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  Discussion on Turning a horse out in summer?
Author Message
New Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 2:59 pm:

Hi,

I lease my horse out to my cousin who lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere! She wants to turn my horse out over summer for approximately a month totally naked eg, no shoes/cover no feeds nothing. She thinks it will be best if she has no contact with him and puts him in a paddock where he can't even see his paddock buddy. I think this may not have the desired result of giving him a nice little holiday.

I disagree with turning him out with no cover as the flys/sun will agitate him and with no shoes. Being a TB he has bad hooves they crack easily and chip though through good management and supplimenting his feed they are a lot better than they used to be. When are the ideal times to turn a horse out?
Member:
Shirl

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:07 pm:

Kathleen,
What in the world would be the purpose of having him so isolated from even his horse friend? To me that's cruel and serves no purpose.
Shirl
New Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:14 pm:

Hi Shirley,
Thank you
I agree with you, though both horses at the moment have been separated to opposite ends of the paddock due to them both going nuts when 1 of them is taken away to be ridden etc I think if hes turned out he should be put in a paddock where he can still see the farm house and his buddy, albeit it may be still a distance away.
New Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:51 pm:

I just have to add that the reason my cousin is wanting to turn my horse out for a month as she needs to train her stock horse and will then swap them around and turn her horse out.
Member:
Canter

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 3:59 pm:

I'd be worried about the no contact with your cousin...is someone going to check on the horse to make sure he's OK? What about water and food. Does he have any type of shelter? I'd be VERY uneasy with this arrangement, to say the least.
New Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 4:25 pm:

Hi Fran,

yes I am uneasy about this, my cousin seems to think no contact is best as its giving him a complete holiday by him not seeing her. She would like to put him in a huge hilly paddock with trees/trough etc but no hard feed what so ever.

I would prefer if she turns him out for a month, that he has his cover/shoes on in a paddock he can still see the farm house and his buddy and to be checked every 2nd day with still a small amount of hard feed being given when she checks him? is this more acceptable? Does this cover the basics for him eg. comfort and health?
Member:
Tuckern

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 5:28 pm:

Hi Kathleen,

Will your horse have access to shade in any form, such as a tree, or shelter of some sort? My horses live in a dry paddock, and I don't put fly sheets on them because (1) they'd just tear them up anyway and (2) I'm not around all the time to make sure they don't get them caught on something and get trapped. I do use fly masks for their faces though. And although they do have access to a man-made shelter, 9 times out of 10, they'll choose to stand under a tree instead.

Is the horse currently barefoot? If not, I, too, wouldn't think it wise to pull shoes if he isn't going to have some sort of "observation period" to make sure he does okay without shoes.

Just my thoughts,
Nicole
New Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 6:03 pm:

Thanks for your thoughts Nicole,

yes he will have shade/trees in the paddock. He's never in the 5 years i've known/owned him had his shoes off.
My main concern is im going to be away overseas for 5 weeks over the time my cousin wants to turn him out and I want to make sure I have covered every base then I can advise my cousin that yes turn him out but please lets do it the correct way(I've never turned a horse out before) then I can be happy knowing that he's comfortable and there should be minimal problems.
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 6:19 pm:

Sounds to me like your cousin needs to get her basic training down with both horses first. Yes, horses don't like it when another is taken away to be ridden, but if trained correctly, the horse being ridden will work and the horse being left behind will get over it. They will learn that they will be back together later. Separating them just affirms their original fear that they are being left. To punish both horses because they are just being horses is just plain wrong IMO. Now if she is talking about turning the one out in a large pasture with trees and plenty of water and grass, that probably is not a bad thing, but horses are herd animals and being alone without being able to see another horse or human is not necessarily as much of a 'vacation' to them as it is for the person. And if the horse need shoes, he needs shoes. This just seems like common sense stuff. If I turned any of my horses out by themselves without access to at least see each other, they would not like it and it would not be fair to them. I have a connection to one of them and she would be very upset to be isolated and have me ignore her. Not all horses develop that connection with humans, but they do with other horses. Surely, there is some way to get through to your cousin that she needs to rethink this. The fact that she keeps them so far apart all the time is part of her problem IMO.
Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 6:52 pm:

that's a good point of view thanks regarding being completely separated for a month is more of a 'human vacation'and not the horsey one topaz would probably enjoy.

He has to be separated from the other horse, it was just getting too dangerous to have them together, they were breaking/snapping big hitching posts etc to follow each other if one was being groomed in the same paddock and the other went for a drink, it was ridiculous. Even having them tied up either side of a horse float was too much and they broke free (luckily we use bayling twine.)Any advice you can give regarding separation would be greatly appreciated!

Also

What is the ideal situation/conditions I can help my cousin create to turn topaz out in? There is plenty of flat paddocks (not much shade though) around the farm house and some hilly/shaded ones not to far away all with access to water, what else can I do to ensure topaz will be fine and happy?
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 7:27 pm:

Since your cousin doesn't have time to work on the issue of separation (it can be done, but takes time and dedication to the issue and a lot of natural horsemanship ideas), then I don't know if I can be of any help in that direction. All it would take is when one horse leaves, first of all don't have the other horse tied. Be ready to immediately give him job to do that makes it harder for him to pay attention to the other horse than to you. Reward him each time he pays attention to you by taking the pressure off and put pressure back on when his attention goes elsewhere. Sounds simple, takes lots of patience and time. Like some people say it takes less time to do it right than it does to keep doing it wrong again and again. About the issue of turning him out for a month. Make a list of the minimum care you will accept.

1. He must have at least sight of another horse.
2. He must be checked on daily if only from a distance.
3. He must be check for injury, preferably daily.
4. He must have shelter of some kind - building, trees, whatever you are comfortable with.
5. He must have his shoes removed and then be watched closely for a period of time before deciding if he can go without shoes.
6. He must have enough to eat. If he is acclimated to fresh pasture and can live on grass alone, then that is acceptable. If you don't know the answer to that, then he needs to be watched to be sure he is getting enough.
7. He must have fresh water at all times. If there is a stream (not a seasonal creek like we have in Texas - that means it has water when it rains), then that probably does not need to be checked daily.

These are just suggestions, you know your horse and what he needs. These would be minimum for me. There would probably be more for me, but you must decide what your horse can live with. Is there a chance that there is another horse that can be turned out with him. That would solve a big problem and he might consider it a vacation then. Just some suggestions.
Kathleen
Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 8:00 pm:

Thanks for that Kathleen,

I completely agree with the patience thing,I've always been patient and gentle with horses you can never ask a horse to nicely to do something. I go down every 2 months to check on him(hes a 6hr drive away) and try to teach my cousin a new technique each time in handling, in saying that topaz is well looked after and seems to get along fine with her. Thanks for the list, I would agree with all those points, though i do have to keep in mind that it's my cousin looking after him not me,(unfortunately) and a few things may have to be modified to work in with her and her lifestyle.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Monday, Oct 23, 2006 - 10:33 pm:

For what it's worth, I totally agree with Kathleen Wheat. If your horse doesn't have his buddy with him, he should at least have another horse, a cow, a goat...something. And, ditto to the suggestions regarding shoes, water, etc.
Member:
Canter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 8:00 am:

Kathllen W. made a very good check list for your cousin to follow. I'd approach her with that list in hand (and anything else you might want to add) and have an open and honest discussion with her. If she's not prepared to follow your recommendations (are you paying her to keep your horse?), then I'd either find another place or I'd make her sign a contract on how she is going to replace him, or pay vet bill, should anything happen to him. I know that a beloved animal can't be replaced in your heart, but if she has some sort of financial stake in this, she may make a point of keeping a closer eye on him.
Member:
Banthony

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 9:25 am:

Kathleen, it is always a problem when two people have a different point of view on horse care and horse happiness. Horses are herd animals and tend to feel insecure by themselves.

Before I bought my thoroughbred he was leased out to someone else. When the owner went to check on him after a month she didn't recognize him and only knew it was her horse because he was the only bay there. He had been turned out without shoes and fed sparingly. His feet were so chipped he was sore on all 4 and he was pitifully thin. The guy that leased him didn't see a problem. It's all in your point of view.

I am very skeptical of horses not being checked up close daily. One barn where I boarded my horse the owner only fed and checked the back pastures in the mornings. One weekend morning she found one of the horses with a piece of broken fence board stuck in his side. It had been there since sometime the previous day the vet guessed. The poor horse had to be put down.

Good luck on your situation.
Member:
Maggienm

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 9:51 am:

Personally I would be very uncomfortable with such isolation for my horse. The idea that it might 'teach' him to accept being ridden alone is false. That takes training.
It may have the opposite effect,imho.

Kathleens list is quite good.
The only thing I might add is if this horse is used to daily riding and hard food take a week to wean him from both.
Honestly, I don't see what advantage there is to the horse to put him in an isolated pasture for a month off; or leave him in his paddock, where he can see activity and be seen daily. Time off from work is time off.
Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 2:36 pm:

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and advice, I talked to my cousin last night and we agreed she is going to put him in a paddock across the road from the house(and other horse).

This paddock has trees so I advised he could go without a cover but I've stated I want his shoes left on, (he acts like he's walking on glass the few times he's had a shoe off)

In reply to Fran I don't pay for her to look after him, but we did sign a contract when he went down stating who pays for what and vet's bills are 50/50. He is also insured against injury and illness. Im going down for 1 more visit in 3 weeks before I go overseas and im confident thanks to everyone's advice, that topaz will have a nice relaxing sun drenched month off with no issues!
Member:
Savage

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 3:44 pm:

Kathleen, will the paddock across the road allow for full viewing of your horse from the house if he pulls a shoe and goes lame or hurts himself etc.?

Sorry for the added questions, I am not comfortable with the situation and hope that things work out ok for your baby. :-)
Member:
Topaz121

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 3:55 pm:

Hi Linda,


Thank you for your concern,
yes the paddock across the road is in full view of the house, plus as its across the road and traffic going up and down will have full view of him so if something does happen to him the alarm can be raised. From the advice I've received I won't be letting my cousin put him any further away than that!
Member:
Savage

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 6:00 pm:

Kathleen, great! that is so good know :-)
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