owner is very open and talkative about her horse and I don't think she is keeping any secrets.
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Member:
Sylvy
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 1:01 am:
I'm glad you got a trial period set up. Looking for a horse is a real buyer beware situation. I can think of three cases in the last year where people have been misled. Two were cases of horses not suitable for children (dangerous vices) and one with severe arthritis even though it was vet checked. The fellow that's breaking my young horse said that there is a 30 day return period. This is in Canada. I didn't know this, is this in force in the States?
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 11:43 am:
Shelley,
I hope you have good luck buying this horse. I hate horse shopping myself because I just don't trust anyone after having so many bad experiences. People's idea of what a "kids horse" is really seems to vary. I think Heidi's 4th point above is fantastic advice.
Just this morning my daughter fell of a "kids horse". This mare is owned by her best friend and I've known of the mare for about 6 yrs. The friend takes lessons on this mare from the same lady my daughter takes lessons from. The trainer has praised this horse many times. This horse is about 12 yrs old, seems like a good ol' girl.
Well, after my daughter fell off, I rode this mare for the first time. I was not impressed, my green broke gelding handles better. We were going to board this mare here so the girls could ride together. Now I am not so sure. She may walk along quietly in the arena and even on trails. But she did not move away from my leg, did not back easily, and in fact got an attitude with me when I asked her to work. And whoa, well, that wasn't very good either. Of course she is being rode in a hackmore as her teeth need work. But still......
I am looking for a new horse for my daughter, a "kids horse". I will take both this trainer/instructor with me if we find one, as well as my farrier to check for soundness and tell us what he sees as far has legs/feet and conformation.
Take your time and good luck!!!
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 12:30 pm:
Yeah, I've found that some kid's horses are so spoiled and lazy that when you get an adult on them that wants some work they can get a real attitude. It's like your changing the rules on them and they are not happy about it. We are picking him up this evening so wish me luck.
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 1:33 pm:
In defense of older horses and of "kid friendly" horses, I agree that there are many horses out there that are not truly kid friendly, and it is usually because the sellers know very little about what kid friendly really means. Its not that they are trying to hide something, its that they have no idea. That is where it is helpful to have an experienced horse person come with you when you horse shop.
That said I have to sing praises for the many truly kid friendly horses that are out there that aren't "perfect" horse show types but are still very useful. I used to run a lesson stable and I have to tell you, some of the very best lesson horses I had were virtually impossible to ride for experienced riders (including me). I didn't care about that because what they were good at made them worth their weight in gold. I had one horse that would only canter on one lead, and no one, no matter how experienced a rider, could circle this horse at the canter. However, this little horse had the smoothest canter in the world and would canter around the arena with the reins looped, kids with heels up and gripping, bottoms bouncing in the saddle, hands bouncing even more, and the didn't break stride or change his pace until you told him to whoa, at which point he always did. I taught everyone to canter on this little horse, and then when they were good enough at canter I would move them onto other horses who may not have been as forgiving with all the bouncing, but who steered beautifully with a balanced rider.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, horses have niches in life and the important thing is to find a horse that can fill the niche you need. If you want a really and truly kid broke horse that also understands the subtle nuances of a more advanced rider, be prepared to spend a large sum of money. Most kid broke horses are very dull in the mouth and ribs and don't steer very well at all. If they sensitive enough to steer well, every "accidental aid" a child gave would send the horse flying.
Older horses who have only taught beginners have had a lot of hard miles and are totally imperfect creatures. If the horse doesn't buck, bolt, rear or spook and you can put a child on the horse without a lead line attached, you already have a horse that is well worth its weight in gold.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 2:39 pm:
Very well said, Debbie. I think my comment above (way at the top) was terribly oversimplifying the subject. I only meant that I (and this is a personal opinion) don't consider a horse at age 15 to be old....and that if it is a healthy horse and kid-safe, it may yet provide many good years of service. It seems that kid-safe considerations and older horse health issues are two very different subjects, both of which are being discussed here.
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 3:16 pm:
Yes Terri and agree with your post. I have purchased many a horse in its teens and even several in their twenties knowing fully well that they had serious health issues and arthritis, just because I needed something I could really and truly trust with small children.
They are truly wonderful and in my mind, are every bit as valuable as (if not more valuable than!) the fanciest of fancy show horses.
God bless them all!
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Member:
Heidim
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 4:12 pm:
I agree that unsoundness is worth considering in a horse if all the other lights say "go." Our kids' first "big mule" (13.3 hands) came with arthritis in his back. He limped a bit, and we had to bute him for rides over two hours but what a gem! Both of my kids learned to canter and neck rein on him. Some people overlook horses that direct rein only, but our kids' very first mount, a 10-hand Shetland mare, helped them develop their seats. She'd been part of an eight-pony hitch, which explains the direct reining, and so knew how to behave by the time she became a childs' mount. I could have sold Susannah 20 times over, but she just never lost her job (and, miraculously, never foundered on full pasture either). Both of these "imperfect" mounts have since gone on to the Great Pasture in the Sky and will be long remembered for serving a greater purpose.
When purchasing a first horse for a kid, my advice is "safety first." That means finding a truly quiet and well behaved mount, and insisting that the kids wear helmets. Again, good luck!
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 6:07 pm:
Debbie,
you make a good point about experienced riders and kid broke horses. My husband wants a horse that goes forward, right, left, and stops for him. BORING!!! What about side passing, turning on the forehand, backing softly and taking the correct lead? I am supposed to find a horse for him to ride and our daughter to continue learning on. He learned on a wonderful Arab mare who was great. The kids learned on her in the corral, and we could ride her anywhere on the trails. She could be as peppy as needed, or calm as needed. She was level headed and did all the above high school moves. Unfortunately she has passed on, and after being spoiled by her these so called "kid broke horses" don't cut it for me. But I see now it's not about my way of riding. Not only will Shelley have all this advice to help her, but my husband will thank you all too.
Hmmm....anyone got a horse for us? I'll trade 2 for 1. Yea, I know, post under "classifieds & Ads"
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 2, 2005 - 11:11 pm:
Very enlightening Debbie, and it does make sense when I think of all the lesson horses at the barn where my daughter takes lessons. I guess we expect too much from some kids horses when they are already packing our little ones around safely. We have our new prospect home and he whinnied once and settled in. I will get on him tomorrow and try to be reasonable about what I expect of him. Thanks for the insight everyone.
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Member:
Brandi
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 1:38 am:
All this talk reminded me of this treasure. Isn't it true that they become so priceless. This tiny little thing could spend the night in his stall during a lightening storm and come morning would be 100% safe and sound--I'd bet my life on it. I have 2 other horses I love deeply, but this guys has that sixth sense, he knows children are to be protected. When his time has come, the hole in our hearts and lives will be immense. This is our Moon and he is one of those very exception creatures.
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Member:
Sylvy
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 2:36 am:
If anyone is looking for an older horse suitable for kids, themitchellcentre@telus.net has a couple. This way you can give a rescued horse a new home. There are lots of young ones there as well. People in Canada don't seem to want the young ones as much as they do in the States. The man who runs this Rescue Centre spends his life rescuing horses. Let's help him find some homes for them!!
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 7:19 am:
Brandi: what a gorgeous picture. Moon looks just so gentle and loving. Definitely one to cherish.
Lynn
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Member:
Green007
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 9:49 am:
I love Moon! What a good boy. The picture says it all.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 10:37 am:
Sylvia,
This guy is in Canada? Whereabouts?
Brandi,
He is so sweet. I so hope you see many more "Moons" of use outa him before he passes on to greener pastures.
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Member:
Sylvy
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005 - 12:43 pm:
Looking to provide a good home for young or an older horse for kids? Contact: Paul or Brenda Mitchell (403) 485-6085. Fax (403)485 6086. P.O. Box 1239, Vulcan Alberta TOL2BO e-mail themitchellcentre@telusplanet.net Hours: 10 - 6 Tuesday - Saturday.
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Member:
Rose15
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Posted on Friday, Jan 20, 2006 - 5:11 pm:
Moon looks like my 25 year old Zippo Pine Bar gelding we recently lost. He was a treasure, great in the show ring, safe with new or timid riders, a joy to be around in every way. The great ones leave a big hole in your hearts. I am now trying to find a new older safe gelding so I am reviewing all the information about pre
purchase exams. You can't replace the ones who have left us you just must start a new adventure
with another horse.
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Member:
Rose15
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 25, 2006 - 3:09 pm:
Hi.....just got the results back on blood panel for a 13 year old gelding. The creatinine level is .1 above normal and the calcium level is also
.1 above normal. The combination concerns me because of kidney problems in the future. Does anyone have some experience with this situation?
The rest of the blood work is normal. Other than
needing to put on some weight his overall condition is good and his disposition is excellent.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 26, 2006 - 6:36 am:
Rose you need to start in a new discussion rather than interrupting Shelly's for more see the posting rules. There is a link to the rules in every Post form.
DrO
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