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  Discussion on Moxidectin vs fenbendazole
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Member:
Pamm

Posted on Sunday, Jan 29, 2006 - 3:42 pm:

Dr. O,
Sorry I posted in the wrong place, I always find this system difficult to use, not user friendly at all!
I am currently researching a colitis problem with my 1&1/2 yr old Belgian/QH. He has been dewormed with ivermectin, praziquantel, and fenbendazole products every 8 weeks. I have not used moxidectin as I am concerned about safety at his age, but I am also concerned that he may have encysted stage worms. Until they die and release how can they possibly be the cause of diarreha? I know I can use 1 dose mocidectin or 2 doses/5 days fenbendazole. I have not found any informaiton comparing these methods. I am confused which is best to use, I really don't like to give a young horse 10 tubes of wormer. Please advise on why each would be used and the standard for a horse his age. Also can I give either of these wormers while he is on Flagyl, 27 tabs 500 mg 2xday for 30 days. His stool showed Trichomomas and prior treatment using less Flagyl for less days did not stop the recurring diarreha. About 5 days off the Flagyl and it returns. Thanks, Pam
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 29, 2006 - 6:14 pm:

That's Ok Pam with practice you will find our system very easy to use. We have been providing online access since 1994 and our main focus has always been ease of navigation, what you see is the result of trying out many dozens of different navigation systems. After all, I have to use the system for hours everyday so am greatly concerned about ease of navigation.

It was not the location you chose that was the problem, it was actually a very good location, but that you interrupted someone elses discussion with your question. By starting this discussion, you "own" it and all the information added to this discussion should it some way, and we are very loose with what is and what is not pertinent, address your problem. We also allow increased leeway with a new members post but by the time they have been here awhile we get tighter, I quess it was just your turn.

I think that most folks who have problems with our system have trouble because they use the search engine rather than the navigation frame on the left. Since we have over 60,000 pages the searches turn up a bunch of links that are ranked by keywords and keywords are of limited use for ranking topics by importance. By using the navigation frame on the left you start with the most general topics related to your topic of interest and as you select more focused topics not only do you see what you are looking for but you are introduced to related topics that you may not have thought of. Shortly you end up at the article covering your interest but also a concentrated group of discussions related to your topic.

Our javascrip-run navigation frame instantly opens up the topics and lower topics because there is no download time. The script has been cached in your temp files and so works at the speed of your computer, literally small fractions of a second. And because the javascript contains all the menus on the site, no matter where you are, you are never more than 2 links away from the almost 1000 articles each of which has a Start a New Discussion link. And this means you are never more than 3 links away from any of the 60000 pages.

Each page contains 5 separate and distinct navigation aids to help moving around the site, but it does require familiarity with the system to maximize your experience. For more on this see, News & Help » How Do I Find Information in Horseadvice.com?.

Now to the health question. Moxidectin is approved for horses of this age and should be safe if the diarrhea has not debilitated. If he is, I would use sequential ivermectin treatments. We have seen problems like you have that responded to 30 days of metronidazole (Flagyl) and then weaning slowly off the medication.
DrO
Member:
Pamm

Posted on Monday, Jan 30, 2006 - 7:12 pm:

Dr. O,
Thanks, I wanted to use Moxidectin. He is due to be wormed now, is it okay while on the Flagyl, or wait until he is off it. He is not at all sickly, just a diarrhea problem when not on the Flagyl.
Thanks again.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 4, 2006 - 11:17 am:

Since I am not absolutely certain, let's wait.
DrO
Member:
Pamm

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 - 4:13 pm:

Dr. O,
Thanks, I have confirmed with my vet that reducing the Flagyl is an option to try with my horse. He is currently on it at full dose; 27 tabs 2xday. I will be reducing that amount starting next week for about 30 more days in total. My question now is: If the diarrhea returns while he is on the reduced amount of Flagyl ( 16 2xday for 10 days; 16 1xday for 10 days; 16 every other day for about 20 days)is there any reason to continue this schedule. My feeling is that at any point in time the diarrhea returns, the Flagyl is no longer working so I would just reduce the amount a few days more and then stop it. What is your opinion? I have also researched a product called Biosponge; an organic clay that adsorbs and absorbs toxins, bacteria, etc. in the gut. I will probably try this next. If you or anyone out there has experience with this or other treatments, please advise. Currently the horse does not have diarrhea but I expect it will return since his manure is quite loose, and still does not smell normal.
Thanks very much, Pam
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 12:27 am:

Dear Pam,

I thought I wrote you a couple of days ago about Bio Sponge-maybe it was in the wrong discussion.

Anyway, Bio Sponge has worked wonders for our horses. My vet told me it is mainly used for babies with the squirts.

It comes in paste(more expensive) and powder(less expensive but harder to administer).

My horse had diarrhea for 3 days progressively getting worse. By day 3 I called the vet and he came 2 days later as he did not think we were in eminent danger.

My horse did not have a fever but by day 5 his hind legs were soo swollen(like tree trunks). I thought he may have contracted Lymphangitis.

The vet took blood to test for Lymphangitis. It was negative thank God.

I was confused as to why he did not recommend any antibiotics for the swelling. He said if there is no fever present no antibiotics were needed at this point. Also because antibiotics are so hard on their system it could also be a culprit for diarrhea or other complications.

All he gave me was Bio Sponge. I was to administer the Bio Sponge for 5 days. Well it only took 2 days to stop the diarrhea.

I thought my horses poop was still not as hard and well formed as it should be. So I gave him one more dose on the third day. He has been fine ever since.

This is the way my vet explained Bio Sponge. It is a clay based formula that works like Imodium AD for humans. As soon as the poop is well formed and has good shape STOP the Bio Sponge because it can have the adverse effect. It can stop up the horse too much such as tying up, blockage or even colic.

So another lesson learned. I now keep Bio Sponge as a staple in my medicine chest.

I hope your horse gets better soon.

Good luck,

WTG
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 2:59 am:

Dr.O,

What is Flagyl? Probably a stupid question but I thought it kills bacteria and some good Flora in the colon?

I am probably wrong so please correct me.

LOL,

WTG
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 7:13 am:

Flagyl is a name brand for the drug metronidazole. It is one of the drugs used for clostridial and protozoal infections of the bowel. Since the horse has had fevers and trichomonas isolated and worsening diarrhea everytime he comes off the drug it suggests a primary infection needing treatment but that the damage done to the normal flora allows regrowth of pathogens whenever he comes off the meds.

So Pam if the diarrhea returns while you reduce it the question for you and your veterinarian is to decide to increase the dosage back to where the diarrhea abates then lower it slower or try to attack this in another way, see these articles for more on this:
1) Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Diarrhea an Overview
2) Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Inital Evaluation of Colitis in Horses

If you would like to learn more about Bio-Sponge see:
Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Inital Evaluation of Colitis in Horses » Discussion on Lost mare within 16 hours - Severe Diarrhea Colitis.

A good physical, blood work, fecal float, smear, and culture at the time the diarrhea returns might help you make a better decision. And assuming it is true that overgrowth of pathogens is the problem probiotics as described in the articles above would be logical.
DrO
Member:
Pamm

Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 7:25 pm:

Dr. O,
What do you mean that he has fevers? I have had many tests for bacteria, salmonella, parasites, giardia,sand, etc. and all were neg. His bood work was normal. He did show trichonomas in his stool, howerver my vet could not say that it was more than normal. He also is on probios 2xday for the past few months. It seems that the situation is a return of protozoal infection, but with all tests neg it is difficult to know what to treat for. And other antibiotics are even worse than Flagyl for distroying the good flora. I have read the above info, and will review it again. I will probably try the biosponge next. Thanks, Pam
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 8:13 am:

My apologies Pam, reading WTG's post above made me think you had said he had fever. However the point still stands, the idea that the diarrhea worsens when coming off the metronidazole strongly suggests a microbial cause.
DrO
Member:
Angel77

Posted on Sunday, Feb 26, 2006 - 5:14 am:

Dear Pam,

So your horse has not had a fever throughout this bout with diarrhea?

WTG
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