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  Discussion on Huge Fly Problem - Help!!
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New Member:
Jeng

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 4:26 am:

I am living in Ireland and both myself and the horses are having an utterly miserable summer (and its our first summer in the new (previously perfect) house).

The flies (normal common flies) are horrendous and are making it impossible to ride or do much else. As I am starting up a livery yard this could be a major blow to future plans. There is a wood at the front of the property and I suspect that is the root cause of our problem.

I have heard great things about fly predators/parasites, but have not been able to find a company which ships to Ireland.

If anyone has any information that could help, please, please let me know.

Tks Jen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 6:48 am:

Hello Jenny,
Though I don't know of anyone shipping to Ireland I need to correct some misconceptions. If it truly is houseflies, the woods are not responsible for your problem. Instead manure and rotting matter, including rotting vegetation, is where they are breeding. If there is a lot of rotting vegetation in the woods, cleaning the woods would help. Making sure garbage is well covered, collecting up and composting manure and soiled bedding and covering the compost pile well will help.
DrO
Member:
Cara2

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 9:16 am:

Hi Jenny,

I live in Cheshire and we have had more than our fair share of flies too. I think it is a combination of a not cold enough winter and the high humidity we seem to be getting every summer now. I've never seen so many horseflies, and I've been bitten to pieces myself while I'm with my horse. I would suggest fly sheets and Dr O is right, keep all sources of new flies as clean as possible. My horse is in with 3 other ponies in about 2 acres which is split into 4 paddocks, and between us the field they are in is cleaned twice a day. This also gives the extra bonuses of more available grazing, less chance of worm infestation and though I say it myself, the paddocks look beautifully clean and tidy. The downside is that as soon as my horse sees me coming with the barrow and fork, she pounces on me to scratch all her itchy bits, ie. everywhere!
New Member:
Jeng

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 9:42 am:

Hi Dr.O, Helen,

Thank you for the responses. I certainly take on board everything you say in relation to manure management and we are doing our best to keep on top of that and our horses are clothed top to toe in 'Buzz-off'. However our immediate environment is absolutely perfect for fly breeding conditions.

Although where we are is clay/soil the surrounding areas are peat/bog land which provides a perfect wet, humid decaying environment for flies. The wood itself is 1.5 acres and is completely overgrown but would (when wet) be quiet boggy too, with plenty of decaying matter about. It'll be a huge job to clear it out but that is one of our plans of action.

Water drains from our land through the forest to the roadside, that presents another problem as I am not sure how I am going to get rid of the standing water.

So the idea is to go to war! Get the forest cleared out, use the parasites for eggs and fly traps for adults. And hope that this has some impact on the fly population over the coming years.

Thats if we can find a supplier!
Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 10:28 am:

good luck on your plan of attack!! I use the fly predators this year, and honestly have to say I did not notice a difference... I won't be using them again next season...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
Member:
Erika

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 10:50 am:

Ann, I have used the fly predators for a few years now. The first year I din't see any difference. The next year I tried again but with a different supplier. I think it's called Arbico. They give you twice as many as Spaulding Labs (for some reason the more popular supplier), plus detailed instructions on release.
The Arbico instructions said to make sure you release in the evening and scuff a hole with your heel, DrOp them in and cover loosely with dirt.
I found a big difference with that method over merely sprinkling them in manure areas. I guess birds and other bugs get them if you're not careful.
I have a "big stinky" fly trap that has gotten only a tiny handfull of flies all summer since I did the correct release with more predators.
It's a lot cheaper than fly spray, too!
Jenny, I don't know if either of these labs ship abroad, but there's a couple of names to start with. Good luck. I guess British flies are every bit as annoying as yankee flies!
New Member:
Jeng

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 17, 2005 - 11:39 am:

Hi Erica,

Thanks for the info, I have contacted Arbico and unfortunately its the same story. Although through my research I have come across another suppliers:

https://www.sourcebiofly.com/Prices.asp

They provide 500k parasites for $82 dollars
I think Arbico are about $100 more for 250k parasites(unless that was for multiple shipments).
Sure, give them a call and it might save you a few pennies.

It also sounds like your instructions to protect them before they get to work is correct (from some other research) they also sell release chambers (or something, they look like bird feed holders) which gives them a higher chance of survival.
Member:
Denise43

Posted on Thursday, Aug 18, 2005 - 10:37 am:

Hello Jenny - I sympathize completely with you! We live in Michigan and our area is very boggy, wet and moist. We have our share of Black flies, deer flies, horse flies etc., they each seem to have a season and die off and taper off by Mid July. However, it's the black manure/house flies that are the most problem to our horses. My fellow horse friend and I are also on a WAR to figure out a remedy. I can't stand to see our horses enclosed in the stall for 10 hours every day. As far as riding, we do so early in the a.m. or very late at nite and have managed to have some nice rides this year.
We have tried the Preditors for 5 years, with little results. This year we are trying the "Rescue Fly bags" to see if that helps. I have heard glowing reports on them and they are very cheap. You can buy them thru Valley vet or country supply. Aside from that, we use alot of Repel-X fly spray, wrap the front legs with polos and use fly masks. It seems to keep the horses comfortable here. We aren't done with our investigation and plan to continue trying different methods that may work. Hope some of this helps. Denise
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Thursday, Aug 18, 2005 - 1:45 pm:

We had terrible fly problems when we first moved to where we are now. Lots of sheep and cows in the area, which doesn't help.

We tried the little wasps, and I think they helped some, but what has helped the most are keeping things extremely clean and setting out fly traps. I clean stalls and pens at least once a day, and more if I have the time; pick up all the manure in the arena, and also keep all loose scraps of hay, bedding, etc. raked up. I try hard to keep the barn aisles clean, and pick up feed tubs after horses have eaten. Also, I try to keep water buckets in the stalls rinsed out and clean.

I use the big jug type fly traps and set them out away from the barns and pens. Sometimes I leave a little manure in the wheelbarrow and set a trap on top of it. It will fill up in a day! Since I've started doing all this I have very few flies, even though we've had an extremely wet summer.

None of the sprays I've tried are worth the money spent on them.
New Member:
Jeng

Posted on Friday, Aug 19, 2005 - 9:20 am:

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the responses. It sounds like most people have had limited success with the parasites, except for Ericka; well it doesn't make much difference as I can't get them here anyway.
I have looked up info about the Rescue Fly Traps and they do look very good. The problem is however is the same again, as to how I will buy them from Ireland. Very few of the US companies ship internationally.

Again if anyone from Ireland, England or even Europe has come across anything please let me know.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 19, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

You can construct your own fly traps as a rancher friend of mine does. He makes a square box about a foot or so high out of fine wire mesh. He puts a funnel of mesh at the top, with the funnel shape getting narrower as it goes down into the box. It goes down about half way into the mesh box. He baits this with rotten meat and sits it on a milk crate so it is about a foot or so off the ground. He has several of these around his hay barns, and barely a fly to be seen except for in the traps.
Member:
Meggles

Posted on Friday, Aug 19, 2005 - 5:13 pm:

Hi Jenny. I live in Derbyshire, in the UK, and have found the flies to be incredibly bad this summer, worse than I've known them. My mare actually got down and tried to roll with me on board only three weeks ago when riding as she was being attacked by flies so badly. I couldn't believe it, but as they actually draw big pools of blood on biting I think I'd have rolled too if they had been on me!

We trailer our horses out to nice places on a weekend to ride as we livery next to a busy road and I have to say that for the last 2 - 3 months, it doesn't matter where we've been in a 20 mile radius in any direction, the flies have been as bad everywhere. Its been a pretty miserable summer as a result - roll on Autumn! The only thing I've been able to do is bring my girl in during the day and put her out at night as a bit of relief.

I really hope you find a solution as your place sounds lovely otherwise.
Sarah
New Member:
Jeng

Posted on Monday, Aug 22, 2005 - 4:13 am:

Sara, Sarah,

Thanks very much for the posts. Its some comfort to hear that other places are experiencing the same difficulties this summer over my direction..perhaps its a freak year!

Sara very interesting to hear of the homemade fly trap, sometimes its easy to forget that some things can be done DIY style and a lot cheaper to boot.

I have actually found a company in the UK who sell the fly traps 'Rescue' so will give them a try.

Thanks everyone and I will keep you updated on progress.
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Monday, Aug 22, 2005 - 3:29 pm:

I've used fly predators, feed garlic, sprayed pyrethrum and never saw a difference in the number of flies on and around my horses and barn. I clean my stalls and paddock twice a day. I finally broke down and started using a feed through fly repellent. It's called Solitude IGA and it's made by Pfizer. It says it is safe to us in all stages of a horse’s life, including pregnant mares. I'm not sure about Stallions. (Maybe Dr. O can answer that question). I saw a drastic reduction in the fly population the first week, and now I only see an occasional new fly around the horses or barn. It inhibits the development of flies in manure. It's pricey but I usually spent about $15.00 a week on fly spray and dust. 6 lbs cost me about $75.00 plus shipping, but that is 196 doses and will last me three months for two horses. I will never go back to anything else.
Member:
Brandi

Posted on Monday, Aug 22, 2005 - 11:09 pm:

One more idea if you can get them is a fly strip called QuickStrike. It's like a "No Pest Strip", but bigger, a red rectangular plastic strip with holes, and yellow bait inside. I use it in the barn, near my manure cart (which is not always empty, I must admit), and though it is disgusting, it is the most rewarding of all of the remedies because the flies die so fast, that you will find the strip covered completely in just a few hours. It does have an attractant--if you choose to use it, so there can be a bit of a bad smell the first day or two, but if you place it on top of your manure cart like I do, all the attractant you need is already in that cart! Sometimes its disgusting seeing so many dead flies all around that area, but its so darned satisfying that I have to keep using them. They really seem to work best if you place them horizontally, though I've had trouble finding other good places to do that besides on top of the cart. It's not a complete solution, but it definitely helps. I use fly predators and have an overhead misting system, but with the latter being broken right now, I'm left with the QuickStrike and manual "spray-can" foggers (Farnam Home and Barn fogger which works great), and my barn is comfortable except for the late part of the day when the biting flies are flying low in the shady areas and biting my legs. One of these days I will be brave enough to try a Feed-through. Anybody using SimpliFly?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 - 6:55 am:

Solitude IGR (2.12%cyromazine) is one of the insect growth inhibitor hormones and should be very safe for all horses. We use to use the older organophosphate products and it was minimally effective but I can see several reasons Solitude would be much more effective and much safer. It also does not appear that it will have a significant effect on non-target species of insects. Brandi run a search on SimpliFly we have had discussions about it.

The cardinal rule for the effectiveness of any feed through product is that there cannot be another source of significant matter that flies can reproduce in. What we also need is such a product that will prevent biting flies from reproducing, Pfizer are you listening?
DrO
Member:
Brandi

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 - 11:12 am:

Thanks Dr O for the info and I will do that search right now. And thanks for your call-to-action to Pfizer!
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 - 2:14 pm:

Thanks Dr O for your input and help. One of the reasons I picked Solitude IGA was because it didn't contain any organophosphate. I would like to add Bot Flies to the list for Pfizer to work on.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 - 1:53 am:

is solitude IGR just a fancy name for diotomaceous earth? i feed that to all my animals. Also, whenever i sprinkle it loose into the manure piles, wet hay areas, etc. it drastically reduces the fly problem for days... I have goats that create alot of spoilage. I might never see flies around the horses, just the goat pen. ick.
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 - 10:21 am:

joj,
No Solitude IGR is not the same. I use Diatomaceous earth on my tomatoes, and sweet corn to get rid of worms and ants in my house. I'm not sure I would feed it to my horses. Diatomaceous Earth - composed of finely milled fossilized shells of minuscule organisms called diatoms. The microscopically fine, sharp edges desiccate the insects' exoskeleton upon contact and the pests dehydrate and die within hours. The insects also die when they eat the dust.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 24, 2005 - 7:31 pm:

Yes, thanks i know what it is. What i am curious about is what makes solitude IGR so much better, or different than just using DE. the part that made me wonder if its almost the same thing, is that its not ok to breathe in. They say the same for DE. Is solitude a finely ground dusty topping?

I just looked up cyromazine, and its an insecticide and man made. I don't know, but i would rather chance using a non-toxic all natural product vs. something that over time the flies will become resistant to. Granted its only 2.12% of it but still....something to think about.

I put DE in all their feeds stuffs, in all the areas of manure management, in the garbage. And its only 16 bucks for a bag the size of a dog food bag. It lasts forever and is cheap. And seems to kill everything, including flies, ants, spiders, roaches, and anything with an ekoskeleton. fleas.. ticks... etc. Just my opinion but why spend 90 bucks on something vs. spending $16 and it does the exact same thing with a healthier outcome.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 - 6:23 am:

You are incorrect about diatomaceous earth (DE) being non-toxic joj. Among those who work with DE there is a high incidence of a variety of lung diseases including silicosis, tuberculosis, chronic bronchitis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer with a well established link to the DE exposure. I do not know of any human diseases caused by the cyromazine.

J Thorac Imaging. 1989 Jan;4(1):68-80.
Misconceptions regarding the pathogenicity of silicas and silicates.
Feigin DS.
Department of Radiology, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla 92093.

...Kaolin, mica, fuller's earth, zeolite, and fiberglass all vary in disease production according to their shape and fibrogenicity. Silica, diatomaceous earth, and other forms of silica are all highly fibrogenic and thus produce clinically obvious disease with sufficient inhalation. The largest particles usually produce nodular patterns in the upper pulmonary fields, as is typical of silicosis. The fibrous particles are more likely to manifest themselves as interstitial patterns in the lower pulmonary fields.

DrO
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 - 6:10 pm:

Yes, well that was my point with solitude.

You aren't supposed to inhale solitude IGR either. Says it right on the directions. and give specific instructions to use. why is that? You can feed it, but not inhale it?

Same with DE. As long as you don't breathe it into your lungs its all good. it can be dissolved in liquid and sprayed. It's the dust that is an issue.

I believe that with time a product like solitude will show the same patterns with the effects of inhalation, (it's just not old enough of a product yet). and over time it will become resistant to the bug its supposed to destroy. (just like wormers, and other bug repellants, and insecticides ) true?

DE its a true mechanical destruction and will never become resistant to the bugs.

Any product used in the destruction of something else is in itself toxic to some degree. But why use something man made when there is a natural product out there that does the same thing. and cheaper.
Member:
Jgordo03

Posted on Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 - 6:55 pm:

Solitude is a highly compressed pellet it is not a powder. DE is dispensed as a powder and don't forget your animals are ingesting it in it's powder form which carries labeling that it is hazardous to eyes, skin, respiratory, and gastrointestinal track. But since this is a free country now you can hear my opinion. I find it hard to believe you would turn you head to the facts and feed something to your animals that will cause the problems associated with it just because it is cheap! If DE was so safe and effective, there would be a whole world of information, and its uses on animals and humans that I would have found them a long time ago.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 25, 2005 - 8:42 pm:

What about the wind joj? Are you going to stop that from blowing the powder around? You may believe in time Solitude will be found to have problems but what about the current known problems with spreading all that DE around and once placed it does not go away, it accumulates growing in amount each time you spread it.

The most potent toxins in the world are those made naturally, like botulism. Just because it is natural does not make it safe.

This insecticide works by effecting endocrine systems that neither your horse or you have. In fact the system targeted is so specific it is largely confined to house and stable flies and not other insects, if I understand the research right. With DE you are killing the flies (if it is effective against them) but you may also be killing beneficial insects also while exposing your horses and you to a known hazard, though I am unable to judge the risk not knowing your inhalation rates.
DrO
Member:
kriseyc

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 8:02 pm:

I apologize for picking up this old post, but What about if you add the DE to a little grain and then mix with water so there is no dust?
What do you think Dr.O??
Thanks
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 8:27 pm:

Ike, there is no evidence that DE actually kills insects that way -- inside of the digestive tract.

I just don't like the stuff. There was some of it in a supplement that I was using for a while and it gave me asthma while I was using it.

Just not worth messing around with the stuff IMHO.
Member:
kriseyc

Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2012 - 10:45 pm:

Hi Vicki,
Thanks for your input. i'm sorry to hear about your asthma.
I was more interested in the DE as a parasite/dewormer in between regular deworming than as a fly killer product.
Thanks
Ike
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Mar 17, 2012 - 12:04 pm:

There are folks who use DE that way too, Ike, but again I don't believe that there is any evidence whatsoever that it is actually effective and some of the stuff tends to be contaminated with toxins. One of the best things to do between deworming courses is to run some
fecal tests to check on the efficacy of your program and to see which, if any of your horses are carrying significant parasite loads.

As you may know, most Vets are now suggesting doing a lot less worming due to growing problems with resistance.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 19, 2012 - 7:46 am:

Hello IKE,
Not being able to observe your handling technique I have no way of judging if the method you use prevents inhalation exposure by the handler and the horse.
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 19, 2012 - 7:51 am:

Oh I forgot to support those above who write that currently there is no good scientific evidence that DE is an effective anthelmintic, this continues to be true.
DrO
Member:
babychop

Posted on Monday, Mar 19, 2012 - 9:21 am:

If anyone's interested Uckele is having a sale on a feed through fly control supplement right now. Here's the link:

https://www.uckeleequine.com/buy/bug-nm?utm_source=Reminder+-+BugNM+3%2F15%2F12&u tm_campaign=BugNM&utm_medium=email

Enter code BUGNM at checkout for 20% off.

I have used fly predators for years myself, first year not much improvement but over the years they multiply in mild climates, just leave a little dry material at the edges for them to breed (shavings, etc) - they burrow into the fresh manure and kill the fly pupae, can't remember if they lay their eggs in them or eat them but either way they stop the cycle. Things got a whole lot better when I gave my neighbor across the street a packet of them! Wouldn't hurt to spread them in the detritis in the woods if you can find a supplier but given the wet climes in Ireland I'm not sure they would thrive. Remember flies will travel several miles. Fly traps with bait are also a wonderful thing though they do stink to high heaven. I like the suggestion of placing far away from the barn (otherwise you're drawing TO the horses).

One barn I was quite impressed with was German Dressage in Encinitas, they had the giant drums of fly spray with metered spray in each stall and though it was a huge facility there were absolutely NO FLIES - ANYWHERE. They even had a year round creek about an acre away from the barns. I was there for a couple days for an inspection and never saw one fly. Quite impressive but I did wonder about the spray getting into the feed. Good luck!
Member:
kriseyc

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

Thanks Dr.O for your response. I have just 2 horses on the property and have used the DE on both for 2 weeks only (this is in addition to regular fecals & vet recommended deworming strategy). I scoop a small amount slowly into feed dish mixed w/grain & water. The horses are not breathing any dust. I may be a small amount.

Andrea~ interesting that the first active ingredient on the Uckele product BugNM is...DE
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