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  Discussion on Chronic diarrhea and chewing problem
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Posted on Friday, Jan 25, 2002 - 5:04 pm:

I have an almost two year old filly who's had soft, cowpie like manure for months now. She also has trouble chewing her hay. Pelleted feed, she does fine. I've had my vet examine her mouth 4 times in the past year and she can't find any abnormalities. Vet was just out today and looked again, says that with the way she eats she'd expect to see her teeth worn funny but they looked fine. My vet checked the filly's manure for sand, only found small amount, not enough she felt to cause chronic diarrhea. The soil IS sandy in my area. Vet checked temperature and listened to gut sounds, all normal. This filly has never acted sick, no colic, never off feed, never listless. She has grown normally and is not thin. Manure does not have a foul odor, no mucous or blood. Sometimes she had very liquidy feces but I took her off alfalfa hay about a month ago and that pretty much took care of it. She gets TDI, a pelleted feed, and oat hay. I used to feed half oat and half alfalfa hay until I experimented with taking away certain feeds to see if the diarrhea stopped. Taking the TDI away did not help. I have a four year old mare and the two horses are in adjoining pens and switch pens every 24 hours, the four year old has never had diarrhea so we are pretty confident this is a problem unique to the younger filly. I've also been giving the two year old a probiotic supplement and it hasn't made a difference that I can tell.
I did read the overview on diarrhea and wormed my filly about a month ago, I didn't see her pass one dead worm. I have been fairly regular about worming her and she has shed dead worms in the past.
My vet is considering that the filly's chewing problem and diarrhea are related, and we plan on taking x-rays of the mouth (to see if there is something going on the vet can't see or feel). Also she is going to call the Davis vet school for ideas on what may be going on.
Any thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks, Karen

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2002 - 7:15 am:

Unfortunately, most vets have not had the extra training in equine dentistry. Before you spend money on x-rays, spend the money on a good equine dentist or a vet who has had the extra dental training. It will probably cost you about the same.

We are fortunate to live near NCSU. Our vet (who was on staff) recognized the need and became certified to teach equine dentistry. The first time she came out here over four years ago, it took an average of 1-½ hours per horse to float and correct problems in the mouths that had been overlooked. Because of the excellent care our horses have received, the average float time now is 30 minutes. We have a small boarding barn and it has been interesting to watch what is involved when a new horse comes here and uses our vet or another vet who has had the extra courses. In almost every case, the floating time takes over an hour the first time. It is extremely educational to watch and feel the difference before and after. I guarantee once you have seen it done correctly, you will never be satisfied with anything less.

A great example is a twenty-year-old horse we had boarded here on our small farm. He colicked and after ruling out any management practices, the vet checked his mouth (you have to use a speculum in order to check correctly), and said, “here’s why”. The horse’s teeth were so bad, he was swallowing his food whole. Needless to say, the owner was extremely upset, as she had had his teeth checked every six months for seven years. She had always been told they were fine or just needed a couple of points taken off. This guy literally “blossomed” once he could eat properly again and is still going strong.

We have asked in the past why this happens. The answer seems to be either the vet has not had the extra training so doesn’t know how or what to check for, it is hard work and very time consuming, or the client is unwilling to pay the extra cost. The cost is minimal compared to the problems it can create. It might be good to check with UC Davis and see whom they recommend in your area. Our vets have hydraulic operated field equipment now, so it really cuts down on the time. The vet school also uses the hydraulic equipment, but it can still be done by hand. Just takes more effort.

A standard suggestion for diarrhea also is to double dose with Strongid for five days. This should be done anyway at least once a year. Here in NC, we dose in November as we are in the Piedmont region. You can do it now, but check with your vet about the time of year to incorporate it into your worming program for your region if you don’t already do it.

Personally, I would start with the teeth first, worming second and then move on. I assume your vet has done a CBC to rule out other issues.

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2002 - 1:38 pm:

Hello Karen and Liz,
Lets see mainly I wanted to point out that the article associated with this forum, Diarrhea Overview, will give you specific causes and treatments including nonspecific treatments.

It is not uncommon for a 2 to 5 year olds to have transient bouts of difficult chewing as the deciduous premolars are replaced and the molars come in for the first time. However as Liz reminds us some of the problems are treatable, like retained baby teeth (caps).
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2002 - 8:40 pm:

DrO,
Thanks for the response. My vet, who admittedly is not an equine dentist, has however been attending seminars on equine dentistry and has an interest in it (she tells me she has alot of older horses in her practice, and sees a real need for it). The only person she knew of in my area that does equine dentistry is NOT also a vet, and she (right or wrong) is a bit leery of him since he's not a veterinarian. I have alot of faith in my vet as it's been my experience with her that if she can't help me she will work to find who can, and will outright tell me who to go to. Every time she's checked this filly she's diligently looked for caps. Now, she'd be the first to admit she may be missing something and she's researching this.
I have to ask DrO when you mention "transient bouts of difficult chewing" have you ever seen a young horse have this go on for almost a year?

Thanks again,
Karen

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2002 - 10:08 pm:

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post, the chewing problem surfaced well before the filly turned two (actually, she'll turn two Feb. 28th). My vet says she really "chipmunks" food in her cheeks.
I also have to wonder, maybe a swallowing problem?
Although she appears to swallow her pellets with no problem (imagine a powerful vacuum sucking up dirt with gusto).

Karen

Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2002 - 12:22 am:

I don't know about foals and eating, but if your horse's problems turn out to be teeth, get a specialist. Most vets are not accomplished equine dentists, and an equine dentist need not be a vet.

I live in an area that has a great vet hospital, great vets, and lots of equine sports medicine specialists. None of us who own horses would dream of asking our vets to float our horses' teeth. We have great equine dentists for that. Not to say there aren't vets who are great with teeth, but around here (eastern MA) the equine vets leave teeth to the teeth pros.
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