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  Discussion on Electrolytes help!
Author Message
New Member:
Reese3

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 8:19 am:

Hi Dr. O. I posted a month or so ago about my horse uriniating frequently on the trail. (about 1 X per hour)I had asked if you thought it was a sel/e related issue and you felt it was not. I sort of forgot about it and figured 'at least he is urinating and drinking enough water.' Well, this week he started urinating much more frequently - 4 X per hour! I called our vet and collected a urine sample. He has a slight trace of protein but otherwise is normal. Our vet suggested putting him on electrolytes, 1 oz- 2X daily until he urinates normally and then back off to 1 oz for 30 days. My first issue is that I can NOT get him to eat it. I even prepared a 'cookie recipe' w/ it to encourage him to eat it and he will eat some but not all. I came to your site for further advice and found your article on electrolytes and it doesn't seem too positive. What is your opinion? My horses have access to free choice minerals 24/7 (Vigertone)and a salt block, plenty of water and I am feeding timothy hay right now at about 15 lb. each horse. (they also have some pasture). My horse is 5 and extremely healthy. I ride 4-5 X per week, pleasure riding. He does sweat, but our weather has been so beautiful this year he has never been ridden under stress. If it is too hot, we just don't ride. I am so unsure as to what to do. If it's not salt, what else could it be??
Member:
Tpmiller

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 9:16 am:

Not sure what the problem is. Over-urinating? Does it lead to dehydration?

Coming from an endurance background, where the use of electrolytes is the norm pre-travel, and pre, during and post competition, (buffered preferred).

We want to see a horse eat, drink, poop and pee.
Am not aware of anyone who electrolytes daily, outside of providing salt 24/7. (I prefer loose salt over block).

When we do administer electrolytes, (typically commercial stuff, and we vary between two specific products, each have slightly different formulas' with respect to amounts of potassium etc.,) we immediately follow orally with water, applesauce etc. to rinse the mouth thoroughly so that further drinking is not inhibited.

The article you reference makes perfect sense to me, there is a time and conditions where e-lytes are required, but I fail to see how daily administration connects with over-urination.
New Member:
Reese3

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 11:18 am:

Hi Timothy. (I tried to respond once, but it didn't post due to 'maintainance issues', so I will try again..)
No, he is not dehydrated at all. My vet also comes from an endurance background and she rides her horses much harder than I ride mine. I put about 100 miles per month on my horse, but it is all pleasure riding, with some trotting and little cantering. He has access to salts/minerals all day long, so this treatment puzzles me. She explained to me that sometimes an electrolyte imbalance can occur for various reasons and somehow this could have happened...maybe even by eating something in the field. She felt that his body maybe over-urinating to get rid of whatever it needs to, and so causing the imbalance. Any thoughts?
Member:
Bodie

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 2:26 pm:

Is he only doing the 4x an hour urination when you are riding, or all the time? If only when riding, is there a chance it is a behavior issue - he gets to stop when he has to urinate?

Julie
New Member:
Reese3

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 3:03 pm:

I only notice it when I am riding. And actually prior to this I had wondered if it was behavioral and my husband and I would chuckle and say, "ah Reese...another chance to rest and look for a blade of grass, eh boy?" lol. But it just seems odd that he can urinate a significant amount so often. I am going to ride him tonite and see how it goes. I wondered if he was triggered to urinate due to the pressure on his back. (?)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 7:25 pm:

Hello DLC,
Hmmm, I don't know how electrolytes are going to help such an issue: usually increasing salt consumption increases urinary output. I think I would like to see an evaluation of renal function, urine contents, and possibly visualize the bladder and other urinary system parts. This would include blood chemistries, urinalysis, and possible ultrasound. For more see Diseases of Horses » Urinary System » Normal Urination in Horses
and
Diseases of Horses » Urinary System » Excessive Drinking and Urination, Polydipsia / Polyuria (PD/PU).

How much does he urinate at a time and what does the uring look like? Is there straining?
DrO
Member:
Reese3

Posted on Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 - 8:04 am:

Thanks Dr. O -- he urinates a fair amount. A strong stream, no drippling or straining. The urine sample was cloudy. The urinalysis stated the specific gravity was normal and the ph was normal.

I rode him again last nite for 2 hours and he urinated 3 times. The last time was within minutes of the barn coming home, so I doubt it is behavioral - he knew he would be resting soon and has a nice clip coming home so I couldn't imagine him wanting to stop to pee at the point unless he just HAD to. This all seems so minor but I am worried too without knowing WHY.

Denise
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 - 6:44 pm:

Cloudy in not necessarily a sign of problems but three "fair amount" urinations in 2 hours is a bit unusual DLC, at least if I understand fair amount. Especially now, when it is hot and the body tries to conserve water due to heavy sweating.

If you would post all the most recent chemistry and urinalysis results, including both normal and abnormal, the labs normals, and be sure to include the units, I would be glad to review and comment.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 31, 2006 - 6:50 pm:

Hi DLC and Dr.O. I don't know where you are from, but I am in the midwest and have noticed my horses urinating alot more in the pasture. A couple times an hour. I have to wonder if it is something they are grazing on. I know right now the clover is trying to make a comeback and they are also DrOoling all over. Could it be something he is grazing on? or alot of alfalfa and, or clover hay?
Member:
Reese3

Posted on Friday, Sep 1, 2006 - 1:46 pm:

Hi Diane, I sort of suspect something like this. We live in the Midwest also. The pasture that he has been on is just an old field, with some grass, weeds etc. We suppliment with hay, 100% timothy. I could see him eating something he shouldn't..it is possible. I was wondering if maybe his body is trying to 'flush' it out? This would go back to the reason why the other vet suggested electrolytes, I suppose. I just spoke with an Equine University and they told me it is also possible that his kidney funtion is abnormal in that it has to be REALLY full before it will trigger a release. Maybe riding stimulates the kidneys to finally 'let go.?' Not sure. I still wonder why the drastic increase though as of last week. She suggested I get him to a clinic (nearest vet 3 hours) and have a full exam w/ rectal and blood work. She said the best thing would be to check his kidneys before and after he urinated to see if he empties or not. This could take a day or two. Thanks for your input Diane and Dr. O!
Member:
Reese3

Posted on Sunday, Sep 3, 2006 - 6:59 am:

UPDATE: After two days on the new pasture, and pulling away the loose minerals (which has some molasses in it and the MSU vet suggested it could be he is overeating on those due to boredom)my horse is BACK TO NORMAL! Yay! We rode 10 miles last nite and he urinated ONCE. I am so relieved. I am going to go back to the purina 12/12 minerals that do not have any sweetner in them and monitor it closely. When I called the local feed store, she remarked that I buy more loose minerals than anyone she knows. So, apparently my horses do go through much more than most. I think it's been too much of a good thing. Anyway, thanks for your support everyone and feedback. I sure enjoy this site.
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Sunday, Sep 3, 2006 - 8:54 am:

Good news DLC!
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, Sep 3, 2006 - 10:09 am:

DLC,

I use the Purina 12-12 also but only top dress with it according to the label directions. I used to think that with something like that, a horse would only eat what their body needs but one of ours will eat as much as you put out at any given time.

She was very malnourished when I got her as a yearling, and just seems to never get enough of anything so caution is needed.

I believe DrO not does support feeding minerals free choice, just salt.
Member:
Reese3

Posted on Sunday, Sep 3, 2006 - 3:03 pm:

Angie - I have been considering buying the TM Selenium block for now rather than going back to loose minerals at all. I can always suppliment as a top dress once I get them off pasture and back to their winter corral. I just think it would be safer overall. So I agree! Thanks.

Yes Good news, Diane! A simple solution, thank heaven!
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