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Discussion on Hoof growth on a new born.. ?
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:59 am:
Dr. O, my maiden mare had a colt 9 AM mother's day.. ! We were expecting a LOUD colored Appy/ sporthorse and got a solid black bay colt.. ( love these App genes) .. ok that being said... i know with this mating i had over a 50% chance of producing a homozygus foal.. and well i am not giving up yet.. If this solid , maybe he will roan out , colt develops 4 white hoofs on his black legs.. i have a clear sign he could in fact be homozygus.. so my question is .. how long before i will see the true color of his hoof as it grows out.. (i know with the stripping it can take a couple of years for those to come up.. i had a mare that went from solid black hoof to bar code like hoof pattern )
thanks ..Ann
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:31 am:
Happy Mother's Day, Ann!
Waiting for baby pics.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:34 am:
Congratulations 
Yes Ann...Pics please 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:42 am:
Ann I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 4 white feet are not a sign of homozygosity for the tobiano gene (TO) and neither is later roaning. Being solid right now it seems likely that your colt has no TO gene at all.
Feet that are non-pigmented will probably remain that way though I would wait until the foal coat falls away to be sure. While increasing areas of depigmentation occur commonly in horses, it does not happen the other way around, at least not often.
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 3:25 pm:
opps. Dr. O i am talking about Appaloosa's.. and on a solid dark horse with 4 non pigmented hoofs is a pheno type of a homozygus Appy.. actually on a roan as well.. the legs must be black tho..
thanks..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with Appy Spots.. !
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 6:17 am:
I understood you were talking about Appy's but the opps is mine, I am unfamiliar with such a pheno/genotype. Can you tell me what the name of this gene is Ann?
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:46 am:
Don't quote me on this.. I have not had time to send pictures to the genetic appy site.. so am not completely sure how to write the code up... LP/rr.. ??? maybe or what ever the roan code is.. I have never dealt with one before..
wish us luck.... This boy is being PAN fed every two hours.. his birth was difficult at best.. I let the mare struggle for 20 mins. hoping she could do the job.. it was apparent she needed my help... the colt was coming both shoulders at the same time.. so after my help and a HUGE / LOUD POP.. I got him out... he aspirated a lot of fluid and then we find that when he nurses the milk is coming out of his nose... I trucked him to UCD 3 hours old.. they scoped him and found all to be normal BUT , the muscles were loose and letting the milk flow to the lungs when in the nursing position... SO since Mothers day I have been milking the mare, and pan feeding him every 2 hours.. YAWN... mare has been great and he is just adorable.... I tried to post a picture ,, but I can't seem to make my pictures small enough with my new computer to post here anymore.. 
on the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 12:51 pm:
Ann, just wanted to wish you well with your new baby and I hope the issues resolve so that you can get some sleep!
Fran
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 4:50 pm:
 
* thanks Aileen..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted with spots..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 6:17 am:
My confusion Ann. You wrote APP my brain said PAINT and therefore the cross up. I blame it on you being at the top of the list therefore before I have had my second cup of coffee in the morn. I do understand much of the genetics of the leopard complex are not nailed down, so good luck with the guessing.
DrO
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Member:
Peggyr
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 9:59 am:
Ann, what a cute little boy!.. What is that halter he has on? I have never seen one but it looks like it would make handling them so easy.
Peggy
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 10:15 am:
Peggy, that is exactly what it is... a draft halter put on him as a harness... it makes it so easy to keep him near me / vs. me wrapping my body arms around his neck and fanny.. ! I CAN'T WAIT TO GET ALL THAT OFF HIM.. and let him be a real horse.. now he runs to me .. knowing i have the milk PAN.. !~ Tomorrow another scoping to see how things look.. WISH US LUCK..
DR. O , may i ask a question on this thread.. ? Have you seen a lot of foals that when nursing milk came out the nose.. ? How long till it resolved.. ?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 10:54 am:
He's beautiful Ann - and I specially love the pic nose to nose with mum. Do hope his muscles tighten up SOON - you must be exhausted.
Lynn
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Member:
Srobert
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 6:54 pm:
While you await Dr. O's learned response, I can tell you that this happened with our filly (who is now aged 10). Mom developed terrible mastitis after 3 days and rejected her so we ended up bucket/pan feeding until 3-4 months. Luckily, she had received the colostrum she needed during those first few days. The milk out the nose thing cleared up in a couple of weeks with no ill effects.
Well, I should probably amend that slightly. She does the weirdest thing....anytime she has eaten something sweet - such as grain - she sticks her neck out and sucks on her tongue - in the exact position a newborn would nurse. Sometimes she even lays her muzzle against her own flank.....Slightly neurotic, but otherwise healthy as a ......horse! Perhaps we should have offered her a horsey pacifier as a baby!
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 7:20 pm:
Shari, thanks for sharing your experience.. .. the horsy pacifier is something I was thinking about.. every time I pan feed , I keep the muzzle off for a bit and scratch his shoulder next to mom so that he will bit/ scratch mom's shoulder.. I had noticed that he wanted to suck on my shirt,.. ( I get milk all over every time I milk her) and realized he needs to suck .. I just found some info in this at https://www.petplace.com/horses/dysphagia-in-neonatal-foals/page1.aspx
It is my understanding that all are normal with in this colt, just lax in the muscle development.. it says this can resolve in 2- 20 days.. I am on day 5 .. will be going to UCD for another scoping to see what 'page' we are on.. interestingly enough I have talked to several folks.. and they have had foals do the same and the vets let them continue to nurse on meds.. UCD said that was an invitation for severe pneumonia.. ( they must have been lucky to pull thru without ill effects )
again thanks for sharing... Did your foal go back to nursing? Did the mare produce enough milk?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Srobert
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Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 6:50 am:
Unfortunately, the mare was not interested. She rejected the baby and wouldn't let her come near her. The vet treated her for severe mastitis and that dried her up (I think the baby couldn't nurse well enough to strip her out and that may have contributed to the problem).
Luckily, we had two old geldings and a black lab who provided lots of company, but it was sad to see her without her mom. You are in a much better situation and working with folks who obviously know what they are doing. I was told by a vet that there was no way you could save a foal that had been abandoned at three days old. Luckily, my dad - who had been a dairy farmer for many years - was visiting when all of this happened and he reminded me of all the calves we bottle fed over the years. Glad I listened to him!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 7:36 am:
Small amounts of milk from the nose is not unusual from healthy foals that nurse aggressively. So if this is very light drainage, not every nursing, and there is no coughing or other respiratory problems you may take a wait and see attitude. However this can be caused by functional and/or anatomical problems of the upper respiratory track and can lead to aspiration pneumonia. It is a judgement call.
DrO
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 9:34 am:
Shari, i am glad your dad was there too.. Last night was rough... tired.. grumpy ... that was me.. but when i would walk out to the barn, there was Tommy nickering to me letting me know how happy he was that i was there for him.. Night time feedings are quick.. Husband pan feeds him , while I milk out the mare.. so we get done in 1/2 the time and back to bed... My husband is an FEI man.. he goes to the office by day and helps me by night. ! I am thankful for him too..
Dr.O , the scoping found no anatomical problems.. they did see some pooling of milk in locations that there should be none, thus pulling him off the mare.. My understanding is that with time he will become stronger in that area and we will HOPEFULLY be able to put him back on her... TODAY i truck him back to UCD for a scope.. FINGERS CROSSED... yawn..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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