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  Discussion on Physical Exam
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2000 - 10:25 am:

Does anyone know if a physical examination on a horse would include checking feet and legs? If you had a performance that you wanted a physical examination done on it to be assured it was sound enough to continue training would you have to order a physical & lameness exam to get the legs and feet checked? Or would a physical examination include feeling legs, checking feet, maybe having the horse walk to see if it appeared lame?

Posted on Saturday, Feb 12, 2000 - 3:35 pm:

Normally a physical exam or vet check would include the hands-on checking of the legs, holding/suspending each leg for 2 minutes? and then trotting the horse off to see if sound or anything peculiar when trotted off. Hands-on inspection of the feet to see if there's any abnormal angle/hardness, etc. on the outward appearance. If the horse trotted off uneven after the initial suspension of the leg, then the vet might recommend an xray and/or ultrasound to see more detail on the leg, but that would be your decision to go further. If the horse has any problems with its feet (i.e. club foot, one foot high heel, other foot short heel long toe, etc.) then an xray of the foot would should any shifting of the coffin bone, plus sidebone, ringbone (if any) detail and give you information as to what this horse can or can't do.

Jo

Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2000 - 10:08 am:

Thanks Jo,

So what you are saying is the feet and legs should be part of a physical exam? If abmormalities are noticed with feet and legs a complete lameness exam should then be done?

I had my vet come and do a physical exam and a CBC on my horse the day after I suspected horse abuse and moved my horse from the first trainers. I explained my horse had been in training as a Reiner and I wanted to be absolutely sure the horse was sound and well enough to continue training. Later I found out my horse had his feet and legs blocked out(30 day block) 3 days before I got him home, 4 days before the Physical Exam. When I ask my vet why he didn't notice the horse had no feeling in his feet and legs he said you ordered a Physical Exam on your horse not a Lameness Exam. He said he did palpate the horses legs.

I feel riding a horse that has no feeling in his feet and legs is not only dangerous to the horse, it's extremely dangerous for the rider. And I also feel my decisions to continue training should have been based on medical fact about the horses condition. If I would have been told the truth the horse would never continued training.

The word "REINER" when describing what the horse does, screams "LEGS" "LEGS" "LEGS" & "FEET" "FEET" "FEET". Money for a lameness exam wasn't a problem.

I am not a Veterinarian - Farrier or Trainer that's why I have always hired Horse Professionals when it comes to my horses.

Maybe Dr. Oglesby will be kind enought to explain the proper and standard proceedure for a Physical Exam, and if checking feet and legs isn't included we have all gotten some valuable information about this issue. It would also be interesting to get a farriers opinion, can they tell if a horse has been blocked out based on the horses responce when asked to lift their feet.

Thank Jo

Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2000 - 11:17 am:

My experience with different vets has been that the physical exam did include hands-on examination of the legs and feet. But I have to admit when I'm talking with the vet, I do go into detail as to what the horse would be used for and what I am looking for in the exam. I couldn't tell you for sure if there is a "standard" procedure that pertains to all exams. I usually check out the background of the vet and see how many years experience he/she has and what they mostly have dealt with.

I guess what surprises me is that the trainer went ahead and blocked your horses legs without seeing if that's the route you would have wanted to take versus just giving the horse time-off for nature to repair damage that might have occurred if that was an option. I'm not a reiner, but my frient is, and she has admitted to me that the pressure and strain put on the legs as a 3 year old can be very harmful. The spins and roll-backs and sliding stops on a 3 year old legs.....well that's what they call for in the 3 year old futurities. I don't agree with it, but my friend monitors what ever is being done to her horses that are in training in Oklahoma and if she feels that horse is under too much pressure she will bring them home and let them be "horses" again and grow up some more and go back to basic ground-work and alot of relaxing trot work, trails, etc.

I hope Dr. O does respond because I would like to know if there national "standard" as to what entails a "physical exam".

I have seen trainers that are so focused on getting the end results that they don't consider what they're doing to get there. I hope things go better for you. Jo

Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2000 - 5:20 pm:

Hello! I'm not sure if there is such a thing a standard exam....But you are the customer, and the vet needs to be made aware of what you want done. Every person that "vets out" a horse asks for different things. The last three horses I bought I had "vetted out". I too wanted to be sure they could handle the stress of competition. And that I was getting a sound horse. I told the vet exactly what I wanted. This included full xrays and drug testing. No matter what, when you buy a horse you take a risk of some undetectable lameness or illness. The exam should rule out as much as possible. How much you are willing to spend on the exam, how much the horse costs etc...are factors. One mare I bought was gone over with a fine tooth comb. She was very expensive and is insured. The vetting was over $250 but I feel I got my moneys worth. He answered questions about her conformation and watched me ride and jump her, on top of the exam. It was incredibly thorough. Another mare was at the track when I had her vetted. I found out that things are done a little different there than in the horse show world. The vet wasn't going to jog the horse or flex her until I insisted. It's something usually not done at the track.
Anyway, I am sorry about your horse. I would be worried about riding a horse with blocked legs. Especially, why they needed to block him in the first place.
~barbara

Posted on Sunday, Feb 13, 2000 - 6:51 pm:

I too would like an answer from the Dr. on what a physical exam includes. Like if a vet made a decision to put a horse on medication for melonomas and that vet had not seen or examined those melonomas in over a year,would it be improper to expect that he would look at the melonomas before prescribing some sort of medication for them? Afterall,the melonomas could have been at a completely different stage a year later.I know all horses have different problems but when a vet has cared for your horse for x amount of years and knows areas of concern,would it be a ridiculous waste of time to exam problem areas during the six month examination?

Posted on Monday, Feb 14, 2000 - 8:29 am:

The problem seems to be if you make waves and try and explain your conserns about what has happened with your horse you will pay one heck of a price for it in the end. Trust me I know that to be a fact. If you have a vet that's offended by your honestly and conserns it may be best to get someone else.
Teresa I can only give you this advice from my past experence. It's your horse, you pay the bill,and the vet is your employee while you are paying him or her. If you have a gut feeling about something go with it. Caring animal owners support veterinary medicine, we are their livelyhood, when things get to the point your vet is to busy to look into your conserns about your horses present condition you have a problem. There are some honest people in this profession that will be more than willing to help you, lay you cards on the table tell the vet how you feel, if you don't like the answers get rid of them. Being straight forward and up front won't win you any popularity contests but you can't expect this vet to know what you want unless you tell them. Good luck

Posted on Monday, Feb 14, 2000 - 5:28 pm:

Hello to all:
A physical examination includes temperature, pulse, respiration, ophthalmic exam, auscultation of the heart and lungs, oral examination, a neurological evaluation, and general conformation. Whenever I have done a physical exam on a horse, a lameness evaluation and palpation of the legs and feet is standard for me as just one part of the exam I do. After all, if a horse does not have good feet and legs--riding that individual is going to be a problem and that is what most people want to do with their horse.
I agree with Rosa that owners need to converse with their vet and tell them what their plans are for the use of the animal. As she said, lay your cards on the table, we as veterinarians are providing a service to our clients for which we are paid. It is your money and your horse and you both deserve the best service as a veterinarian that I can provide, at least that is my philosophy. I also believe and practice the philosophy that if I do not know the answer to a question--I will tell the owner and either refer them to someone who does know the answer, or I will try my best to find the information to answer their question to the best of my ability.
Hope this information helps. I look forward to hearing Dr. O's response as well. Dr. Woodworth

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2000 - 6:48 am:

Hello Everyone,
For a look at a general exam see: Care: General Care: Prepurchase Exam.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2000 - 8:49 am:

Thanks Dr. Woodworth & Dr.O, your help has confirmed our opinnions on what the majority of owners feel a Physical Exam should consist of.

Some times feet and legs are overlooked but your explaination is very - very true, no feet and legs - no horse. The feet and legs support a termendous amount of weight for the size of them with the majority of the weight being on the front legs. If owners keep this in mind they will realize how very important feet & legs are. A 3 legged horse hasn't got much of a chance of survival.

I don't want to sound like I'm a lameness expert because I'm far from it. I have gained knowledge on this issue the hard way. I would have insisted on a Lameness Exam along with the Physical Exam if I would have been aware this vet didn't consider feet and legs to be part of a Physical Exam. Like I said earlier I watched the vet Palpate the horses legs, he should have realized the horse was blocked out based on the horses response, the horse had no feeling in his feet and legs, he had been given a 30 day block by another vet a couple days prior, it's to bad I didn't know it at the time. It took over 8 months to get the medical records on my horse from the trainers vet, I was told the medical records on my aminal were none of my business, I didn't pay for treatment so I had absolute no idea what had been done. If nothing else I hope all that have followed this discussion have learned something, I certainly have.

Posted on Saturday, Feb 19, 2000 - 9:19 pm:

Does anyone know if pain killers are the same as blocks? Can palpating legs detect the horse was injected in the legs with pain killers?
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