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Discussion on Grooming...how to....
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 4:41 pm:
Yes I know, first the curry then the brush...but does anyone have any techniques that I should know about?
Another thread got me thinking... I must say that there are times when my horse decides he doesn't want me to groom him...always when I get to a specific spot by his flank. I've tried to do it really soft, harder, etc., nothing seems to work, so I just say "stand". Please tell me what I can do to groom my horse better 
Seriously! Let's do this!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 4:44 pm:
I'll start off with what I do:
1. Pick the feet
2. curry body with harder curry (but it's still a soft curry)
3. curry legs and face with really soft curry.
4. curry ears with curry to get the noseeums out.
5. Brush with harder bristles to get the dirt out.
6. Brush with soft bristles to dust off and shine the coat.
I do the curry with a circular motion.
I brush with the hair, never against...
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 4:56 pm:
Aileen,
If he's sensitive, try a soft/medium brush. Some horses have very sensitive skin. Or just try grooming with your hands in a glove to get him used to the feel, then proceed. He may never be able to tolerate a hard bristle brush.
Good Luck,
Shirl
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 5:09 pm:
Thanks Shirl, I never use a hard bristle on him, never more than a medium bristle.
I'm wondering if there is a certain technique that I am not aware of... or, he's still hurting somewhere?
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 5:23 pm:
Aileen,
If he is sensitive only in a certain area, he may be hurting from "something". What is the big question. Any signs of swelling, having been kicked? Muscle strain? They can certainly keep us guessing. If it's confined to a small area, try very, very gently massaging it.
Best of luck,
Shirl
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 11:34 pm:
I have 7 different brushes. one for the face. one for nasty caked on dirt. one for heavy duty winter brushing... and so on. down to some really soft haired brushes.
My girl HATES anything more than the soft hair bristles. I only use a curry comb in the winter/spring to shed her. otherwise, i usually just hose her down (no soap) once a month in winter, weekly in summer. and i soap up only on the occasion i need to. While still wet, i spray with bug spray mixed with show sheen. ALOT. And then air dry her in a clean place where she CAN'T roll. This keeps her hair clean for at least a week. or more. The show sheen just seems to work out the nasty stuff, if i need to take a brush to her. and all i need is the softer bristle brushes. I find the less i do the better she looks. The natural oils in her body will help repel any of the nasty stuff. The more you shampoo the more you lose all that.
The only problem areas are her lower legs. she has a tendency to get muck down there. Otherwise, my bran shines all the time. Even in nasty weather, or no grooming times.
Since i have a palo, i use the blue shampoos to make her mane and tail whiter. This i do soap up more. Just like our hair it can get nasty. and do this weekly if needed, especially in the summer. Also, add the show sheen to the conditioner. And leave the conditioner in the hair. but wipe off excess. I really havent' had a problem in years. With any issues regarding care. she hates being groomed. So this way we do it less, but get the same effects.
The only way i got her to accept the brushes was to use the softer bristled ones. and its hard to order these online. You have to go and feel them to buy them.
I do believe the fly spray/showsheen combo help when i spray her daily. This way it softens the hair, and the dirt repels from the showsheen. Literally all this keeps her clean and i only groom when i saddle.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 14, 2006 - 11:50 pm:
I love those real soft little curries that are flexable like the Jelly Scrubbers. Most of my horses are pretty sensitive, especially in the summer when their coats are short. I, too, never use a real stiff brush. I have a red rubber soft curry that is shaped like a brush (made by Grooma, I think) that is very good at getting through long hair and removing mud.
I usually use Healthy Hair conditioner all over their bodies as I think this helps make the dirt easier to remove, and keeps their coats soft. I also vacuum the horses in the winter. Those nylon scrubbies used for dishes are really good a removing mud, too.
After manes are dry, instead of braids, I make lots of little "pony tails" with rubber bands about 4 inches apart all the way down to the ends. These don't pull like braids sometimes do, but keep their manes from getting tangled.
I like the idea of the fly spray mixed with conditioner or show sheen. I'm going to give it a try.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 1:29 am:
HI Gals,
What ratio of Show Sheen/Fly Spray do you use? Sounds like a fabulous idea, especially in dusty areas.
Thanks,
Shirl
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 7:57 am:
Aileen,
My mare isn't too sensitive, so I use standard equipment. However, in the winter, I ride with the knit gloves that have the little rubber nubbies on them. I've noticed that she LOVES having me rub her face when I'm wearing the gloves and I have used the gloves to scrub off sweat spots at the girth/lower legs in the winter when I can't hose her down. She seems to enjoy the feel of my hand, even in the glove, vs a brush or curry. The brushes or curry she tolerates, the gloved hand she leans into and enjoys.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 8:36 am:
Joj--
Regarding your comment about your horse's lower legs, I just saw an ad for a type of leg wraps to keep that area protected/clean and fly-free. I was flipping through the products section in May's (I think...not sure) issue of Equus and saw them...they look like they are made from the same material as fly masks, a mesh material, and fasten with velcro. Maybe these will help. If you're interested, let me know and I'll get details on who makes them when I get home from work.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 10:05 am:
Thanks all...
I too would like to know the ration for fly/show sheen spray...
I have the softest curries and brushes for my guy...the grooma's face and soft body ones...sometimes I end up using the face curry for his body.
What about manes and tails? I see joj washes her tail ... I am forever fighting dry skin on the tail bone... bum itches, I can tell because when I get home his tail is mussed.
I use the rehydrater by equus and it does seem to help, but is there something else or another way to do it? It seems that if I soap up the mane and tail, he gets itchy by the next day. I rinse it out as long as he can take it, go hair by hair, doesn't matter, unless I'm able to rinse him again the next day... I rarely use soap, I was told it dries the skin out?
I think his allergies are kicking in...  Can't give him oil because he'll get fatter, even a little bit...flax...same thing...any suggestions for this?
Someone suggested listerine and baby oil mixture...I have a problem putting listerine on my horse! Anyone use it successfully without repercussions?
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Member:
Mariss
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 10:05 am:
The face, let's talk about the face. When you have several horses to take care of, time is of the essence. Most of them hate the face done and doing it becomes a terrible experience. Washing the face is the same problem. I could use help with tips for this part, both washing and currying and brushing.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 10:09 am:
Can't help you there Mariss, my horses love having their faces done...except washing.
I spray above their heads because inevitably their heads are raised to the heavens. They get a nice shower
Then I get a small damp towel, and rub For the forelock I reach behind the ears and clean it that way. If you use soap, I'm wondering if the baby soap safe for eyes would be a good idea? Not sure of that...
Hope it helps!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 10:50 am:
I use a small sponge to do their faces. If they are really dirty and are showing, I use no tear baby shampoo, otherwise, just plain water. I wring out the sponge and scrub around their eyes; the rest of the face I wring out the sponge so water runs down their face from it to rinse.
They love having their faces scrubbed with those rubber gloves with the pimples on them, or with a very soft curry. For ears I just use a damp rag.
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 11:50 am:
Baby wipes for the face. it has lanolin in it. smells good too. horse likes it. i use about 3 of them to get her eye and face areas clean. ears i don't trim anymore. and sometimes need to pull out any wax that might get in there. the baby wipes are good for that too. I don't think i have ever used shampoo on the face. That is all i need is her to have it go in the eyes and never let me do it again.
The horses natural oils are the best defense. That's why i rarely shampoo the horse, just the mane and tail. when i put conditioner in i leave it. and then flyspray lavishly that too.
the mix of showsheen and fly spray are equal parts. I buy concentrate on both, then add appropriate water. One thing that i find works great is after the hoseing still wet, spray it on lavishly. and then sqeegee only the belly and really wet areas. I will notice for days i don't have to fly spray them. But watch out show sheen makes the hair slick. saddle? slick? you get the picture..grin or don't ride bareback after it, too....grin.
Those legs fly masks sound like a cool idea. I do have such a terrible problem, and then fly's bite, blood drips, dries. and muck starts. so pass on any info, sounds awesome.
Oh for my fly mask, i always soak in water first. and then spray it with fly spray before putting on the horse. That helps loads.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 12:18 pm:
Aileen, I have used Listerine on Sierra's tail near the body - she was adorned with allergies. Doesn't do much, however; when it got bad, any areas she'd rubbed, I'd put Zinc Oxide cream on, kept the bugs away and seemed to relieve the itching. Same with belly. There are several anti-itch lotions and gels also, but I liked covering the areas with ZO.
And as for the leg wraps for fly protection - they worked great. In fact I have a pair I used on Sierra, that are like new. Medium size, blue. Can't recall the brand but I'm going to sell them as they are too large for Sedona and she isn't bothered much by flies. I believe I got mine from Valley Vet.
Shirl
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 2:20 pm:
The way I was taught it was just soft curry comb, then curry comb some more, then some more, and when the curry comb does not come dusty anymore, finish with a soft cotton cloth or your bare hand.
You are not supposed to rub or otherwise irritate bare skin, so you are not supposed to go through the protective layer of hair with a brush. Horses hate it, it may introduce skin diseases and you don't really need it. A soft curry comb and honest work is all that's needed for a superb job. No stranger ever believed that I don't use any sprays or oils to make the horse shine like this. Or any brushes.
I like the soft curry comb by Oster. Horses like it too. It removes dirt very efficiently and holds loosened hair, forming a funny pad. When its full, you just pry it out of the comb with the hoofpick. I like Oster's hoofpick too.
https://www.osterpro.com/productModels.asp?ProdCatID=6&BladeID=&prodpagecount=all
When you're done currying, a clean old cotton t-shirt gives a fine finish. If it is dampened in hot water, even better. But barely damp, you don't need to make the hair wet.
For the face, I only use the cloth, always damp. For the genitals, a wet sponge with a tiny bit of disinfectant in the bucket. Not so much for disinfecting, but to make insects less welcome.
The idea with grooming a horse is to rub him vigorously with soft tools, not to caress him with hard tools. Horses appreciate strong rubbing. Just watch how they rub themselves. They rub with all their strength on posts, walls and tree trunks. They don't rub gently on thick bushes or other things that'll go past their hair. They don't like that !
I have never met a horse that did not appreciate a good rub. I have met several, however, who would get irritated if you kept spinning around them tickling them here and there. Tickling is not friendly to a horse. When you touch him, touch him softly but solidly and with confident movements. Do not start stretching your arm, hold it in mid air, pull it back, reach again for a little touch etc. It makes the situation look iffy and the horse insecure and very irritated.
On the other hand, do not be rude either. Entering the stall and immediately grabbing the horse's leg is rude. Whatever you entered that stall for, say hello first. Let him smell you. Yes, he knows you already, and you were there one hour ago, so what? Let him take his sniff. Then put your hand on his face to tell him all is ok and scratch his withers gently. Then proceed with your task. You only need 10 seconds or so to be polite. On the other hand, beating around the bush is not being polite, it is being confusing. Get done with your task, do not stand there being silly for ages.
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Member:
Shanson
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 2:29 pm:
Careful with the Show Sheen...it can make horse's hair so brittle that it breaks off. This happened with my mare and she lost a lot of her mane. I'm told that if you mix it with conditioner, it's not so bad, but I haven't tried it.
This same mare used to be protective of her flank when grooming or even if you just touched her there with your hand. In her case, she may have been a little ticklish, but really it was a training/respect issue. She would try to threaten me over it...ear pinning, thinking about kicking, and so forth. I learned to handle her appropriately and she quit doing it. I've heard that this is not unusual behavior with mares...don't know about geldings.
For their faces, I recently started using one of those kinda big synthetic sponges you can buy at tack stores. I rinse it with clean cool water and use it to clean their nostrils, muzzle, and around eyes and ears. They LOVE it because it cools them off and scratches their itchy spots. The synthetic material is stiff and rough enough to be a good scratcher without being too much.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 2:55 pm:
Christos,
I like your way of thinking, your style. Very good post.
Shirl
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Member:
Aewheele
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 3:19 pm:
Christos, what a great post! You've just changed my way of grooming forever. Thank you.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 3:32 pm:
Shirley, me too... as per usual ... Thanks Christos.
But it's the curry my horse doesn't like, in front of his flank...thinking that ulcer thing again... he's not mean about it, just walks as far as the cross ties will let him to make a statement. I say stand and he does... It could be a respect issue, we have a pretty good bond but we could always work at it
Sharon, I forgot that about the show sheen, thanks. What about Vetrolin?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 3:56 pm:
Try a softer curry comb, Aileen. The ones that are made of sticky very soft material work very well.
Grooming a horse with just the currycomb requires a serious effort, do not hurry to like it or not before you have a go at it a few times. It is surely exercise, so don't kill yourself the first time. It becomes a lot easier as you get into shape.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 15, 2006 - 7:49 pm:
Did it He didn't budge...softer curry on his body with more concentration on the strokes...how did you know I was hurrying?
I used a sheepskin mitt after the curry.
Yes, it is a workout Thanks Christos.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:55 am:
Everybody is in a hurry, Aileen, me too.
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 10:42 am:
I have a great tip for tails (and long manes too). Get one of the products made for frizzy hair (similar to the John Frieda Anti Frizz-Ease Serum.) I get mine from Sally's Beauty Supply. There is a whole section of this kind of product. It is clear - get the cheapest and the thickest (the thin spray doesn't work very well.) All of them have some kind of a simethylcone in them.
Put a good sized blob in your hand. Rub it between both your hands and then work it through the tail -particularly in the middle - not just the outside. Then comb through. Any dirt on the tail comes off on your hand so this is a great way to comb out a tail in the winter when you can't bathe.
You won't believe how wonderfully silky the tail (mane) is. It stays for up to a week and really helps to prevent breakage.
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Member:
Aannk
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 12:17 pm:
OK I will go through my routine, hope it will help some folks, but the posts here are already very good.
I start with a plastic curry on the meaty parts of the horse, circular motion, and with the other hand use those soft rubber hand mitts on the whole body, the parts I just did and the parts I didn't. I make sure to get all over the face with the soft one, including under the crown piece on the halter and under the chin.
Next I use a medium hard plastic brush all over except the face - this brush is used mostly to get the dirt off, I concentrate on the lower legs with it. Next, wipe the face and under the tail with baby wipes, I usually use about three. I make sure I get in and out of the ears and my mare's "area". Next, I use a softer horse hair long brush all over. Next, I use a finishing brush on the large areas, not the bony areas. Then I take whatever the season dictates, fly spray in the summer, coat polish or conditioner in the winter, and spray it all over and use a terry cloth towel and rub with the hair and use this time to do a little massage and feel over the whole body for heat or inflammation. Next I brush the mane and forelock, pull a few hairs to maintain the length of the mane, and brush just the top of the tail, checking the dock for bugs and dry skin. If there is dry skin, I use MTG on the tail and rub it in.
By the way, if during my grooming, I find a cut, I apply antibiotic ointment to it before spraying, and avoid it when using the terry cloth. I also would have put chlorhexidine on my mare before the second brushing on her scratches. Last, I pick the feet, and put on a 1 part bleach 10 parts water solution on the soles and frogs.
In the winter, I will rub a fabric softener sheet on the horse as I go to help static discharge.
After I ride, I will hose with plain water if it is hot, or use liniment if they worked hard.
If I had to wet them, I will squeegie, but not brush them. I will re-apply the cut medicine and put cream and diaper ointment on the scratches. I will then spray with fly spray again.
In the winter, I brush with the medium brush again and re-apply the ointments and meds.
Yes, it DOES take a long time, but I get satisfaction from a clean well groomed horse, and all my horses have enjoyed this, up till my newest, but he is in training and is getting used to human handling.
Alicia
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 1:33 pm:
I avoid silicone products for manes and tails when I can because they make them look heavy for my taste and the shine is very artificial.
The traditional method is to use your hand to rub/dust the horse after you're done with the curry comb. This will leave a fine mess of a white gunk on your hands. You rub this stuff on the mane and tail, untangling and combing with your fingers. Rub your hands first to warm them so this grease transfers better to the tail and mane.
The mess on your hands will be unbelievable, this grease sticks really well. To wash my hands afterwards I use this special soap, what they use in car repair shops to clean their hands from grease after work. I do not suggest the procedure to anyone who does not have this soap to wash afterwards (try removing it with water only or a common soap, you will understand why horses are waterproof in rain).
This is quite a task, mind you, and tough on your skin because manes and tails are tough hair.
If the mane and tail are badly tangled, I'll use some silicone product to make my life easier, but at least a week or so before a show so the heaviness and artificial shine will have time to go away.
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Member:
Shanson
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 2:18 pm:
Christos, this labor-intensive process you describe sounds very interesting. I've never heard it, but am interested in trying it. I curry more than the average person, but not as much as you describe. How long do you curry on average if you're riding/grooming a horse regularly? I have smallish horses...one's a 14.2 mustang & the other a 15-hand quarterhorse.
Aileen, you're right, that doesn't sound like a respect issue. I never curry hard in that sensitive spot. I mainly use those soft black rubber curry brushes, which they tolerate well.
I don't know how Vetrolin linament would work as a Show Sheen replacement. I don't use it regularly enough to have experience. Really, all my horses manes look great with very simple, but frequent, grooming regimen. Done frequently, mine never develop tangles. So all they need is a simple brush-out...I'm bad and use stiff brushes...they lose a little hair, but with care it's not enough to be a problem for me. After riding, I rinse them off with a hose and that's it.
Now, this weekend I've volunteered to help a friend detangle his horse's tail. He hasn't groomed this horse in months and its tail is a rastafarian mess! That will be painstaking detangling by hand...I hope it works!
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 2:20 pm:
Maybe you are using too much? I only use the size of a quarter for the whole tail. No heaviness and not much shine, but wonderfully soft. Doesn't even feel like horse hair.
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 2:59 pm:
I read an interesting manuscript written in 1782 outlining the standing orders for grooming the horses of the British Dragoons. It detailed their grooming routine as follows:
1. Curry the entire horse.
2. Wisp the horse using a straw wisp (as a kid in England, we used empty feed sacks instead).
3. Brush the horse first against the grain of the hair and then with the grain, starting at the hindquarters and working forwards to the neck (I thought this was rather interesting).
4. Brush out the mane and tail but first dip the tail in water.
5. Go over entire horse with a "horse cloth" with the grain of the hair.
6. Brush the mane and tail again using a wet water brush.
7. Rub the legs for 8 to 10 minutes.
Each groom was assigned four horses and this routine was followed prior to and after all riding.
As for me, I prefer a good vacuum cleaner and a healthy supply of Cowboy Magic! (Haven't met a horse yet that once used to the noise of the vacuum fails to fall in love with the massaging action.)
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:12 pm:
YIKES If i groomed all my riding horses like that i would never be able to ride.. .. i do a quick strong brush over all the body, checking for lumps and bumps as i go.. afterward i usually hose off or sponge off.. I never brush Tail or Mane.. if there is something in it will pull it out by fingers.. When i wash the tail, i leave in the conditioner.. that works well and is cheaper.. ! ALL my horses have strong / shining/ healthy coats... I do add oil to their diet as well..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:21 pm:
At one time, someone told me that to get the best shine on a horse, after a good grooming, rub the horse down with Irish linen. Months later, I happened to mention this to my Mom and wouldn't you know it, she happened to have some on hand. She sacrificed the skirt she was going to make with it and I tried it. At the time, my horse was a very coppery colored chestnut TB. The linen made him look like a newly minted penny. You could practically see your reflection in his coat and I won some best turnout awards when showing. Now, however, I have a gray horse and it's all I can do to keep her looking white, and grays just don't have the shine that chestnuts or bays have.
I like the Vetrolin spray. I only use it on mane & tail. My mare has a thick mane but skimpy tail so I brush it only about once every 2 weeks, carefully pulling out twigs in between. The Vetrolin reduces brushing damage and on her at least, does not make the hair go flat or heavy
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:27 pm:
Sharon, it takes me some 15-20 minutes curry combing and dusting every day before riding. That's on 18.2 hh, a big surface to clean! Mane and tail I only shake and dust a bit if they're not badly tangled. Add 5 minutes for cleaning face and genitals and 5 minutes to check lower legs, hooves and shoes.
When I'm in a hurry or lazy I'll just do the saddle and girth area and check the legs.
Once a week it is curry combing to perfect cleanness, usually 20-30 min and another 15 min to treat mane and tail.
Linda, I do not know, I use barely enough to be of some help in untangling and it still makes it look heavy. A friend suggested to use very little and let it soak in for an hour or so before grooming, I haven't tried this yet.
Sue, I believe a damp hay wisp gives the best shine you can get. Some say it is because of natural oils in the hay, I do not know. To be honest, I am not really sure it makes such a difference, it can very well be that I just like using the silly thing.
Wisp banging is useful to desensitise the horse and build trust, but it does not build muscle, as you may hear. Actually it just relaxes the big muscles and they hang looser, the horse looking very muscular as he walks away with all that meat flopping around. But it takes a little trot only or the horse being startled for the effect to disappear.
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:29 pm:
I know what you mean, Ann. With a full-time job an hour drive away from home, a barn and property to look after, boarders to cater to, three horses to ride, and a husband needing some attention, time is of the essence in my life.
The vacuum is nice and easy but if I don't have time to drag it out, a quick brushing with one of those soft, long-bristled, flicky type brushes does the trick along with a few dabs of Cowboy Magic. And gotta love the warmer seasons when a few minutes under the hose rinses off the sweaty bits and cools them down.
Then on to the next one!
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:36 pm:
Hi Christos
I've never heard that wisping (or strapping as we used to call it when I was younger) builds muscle because obviously that is impossible. We did it to add shine and to encourage good circulation just as a good massage does.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:46 pm:
It is an old theory that hard wisping, banging the big muscles rhythmically with the wisp, builds muscle as the horse learns to contract and relax these muscles with the rhythm.
The equivalent of some modern TV commercials, I suppose. How old (and how wrong) some "modern" ideas are...
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:49 pm:
Fran, I guess the feed sacks I used as a kid were kind of the "poor man's" version of Irish linen since they had a similar bumpy surface to the cloth. Sure did make the coats shiny.
However I believe that what you put inside the horse is more important than what you do to the outside to end up with a healthy, shiny coat. That and lots of exercise.
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 4:52 pm:
Yup, Christos, just like those weight-loss machines where all you have to do is lie on a table while the machine does the exercise for you! There really is a sucker born every minute!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 8:36 pm:
I swear by Cowboy Magic to untangle manes and tails. Show Sheen, if used on a dark horse, will bleach out the horse's coat if he's in the sun; so will oil of any kind.
To get the best shine on a horse, I've been told to curry for 10 mins. a day. The currying gets blood moving and works out impurities, and distributes oils to the hair.
I'm allergic to dust and horse dander, so when the horses are really dirty, I bathe or vacuum. The horses seem to love both.
I've used "gunny sacks" or burlap squares, and seen pieces of cactus cloth used for finishing. I think the cactus cloth is made from hemp.
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Friday, Jun 16, 2006 - 11:11 pm:
Great discussion. I try and rub my mares down with just my bare hands once a week. I don't get the white stuff that Christos described, but a grayish mess with a similar consistency. After a good hand rub they really do shine. Leilani
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 12:41 am:
You are right, Leilani. I meant a light colour, it can be gray, yellow or light brown.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 8:49 am:
Ya' all have some very lucky horses!! I usually just groom seriously where the saddle & cinch goes. A quick brushing all over with a stiffer brush, comb out the mane & tail, pick feet and go.
Even then, it seems like I spend 2 hours per horse, counting training/riding time. (Hey I love it, really, but I am trying to work 3-4 horses a day, plus hold down the fort)
On very hot & muggy days, like today, I might give a bath.
I've always heard one should "ride a shine" on their horses, thus I figure less time grooming, more time riding!
You have all given some great ideas for grooming though and I'll be doing things a little different, and maybe a little longer.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 10:42 am:
On a daily basis the Healthy Hair conditioner doesn't leave a false looking shine - one reason I like it. It doesn't attract dust like a lot of the other products do either.
Like the idea of using human defrizz products. I have a cupboard full of them since I have naturally curly (frizzy) hair and am always seeking the "perfect" product to control it. Now I know what to do with all my "rejects."
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 1:19 pm:
Angie, it greatly depends on the situation.
If a horse is stalled without interaction with other horses, grooming twice a day for at least 15 min each time is, I believe, mandatory, an absolute minimum for a healthy horse mind. That is usually before and after riding. Riding, leading and longeing is work, it does not count as social interaction.
If the horse has plenty of play with other horses, extra grooming only serves to strengthen your bond with the horse, the horse itself will be fine without it.
But if the horse starts making a face when he sees you, runs to not be caught etc, may be some more grooming will make meeting you a better experience for the horse.
I now balance this by means of a halter.
If the horse does not come to the halter, it means he's not having much fun being caught, that his experience with me is not something he seeks out. That's kind of ok, he doesn't really have to be in love with his work. So I just go fetch him.
But if he sees the halter and runs or turns his back, it means he's not having any fun at all with me, that being with me is something he hates, mostly because it is all work and no fun. Then, of course, I must back off work a step or two and include some more fun ie more grooming and playing.
Yes, of course I can make a horse never turn his back when I enter the stall. But I do not do that anymore. For the same reasons, I do not teach them anymore that they better come to me when they see me in the pasture. I prefer them to speak their opinion, so to say.
So grooming is not about beauty and shine, it is about doing our horse a favour to balance the favours we ask of him. It's about giving. We must give something in return if we want our partner willing and happy.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 2:15 pm:
Christos,
I, too, have learned to listen to my mare - didn't have a choice, she has an opinion on everything. But because I have listened and tried to understand what she wants (as I expect of her), she now finds ways to get my attention when she wants something. Yesterday, the horses had been fed, everything done, and I looked out the back window and she was standing in the place she stands when waiting to eat. I have found that when she does this, she usually wants something. Yesterday, I walked out the back yard and thru the gate she was standing next to. When I just about reached her, she turned and walked to her stall and stood there. She was stomping, shaking her head, swishing her tail. I fly sprayed her and she walked off happy as can be. She has done this on occasion when she was not feeling well, and once when our gelding had wandered to the back of the property and had escaped the pasture. She got my attention and then started walking down a trail toward the back. She stopped a few times and looked back at me and then went on. I found Yogi on the other side of the fence running back and forth wanting back in. If you listen, they will speak.
Kathleen
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 6:06 pm:
Christos,
Very well written. You are speaking of the bond we share with our horses and how grooming is part of that. I agree. And yes, I do groom without riding/training, and I must have some balance as my horses don't run away from me...o.k., the one usually does, but it's a game we play.
When I referred to "riding the shine" on your horse, I was thinking of all the beautiful horses who spend 23 hours a day in a stall, and mega bucks spent on all kinds of grooming products, fancy feeds, etc., the while the horse has no life. The horse may indeed "shine" from all the exterior things, but not "shine" from riding, good muscle tone, and as you said above, the bond between horse and human.
I think that one can also play with your horse on a line, and have it not be work but rather a social interaction. 5 minutes of quick review, leading past or over some new scary things, a walk someplace new, I don't consider these work for a horse. But then again I didn't ask him his opinion, did I?
I had just received the book
"What Horses Reveal" today, (author, Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling, same guy who wrote Dancing with Horses) I don't know if I have gasped his concepts yet, or if I ever will. But this guy really seems to have a wonderful bond with horses just by being on their level. I am not too far into it yet, but I have no doubt he agrees with the concept of grooming as part of the bonding process.
Kathleen,
Isn't it amazing how smart these "dumb animals" are? we just have to watch and pay attention, and quit thinking in such "human terms".
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 7:53 pm:
I agree, Angie.
You can not have a healthy horse without adequate exercise. It softens too much and becomes susceptible to many ailments that are difficult to put in order and cure once they start.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 17, 2006 - 9:58 pm:
Angie,
Yes, she was talking to me long before I was listening to her. Now I have to watch what I ask of her, because she will try her best to give it to me, even if it is not in her best interest. She has a big heart (but then most Arabians do).
Kathleen
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 9:21 am:
In my opinion, there are some horses, the thin-skinned variety, who tolerate being groomed, but don't enjoy it and are relieved when you stop.
This doesn't mean that they don't come willingly to you when you want to catch them, nor that they don't enjoy hanging out with you (as evidenced by nuzzling, resting head on your shoulders etc.) but really wish you'd just give their crests a good rub and leave the rest of them alone!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 10:03 am:
I took my filly, Cleo to a little show yesterday. Mind you, this horse has constant turnout and only groomed when I ride. Certainly not for the length of time some have described here.
I got so many comments on how shiny and slick she looked. Everyone seemed shocked that she is pasture kept.
I think good grass, a roll in the dirt here and there, and free exercise make a naturally nice coat that just needs a little brushing and detangling to look good.
Of course, this is the "fading black" I spoke of in another post. I tried this shampoo for black horses on her. It helped get the red out of her mane and tail, less so on the body. But it turned my entire hands and forearms the most beautiful shade of bluish purple I ever saw!! Took a long time to get that off!! Just in time to use the black hoof polish....duh!
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 11:46 am:
Great topic!
I am not feeding my horses oil this year, the first time in 2-3 years, and I swear their shine is just as good if not better.
Am wondering if the extra oil on their coats when feeding oil doesn't attract more dirt and leaves their coats less shiney unless it is brushed clean. Any thoughts?
I have found too that working w/ long yearlings, there seems to be a great bonding w/ them when I bring them up in the fall and start grooming and round penning them- I really think it is the grooming that wins em over- they love it- they are thick skinned quarter horses for the most part. I groom the old fashioned way, start w/ a rubber curry, go to a stiff brush to wisp away dirt, then finish w/ a horsehair brush for the shine. With deligence and persistance I can get most if not all horses to stand still for currying the legs too.
The more time I spend w/ each individual horse the better our relationship. 2 weeks working and grooming a yearling, at the most and much sooner w/ some, for me anyway, leads to a friend for life.
I have one horse that is hard to catch, and must disagree w/ Christos on the theory that if you make life good for them they will come to you. She is a 7 year old broodmare, she is treated as well as any I have, has had no bad experiences at my place, but when I come into pasture w/ halter she takes off- was not always like this- started this crap about a year ago. I use to think she was stubborn, but now think she is just plain STUPID- lol- need to get her out of my gene pool. I have to take her to vet tomorrow and have been really trying to bond w/ her the last few weeks, when I feed, have been scrathching and rubbing on her without halter in hand. Anticipating a hard catch tomorrow- glad hubby will be home to be that warm body that helps to trap her in a corner of the pasture,if needed. Christos- how would you handle a mare like this? I have spent hours trying to work thru this, but it seems to only get worse.
Cowboy Magic is my favorite detangler for mane and tails, marvelous stuff but sure is pricey. Love the smell of the Extreme (think that is what it is called- coconut smell-ummmm) shampoo and conditioner, horses like it too.
Chris
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
Chris,
She may not be stupid, maybe she's just on to you!! We had an Arab mare, (over the rainbow bridge now)that was more aloof than friendly, but had her own view about when she would be caught or not!
I was feeling guilty reading this post, and gave 2 of our horses baths yesterday. One, who I expected to be be good, was not. The one I expected to act up, seemed to enjoy it. Unfortunately, the big horse flies were so awful, my other 2 will have to wait for rain, or another very hot and muggy day.
Question? Any harm if I didn't get all the shampoo out of a tail? Cowboy magic brand. Did wipe the underside down many times with wet rag, but don't think I got all the soap outa the tail hairs themselves. It did brush out really nice as it was drying, so I don't think any harm is done if I didn't get it all.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 5:27 pm:
I guess I am one of the lazy ones. I just use one of those grey /black grooming blocks once over quickly and if I am going near public a soft brush and thats only because I feel like Ing. He is never dirty in summer
even the water runs off him like he is a seal or something. I dont know if its the oil in the diet or not. I recently had to stop giving it to him as he is getting over weight. another bay here is like that also she is so shiny that its like they have this protective coating that doesnt even allow water or dirt to penetrate. Not that I am complaining or anything? Even if I did not groom after a week he would be clean and shiny. I am kind of spoiled. I like to think that he looks that way because he is just so healthy.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 2:29 am:
Oh, so she thinks she's the boss of the herd, Chris? Take the herd away!
I'd try to catch her first.
If she doesn't stand to be caught, I'd catch another horse and lead it to a different place, preferably where she can see it.
Then I'd try catching her again. If she doesn't cooperate, I'd catch another horse and lead it with the first.
Then I'd try to catch her again and so on.
If she manages to be last, I'd let her have her choice of not being caught, kind of letting her cook in her ideas for half a day or so, then bring the other horses back.
I would not even turn to look at her for the rest of the day if she chooses to be last.
Feeding the other horses where she can see them is good reinforcement of your point, should she play happy being alone.
I would not expect it to take more than two-three times of this for her to get the idea.
Once she gets the idea, ie she accepts being caught third or fourth, you give her one chance only, ie to be caught first or be left behind.
When feeding, instead of scratching and petting this particular mare, I'd interrupt her and send her to a corner, away from her feed until she understands that she's not so high in this barn's hierarchy.
With all horses, but especially dominant ones, making life good for them means teaching them the rules of the game as well.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 4:35 am:
I must note that I do not mean leaving her without hay or water, just without grain and attention.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 5:16 am:
Brilliant, Christos. I happen to have an alpha mare, too. Sometimes when I rotate pastures this is exactly how it goes. She is very willing to be caught last.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 6:37 am:
I thought I had heard everything in regards to catching a horse like this. It makes a lot of sense. Chris you will have to let us know how it goes.
Katrina
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 4:47 pm:
We must give something in return if we want our partners willing and happy...(taken from Cristos' post on June 17th).
Wish my ex-husband could read this advice! LOL!
You must be an exceptional man and human being Cristos! What beautiful words for man or beast!
All of you have great techniques and advice!
Being a new, first time horse owner, I am always searching for new info.
My Standardbred is a bay. I spend at least an hour a day on his grooming.
His coat is beautiful, very shiny. His mane and tail are long, but dull in appearance.
I will try some of your examples and see what works for us.
My horse doesn't always appreciate the grooming ritual and only tolerates a very soft brush and one of those grooming blocks (black). I have one of the metal round curry combs that has a handle on it????-it was given to me by previous owner. I only use it when he is caked in mud (loves to roll in mud!). He doesn't seem to mind that piece of equipment (I haven't seen this type mentioned-are they obsolete)? He hates the stiff brush-pins his ears when he sees it in my box (need to put it away forever).
I would like to even his mane length-it is straggly. Is that acceptable? Am I wrong in braiding his mane in fly season?
I recently purchased a few of the Oster brush/comb products and I love them.
Oh, recently someone told me that dappling is a sign of good health. Is this true? I was told that this is the first time in 5 years that my horse has dappled. Am I doing something right or does this just happen? I have only had him since last August.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 5:20 pm:
My wife would have some interesting comments on this, I suppose. This is why I always prefer my horses "speaking" for me instead.
Metal curry combs come from times before plastic and rubber. I have used it some times to break loads of mud but with a tapping motion, not rubbing.
Today's plastic and rubber curry combs are a lot friendlier to the horse, so they allow you to work stronger and faster and because they're a bit sticky they remove loose hair and dirt much better than metal ones.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Jun 19, 2006 - 5:39 pm:
Angie, I'd rinse just the tails again, no need to start them getting itchy...it was shampoo, not conditioner, right?
Shirley! HyDrOcortisone cream...I know you said ZO, but I didn't have any, anyway, it worked thanks!
DJ, on the braiding, I'd like to get some other thoughts on this too. On the one hand, it appears to keep the neck cooler if braided, but then again, the mane protects the neck ... I braid when it's 100 and he's in his stall (by choice) under the fan Otherwise, I normally don't.
Christos, I've said it before, but I'll say it again...good to have you back
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 9:52 am:
DJ,
My understanding of dappling is that it is a sign of good health. Dappling is a gene and not all horses have it. So a horse that doesn't have the gene will not show dappling no matter how healthy he/she is.
Grooming preference for my horse depends on the time of the year. In the summer with the insects he can't get enough of the rubber curry and brushing. The more vigorous the better. In the winter he likes a soft curry very gently and only the soft brush or only a soft rub rag.
When he foundered his skin was so sensitive I couldn't curry or brush him at all.
I read a very interesting article by Dr. Jane Leon about fatty acid supplements for cats and dogs. The article talks about the need for a balance of both Omega 3 and Omega 6 fats. And that many diets are too high in Omega 6 (plant oils such as safflower, sunflower, corn, soybean) and not high enough in Omega 3 (canola, flax, wheat germ).
In dogs and cats a balance of the two fats can help in inflammation and skin problems. An imbalance can lead to yeast over-growth and worsened allergy problems.
I wondered if the same thing might apply to horses. After reading this article we began supplementing with corn oil and ground flax seed. We noticed a big difference in hair coats and even the broodmares that rarely get groomed are super shiny. Everyone that comes to the farm comments on how good the horses look.
These seem to be the main two ingredients in most of the coat supplement products I look at. But it is much cheaper to feed the two ingredients yourself.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 10:01 am:
There is a lot of good advice here! And, it reaffirms there is more than one way to do things right. Although some things hold true across the board, like good diet and exercise, a lot, I think, depends on the horse involved, climate and conditions it lives under, how the horse is used, etc.
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Member:
Aewheele
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 12:24 pm:
My horse's tail seems to have taken a beating since I moved him to a new barn. He used to have a very thick beautiful tail. Now I see a lot of breakage and thinning. What can I do to protect his tail from further damage?
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 2:53 pm:
Ann, it would be nice if she's not as stupid as I think, and is really outsmarting me, I would be happy to admit I am wrong if that is the case, would rather she be a smart mare than a stupid one-
Thanks Christos. I cancelled vet appt yesterday for other reasons, but farrier came this morning (early), I was a little late getting around and was not there to help catch Dollie (the hard catch mare) at first. By the time I got on the scene farriers wife had easily caught the other mare in pasture w/ Dollie, and was trying to catch Dollie w/ grain- I normally don't use grain to catch but didn't say anything. When I got there to help, Dollie allowed herself to be caught by going under the shed and letting herself be trapped in. Not sure if it was the thought of getting grain or she was just being cooperative today. Dollie is by no means alpha mare, unless she is in w/ very young horses, on the broodmare side she is lowest on the totum pole. I like your suggestion and in fact have done similar if not the same. I have taken away the other horses and tried to catch her last, no way, one time didn't pursue and left her, she didn't get her hoofs trimmed that time. I have done the ignore suggestion, maybe in different ways,and have in the past year put her by herself in a pasture or simply kept her in a 50 x 50 paddock for several weeks and treated her like a step child- minus any abuse- it did make her a little more receptive and more eager for my companionship- but being caught with a halter was still not what she wanted to do. Once caught is very respectful and no problem to lead etc.. She is definetly a different wired horse- her previous owner who green broke her as a 2 year old (I bought her in foal when she was 3) did mention he thought she was a little stubborn. I will do as you suggested and see what happens, we have another vet appt this Sat., I wont be able to ignore her then of course, but will try it before then to see if I need to stall her, to make the 10 o'clock appt..
Back to grooming- I use the metal curry combs in the spring when horses are shedding. That is about the only time my horses will allow it, it hurts or tickles too much when they are shed out.
I too have heard that metal will break the hair, but I see no evidence of it, it will break the mane the tail hair and I have always wondered if that is what people were referring to- also wonder why in the world one would use a metal curry on mane and tail anyway. Metal curry combs are also good on dryed mud, which is the only other time other than shedding time I will use one. They do have their place, and I must admit to owning several of them.
Chris
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 4:22 pm:
Chris, try this site on catching a hard to catch horse
https://horses.about.com/od/commonproblems/a/catchhorse.htm
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 4:24 pm:
If she doesn't care being alone while watching others getting grain, a round pen or small arena is a good thing to try, Chris.
You try to catch her, she runs, you make her run some more than she likes, like 3-4 laps more. Then allow her to stop and try to catch her. If she runs, make her run again 3-4 laps more than she likes.
When she stands to be caught you pet her a bit and leave for 10 minutes.
Then you try to catch her again and so on.
This may help her understand that running from you is not so funny.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 4:27 pm:
another article on catching horses
For your hard-to-catch horse: you need to "walk him off." To do that, put on a pair of comfortable walking shoes and allow yourself plenty of time (you shouldn't need more than an hour). Walk out into that pasture/pen with halter in hand (don't try to hide it) and look your horse square in the eyes with a look on your face that says, "I am going to catch you come hell or high water, if it takes me ALL day!" Walk after your horse, straight towards his head, looking him straight in the eye. Do not chase him and do not try to corner him or any of those other games horses love to play. He will run off, tail up in the air but the mental pressure you are putting on him will start to drive him crazy. It may take a while (the worst horse I ever walked-off took 45 minutes) but eventually he will not be able to take the pressure and he will stop, turn and face you with his head down. At this point you should stop and turn your back to him for a moment, taking the pressure off of him as a reward for doing the correct thing. Then approach him slowly and casually with your eyes down and averted and your shoulders cocked away from the horse (there must be a distinct difference in your body language from when you are pursuing him to when you are walking up to him after he has given in). Put the halter on, lead him a few steps, pet on him and let him go. You could give him a treat at this point if you want to (only AFTER you have caught him, NEVER use a treat as a bribe to catch a horse). The next day, you'll head out to catch your horse in the exact manner but you'll find it will only take a few minutes, from then on he should be fine. Horses are very keen to your level of intention and determination. This process proves to your horse that you have very serious intentions to catch him and he will not challenge you anymore. Give it a try, it really works! Good luck! Julie Goodnight, Clinician and Trainer jgoodnight@ridingschool.com www.juliegoodnight.com FOLLOW-UP Dear Julie, Thanks so much for your suggestions a few months ago on how to catch a horse that does not want to be caught. I tried your suggestions--walking determinedly toward the horse with the lead rope and halter. She ran. I followed--walking, not running. When I got near, she ran again, and I followed. We continued this process for about 20 minutes, when she surrendered and let me put the halter on her. The next time I tried to catch her, she tried me and ran away a short distance, but stopped when I came after her. For a few days, we went through this process. Then, one day when I opened the gate, she came to me. Now I can catch her any time! J. L. Texas
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 4:58 pm:
Walking them off as described in Katrina's last post works very well if you don't mind the walk and the pasture is not too big.
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 5:30 pm:
Linda,
How much corn oil and ground flax seed? Do I purchase these at a feed store? Also, my horse is a REAL easy keeper...do I need to worry about his weight (fat) with this?
Hmmm...sensitive skin because of founder. I didn't know that could be an issue. Before I actually owned this gelding, he had a severe bout of laminitis (I only beginning to learn about laminitis and founder differences). I DO believe this guy foundered many years ago (through the grapevine). He has not been x-rayed to my knowledge so, I don't know if he has any rotation. I would like to have the vet do the radiographs when he comes on his next visit (just for my own piece of mind). Why does the skin become sensitive with founder?
I use the metal curry comb on mud and for his winter shedding (never on his legs though)! To be candid, I used it on his mane and tail before I became a member of H/A. I have just learned so much here! Since then, I have only separated his mane/tail with my fingers and the softest brush. That's why I wanted to know what I could use safely.
Dede, I have seen tail wraps or covers in many of the catalogs. Would that help you? I believe they use them for shipping purposes? I'm new at this so...I don't honestly know! Just a thought! (Stateline Tack, Jeffers, Dover Saddlery)
Any more advice on the braiding? I don't show or anything (just started riding). I just braid his mane to please me (love to be with him). Perhaps it is better to leave it natural so the flies can't bite his neck! Just wondering!
You people are my only link to horses. I don't know anyone that has a horse (other than current harness racing people-tracks) and they aren't too interested in helping me with a retired pacer. I don't have anyone to ask or help me except YOU!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 5:46 pm:
Yes, Katrina, I find that the game gets over with quickly, too.
Some horses do find it a game. The App I grew up with was a notorious hard-catcher, but I honestly think he enjoyed playing. I would enter the field and he would canter in circles around me with his tail in a flag. I would get madder and madder and I think he was laughing at me!! If he really wanted to get away, you'd think he'd head for the farthest point, but he would do perfect twenty meter circles around me sputtering in the center!
As to grooming...I love the Oster brushes. Both the soft body brush and a really cool mane/tail brush. Soft rubber spikes that work great and don't pull out the hair. Key is to start detangling from the bottom, of course. When you have a few inches detangled, move up a couple of inches until you reach the root. I also hold the hair above where I am brushing so the pull doesn't go all the way to the root. My horses all have long, natural manes and tails and I lose very little hair this way.
DJ, as far as braiding, if your horse has a really thick mane, he might be more comfortable braided in the heat. But a thinner mane is probably more of an asset to getting rid of flies than it is a heat blanket.
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 20, 2006 - 9:30 pm:
Christos and Katrina- thanks- I have to laugh, and forgive me please, as I have done these things too.
I have walked off many horses and it does work, also I get Julie Goodnights e-mail and have done that too. The second I see them look away from me or turn their heads or ears away, I send them on, I like to make them at least trot from me if not lope. I have the perfect sized pastures for this, The last time I tried the walk off thing, I was there for 1 1/2 hours and still getting no where w/ Dollie- I mean no improvement what so ever.
Other horses I have done this w/, 45 minutes is the max, they will usually go into the corral and allow themselves to be caught, and the next time you try to catch them is always easier and takes way less time, it does work, but not on this mare-lol. Whats weird is she wasn't always this way, this started last year about this time, haven't a clue why the change either.
I am going out and try the first thing Christos suggested- will take her pasture mate out and take her about 1/2 a block away- Dollie will know where she is at- its the place where all my horses seem to want to be, then go back and see if Ms Dollie will let me catch her. Keep fingers crossed.
Chris
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 12:00 am:
Good News- it worked.
I got both halters out of feed room, approached Dollie first, she walked away, but not far, I stood still for a moment and approached her again, same thing. The other horse, Mito, was following me, I haltered her, and approached Dollie again, same thing, walk off. I took Mito out of pasture and down the block, Dollie squealing and talking whole time. I tie Mito and she talks for few seconds and that is all out of her- Dollie in mean time is pacing the fence, running to each corner, and being very noisy. As I approach she gets more excited, I walk into pasture and walk about 40 feet to her halter, she is watching me whole time and still being quite hyper. I pick up halter and approach her, she turns and runs to the gate, where she stays, shuts up and quietly stands while I praise and rub on her, then put halter on, she is a complete angel from then on. I did rub her eyes where flies had been and massaged her face a little, and I let her graze on the lush ditch grass on way to where Mito was.
Now, why did this work this time and not the other times? Could it have been because I have kept her in solitude for many months this past year? This spring she was penned up by herself, until a few weeks ago, I was breeding her with shipped semen and often having to haul her 4 days a week to vets and didn't want to have to chase her for several hours before going. She was basically ignored except for feeding times and trips to vet. I have to admit I was holding a grudge w/ this mare.
Thanks Christos, what a great feeling to get this done, keeping fingers crossed it will happen again.
Aileen so sorry for interrupting your topic.
Chris
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 12:38 am:
AWESOME POST !!!  .
Gleaning all kinds of tips from this one. Thanks for starting Aileen.
Perhaps these two have their own ideas about grooming....he he he.
Susan B.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 10:27 am:
DeDe - If your horse is kept in a stall, a tail bag might work. I have seen ones that come all the way up to the rump of the horse.Also, a good conditioner would help if the tail is getting to dry and brittle.
I would also double check for any medical reasons the horse might be rubbing the tail and thus breaking off hairs. If this is a new barn for her, could she have picked up mites? Worms? Some other "bug" that would be causing itching? Is the new barn in an area that has more biting insects than where she was? Has her diet changed?
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Member:
Aewheele
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 10:57 am:
Hi Sara,
My horse does not live in a stall anymore. He lives in a large paddock attached to the barn. Other horses get turned out in the paddock with him, and he is moved to a grassy area each day to graze. Given his proximity to other horses, I don't think the bag will work.
If he is rubbing, it's going to be hard to determine, but I'll inspect the fencing the next time I'm there.
I have checked his dock area to see if there are any parasites in view. I have not found anything. Is there something specific I should look for?
Most of the breakage is occurring around the middle of the tail. His dock area is full, but he starts losing thickness further down the tail. I will try a conditioner to help with any brittleness.
There seem to be fewer biting insects at this new barn, but I also apply long-lasting fly spray about 4 days a week.
His diet has changed with the move. He seems happy and fit, however. What symptoms would I look for regarding issues with his diet? He's getting very high quality hay and good grass.
Is it possible that there are herd issues? Since it's a new barn and there is group turnout, I'm wondering whether the horses are working through establishing a new herd hierarchy. If he's the new kid in town, he may be getting picked on. I'm assuming that if this is the case, the problem will be solved once everyone is satisfied with the new hierarchy.
Is it possible that he has developed a nervous habit from being outside all the time? He used to live in a stall at least half the day. Now he is out all the time. I think he likes it now, but it may be possible that he needed some time to get used to it.
I appreciate any other suggestions and recommendations.
Thanks.
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 11:06 am:
DeDe- my first thought is there is another horse chewing on his tail. Young horses especially are very good at it. Is he in with a young horse occasionally?
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 21, 2006 - 11:09 am:
Maybe someone is chewing on his tail. Young horses tend to do it.
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 11:55 am:
DJ,
We use 1 ounce of corn oil per day with easy keepers and a little scoop that says 60cc for the ground flax also once a day.
Oil definitely has calories, but it is healthier for a horse to get calories from fat then sugar. I manipulate the grain to maintain my horses weight. I measure it in cups and cut back when he looks a little heavier - he is 16.2 and only gets about 3 cups on average. I used to keep my thoroughbred much heavier because I liked the look. Now because of the bad founder episode, I keep him where I can just barely see his ribs (see picture - he is 19 and I think looks pretty good.)
I know this is easier said than done with some horses. We have a 22 yr old Anglo Arab that is getting cresty. He seems to live on air, but we still give him the corn oil and flax seed and try and cut the sugar. If you have to you might try supplementing every other day.
Also, I have read that some research has been done on soaking hay to lower the sugar content. If I can only find a hay that seems too lush, I put it in a clean muck bucket and soak it for 1/2 hr. Then drain off the water.
As for the sensitive skin...have you ever had the flu so badly that you couldn't stand anything to touch your skin - not even the sheet? We tend to think of the body in parts, but and illness in one part effects the whole body.
The same horse I had a vet/chiropractor look at years ago because his back was essentially dead. He had no response to running your fingers down his spine. The first thing the vet did was look at his front feet (because he said what my horse was exhibiting often started in the front feet.)
He hated the way my farrier had him shod. I got a new farrier and the vet came and they had a conference before he was re-shod. After the first shoeing his back response was normal. I don't know if I would have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I started looking at health problems and the whole horse differently after that.
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 4:38 pm:
Linda-
Very handsome lad! Looks like you have a wonderful place for him.
Biv doesn't get any grain at this time. He doesn't get enough exercise to require grain. I am working on my riding skills after a 35 year lay-off. It's not his fault but, mine.
I will try soaking the hay. It's hard to find hay here that isn't good. Our rounds bales are sad things and the baled hay is wonderful! I will also try the oil and ground flax seed. Where do I get the flax seed?
Thanks for the skin sensitivity explanation. I would never have guessed.
Where did the expression, "healthy as a horse" come from? Geez, I never knew how many things could happen with equines. I think I worry more about my horse than I did my children. With these guys, you never know what to expect!
I can't see Biv's ribs...I guess I still don't have enough weight off of him. I can feel them without pushing.
My horse hasn't had shoes on for 3 years. He is an OTT horse. Biv was turned out for 2 years and now I've had him almost a year. I don't know what I will do in the future about shoes. I like the barefoot idea. Right now, I don't think he needs them for the riding I do with him. That's a whole other topic! I only ride him in the dry paddock, round pen and grass pastures. I am not skilled or secure enough to take him anywhere for trail riding, etc. I'll get there-I am determined!
My vet has promised to come within the next few days and test his blood for sugar and thyroid levels. I am sure he will offer his opinion on his weight without my asking! Actually, he told me not long ago that he looks better than he has in years. His teeth are fine, he's on a de-worming schedule, his feet are trimmed regularly...he is loved!
Susan B.-
I love the picture of your two grooming each other. I often wish I had another to keep my horse company. I know I need much more experience before I add to our family...it is mind boggling what goes into the care and love of a horse, isn't it? I am so grateful for mine.
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 5:07 pm:
DJ,
I am in a horsey area so ground flax is at every feed store. Maybe ask around at your local feed stores? I get a 5lb bag for $3.50. I wouldn't buy one of the big (40 or 50#) bags for one horse. It will take you forever to feed it and it will go rancid.
Rumor is also off the track - he raced for 4 years. Good sound legs for having had that life.
My story about shoes happened years ago. Rumor has been barefoot for a good 7 years now. But I've found it isn't any easier to find a farrier who will do a good trim. My present farrier ($50 a trim) maintains that the bad trim job my last farrier did is what foundered my horse.
I saw in your bio that you feed Calf Manna and am wondering why? If you have really good grass you may have to muzzle Biv some part of the day. We have a mare that just gets obese and although I HATE to, we do muzzle her during the day and then take it off at night.
I think it is great you are getting back into horses. I know what you mean about how hard it is. I don't ride much myself anymore. But it isn't like 20 years ago when I do.
Isn't your horse's name the acronym for the colors of the rainbow? Red, Orange, Yellow, Blue, Indigo, Violet, Green?
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 6:49 pm:
DJ,
These two are not mine. They live on the same barn facility that my horse lives on. I happened to be out one evening last week with my camera....something about the light and a glorious evening and caught these two having a go.
My own gelding was giving me these LOOKS about him NOT being able to dine on too lush grass. We have had rain here rivaling Biblical Proportions and then some.
His shoes were removed a month ago...doing the barefoot thing, so only time and skilled trimming will tell. We are constantly removing mud with all the rain...but that said; clay mud can certainly have it's cleansing properties.
He also has dapples on his coat. He gets approximately 40ml of "Raw Linseed Oil" a day with the rest of his rations.
Last year was a different story.....
Laser, my first and only horse at the moment has taught me many things about horsekeeping. This site with the Good Dr.O and his articles and the collective experience of his Members sharing their experiences is a GOLDMINE.
Maybe it is time to get your horse a "Buddy"  .
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 22, 2006 - 9:44 pm:
Linda-
Yes, Roy Biv G is the acronym for the rainbow colors. Actually, it should be Roy G Biv-when it was submitted to the USTA (United States Trotting Associations) for his registered name for harness racing, it was done incorrectly. To be honest, I wasn't aware of it's meaning. My daughter reminded me that she was taught the acronym when she was in grade school. I call him Biv or Bivvers. He's my pot of gold at the end of a rainbow! What a blessing he has been.
Because Biv isn't on the grass much (due to his weight, being prone to laminitis) I was told by the barn owner he should have calf manna for the vitamins he is missing. A gal at the feed store told me she gives all her horses 1/2 cup a day also. Is it bad for them?
It is so hard returning to riding. I was never afraid as a youngster or teen. It has taken me months to get comfortable with Biv. I am always cautious and respectful, but no longer terrified. I just wish I had someone to ride with and was around the barn that had riding experience. I do rely on HA for almost everything. I have tapes from every trainer and did attend Equine Affaire (Lyons, Goodnight, Roberts, Chris Cox, Curt Pate, Lew Sterrett-many more). It is overwhelming. Had to restart somewhere! The ground seems much further away than when I was younger! It's harder to get on and off and I have muscles that were long forgotten! I have lost 20 pounds though! It has been the best therapy for me. I feel better than I have in years!
I will call our feed store tomorrow! There are so many products out there and I don't honestly know what I need or don't need.
Biv gets sore and walks gingerly for days after the farrier comes. The guy knows that I am a novice and when I asked him if perhaps he was trimming him too short, he ignored me. Farriers are few and far between here. I did find one that I am very impressed with, believes in the barefoot way and was receptive to my questions. I will have to take Biv in a trailer to him because he is 2 hours away. Most charge $50.00 here also. How often do you have your horses trimmed? I know that my horse went a bit longer than he should have this last trim.
I have a muzzle. If I put it on him, he races back to the barn and pouts. If I block the paddock so he can't return, he finds another spot and stands there as if he were a statue. Seriously, he will not attempt to eat and will not move for hours until the muzzle is removed. I do NOT allow him to buffalo me into letting him have grass or any hay when it's removed! I don't have a problem putting the muzzle on him either. He is bull-headed and a sulker. It's amazing how he reacts to the muzzle. Absolutely refuses to even attempt to graze. I was hoping he'd get out and at least run, buck and move a bit...no way. Nothing. Just gets mad! (It is quite hot and humid here and I am leary of leaving it on him when I can't be there-he won't drink water with it on either). I have tried up to 5 hours on a weekend twice and he won't budge. Any suggestions?
My vet is coming tomorrow morning at 7 AM to do blood work on Biv. He said he needs to return 10 hours later for another draw. Wants to test for Cushings, etc. I have to read up on exactly what that is. I hope it's for the sugar and thyroid. I am sure that Dr. O has the information I will be looking for on HA.
Susan,
Regardless, I love the picture! Sweet!
I'd love to have a buddy for Biv-even a goat or minature donkey. The barn owners won't allow it. They had race horses for 27 years and do not want any more horses or animals on the premises. They are retired and away from the track and the daily worries/joys of having horses! If Biv hadn't been born there, we wouldn't be so lucky to have a place to be together. One mile from my home and a nice property. They have been very gracious. I take care of the barn, help mow, etc. and pay no boarding fee. It seems to work for all concerned. I am quite fortunate. They have become very dear friends. Neither has ever had a pleasure horse and I feel that race horse owners do things much differently. I am not being critical...only my observation. I am grooming for a trainer at the track on race nights (so I can learn more) and I just feel a distinction. Maybe because it's more business than pleasure.
Is Raw Linseed Oil the same as using Corn Oil? How do I know which one my horse needs?
I agree, this site is a GOLDMINE. It is so nice having people to talk to about horses. I am finding that a lot of people think I am a bit
"touched". Well, I am...on my heart, by a horse!
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 11:24 am:
DJ,
We might need to put this stream into another section. I feel like we inadvertently high jacked the grooming discussion.
I'll continue it in "Wild Horses And Founder" as I see you have been in there.
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Friday, Jun 23, 2006 - 7:19 pm:
Linda-
I went to our two feed stores today. No ground flax, corn oil or raw linseed oil. They have wheat oil and rice bran oil. I will go online and look. I live in a small town...not many horse enthusiasts. I will catch up with you on the other thread.
Christos,
Could you post a picture of a wisp? I have never seen one. Where do you purchase them-(or do you make them)? Sounds interesting.
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Member:
Judyh
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 1:25 pm:
I started riding at 37 and one of the things I have said is that I regret not having ridden as a child. Children and teens, and maybe some twenty-somethings ride without the, "What if..?" factor. What if a deer jumps out in front of us? What if my horse spooks into the road? I will never have the memory of riding without that. And now I have two horses and one I can no longer ride because of her unpredictability. She is still sound, but I am not. My back is not up to her anymore, so I have a sound 20 yr. old reg. QH that I'm looking to place with someone who will think her quirkiness is fun. I could retire her, but I think she will stay healthier if worked regularly.
In any case, I sympathize with your mature adult misgivings. Keep at it, using common sense and you will find it so rewarding. My husband always says I'm living out my 14-yr-old girl fantasies. Fine with me!
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 4:51 pm:
DJ, a wisp in the lazy sense can just be a large handful of straw or anything with a bit of texture to it - like a burlap sack, etc. In the old days, it was made of straw that was woven together into a sort of pad. You might want to do a search on the web and see if you can find an old depiction of one. It was kind of an art to make one when I was a kid. (Dating myself here!)
Sue
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 24, 2006 - 9:02 pm:
re: hijacking I'm fine with it...this turned into a fabulous thread...thank you all for the input!!
btw...no more itchies for the boy
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Member:
Christel
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 25, 2006 - 10:56 am:
I no longer have a 'hard to catch' horse. I found out Friday, Dollie is infoal- her whole personality has changed- she has no problem w/ me approaching her, with halter in hand-in fact she follows me around wanting my attention- is this weird or what?
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 25, 2006 - 6:03 pm:
That's great news! Good for you
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 6:27 am:
Here's how to make a hay wisp:
Arrange a line of hay on the floor, about 3 meters long, 30 cm wide and 30 cm deep. Wet it thoroughly by spraying it with a hose, let it soak a bit.
Press and roll it a bit on the floor like kneading dough out for finger cookies. This tangles it together so you can start twisting one end.
You will need a helper to twist the rope. You start in one end, twisting the hay into a rope about 2-3 cm thick. As you twist the first foot or so, you will need the helper to hold the twisted end and keep twisting it tight so you can work down the hay line. Actually you just lift the hay and press it a bit in your hands, it is the helper who does all the twisting.
Once the rope is twisted, take a length of fencing wire, some 2m long, and form two loops as shown in the picture. These loops can be from baling twine or the hay rope itself, but a stiff wire makes the job a lot easier.
While the helper maintains a tight twist, plait the hay rope in a zig-zag fashion around the wire loops as shown. Make it as tight as possible from the beginning.
When you reach the end of the hay rope, thread it through the two wire loops. Then tighten the loop in the bottom first by pulling one of the top loops. Then tighten the top loops by pulling the ends of the wire. Tie the ends together or twist them with a set of pliers and your wisp is ready.
Warning: I never said that the results of rubbing a horse with a wisp justify the effort of making one. You may not see a difference.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 7:10 pm:
Yikes! Christos...I think I'll stick to my brushes!!
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 27, 2006 - 9:09 pm:
Christos-
Wow! I make old fashioned "rag rugs" as an extra income. Good thing I can follow visual patterns-this may test my weaving abilities and my patience-LOL. I AM going to attempt to make a wisp. Hey, don't all horse people like a challenge? Thanks so much for the time and effort that you put forth for this answer. As always, your explanation and directions are beyond measure. My 21 year old son is home from college for the summer...he is unaware that he is going to be helping me-LOL! It will give us some "quality" time together, but he'll have to come to the barn....
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 12:05 am:
OK Christos, have you ever made one of these . . . . ?
I learned how to make simpler hay wisps when I was a kid in pony club. I wonder if it is still in the manuals now, I doubt it. I will say, the horses seemed to like them, but I dont know if they liked them any better than a good 'ol warm towel.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 2:02 am:
Yes, Shelley, I've made two or three.
They don't look half as neat as the drawing, I must admit. The drawing is just an attempt to show the idea of how to make one, don't use it as a model.
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Member:
Banthony
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 - 10:52 am:
DJ,
I looked at the picture of Biv on your member page and he is beautiful. You are obviously doing a great job. His weight looks good to me too.
A small warning: I was looking at an article about impaction colic on The Horse's (magazine) website. It was saying that poor quality hay is not very digestible and can be a reason for impaction. So I was wondering about the hay roll you mentioned.
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