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Discussion on The Hay woes!!
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 10:14 am:
I've had my horses home for a year now (Sept to Sept) and I've had the WORST experiences with hay-buying then I'd have ever imagined. When they first came home, I was getting hay from a wonderful supplier. That hay ran out early last winter and they stopped producing (owner got very sick). My search really started then and it didn't help that it was a bad year for hay growers here. My first stop was to a horse dealer that sold me crap hay (see my thread on Heaves!!  ). After that, I started getting hay trucked in from South Dakota (good quality, but very, very expensive), in Spring I tried out various other suppliers that either tried to sell me yellow straw as hay, or moldy and/or smoky hay. My latest supplier started me off with great hay, and now with my second delivery, I'm finding the same old problems. Many bales are smoky, moldy smelling, etc. My friends that get good hay are only getting enough to get them thru the winter, so no help there. It seems like giving out your hay suppliers name is akin to giving out your bank information now-a-days!
My problem is, I don't know where to look anymore. Of course growing season is done here, so probably most hay is sold by now. Are there hay "brokers" who search for this stuff for people? Are brokers just as likely to give you bad hay? I feel like I'm the only one with this constant problem and I don't know what to do anymore. I've exhausted most options in my area (at least with those that advertised their hay). Any suggestions? I should add that I live in southeastern Wisconsin and our prices vary from $2.50-$3.75 a bale. My South Dakota hay was $325/ton!! AMAZINGLY expensive for me!
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:03 am:
Hi Kim, where in S.E. Wisconsin are you? I know the fella I get hay from delivers in the chicago area. (his hay is wonderful) I don't know what he charges for delivery, but I pay $3.75 (we pick it up) for a 80# bale, which lasts my horses about 3 days.
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Member:
Cheryl
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:18 am:
Wooo- $325 a ton is way high - here in central western Montana it runs about $85.00 a ton - But don't think you are the only one having trouble finding good hay. When we lived in Kentucky the situation got so bad I had to switch my horses to hay cubes - and even then I had to feed a combination alfalfa/grass cube because they wouldn't order straight grass ones. I bought a couple round bales that were absolutely nothing but weeds and dirt. Now I'm in an entirely different situation - hay that is mostly alfalfa that I can't feed - and I'm looking like crazy for some good grass hay. We had about 1000 bales from out 8 acres and I can't feed any of it!!!
I think if you run a search for hay you can find suppliers where you can get good quality hay. Anyway it is certainly worth a try.
Cheryl
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:26 am:
There are hay brokers, but they only look for big customers. I live in the middle of a big hay growing area, but still have a hard time finding good horse hay. Most of they hay grown here is rich alfalfa, which is cubed and shipped to Japan! You can buy local hay, but seldom from a feed store. You have to buy it from the grower. I mostly drive around and see hay in the fields that I like, then "sign up" for some of it before it is even cut. Most of the hay you see stacked and in sheds is already pre-sold. If it's not being sold to Japan, it's being shipped out to So. California.
A growing problem in this area is that all the good hay land is being sold for housing developments. I have no idea where all the new people are coming from and how they are making a living, let alone paying for their land. Hay farms that sold a few years ago for $2-3000/ac. are going for over $60,000/ac. All the farmers are selling out and retiring. Can't say as I blame them, but it makes hay hard to find and expensive!
We bought additional land several years ago and grow most of our own hay. We have a fellow who grows and bales it for us on a 50/50 split.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:35 am:
Diane, I'm near Dousman, Wisconsin. At this point, I feel like I'm willing to pay just about anything (Don't tell my husband) to know that when I crack open the third bale in a row, I won't get hit in the face with mold spores!  !!! If you want to contact me with his info, I'm at lvonasten@wi.rr.com! Thanks!
Cheryl, I totally feel your pain! Weeds and dirt (and the occasional smashed grasshopper) are all things I find too. Even my SD hay was dusty (but thankfully not moldy)....it was compressed into 60-70lb bales and made for lots of smashed haystems/alfalfa....yeesh! I've still gotta give it to that guy though, out of about 5 tons that I got from him, I never got a moldy bale. Not even one. I just can't afford to feed that year-round.
I did a quick Google search and came up with this website...https://content.fsa.usda.gov/haynet/default.asp I put an ad in and I answer one that is close to me. Check it out and see if you can find anything!
I wonder how DrO would feel about us starting a hay-finder thread? 
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 11:40 am:
Sara, we must have posted at the same time....one of my attempts at finding hay this summer was at a "hay store". They grow various types of hay, with or without alfalfa, at the higher end of pricing. It was all working out for a couple of deliveries, then again, suddenly, bales are coming moldy and smoking and weedy. I even found garbage bailed in some of those batches! I decided that for what he was charging, and what I was really actually getting....wasn't worth it in the end. Unfortunately, I'm not a "big" customer...I figure I go thru about 700 bales a year, which probably isn't much for most sellers. **sigh**
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Member:
Zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 12:26 pm:
Kim, hayfinder would be great,we live in alfalfa country also ours is 210 a ton and the quaility varies so.....at least the guy I have now delivers and stacks; his hay is c+/b but at least there were no chopped up rattlesnakes like the last guy! Thanks for web site tis a good one! Cindy
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 1:37 pm:
Kim, his hay is mostly grass, I haven't had a bad bale yet. I see you are between Madison and Milwaukee, he may deliver that far. I will e-mail you his contact info. If you would like to talk to him.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 2:00 pm:
Thanks so much Diane!! I'll be sure to contact him! (and Thanks for sharing your "good" connection too, LOL!)
Cindy, glad the site is helpful! I've found some other ones too, but they seem more like mass producers that might not be totally about quality vs. quantity! I've seen these same ads during my other searches and they sound a lot like that "hay store" I had dealings with already.
Thank you all for sharing your hay woes! I'm not happy to know we are all in the same boat, but it feels better knowing it's not just me.
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Member:
Imogen
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 3:24 pm:
Hello people I realise this could be irrelevant in USA-land, but here in Ireland all local papers have an agricultural section in their classifieds where people put for sale and wanted items like hay. Also all the specialist farming papers like the Farmer's Journal do the same. Mind you we don't have hay brokers unlike the UK and the USA...
When it's a bad year for hay... it's a bad year for hay. I always store a bit more than I need partly against a tough winter but also because even in a good year I find that there are always a good many horse owners who do not have enough storage who run out towards the end of the winter so I never have trouble selling it.
One other point you mightn't know if you don'e make hay: if hay is made from grass which got a lot of fertiliser (ie the pasture was not really suitable for horse GRAZING) then it will always be harder to save as hay and more inclined to rot. Hay is often cut too green (not stemmy /dried out enough) in these intensive farming days - the sooner it's cut the better chance of another session of grazing off the same land.
Ideally horse hay should be from land which is unfertilised or fertilised with 10:10:20 fertiliser at the most and it should be really pretty dry looking before it is cut otherwise no matter how good the weather, it will tend not to keep well in small bales particularly. This type of hay has less nutritional value but it's easier to save and easier to keep... Hay made for cattle does not have to be so palatable as that for horses so they tend to go for more fertiliser and not worry so much about how long it keeps for.
If it don't smell right, don't buy it... and whoever complained about garbage, all I can say is that I clean all our fields myself from the crap that passers by and agricultural workers leave but I still occasionally find bits of plastic in the bales. It may not be your hay broker's fault...
Lots of people here buy horse haylage (brand name Eclipse) from the farming co-op but I prefer to feed a bigger volume of hay than a smaller volume of haylage to give the poor beggars something to do (eating) during those long winter nights in the stable.
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
Scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 4:10 pm:
Kim, I also forgot to add, if you contact that hay guy request 2nd crop, I wasn't real impressed with his 1st crop it was pretty stemmy as most 1st crop is. I think he sold all of his 1st crop anyway, but I am not sure.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 8, 2006 - 5:46 pm:
Thanks Diane, I'll do that! I'll let you know how it goes!
Imogen, thanks for that info! I don't at all want to sound like I'm bashing hay growers...it's not an easy job to have and I wouldn't want it in a million years. I had my horses home with me before...about 5 years ago and about 250 miles north of where I live now. At that time, I could get the nicest hay and an occasional moldy bale was a rarity (I realize that there is gonna be a bad bale here and there; it happens). I don't recall finding weeds, garbage, smoke, or insects. When I started buying hay again down here, I assumed I'd find the same product, only more expensive due to location. The barns where I kept my horses prior to moving them home never had the smokey/moldy stuff I'm dealing with now. My husband is convinced that hay sellers are doing a "bait and switch" on us, LOL, and I don't know how else to explain it either. 2006 was a great year for hay here and that's what we're buying. We have been very careful about looking it over BEFORE we buy (AFTER the incident with the horse dealer and the heaves) and quite a few of these times, have even taken 2-4 bales home to open and feed and see what we get. It's always been the second or third delivery and then the problems start popping up. That's part of why I was wondering about hay brokers. If I could get that same hay I had up north, I'd be thrilled! I just don't know how to find someone up north and how to get it HERE
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 8:22 am:
Just a thought, sometimes the condition of the hay changes after I buy it, and I think I finally figured out why.
I have a Morton barn (insulated metal barn with a concrete floor). It stays nice and cool through summer, but can be damp because of condensation.
I find that if I order hay early, no matter what condition it arrives in, I end up with mold! So I have to wait until the barn interior and the outside temps are similar, or the barn even slightly warmer at night. Of course then I don't always get the most gorgeous hay, but at least it doesn't go bad.
One other tip--we have the big agricultural exhibits at our local fair each August. They have hay judging and you can see the displays with which farmers have the nicest hay! "Shop before you buy", as William Shatner says!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 8:25 am:
Also, If you buy from the same supplier every year, I find they will offer to replace any hay you are unsatisfied with...or am I just lucky living in the Garden State?
Surprise! We are not all freeways and factories!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:03 am:
Erika, I think this was discussed on another thread some time ago, but when you stack your hay if you put pallets under it, and then leave just a little space between each bale, your hay won't go bad from the dampness. At least it won't in our climate. Also, some people swear by sprinkling rock salt between the bales.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 10:44 am:
Erika, I actually thought about that last night...that depending on where this newest hay supplier is storing my hay, could this be causing my new problems. This is my second load from a crop of 450 bales, all cut off the same field. It was suppose to have been enough to get me thru winter, but now I'm looking at so many smoky bales, I don't know if I can use it. Unfortunately, we don't have the room to store more then 60 bales at a time at home. I suppose I could use the horse's barn , but that probably wouldn't be good for their barn air and my mare with heaves.
I did just get a call back from the guy I called off that link in my earlier post...I'm going to go check out his hay this week. I told him what I need and he says he'll do his best to find it....more on this later!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 11:05 am:
Sarah, that is a good tip, but I have always stacked on pallets. The problem is the dew falls in my barn on humid days, just like it does outside at night. You can walk in on a humid day and see actually see fog in there! It helps to keep it closed during the day, then open at night. The horses like it because it is always nice and cool in there in summer, but not so good for hay storage until fall--not to mention leather tack!!
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Member:
Cbuck894
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 2:47 pm:
We came from Nebraska, between Omaha and Lincoln. There is usually plenty of alfalfa as well as prairie and brome available in this area and it is excellent quality most years. You would need to be able to take an entire semi load for it to be economically feasible unless you live close enough to pick it up yourself, but possibly you could split it with other local horse owners. We still go back home to buy all of our alfalfa and grass hay because there is nothing comparable in quality in our area that we can afford!
The supply does go fast so the best idea is to speak for the quantity you need early. Try doing a search for alfalfa and Nebraska at the same time. I have had good luck with that in the past when our normal supplier had a bad year.
Carol
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Member:
Jgordo03
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 3:58 pm:
Erika,
I live in a high humidity area also. When I build my barn I had openings put on all four sides. In the summer I open all the doors and windows for ventilation. I've never had condensation build up or sweating in my metal building. I have never had any problems with wet or moldy hay.
Judi
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New Member:
Leseb1
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 7:47 pm:
Anyone from Arizona want to tell how much we pay per bale? And we were once know as the "Hay Capitol" in the not too distant past. Now we grow homes in our fields. I would be jumping for joy at $8/bale and rolling ecstatically on the ground for $5/bale.
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 8:32 pm:
Yeah me too!... 16.95 a bale of what they call polo hay down here. and just as i was getting used to the price? they stopped carrying it for the off season.
i get so many different kinds of hay down here its not even funny. and a price list to boot. But it all starts at 10.95 and up. but no shortage as far as i can tell. just really expensive.
A friend just moved to missouri and said she was in hay heaven out there. Not sure where she is living now...
did you check out
https://www.haybarn.com/
that might put you in touch with someone in your area.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Oct 9, 2006 - 9:20 pm:
Thanks for that link jojo!!
I feel really terrible for complaining about paying $3.75 a bale....Geez. Who knows, it could happen here too...fields are being bought for housing all over around here (and I totally agree, I don't have a CLUE where all these people are coming from!). I heard from a horsie neighbor that they are building a subdivision in the corn field right behind our houses.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 7:04 am:
Erika, your description suggests that on warm humid days the air and barn surfaces inside the barn are significantly cooler than the outside air and this is what results in condensation. You need to increase ventilation rather than close up to keep this from happening. If you still get condensation you should add forced ventilation like large exhaust fans.
DrO
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 8:35 am:
Yep, that's what happens. Funny, because this used to be a veal barn (awful, I know--not mine) and when we bought it there were no windows and only one overhead garage-type door.
There were huge heaters and exhaust fans, though. Neighbors said it was a horror in there when it was full of calves! Barn is 50'x90'.
We put large barn doors on each end, and dutch-type stall doors down one side. Windows for light, but they don't open.
I am working on the husband to get more operative windows put in there.
The ag fans haven't been turned on in twenty years. They created hurricane force winds and were LOUD!
I do set up fans in there in summer for the horses. But I guess it isn't the best for hay storage. Works okay if I get it late in the season, though.
Thanks for the tips.
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Member:
Terrilyn
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 10, 2006 - 11:00 am:
Kim--
Here is one more link that I've used and had good luck with in the past. Happy hunting.
https://www.hayexchange.com/
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 12:51 am:
Erika: Is the ceiling insulated? We were worried about that very thing (since we cut our own hay),when we put up our barn in 2005. We were told if the roof was insulated, it wouldn't form condensation and drip. It doesn't. No matter how wet, or how drastic the temperature changes have been, the ceiling remains dry....and so does the hay! Remember, we're in Jersey too! The AM dew might as well be a heavy rain.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 11, 2006 - 8:30 am:
Yes, Lee, it is. It has an attic space, too. I should get down there and take some pictures--maybe in another thread. I hate to continue to hijack Kim's thread.
Someone told me that it is because the concrete floor is so thick that it takes so long to change with the weather. Don't know why it would take any longer than the ground, though...
It isn't a terrible problem, though. Like I said, if I get my hay late in the summer it's fine.
And my horses like it cool in the summer, warm in the winter. My stalls are open so they can come and go when they want.
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Member:
Muffi
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 15, 2006 - 10:59 pm:
Geese you guys don't know how lucky you have it.
I live in Northern New Mexico now (Pecos area) and hay - 50 - 65 pound bales are $10.50 and you have to pick it up your self. I go thru a bale a day with just TWO HORSES! Ok one is big but the other is small to make up for it. and we have a shortage here now. My barn can only hold about 100 bales and I just hope we can find some stuff this spring! I miss the old Arizona Bermuda days. at $9 bucks a 100 pound bale!!! and it would last 2 to 3 days!
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Member:
Srobert
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Posted on Monday, Oct 16, 2006 - 8:25 am:
Okay, now I"m feeling really guilty. I used to live in Wisconsin and was lucky to trade field space for hay - never had to pay. When we moved to Western Pennsylvania I actually had to BUY hay - Terrible! This year, I was mad that my usual hay supplier upped his bale price to $2.25 so found someone else. Now I pay $1.50 per bale -great horse hay - nice and grassy - haven't found a bad bale since I bought it in July. I did have to pick it up myself but I can feed 3 horses for about $2.00 per day. I guess I'll stop complaining!!!
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Member:
Jgordo03
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Posted on Monday, Oct 16, 2006 - 12:31 pm:
Okay, so I feel bad also. We have a forty acre pure brome field of our own, and two twenty acre fields we bale on shares. Because of DrOught this year we have kept it all. Everyone needs to remember that the price of Gasoline/Diesel fuel was at an all time high. So remember for every bale of hay you first have to cut the hay, rake the hay, then bale the hay. That is three passes, and if it’s going to rain, sometimes you have to rake twice to get it to dry before it gets wet. Then there is the cost of equipment. Trust me I know about the $8,000.00 tractor/baler payments every four months, the insurance, etc. etc. But I think anything over $5.00 a 70lb. bale is highway robbery and then only if the hay has had to be trucked in delivered and stacked in your barn.
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Member:
Tuckern
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 - 11:33 am:
I live in Northwest New Mexico (Farmington area), and had to go into Colorado to find the last 100 bales that I'll need to get me through til next October. I was able to get half of my supply locally for $6.50 a 40-50lb bale. The stuff I got in Colorado was $5.50 a 60lb bale, but with the fuel cost to go up there, I figured it turned out to be about $6.00 a bale.
It doesn't help either the two farmers I buy from lost most of their first cut to rain. And, on top of that, arson destroyed about 1100 bales at a feed store. Hay is a precious thing in this area right now, and the prices will only get higher as the weather gets colder.
Nicole
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 17, 2006 - 2:47 pm:
I am amazed at the differences in hay prices in the country and the lengths some of you have to go thru to get it!! I'll count myself among the fortunate, even though I'm dealing with this mold problem.
I also wanted to update everyone on my original problem. We of course called our hay supplier to discuss this problem (I had already ordered 450 bales to get me thru winter) and what we could do about it. I was very pleasantly surprised that he said "No problem"! When this has happened in the past and I've called people on it, I've been called the "B" word and also "stupid". Most of the other suppliers shrugged and said "Sorry, no refunds". We told him we'd try again and he went and personally pulled out 40 bales for us (for the month) and threw in 10 alfalfa bales free (the cows, I mean horses, don't really need alfalfa, but free is free!). He said he'll accomodate us and never hesitate to let him know. I'm pretty speechless and so far, the hay we picked up on Friday has been awesome (**crosses fingers**)
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Member:
Mwebster
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 22, 2006 - 7:41 pm:
I live in Massachusetts, and we get most of our hay from NY state. We have paid from $275-350/ton, depending who we bought from (and perhaps whether they stack or you help, etc.)
It's so hard to assess price by bale, since the bales we've bought range from smaller, lighter bales to heavy bales that are very compressed and much longer. I'm sure some of our bales are 40 pounds, others are 60.
We only buy timothy/plain grass hay (we have 3 easy keepers), we avoid clover or alfalfa. So that may also be a factor.
So, bottom line, I'm not so sure $6/bale is highway robbery, if it's a good sized bale and is "good stuff". On that front: we try to buy very good quality, green leafy stuff, and the horses are still quite excited to get last year's hay, despite the fact they're on grass paddocks (short, but no bare spots). We're getting this year's hay tested (first time we do this), 3 different deliveries, so we'll know better from here on out whether it's as nutritious as it is pallatable.
Anyhow, we're in hay country, and $6/bale doesn't seem exorbitant to me -- as long as it's good stuff (leafy, green, good quality).
Melissa
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Member:
Stevens
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 3:00 pm:
$6 a bale; I can only dream.
In So Cal I'm paying $12 per bale for 100 bale bermuda.
Chris
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2007 - 9:08 pm:
I have a funny update....I ended up sticking with my same hay supplier...he made good on anything I asked and has been a joy to deal with. We finally got first cutting for this year...it looks awesome, smells even better, and guess what? They leave it until they're done with the old stuff. I can't believe they prefer 10 month old hay to the freshest, best smelling hay I've seen since last year.
Of course my mind immediately goes to "there must be something totally wrong with it!!" but if there is, I can't see it/smell it/feel it. And they DO eat it, but not until the old stuff is gone and then they "pick". I just don't get them! The only thing I can figure is that the old stuff had spots of alfalfa and this stuff doesn't; otherwise it's very similar, even same stemminess. How picky can you be???
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2007 - 10:00 pm:
Kim , if there is ONLY ONE leaf of alfalfa in the flakes of hay fed... Mine will find that first before tackling the rest of the hay.. they are characters..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. .
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Friday, Jun 29, 2007 - 10:23 pm:
Ann, I'm starting to believe they do this stuff just to see how far they can push me....who's got the stronger will??? They do!!! 
It's only been a week, so I'll let them continue to get used to it (and get used to no alfalfa) and hope for the best...I'd hate to wait for second cutting, which they might like more. But this stuff is so nice, I can't imagine 2nd cutting will be a whole lot better.
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