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  Discussion on Horse Heaves
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 22, 1999 - 2:38 pm:

I just bought an 8 year old TB jumper in March. Immediately after the purchase he developed respiratory allergies. He is currently on herbs and is moving to a barn where he'll be outside most of the time. I am just wondering if its fair to him (and me) to use him as a jumper, considering all the heavy breathing he'll have to do in the show ring. I don't plan on showing till next year in order to build up his topline. However,I am wondering if should I put all this work into a horse, who, at times, coughs and has trouble breathing? Is it fair to him? Is it fair to me? Thanks, Liz (Chicago, IL)

Posted on Friday, Jul 23, 1999 - 6:19 am:

It depends on the relative amount of permanant damage vs reversible pathology. With proper management many heavy horses can compete successfully as much of the causes of coughing and heaviness are reversible: bronchoconstriction and fluid. However with long term poor management areas of the lung permanently consolidate and these horses will have reduced exercise tolerance. See the article in Diseases: Respiratory: Heaves for more information on proper treatment and management.
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 23, 1999 - 9:38 am:

I use a product called Tri-Tussin for these symptoms. My stallion shows signs of allergies and bronchial congestion. Because I race him I have to quit using it 72 hours out from his race date but it really helps him to cough up the junk in his lungs. He also get MSM daily to help with any inflammation.

Posted on Friday, Sep 17, 1999 - 1:26 pm:

Liz Jopp Here again. My horse is now on the hay cubes (alfalfa/timothy mix), outside for 8 hours a day, at night in a very well ventilated barn, has shavings for bedding, never touches hay, is on MSM and herbs for inflammation and coughing plus a new antioxidant from VitaFlex. He is STILL COUGHING and cannot be excercised. I have read all of your articles. My vet says steriods and inhalers. Do these actually work and if they do for how long? How much do they cost? I have owned him for 6 months and have gotten maybe a month of actual riding time on him. Should I do a bronchial scope? or Chest xrays. My vets (yes I have 2) are not suggesting any tests. What do you suggest?
Liz

Posted on Friday, Sep 17, 1999 - 4:21 pm:

My horse had the same symptoms as yours a few months after I bought him off the track 8 years ago. My vet diagnosed him with heaves. Treatment consisted of soaking his hay and bedding. My vet also prescibed DEC syrup to put in his grain. As it was explained to me, this a dog/cat dewormer, but has shown to be effective to reducing/elimating coughing with approx. 30% of heavy horses. It seemed to work for my horse, within 2 weeks his coughing was reduced to the lone occassional cough at the beginning of a workout, and at 8 years later I have not heard him cough in years. Incidently, we discontinued use of the syrup or even watering his hay after 1 year, and the problem has not resurfaced.

I have looked for more information about the use of this syrup and have not seen it mentioned or recommended as a treatment option for heaves. However, I can say it did seem to work well for my horse.
Jaime

Posted on Saturday, Sep 18, 1999 - 8:26 am:

Hello Elizabeth,
Even 30 minutes of exposure to the inside of the barn will result in 14 days of brochial hyperreactivity. You have to get this horse out of the barn, at least till well and perhaps for ever. A two sided run in shed is suitable.

If the diagnosis is COPD secondary to hay molds or barn dust. Steroid inhalers are effective but no more so than oral corticosteroids and a whole lot more expensive. Run this by your vet:
1) No barn time at all.
2) No hay, the cubes are probably OK, but without response I would go to one of the beet pulp complete feeds.
3) 1/2 mg per lb prednisolone (prednisone is not recommended) daily until the heaves attenuates, may take a month outside. Once attenuated go to alternate day therapy till well.

If your horse is allergic to hay molds or the duct in the barn he will not get well until he is taken out of the barn, period.
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Sep 19, 1999 - 10:19 am:

Hi Liz... I understand your frustration. I have a horse with COPD. He is a 10 yo QH that was used on the track as a 2 yo. Believe it or not, but I use him for barrels now. We went from steroids to reduce the swelling in his lungs to Prednisone (prednisolone is now recommended instead of prednisone) for maintnence. He is doing great. I have done alot of research on this topic and have found a few things that work great on my horse. I live in the Houston area where it is very hot and humid. The weather here aggrivates his condition so I have to be more aggressive in his treatment. I am doing a case study on him and documenting my results. Respirations and heart rate during different situations. My horse cannot tolerate being in the pasture during the day. I keep him in a open 1-sided stall during the day. If it is exceptionally hot out I put a sprinkler on the roof and keep his fan on hi. His bedding is kept moist to reduce the dust. I feed Purina Stategy as it is a pelleted feed, (I also moisten it slightly). His hay is emersed in water and hung in a hay bag appx. 3 ft. off the ground. He is turned out only at night when the weather is cool and the dew is on the grass. This, along with his medication, helps to control his allergies. It is not an easy task to care for this horse. It takes alot of time and commitment. I ride my horse appx. 2 hours a day - EVERYDAY - and he is doing great. My suggestion to you is to find a vet who is familiar with performance horses and will do what it takes to help you get this condition under control.

I am curious whether or not your horse had these symptoms when you bought him back in March. This could be summer pasture assoc. copd. If so, it is important to get him out of the enviornment. I am interested in your case and would like to email my horse's case-study to you if you would like it. I would like to keep up with your horses progress also. GOOD LUCK. joycameron@worldnet.att.net

Posted on Sunday, Sep 19, 1999 - 11:05 pm:

Hello Liz and Joy,
I have not met anyone with Summer Pasture Associated COPD though this is a well documented disease. (For those unfamiliar with this condition see the scientific reports in Disease: Respiratory: Heaves). Allergies to hay molds are a very common finding. How would one know if it is the pasture or the barn that is causing the problem since the necassary environment would be different?

History is about the only good differentiating factor at this point as clinical signs and laboratory are identical. Was your case seasonal prior to treatment? In other words did it appear in a particular season but not any others? Do you never have exacerbations in the late fall, winter, or early spring? Or, did you notice a particularly dusty batch of hay prior to the onset of the problem or during exacerbations. It is a bit of a dilemma and, as Joy points out, both causes should be thought about. However all things being equal bet on the hay and barn as a problem first.
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 20, 1999 - 1:53 pm:

Dr. O and Joy,
Thanks for the quick response!! My horse is going in for allergy testing October 1st depending upon the x-ray. If the x-ray shows extensive damage I am going to find him a nice backyard home out west. If he's treatable, then I will do allergy tests to see exactly what the allergies are. The horse started coughing immediately after I bought him in March, March 28th to be exact. So, I am not sure about the summer pasture COPD. But, he was in barn almost 24-hours in April, when he was very ill. So, I belive Dr. O is correct that its the hay and the barn.
Regarding his feed, he does get Complete Feed (2 types) and one of them has beet pulp.

My question is how do I keep him out of the barn in winter. He's your typical skinny TB, and I live in Chicago, he'll be too cold I think. Thanks for all your suggestions. Liz

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 21, 1999 - 6:55 am:

Hello Liz!

You said that your horse is going in for allergy
testing. Were are they doing these tests?

I'm living in Sweden and I'm trying to find a
laboratory who can make allergy tests on horses.

I found a laboratory (HESKA) in the UK. They made
allergy tests until a couple of years ago.
According to them there are no laboratories anywere in the world who can make these tests.
mail@svp.se

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 21, 1999 - 7:25 am:

Hello All,
Be very careful with blood and skin testing of horses for allergy. Though there are some whispers from the research institutions about new tests on the way, currently whenever the available tests have been researched they where found to be all but useless.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 21, 1999 - 5:12 pm:

DrO and Solveig:
Hi! I am glad Dr. O mentioned that these tests are not yet proven. I was just going to post a message asking about them today. I wasn't sure if they were a viable solution or not. I am glad to know before I spent the money. However, if you want to know the equine hospital that recommended them its Illinois Equine in Naperville Illinois (630) 898-9225.
FYI, My horse is doing much better. He has been off hay for a week and he's been fine. No coughing and no heavy breathing. The vet checked him on Monday and he was OK! I'm still going to do the xray and scope, just to see what's up!
Thanks for everything. I am willing to get more advice, however, if you know of any other heaves cures. Liz

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 1999 - 7:42 am:

Hello Elizabeth,
It goes beyond not proven, the tests that have been studied have been found to be inaccurate: they identify substances as allergens when they are not and they do not identify as allergins substances which are.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 22, 1999 - 7:50 am:

Oh, I almost forgot the most important thing: Super About Your Horse, Elizabeth, this is a disease that can never be cured but in my expereince is completely managable by realizing the culprit is an allergy to hay molds, these molds are found in every barn, and even brief exposures has long range bad effects on the lungs. Everything else on the subject is just obfuscation in my opinion except in a very few cases that I have not encountered yet. The first summer pasture associated COPD I see will surely through me for a diagnostic loop.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 19, 2000 - 12:33 pm:

Hi Everyone & Dr. O:

Do you think my horse has summer pasture related COPD if he's coughing spring, summer and fall & literally has no sign of the disease in winter. He was diagnosed by the vet with heaves during the summer and the clinic took x-rays and diagnosed him as an allergic horse.

Hay no longer bothers him and he's not upset by being ridden inside. I am asking these questions because you stated in the article that summer pasture COPD is so rare and you haven't seen it. So, Is there some way to "prove" that he's got it or do I just wait for spring and see what happens?

Thanks, Liz.

Posted on Thursday, Jan 20, 2000 - 9:59 am:

Hello Elizabeth,
I am going to leave your post here as this is about the same horse as in the original post.

I do not think you can diagnose it from the time association alone, you have to look at the hay as a variable factor: what if that summer you got a batch of hay with mold spores and once you got him past the insult the aount of mold currently in the air is acceptable to his system? It will take time and looking at patterns that repeat thmselves to sort out all these variables, keep an open mind.

Its not that summer associated COPD is rare as much as it is not in my area, I think.
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 20, 2000 - 9:35 am:

Hello All,
Here we have another confusing run of posts and added to the bottom of Elizabeth's posts from last summer to boot! I will move these into logical discussion groups within this forum, back up one to Heaves using the navigation bar at the top and find your topic by the title I have given it. I will respond tomorrow.

Remember, unless you are contributing to the original question in a discussion start your own discussion with a descriptive title. I know this all seems very picky but we spend hours every day straightenening out these forums so that you can locate information and as the ever lengthening Bulletin Board shows: we loose ground every day. This is time that could be better used adding new content to the site.

Help us out, if you are unsure of what I am talking about study the "Getting Started" topic under "Help" on the Navigation Frame on the left and together we can continue to grow this resourse in an organized fashion. If your browser does not frequently refresh pages you migh want to hit the refresh button to get the latest version of Getting Started.
DrO
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