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  Discussion on Need More Fiber? More Protein?
Author Message
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 8:41 am:

DrO,

I've been reading the discussions on poor quality hay,and the overview of nutrition. A question that concerns me is: are my horses getting enough fiber?

What I have is hay that is mostly grass, about a third of each bale is brown grass which is last summers grass that wasn't baled. So it has no nutritional value after being froze last winter. But does it have any fiber value?

I have some that is better quality, with no brown, and some alfalfa...maybe 20% alfalfa. I'd say I have half "brown mixed" half "better" bales.

My horses are healthy to a tad over padded right now. I've upped their grain, and give them EquiShine, a vitamin and mineral supplement.

They are getting a 12% protein pellet feed, with a 14% sweet mixture that is higher fat. I mix the 2, 3:1. (they gag on staight pellets, and get hyper on straight sweet feed)

Anything I need to add?

I know nothing about alfalfa cubes/pellets except they are higher protein. Does alfalfa cubes or pellets add roughage also?

Thanks for easing my mind before the weather gets much colder!

Angie
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 7:52 pm:

Hello Angie,
Freezing does not reduce fiber content.Otherwise the way nutrition of hay is effected with time and abuse is explained in the article as is how you should supplement such hay. Read the areas in the overview article on forages and practical considerations. Also are discussions on cubing and pellets, though you may have to follow the link to the forage article, I am uncertain.

If they are overweight why have you increased their concentrate Angie?
DrO
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Oct 27, 2006 - 7:50 am:

O.K., sounds like I've got it covered for protein, (protein could be higher, I missed that) vitamins & minerals with the concentrate and vitamin supplement, based on the article. And fiber, based on your advice regarding the "frozen grass".

These are 4 adult horses, ranging in weight from 1000 to 1500 pounds. The maximum amount of concentrate anyone gets is only 2-13 oz cans. Sorry I wasn't more specific on that.

Weird, but mustangs must eat brown grass all winter, don't they? That keeps popping into my head, as everyone around here is in a panic over this summers dry/brown not-so-good hay crop. Many farmers lost their alfalfa crop last winter, so that's hard to come by also.

I am not sure they are overweight, but I am sure that I want them to stay the way they are over winter. No "oh, oh, it's January, and _____ looks thin now."
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 27, 2006 - 6:39 pm:

Angie, horses in the wild die off during the winter due to malnutrition especially the older and infirm. I hope we are not talking here about what does it take to keep a horse alive, we are discussing what does it take for them to thrive.
DrO
Member:
Ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 10:45 am:

Of course we are talking about "thriving". Keeping my little herd sleek and shiny. I wasn't aware that horses in the wild died off from malnutrition I thought it was just from the cold and if they couldn't get any grass through the snow, thus slowly starving to death.

I've had the misfortune of caring for horses as a teen that lived a whole winter on just straw bales. And there wasn't enough of that even to go around. Those horses looked and acted pretty sad come spring.

Thanks for the insight.
New Member:
Kbr1

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 11:09 am:

Sorry, not sure if this is the appropraite place to put this. But I do have some concerns about feeding hay. I have a horse that choked about 2 and 1/2 weeks ago on an alfalfa cube, she have green slime coming out of her nose but she remained calm. I stayed with her for an hour and she seemed much better. Then this tuesday she choked again (she was getting pelleted feed and soaked shredded beet pulp). I was not home and my husband called the vet. He tubed and flushed her and said to give nothing that night, and see if she would eat some bran mash in the morning. He also put he on 25 cc's pen. twice a day.
Well in the morning she would not each the barn mash but did go out and graze.
I was unable to give her the shot without endangering my life, so the vet switched her to 10 smz tabs twice a day for 5 days.
She is eating fine, but does still have some discharge coming out of her left nostril. I am very concerned about giving her the beet pulp again, the vet did some work on her teeth but said she most likely bolted her food. Would regular hay be appropriate or would bagged forage be a better choice?? I have only had this horse for about 5 monthes so I am not sure how she handles winters.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 11:56 am:

Angie If I may respond to Kathleen....do you soak your beet pulp for at least 24 hrs so it doesn't reconstitute in the GI tract? I heard from my last 3 coaches that if you feed it and it's soaked less that that can cause choke when it comes into contact with saliva causing it to expand further.
Although I am not a beet pulp expert so someone correct me if I am mistaken.
New Member:
Kbr1

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 12:33 pm:

Corrine,
Thanks, I soaked it for about 20 minutes in hot water, but it is shredded beet pulp so I think it can be feed dry. I am just concerned about the chances of pneumonia setting in. I am hoping the discharge is a result of the vet tubing her.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 1:59 pm:

Kathleen,
I sure hope your mare doesn't have any more issues with choke or complications of such. As for the beet pulp I didn't know it came any other way but shredded, who knew. Anyway, if you feed it again soak it for 24 hrs with lots of water. Mine thinks his is stew and slurps it up, plus he gets added hydration and it's his favorite part of dinner.
Prayers that no pneumonia sets in, hopefully the pen g will help prevent that!
Good luck.

Corinne
New Member:
Kbr1

Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 6:28 pm:

Corinne,
Thanks for the advice. I am keeping my fingers crossed about the pneumonia, she went ape over the shots so she is now on SMZ for 7 days, since she is so jumpy I can get her temp taken either. But aside from the one nostril draining she seems like herself. Thanks again.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 29, 2006 - 9:23 am:

Welcome Kathleen,
We have an article and other discussions on Choke at, Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Mouth, Esophagus, and Liver » Choke: Esophageal Obstruction. If you have questions following studying the article and other posts, you can post your own discussion using the link at the bottom of that page. Addressing Corinnes suggestion, we do not feel soaking of beet pulp is necessary and have not seen any particular problems feeding dry, we have seen horses choke on just about every foodstuff there is including grass.
DrO
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Sunday, Oct 29, 2006 - 10:53 am:

Thanks Dr. O. That makes my mind rest a bit (well except the part they can choke on anything) just in case someone doing chores, if the managers are gone, don't soak it for long. Perhaps that is long standing myth as I have heard that from three different coachs in three different states.
Corinne
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