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  Discussion on Vehicle and Trailer Search
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 23, 1999 - 10:55 pm:

Anyone have advice on what types of vehicles are good for towing a two horse trailer? I'm in the process of looking at options and am trying to decide whether to go with a SUV type vehicle or a pickup truck. Any preference on goose neck vs. trailer hitch? I will only be pulling one horse and would probably be purchasing a trailer weighing approximately 2000-2300 lbs. Does anyone have any experiences (good, bad or otherwise) pulling a bumper hitch with something like a Ford Explorer? Thanks for any help.

Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 5:40 pm:

Hi Susan:

We pull our two horse trailer (bumper hitch) with my husbands dodge 1/2 ton pickup without a problem. I guess that'd be equivilant to the ford f-150. One thing that I thought I'd mention...when we bought Jim's truck I was surprised to find that trucks no longer have towing packages as standard equipment....it's now an option!

I too, usually haul only one horse in my trailer, but have hauled 2 without a problem. I like my bumper hitch trailer now....initially it's a bugger to back up until you get the hang of it though. I hear goose-necks are easier to back, but having never done it, I don't know. Good luck in your search! I'm anxious to hear opinions of others on this matter as well!

Happy Holidays,
Lynn

Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 9:55 pm:

Thanks, Lynn, for your info. The Explorer SUV is built on the f150 frame and pulls as much weight. With the V8 and 4 wheel drive, I think that I'll be OK. Have been advised to definitely add the electric brakes and an adjusting tow bar.

Happy Holidays to You. Susan

Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 10:44 pm:

You will probably get a million opinions about the best vehicle to tow a trailer. If you are going to buy a 2000# bumper pull, and add one horse at, say 1000#, then you will get close to exceeding the towing capacity of many of the mid size SUV's that have V6's or small V8's. Most of them have a towing limit of around 3500#'s. My wife has a blazer S-10, and I would feel uncomfortable pulling that much weight with it. I had a bumper pull trailer and moved on to a gooseneck, but mainly because I wanted sleeping quarters in the trailer. A goose neck means a truck, so if you decide that way you will be in the truck business. The full size trucks and full size SUV's have 7000# towing capacity for the 1/2 ton series and more for the 3/4 and one ton.

There are small two horse trialers that weigh only 1000#'s or less that the smaller SUV's could handle.I had such a trailer for several years and it was over 20 years old when I got it.I pulled it with a full size truck that only had a V-6 and put 180,000 miles on the truck. The trailer is now over 30 and still going strong. I held up a lot of traffic and put up with a lot of angry motorists. Just smile at them and say you are sorry. You and your cargo are more important than the few milliseconds they might lose. It is their day that is ruined, not yours. Besides, after they swoosh by and give you the bird, they will get their precious milliseconds back. Ignore the bird as well. The last thing you need is some jerk swerving back in front of you and slamming on the brakes.

If you go this route, make sure your trailer brakes are in tip top shape. I would stay far away from surge type systems and stick with electric trailer brakes. The electrics are easier to understand how they behave, and fix, if the need be. Have a good brake controller installed. Most of the better ones have two independent settings. One sets the ramp up rate and the other sets the max braking power. I like to set mine so that the trailer shares enough of the braking work such that I don't feel like I have to add much more braking from the tow vehicle. My experience has been that if the trailer brakes don't do enough sharing, then the tow vehicle brakes will overheat sooner. The trailer brakes tend to fade when they heat up, so the adjustment of max power may have to be changed a little during operation.

Make sure you buy the factory towing package regardless of the vehicle you buy. This will give you the extra cooling capacity your car will need when pulling the trailer. Even then, it is wise to add an external oil and transmission oil cooler. Your fuel mileage goes to almost half when you are towing. This extra fuel that is burned to keep you moving is turned into heat and all this heat is removed by the radiator. Watch your gages carefully when towing for signs of overheating. Also, maintenance such as oil and filter intervals should be shortened. Keep an eye on the transmission fluid and watch for signs of burned fluid. The fluid will break down and smell burned. Pull the dip stick and smell the fluid. Have the fluid drained and the transmission filter changed at or before the required interval.

Now for the driving part. The first thing to do is to plan your trip to avoid heavy traffic. Nothing is more aggravating and hard on the machinery than stop and go. Be sure all tires are at the specified pressure and in good shape. Be sure to double your time and distance estimates for merging and stopping. Develop the habit of reaching for the brake controller every time you stop. You don't have to touch anything, just develop a feel for where it is. That way, if you have a panic situation, you can crank up the braking power. Don't drive in overdrive when towing a trailer. The transmission repair bill will make you sad.

The trailer tracks wider than your tow vehicle, so on narrow roads, it is not unusual for the trailer to wander onto the shoulder. This is where a heavy tow vehicle is the better option. If this happens, the usual best thing to do is to keep the tow vehicle under power. Don't even coast until the problem clears up. The best way out is to just insist that the tow vehicle stay where it belongs and keep on chugging.

Best of luck in your search.

Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 9:52 am:

Excellent advise Brian, after putting close to a million miles under my belt driving commercially, some things I would like to add in the "driving" catagory.

Learn to drive by the "seat of your pants". Be aware of the "feeling" in your butt as you drive, you will "feel" handling problems way before you conscioulsy notice them. This is especially important driving in snow/ice or even in rain during the summer.

I prefer to have the trailer brakes set just a tiny bit harder in response time to the vehicle. That way if you do end up in a panic situation, the trailer will act as an anchor to help slow you down rather than being a force that is pushing you. Your braking distance will be greatly reduced that way. Better to replace the trailer brakes more often than to have a "jacknife" situation ruin your day and possibly injuring the horse or worse yet, yourself and others around you.

Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 11:53 am:

After learning with a 2 horse gooseneck, I flat refused to pull a bumperpull when we looked at getting a new trailer. I personally think they are safer because you are pulling and stoping from between the truck axels instead of behind them. you also don't get that jerky motion going down the road (which drives me nuts). I pull a 3 horse goose neck with a 5/8 ton (called: heavy half tons) that has a 350, I have electric trailer brakes that I too set a bit heavy and service often. If we are loaded to capcity with 3 horses, weeks worth of camping supplies and water, etc. we are at max capacity for the truck and trailer and can still take the mountain passes at 50mph.

The main thing to remember is dont just get "enough truck to get by". Figure what the trialer can possibly hold, then add the weight of 2 people, gear, etc. and see if you are in the safe range of your tow vehicle.

When you look at the small respective cost of stepping up in truck size it ia a small price to pay for you and your horses safety.

Brian and Bruce... bravo... I personally think people should be required to get endorsements for towing trilers containing live loads. Too many people don't understand that you can put brakes on trucks, you can put brakes on trailers, but you can't put brakes on the horses inside. Much less do people understand what a "walk around inspection" is.

Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 7:32 pm:

After moving to a gooseneck, I have to say that they feel much more stable going down the road and the ride seems much less sensitive to weight shifting. However, there are often economics involved, and there was a time when the old wallet could not stand the expense of a gooseneck system. The gooseneck trailers are more expensive, and tend to be heavier. So for a two horse arrangement, a little more tow vehicle is needed. Just having a hitch installed is a $500 proposition. I put one in a new truck myself to save $400, and cutting that big gaping hole in the bed of a brand new truck for the ball assembly is a gut wrenching experience.

If you are just getting into the horse hauling game, and aren't sure what to get, then I think it would be a reasonable approach to buy a bottom end 2 horse bumper pull, even used. You can find good ones for $1500. You can always get that back for one if you find out that this isn't what you want to do in your spare time. Next, I would look for a good used pickup truck, and add it to the "stable of cars" rather than buy a new vehicle and have it serve two purposes. This way, the truck can be a spare if needed. Next, find a good mechanic to fix up the rig, dedicating it to horse hauling. This way, you can leave the trailer hitched to the truck, and going through the hitching drill is minimized. You should be able to find a decent used truck for $6000. Figure $500 to the mechanic and you are in the horse hauling business for $8000. That is a little over a year's worth of payments on a new SUV, so in about 16 months, you are even, and ahead after that.

After a year, if Aunt Bessie dies, you can upgrade with the inheritance money. And guess what, that little trailer is worth $1500 on trade and the truck is worth $6000!

One more tidbit. make sure you have a "safety net" list of friends that are willing to drive to East Overshoe Alabama and bring back your horses if your tow vehicle breaks down. Even new ones break down, and nothing is worse that sitting on a dark interstate trying to find a place to put up your horses. Make an arrangement with another horse person to to the same if they get in trouble. This is where owning a gooseneck is a little more challenging. There may be fewer folks with the setup.

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 1999 - 11:44 am:

Brian-
I'll tell you, better late than never. I too cried when I put a big hernkin' plate in the bed of my truck the first time, BUT the seccond time I got smart... The dealer delivered out new trailer and had the slickest set up I have ever seen.

They are called "Turn Over Balls". All the bracing is mounted under the bed to the frame so it is more secure and safe then to the bed of the truck. You only have a 4x4 inch hole to cut in the bed for the ball assembly and 4 3/8inch holes to drill for the safety chain hooks. The coolest thing is that when in use you only have a ball sticking up in your bed the same size a bumper hitch, when your done you release a lever located in the wheele well and flip the ball over. You now have your bed back with nothing potruding. It cost me around $350 US with shipping and took my husband about 2 hours to install and he's never done it before (and rarely reads directions *grin*). The other cool thing is that you can buy aditional attachments for other "gooseneck" types, like king pin so you can also tow a camper trailer with it.

The thing to look for is you want the type that the ball is NOT hinged to the mechanisim, but the type that is a fully removeable slug. The hinge type tend to get loose and sloppy over time and make noise, the slug type stay snug indefinatly if installed right.

Had to tell you 'bout that option cause it is just the coolest thing since sliced bread and makes it soo you don't give up the bed of your truck to a hunk of unsightly metal

Emily

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 1999 - 8:07 pm:

I saw one of those in Idaho and got the address of a dealer. I liked the design like you did. I almost bought one for my "new" truck (new to me, it is an '89). If I recall, they are made in Montana, or there is a web page for a dealer that sells them in Montana. The lady that runs the sales counter at Golden Gait Trailer in Charlotte told me about the web page.

You are 100% on with regard to the swing up balls. Mine was loose like you mention, AND if it was left down and a little road grime got in it, it was a bear to open up. I busted a big screwdriver prying against that little finger hole to flip up the side gate that locks the ball. I don't know if the looseness meant anything, but it was really aggravating to feel a little bump at every speed change. The other big gripe I had was with the "UNIVERSAL" mounting kit. An $85 waste of money. All it was was two pieces of three inch channel and a few bolts that wouldn't work. Had to go to the hardware store for the needed hardware. I had better stuff rusting in the scrap pile.

The second installation I did I made a home made deal out of heavy tube steel and plate. I welded a nut under the plate and rigged everything so I could put the pieces in and bolt them together. For the few times I need the ball out of the back of the truck, I unscrew the ball. Sort of a pain, but I only need to take it out one or two times a year. The steel was $5 and the ball about $15. My time at $1 per hour, and the whole job came to $40.

I followed my own advice and go rid of a nearly new truck; the payments as well. I searched for a $6000 special and rigged it to be a tow and farm work truck. Already had a few scratches, but a gem in the rough. Instead of driving a new truck every day, I drive an older Honda to work and for all other chores. The truck stays attached to the trailer most of the time for instant use. The feed store hands chuckle at me when I load 10 bags of feed in that Honda, but at 35mpg, let them laugh. Let's see, that's two in the front seat, four in the back and four in the trunk. The old Accord squats a little but we still make it home.

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 1999 - 11:27 am:

As I am contemplating becoming the personal chauffer of my trusty steed, I was very interested in the hitch Emily described above (as well as the rest of the discussions) and searched out a website advertising it. If I understand the formatting directions that Dr O. is always pleading for us to use, you should be able to directly link to it at:

TurnoverBall.

If I bungled the formatting stuff, you can cut&paste or fatfinger into your browser "https://www.turnoverball.com/".

The info there is limited, but you get a picture of the hitch and can ask for product literature.

Cheers.

elb

Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2000 - 12:00 pm:

What a sticky topic - I've seen more cyberspace arguments on trailers and towing than any other topic, perhaps with the exception of "long and low riding" LOL.

I went through this a few years ago. I ended up finding a used Brenderup 2-horse bumper pull that tows like a dream behind a Dodge Dakota mid-size truck. The truck is rated to tow 6800 lbs and is an extended cab, so has a nice long wheel base. I did have to get the tow package and the upgraded cooling package.

The trailer tows beautifully and I've had it on the interstate as well as hilly, back roads. It has non-electric brakes - when the truck slows down it slows down. It is very easy to maintain and is a comfortable ride. It is bright, airy and appealing to horses. I've had the floor replaced with "factory equipment." The materials were expensive, but the job was easy, so my bill was about the same as if it had a regular floor.

If you can, ride in a trailer yourself before buying it. Many are very bumpy, uncomfortable, etc.

I bought my truck first, and then found the trailer used. My truck is "over designed" for this trailer as it can be pulled with lessor vehicles. You can check with Brenderup for their recommendations. If you are buying a new trailer, the manufacturer can offer suggestions on vehicle, too.

We've a new Jeep Cherokee, too. It can pull the Brenderup, but hasn't yet as it is too nice to become the horse/dog vehicle.

Oddly enough, I had to drag my husband kicking and screaming to buy a truck years ago. Now he won't do without one because of the convenience of having the bed handy for any odd job.

The new Dakotas have the cab doors, too, so the access to the "rumble" seat area is easier.

I won't argue what is better. The ticket is decide what makes sense to your needs, hauling requirements, horse's size, pocket-book, etc. Europeans habitually haul with vehicles other than trucks without problems, and there are plenty of hills and highways there.

There is a fellow in Southern Pines (Shevas may be the spelling of his name) that publishes a book on trailering, etc. It might be worth a purchase. I believe I've seen it in some of the catalogs - State Line or Dover? I spoke with him when I began my search, before his book was published, and he gave me a lot of good information/considerations.

On thing he told me was that many people who choose goosenecks go back to bumper pulls! (I was under the impression that goosenecks were better than sliced bread then.) The point is that no one solution is right for everyone.

Good luck with your research and planning.

Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 8:31 am:

Hello Chris,
Concerning the push-pull (inertial) braking system I found one serious draw back: If your brakes go out on you you have no braking power at all. It was 1985 and we were coming down the hill from Blowing Rock on 421. I kinow you know the one. Half way down we completely lost our brakes (overheated) and it was a miracle we made it to the bottom without incident. I think the inertial system puts a little extra stress on the trucks brakes.

I discovered that day that on a 7% grade a truck and horse trailer running free will top out at about 65 miles per hour before it quits accelerating. I guess at this speed the wind resistance and friction just counteract the acceleration of gravity. My wife found this discussion riveting as we barreled down that highway.

One other comment, anyone who tells you many people who have driven goosenecks choose to go back to bumper-pulls has a bumper-pull he wants to sell.
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 12:11 pm:

Chris--where did you ever find a used Brenderup? I looked into getting one a year or so ago and was told by everyone I contacted they were rarer than witches' teeth--everyone hangs on to them. I would love a Brenderup, but now have a second horse instead (*G*). All we have to pull it is a Toyota 4-runner anyway. Maybe one day MY husband will give in on the truck!

Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 2:15 pm:

Dr. O,

I know the hill. I can't imagine being a runaway vehicle down it, much less a runaway with a trailer. I also know some other folks that have had problems on it hauling horses.

Me, I've yet to haul a horse to the mountains. We are far enough away that a day trip is a pain and overnights with a horse limits our flexibility to do other things than ride. Plus, since my husband isn't horsey, riding around by myself isn't much fun. We end up hiking all the trials with our English Setter instead.

Wonder what the Europeans do when they haul over the Alps? (musing)

My truck has electric brakes set up for a trailer. I just don't have a trailer than can use them. If the Brenderup disappeared tomorrow, I'd buy one all over again. It is soooo sturdy and has held up very well. Since my husband is seldom around to do anything with the horse or trailer, I love that I can manage the Brenderup myself.

Glad nothing happened to you on that hill!


Zoe,

It was pure luck. A friend bought a saddle used from a lady advertising in the NC Agriculture Review, who was "hanging up her spurs" and quitting riding. While there, he noticed the Brenderup - thought it looked like a "kit" trailer and asked the lady about it. Then he happened to mention it to my riding instructor, who knew I was looking for a used trailer. She left a message on my machine. When I returned home from vacation a few days later, I got the message, called the lady with the trailer, out of the blue and asked her if she'd sell it! Which she did and it was a deal for me.

Pure luck. I attribute it to the fact I had a postcard on the refridge of the same trailer that Brenderup had sent me some years prior. I'd put it up there just to annoy my long suffering husband. So, maybe it was some sort of mind-actualization-karma type thing GRIN.

As far as convincing your man of the value of a truck, I think having one is the best argument. Jim was really unhappy when we got the truck - I did all the negotiation, etc. and just took him along to ink the deal - we got a great deal on it, too. I figure the guy decided the only way we'd get my husband it was to make it a deal he couldn't refuse. A great buying tactic.

Cheers.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Jan 24, 2003 - 10:59 am:

I am going to be in the market for a tow vehicle next year. As usual, I am starting my search early! I was wondering if anyone has used a Toyota Sequoia. It has more torque than the Tahoe, and a longer wheelbase. It is rated to tow 6500 lbs. Sounds fine for a 2300 pound 2 horse with 2400 lbs of horses. Any opinions?
Alicia
New Member:
Monty

Posted on Friday, Jan 24, 2003 - 1:51 pm:

Just remember that the tow rating includes everything in the trailer and the vehicle--people, pets, equipment, etc. It's easy to add another 1000 lbs. and then you're getting close to your capacity. As I recall, the Tahoe comes with a couple of different rear axle differentials that yield different torque values, so make sure you're comparing apples and apples with the Sequoia. There are some rear ends on the Tahoe that you would not want to tow with. Good luck in your search!
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Jan 24, 2003 - 2:18 pm:

Thanks for the warning. I plan on using the trailering book mentioned before to make sure I buy the right thing.
Here is what the Toyota web site says about it.

Weights and Capacities
Curb weight (lbs.) (2WD/4WD) 5,070/5,270
GVWR (lbs.) (2WD/4WD) 6,500/6,600
GCWR (lbs.) 11,800
Payload (lbs.) (2WD/4WD) 1,400/1,305
Towing capacity (2WD/4WD) 6,500/6,200
Cargo volume (cu. ft.) behind front/middle/rear seats 128.16/65.3/27.8

So, does this fit the bill? I am not clear on what all the stuff means, but I think the total rating is 11,800, right?
Thanks!
Alicia
Member:
Monty

Posted on Friday, Jan 24, 2003 - 4:13 pm:

When I was researching this for myself, I could have quoted you chapter and verse on the pros and cons of towing vehicle specs, but that was 3 years ago. What I remember is this. Wheel base is important. I used to tow with a Mercury Mountaineer and frequently had the feeling that the tail was wagging the dog. Not good, especially when being passed by a tractor trailer. Next, consider the weight of your vehicle compared to the weight of the loaded trailer. As long as your vehicle weighs more than what you're pulling, you don't feel like the trailer is in charge, especially when you have a shorter wheel base. I switched to an Expedition because it had a longer wheelbase and was a heavier vehicle overall. Towing feels much more secure to me (and I was only towing one horse 99% of the time). THen, find the rear axle with the highest rating you can within the vehicle options available to you. Example: Ford and Chevy trucks and utes can come with something like a 331, a 353, a 373, or the big boy, the 410 rear axle. I don't claim to understand the physics of it, but towing really needs a minimum of a 373 axle. A 410 might be too much; it'll haul you out of almost anything but it's a nice insurance policy when you have a lot of hills to travel on or you're traveling at high altitudes. The trade off is that the higher the number axle, the lower gas mileage you can expect to get. Have you considered a diesel? Chevy Suburbans can be had with a diesel engine and with their long wheelbase, they make great tow vehicles. Look around at the next horse show you go to...the majority of vehicles are Burbs or 1/2 ton - 3/4 ton trucks. Most are also 4 wheel drive to get out of the muddy grounds when that torrential rainstorm hits on the last day of the show. Finally, make sure that whatever vehicle you get comes from the manufacturer with a towing package already installed. Specifically, you'll need the heavy duty alternator and an extra cooler of some kind for the transmission (or radiator) so you won't overheat and fry your tranny. Most also come with a heavy duty battery as well. Good luck in your search. Susan
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 25, 2003 - 10:11 am:

Alicia, it never hurts to have all the truck you can afford when it comes to towing. I would much rather be at the bottom of the recommended towing range rather than the top.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 12:03 pm:

So no one has specific comments on the vehicle I mentioned? I have considered deisel, but the environmental impacts really get me, plus, they are much more expensive as a rule. The Sequoia gets horrible gas mileage, so that is bad enough! The wheel base is 118.1 inches. I didn't see anything about a rear axel rating, so I don't know what that is on this particular truck. As to what I can afford, it is pretty much the limit (35K). I really don't want a pick up truck, and the Suburban is kind of out of my price range. I will have 1500 pounds left over fully loaded, which seems OK. I wish I could afford the fully loaded Suburban, but even then, I might not buy it because of the reliability issue.
Member:
Terrilyn

Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 12:31 pm:

I know people on this website must think I work for this guy or something because I keep mentioning his website on towing discussions, but Alicia, it's worth a few minutes for you to visit www.mrtruck.net. There's a message board on which you can post questions, and there's a membership you can buy ($20) that is specifically designed to help people who are looking for tow vehicles. It was a great resource for me when looking for a vehicle. "Mr. Truck" also has lots of horse experience. Good luck. Let us know what you end up with!
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 1:04 pm:

Terri,
Actually, I had already planned on doing that. I am not ready to buy yet, so I thought I'd wait till I was a little closer in case new stuff comes out. I figured I could ask this list in the mean time. I'm glad you told us about it, as, after a cursory inspection, I thought it would be really useful.
Thanks!!!
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