written and moderated by an equine veterinarian."> ">
This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Fat or Obese Horse Nutrition »
  Discussion on Help with diet :-)
Author Message
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 11:11 am:

Hi Dr. O, I would love some opinions of my horse and his diet. I do realize that by not being able to see the horse in person, you can simply give suggestions, and I would appreciate those. Thank you.

This is a repost from another thread:

Hi Dr. O, my horses' ideal weight is 1044.9, that means he still needs to lose 116.10 pounds. So I should be feeding him 15.68 pounds of hay per day, not the 8 pounds of hay I'm feeding him now. He does get two pounds of grass hay pellets in his pasture pal, so that would be 10 pounds total per day.

I completely realize that this is a general guideline and that all horses are different, but I was wondering that (seeing as how my horses' exercise is STILL not able to be consistent) what your suggestion would be for me and my boy. I've updated his diet in my profile.

As of right now, he only eats about 2 hours a day, nothing in pasture for him to nibble on.

His looks are deceiving...He has fat on his tailhead, behind the shoulders, can't feel his ribs (well, except the fat between his ribs ) Depending on how he stands, he has a dip where his spine is...

With his feet and djd/arthritis issues, vet wants him at no more than a 5... I just don't know how to feed him anymore... I'm tired of feeding him like a pony.

I brought him out tonight to walk him and he was good to a point, checked him for heat and he has a lot of heat (no swelling) right hind just below the stifle and on the left hind same spot but not as bad... this morning most of the heat was gone on the right, and no heat at all on the left... so I still hesitate to *really* exercise him. Walking is all I am comfortable doing with him at this point.

Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Oct 19, 2006 - 11:17 am:

One other note, last night during our walk, another horse walked by and my horse became 19 hands tall, tail straight up, but stood stock still at complete and utter attention, he didn’t look overweight then, I wish I had my camara with me...

Could this possibly be just muscle wastage? With me feeding him so little he is losing more muscle?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 2:59 pm:

Hello Aileen,
What would you rate his condition as right now? In general to increase the amount of time he can "graze" I would substitute for the pellets a much stemmier (read less nutritional) hay so that he can have more time chewing. He will get a bigger belly but we need to watch the fat coverage over the dorsum.
DrO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 4:19 pm:

Thank you Dr. O,

I would rate him a 6.5 I think...

6... A slight crease is along the back. Fat on the tailhead feels soft. Fat over the ribs is spongy. Small deposits of fat along the withers, behind the shoulders and along the neck.

7 Fleshy Ribs may be felt but fat between ribs is obvious.

His crest is soft so that's good at least...

One of the reasons I bought the pasture pal was to do just that, extend his chewing time...The pellets are put in his "pasture pal" he needs to spin the barrel in order to get the pellets. Takes him about 30 minutes to eat 1 pound (6 cups). Should I still reduce the pellets?

It was suggested that I try bedding him in straw instead of shavings...he will eat the straw tho, is this something that is an option?

On a great note, I finally found someone that will walk him for me during the day four times a week, I will walk/a little trot (depending on how he feels) when I get home from work, so he will get "worked" twice a day 6 times a week (15 minutes at a time for now).

The other good news is that Saturday he offered to trot (only to the left) for 10 whole minutes!!! I saw him start to sweat (read your article :-)) and then walked his bad way for 5 minutes then called it a day.

I must admit that I did increase his hay by 1-2 pounds the last five days. I have to wonder if the reason he doesn't move around much is because I'm feeding him so little he just doesn't have the energy.

Accupuncturist is coming out Thursday, Fall shots, teeth and lameness exam on Saturday, masseuse on Sunday.

Any other recommendations I can run by my vet?

Thanks so much!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 6:05 am:

If you want to reduce his condition further you must further cut calories and straw is the ultimate in stemmy hay.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 7:26 am:

Dr.O. does straw make them more prone to impaction colic? Last year when we had a calf next to the horses, they would reach under the gates and eat all the straw they could grab. One horse coliced, and she had never coliced before.

I had considered straw for my easy keepers, but this scared me. Thanks
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 10:31 am:

Thanks Dr. O, he is losing weight, I taped him last night and he was below the 1158 mark, if I squeezed the tape as tight as I could, I got to 1128..I haven't been able to get that far in quite a while.

This after I increased his hay, and granted, worked him twice a day on Saturday and Monday, but I'm still wondering if he hasn't lost weight because I fed him so little.

I'm going to give him a couple of weeks to see if this continues. If it doesn't I'll revert to his minimal diet and bed with straw. Thanks Dr. O!!

Diane, my boy is eating shavings, I think. He gets about 4 bales of shavings per week and I would say he eats about 1 bale's worth per week... after the one post here about the horse eating shavings, I think that I will try straw and see what happens.

I'm wondering if when I switch the bedding, I should do it slowly? Any input appreciated...thank you.

My horse hasn't colicked since I put him on ulcer medication, so if he does, I'll be sure to post.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 11:14 am:

It may increase the chance slightly Diane but this is in contrast to the known mental issues of horses left without food to graze on for long periods, I would always opt for the straw and be sure there is clean water available.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 4:18 pm:

lol Aileen maybe that's why he's gaining weight. A bag of shavings weighs quite a bit. A lot of fiber tho. Sorry I couldn't resist
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 1:15 pm:

Could be Diane, could be :-) Since I've been feeding him more, his shavings are still "intact" not "dust" ... and I as watched him last night running around like a wild pony(something he hasn't done in quite a while)...he looked GREAT, happy, mischievous and bright ... made me smile because I saw no evidence of lameness or even ouchiness :-) Once again, I need to remember to be patient...
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 2:39 pm:

That's great Aileen, I hope he continues to recover. Nothing better than to see the horses running and sound!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 10:46 am:

Thought I would update (saw Diane's update :-) )

He's been getting 10 pounds (up from 7 pounds of orchard hay) of timothy hay for almost a month now.

He hasn't gained any weight, and has more energy to work. He's now trotting 15-20 minutes at a time, whereas before he was unable to keep a trot for more than 3 times around the arena.






Member:
Scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 1:12 pm:

Aileen I wonder if timothy hay has less calories then orchard? Did you put straw in for his bedding yet? I'm sure the increased exercise is helping also, maybe we will get this fat horse nutrition thing figured out yet!
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 1:35 pm:

Diane, I don't know if timothy has less calories, but I think it has less protein... don't know if that makes a difference, Dr. O?

No straw yet, he is no longer eating his shavings, so we'll see how it goes. If it gets to the point where I can't exercise him, I will go to straw.

Here's to hoping we can continue to exercise our boys. I do have a pretty good arena, so as long as we don't have the 40 days and 40 nights of rain like we did last year, we should be ok :-)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 4:42 pm:

You will find the calorie content of most forages for horses in Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Feeds, & Feeding » Forages for Horses, an Overview.
DrO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:10 pm:

Thank you Dr. O, it looked like orchard and timothy were in the same category as far as calories? I'll read it more in depth tomorrow.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:21 pm:

I was always told that timothy was higher in protein and calories.. a richer grass then orchard.. ???

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:58 pm:

That is untrue Ann, the tables in the article referenced above accurately reflect nutrient levels and the article discusses judging hay nutrient quality and particular features of commonly available hay and legume types.
DrO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 8:00 pm:

Then it must just be the quality of the hay. The timothy he's eating now looks more like straw, but some green, very sweet, all the horses want it. I just bought a ton of second cutting timothy that looks just luscious, very green and soft. I will be careful feeding it, because it sounds like that will be what does him in. Luckily I still have 5 or 6 bales of the "straw" timothy. Hopefully in 6 weeks, I'll be able to feed him the "luscious" timothy without him gaining weight.

Thanks Ann and Dr. O :-)
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jun 2, 2007 - 10:06 pm:

Well, we were doing pretty good weight wise! But the vet wants me to wean him off the Quiessence to check his magnesium level in July. I've just cut him back and he has absolutely ballooned! Fat pockets everywhere and back up to 1190 pounds.

I've ordered some chromium from platinum performance to see if that will help, but I sort of doubt it.... so I thought instead of giving him the LMF Super Supplement, I would go to the LMF Stage One (no grain/molasses,etc) BUT I would have to feed him 5-10 pounds per DAY for him to get his "needed" nutrients. Not going to do that, so now my question is where will he get his vitamins? Do I need to worry about this right now?

My thought is to do 1/2 pound of the Super Supplement am/pm, and 1/2 pound of the Stage 1 am/pm for a week, then cut him off the Super Supplement.

Another thought, instead of his grass hay pellets - which do have a tiny bit of molasses in them to keep the hay together - in the pasture pal, I could put the Stage one in there and he'd get about 4 pounds a day.... the Stage one has 5.9% fat but low carb, the Super Supplement has 3% fat.

Thank for any input!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jun 2, 2007 - 10:42 pm:

Hi Aileen, I was thinking of posting the same thing. My vet said to basically starve Hank. While I know that is not a wise thing to do, it seems the only way to get the weight off him. Hank is 15hh and probably weighs around 1200#. He is to get 1% of his body weight in feed "stemmy hay" so he is going to get 10#'s of hay and about 1/2 pound of light balance pellets + his supps. and absolutely no grass until he is a 4-5 bsc. Vet said at this point not to be to concerned about nutrition it is more important to get the weight off. He too has fat pads and a cresty neck.

I started this morning and tonight his crest is already reduced and he is walking better. Hank doesn't react to hoof testers anymore and his heat and pulse have been gone for awhile, yet he remains sore footed, I suppose the extra weight on already stressed feet is enough to do it. For Hank anyway I am going to put nutrition to the wayside for now, he does get a vitamin/hoof supp. After all he isn't doing anything other than standing around, so he shouldn't need too much
Member:
corinne

Posted on Saturday, Jun 2, 2007 - 11:08 pm:

Well I wish you luck with your overweight guys. My horse has lost about 50 lbs in the last few weeks since we went to night turnout for the summer as his good quality forage is in his stall during the day and he seems to be sleeping during the day when he should be eating. You can lead a horse to food but you can't make him eat? He has the best quality forage available at all times, plus grain, beet pulp and now after reading all the nutrition articles a fat supplement. Hope that helps! How about I wish a little of my problem on you all and you wish a little of yours on me and we might end of up with horses that weigh what we need them too. Good luck Aileen and Diane!
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 12:29 am:

Corrine... I wish I could send you 50 pounds federal express tomorrow :-) I hope your boy feels better soon!

Diane, do any of your feed stores test for NSC's in the hay? Not one feed store up here does! AND I just read that you can't depend on "strawy" looking hay... frustrated!

What kind of hay are you feeding? I'm thinking I'm going to try some meadow grass, even though he's not too keen on the timothy he's getting... but maybe that's a good thing and I should just keep feeding it?

He LOVES the new supplement... just a note, above I said he'd get 1/2 pound of each... I meant half a CUP...
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 6:52 am:

Aileen, we can send ours away, but no feed store tests it. The hay I have left is not very good, I know that doesn't mean anything as far as nsc's but I figure if they don't like it it probably is low in sugar. The other option is soaking it if you think yours is high.

I have 200#'s to spare for you Corrine...if you pay shipping.
Member:
oscarvv

Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 8:49 am:

My guy is also an easy keeper and keeping his weight down is a battle. I slowly switched him to Triple Crown Low starch forage.
Even if horses are not active they still have basic requirements for vitamins and minerals. I offer free choice supplements from ABC. I really like the company and what they have to offer. Though shipping does make it pricey.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Sunday, Jun 3, 2007 - 10:07 am:

Thanks Diane, I completely forgot about soaking the hay as an option!

Barbara, are these cubes of hay? That IS a thought! I'll look online, thank you :-)
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 6:31 am:

Aileen for answers to your vitamin question see, Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Vitamins an Overview. The benefits of magnesium and chromium for weight, fat, and blood sugar control remain highly conjectural, there is some positive research on chromium and insulin resistance but the actual benefit appears hard to measure in rear life. Weight control always comes down to the balance of calories going in and going out.
DrO
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 10:22 am:

Thanks Dr. O, I should have looked at more of your articles :-) I think I'll just give him a Vitamin E supplement for now. If the chromium helps him I'll keep it too.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 12:22 pm:

Just wanted to add that I do realize about the calories going in/out... my vet says I'm in between a rock and a hard place... as it is, he's just barely getting 1%... hopefully walking him will help.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 27, 2007 - 6:16 pm:

Hi Dr. O and all, Brave is down to 1140, but not without eating a bale of shavings a week. I've purchased some wheat straw and put a flake in the stall, he ate it for about 15 minutes before looking for something else to eat, now he is back out in pasture.

My question is, can I just change/add the straw to his bedding or should I just put a flake in there daily for him to be able to munch on the straw instead of the shavings? I've never bedded with straw before. I can actually feel his ribs now, but he does need to lose some more weight. Thank you :-)
Member:
dres

Posted on Friday, Jul 27, 2007 - 7:42 pm:

Aileen, can you leave him out in the pasture 24/7 now.. ? If you pasture is like mine,they are all dried out and just straw like too.. ?

On your question , when i boarded the B-O would bed with two flakes of wheat straw... All the horses ate their bedding , and were very smelly from laying in their poop..
I bed very sparcely.. the tight A** that i can be, so in my stalls i have just a 'wet' spot that gets bedding... all horses are trained to pee in that spot only..
Just a thought..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. .
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jul 27, 2007 - 8:12 pm:

Hi Aileen, I am taking the bedding away like Ann also, except for the peehole. They don't need it anymore since Hank is sound and they can sleep outside. Can Brave sleep outside as Ann suggested? I electric taped off a big enough area for them to sleep and move around some with a little grazing, they still have access to the lean to, but without the shavings they sleep outside. If that isn't possible I would think offering him the leaf of straw is a good idea. Congrats on his weight loss!! Hank still has about 75#s to go. Are you riding Brave more now? Good Luck
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 27, 2007 - 8:18 pm:

Thanks Ann... He is out 24/7, just not in the larger area which he has eaten down to dirt. He has a 50 x 70 attached to his stall 24/7. He'll eat the shavings even when allowed full access to his 3/4 acre turnout (daytime).

I could lock him out, but then logistics strike since I work full time, I already wake at 4:20 a.m. to clean/feed etc. It's quicker if I can just feed in the barn. He also just loves his stall and fan when it's hot out.

He doesn't soil his bedding, so that's a non issue, thank goodness. I know one person that would fill the stall with straw - nice thick bed -that's what I was envisioning, but her horse wasn't on a diet... His joints do need cushion to lay down.

Since your bo gave two flakes a night, maybe I will start with one flake per day and see if he gains weight, then go from there.

Thanks!
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Friday, Jul 27, 2007 - 8:27 pm:

Thanks Diane, Trainer is still riding him, I start next month. Since I can't get any goofiness out of him (lunging, etc.), I wanted her to do the first month to save my bum :-) He's being ridden/walked 40 minutes a day on pavement (with boots on) to encourage hoof growth, get a bit of exercise, and to gain a little muscle (gently sloped hills) before I get my uncoordinated self back on him :-)
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jul 28, 2007 - 10:15 am:

He didn't finish off the straw last night, so I think I may be on to something.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jul 28, 2007 - 12:01 pm:

Aileen did he leave the shavings alone then? or to early to tell.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Saturday, Jul 28, 2007 - 12:22 pm:

I think so, I did see him start to nibble on shavings this morning, but then he went for the straw instead. One flake, I think it was maybe 2 pounds or so will hopefully last 24 hours, there's still a little less than half left.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC