This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Foal Diseases » Patent Urachus and Diseases of the Umbilical Cord »
  Discussion on Abnormality of the External Umbilical Stalk
Author Message

Posted on Monday, Jun 10, 2002 - 3:22 am:

I purchased a new stallion prospect and bred him to 4 test mares. The mares were fed free choice minerals, alphalfa hay and in the 9th and 10th months of gestation, they also had Oat green feed along with the hay.
All 4 foals were born with abnormally thick umbilical cords. Thicker around than a mans index finger. All have a pouch of skin with approx. 1 to 2 inches of umbilical stalk inside the pouch and approx. 1 inch outside the pouch. 3 foals are now 30 days old and the stalks have still not withered up and fallen off. 1 filly developed an infection in the rotting stump on the outside of the pouch of skin. This is the 3rd day of soaking it in HyDrOgen Peroxide, then dipping it in a weakened iodine solution. Also giving 5 cc of Synergistin dailey. Finally the stump sloughed off. She remains bright and active. Here are my questions. (1)What else can be done for this filly and the other 3 foals? (2) Is the remaining 2 inches of stalk encased in the pouch of skin going to become infected too? (3) Is it possible feeding the green feed for those 2 months had anything to do with this? A wise old horseman tells me that feeding green feed can cause thickened umbilical cords, placenta and in fact some foals are unable to break their thickened sacks at birth and sufocate. (4) Is this genetic from the stallion. I do not want to put thousands of dollars into show training on him if this is heriditary. NOTE: This fillies cord did not want to break at birth. The mare stood up and as the placenta was still inside her, she tried to walk away and actually drug the foal 4 or more feet before the cord broke. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Gayle

Posted on Monday, Jun 10, 2002 - 7:29 am:

Hello Gayle,
The description you give of the unbilical stumps does not sound abnormal to me, including the size and frequent appearance of a pouch around the stump. Maybe having 4 at one time is a bit odd but these pouches usually resolve by the end of the first month. When mares are disturbed prematurely I have also seen foals dragged by the umbilicus.

Your treatment of the stumps may be contributing to your problem as both the hyDrOgen peroxide and iodine is tissue toxic and may be causing the rotting and preventing drying and withering. We have previously discussed this issue in the article on first aid of wounds and in the article on caring for the newborn and you should review that article for more information.

The old timer is talking about a problem with feeding fescue (hay or grass) and not with green feed in general, for more on this see, Equine Diseases: Reproductive Diseases: Birthing Problems: Fescue Toxicity and Lactation Failure. If green feed led to reproductive problems in horses, they would have become extinct long ago.

I cannot predict if you are going to have worsening problems with the existing stumps and if there is a serious concern you should have them examined by a vet familiar with the appearance of foals. As you may have guessed by now we have articles on diagnosing problems of the umbilicus at Equine Diseases: Foal Diseases: Patent Urachus and Diseases of the Umbilical Cord.

I do not know if this represents a genetic problem with the stallion though this strikes me as unlikely: your descriptions are not unusual and your treatments may have contributed to the slow disappearance. Let's say I missed something in the descriptions and there are abnormalities in all 4 foals...it is possible but there could still be other explanations: environmental factors to which all four mares were exposed can cause congenital defects also.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 - 1:37 am:

My treatment of the stump(s)? Only one of the four has been touched in any way, shape or form. And I might add, on the advice of a Vet. He said to soak the infected stump on the ONE foal in Benadine Solution or else HyDrOgen Peroxide, then to dip it in a WEAKENED solution of Iodine to dry it up. And to give Synergistin.

I just now spoke on the phone with the Old Timer and he was talking about Green Feed. And no I don't have to come to this site to know about feeding Fescue.

As for the size of these umbilical cords being normal and the pouches resolving themselves by the end of the first month. Well 3 of the foals are now a week over one month old and their cords and pouches are still very much there. Golly Gee!

Let me repeat, the stump became infected before I ever touched it. Please read people's posts a little bit more carefully before making it sound like the owner is causing all the problems. As for my vet, I will inform him that he knows nothing about foals. Gayle Bunney

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 11, 2002 - 8:42 am:

Hello Gayle,
Concerning how many stumps you may have treated with the above regimen or when you may have appled those treatments, I apologize for not being psychic, but my comments about the treatment you are using stands: studies have found that the use of iodine on the umbilical stump resulted in tissue necrosis and a overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria. But this is explained in the article I referenced above.

What is Green Feed? I assumed before that he meant grass and hay (you know green feed?).

Gayle if you have 3 or 4 umbilical hernias (the swellings you describe) you may have to have surgery on them, but I cannot make that diagnosis from here. I have never had to remove a persistant umbilical stump even if it did not follow the usual rules, in time they always have withered up. I do not see anything in your post that makes me think yours might be different but then again I cannot examine the foals from here. If you and your vet do not feel that is going to happen it seems you have two choices:
1) surgery (recommended)
2) clamping or banding (not recommended but has been done for small hernias successfully).

I am not blaming you for all your problems, Gayle, and if that is the way you feel about your vet I think you should keep it to yourself you may need his help in the future. I remember your contentious posts from earlier this year but I remain dedicated to trying to help you, if I can. However we will get further faster by cooperating.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 3:16 am:

Okay let me try one more time. Please quit scanning posts and actually read them. I clearly state that,"3 foals are now thirty days old and the stalks have not withered up and fallen off. ONE filly developed an infection, etc.etc. and That this is the third day of treating her,etc.etc." I clearly state that, you don't have to be Psychic to see that.
As for my description of Oat Green Feed!!!
I am shocked and dismayed that you do not know what Oat Green Feed is!!! All over the world, farmers have grown Green Feed for centurys. Crops of perferably Oats, taken off when the heads are filling with grain but not ripe yet. It must be harvested while still GREEN, before the heads of grain ripen. (An oat crop turning yellow means go ahead and leave it, combine it and feed the mature oat kernals on the side and leave the yellow straw for bedding the animals.) It is to low in protein, regardless of the person swatthing the crop down at the exact time, but higher in some feed analisis than hay. Although cattle do well on it, horses tend to eat only the immature heads of grain and leave the stalks.
I am up here in Canada, but have many Agriculture meomos, notes and books dealing with all regions of the United States and most people would know what Green Feed is???
I actually use about 6 Vets, depending on the level of Expertise of each one. That of course is for more animal health concerns than horses.
I have no problems with this particular Vet, I simply stated that you wanted me to see a Vet with some knowlegde of the appearance of foals. Which I had done. He tells me "When he has a spare moment, he will visit your Website, but at this moment, he happens to be working, sometimes 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. He says that maybe you should get back out into the field of real practice. Once again, please read the posted questions and not just skim over them. Gayle Bunney

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 7:23 am:

Gayle,
The fact that you state the particular time of treating one stump does not preclude the fact you may have treated them at other times and in fact would be considered standard care by the majority of the foaling experts. It does not matter how carefully I read you do not state this before my first reply and I would have to have been psychic to know this. My only goal was to try to direct you to the best treatment of umbilical stumps based on solid scientific and practical experience.

What you call green feed is what I call oat hay. If you wait until it is brown we call that oat straw. Our article Care for Horses: Nutrition: Roughage and Forage for Horses, an Overview lists the approximate protein values of the two at 9% and 5% protein respectively however when the hay has seed heads there is a variable increase in the protein that must be measured to be determined accurately. Despite having dealt with tens of thousands of horsemen over the years I have never heard the term nor can I find it in the index of any of the books I have on nutrition and horse care. Despite working with numerous local growers of oats and hay I have never heard any of them use the term. Neither have I heard the term in 26 years of involvement with equine veterinary practice. Neither have I heard it in the 7 years of running this site which represents over 90,000 posts (over 30,000 on this board and over 60,000 on the old Matt Wright board) from tens of thousands of horse people from all over the world. The fact that I have not seen this term is really nothing to be dismayed about Gayle, it just needed explanation by you about what you were talking about:

I know of no condition in foals caused by feeding immature oat hay with seed heads if the quality is good and the low protein, low calcium, and potentially low selenium is made up for. Poorly stored oats can grow ergot which is a fungus that produces toxins. What is interesting about this is that the toxin produced by the fescue fungus is an ergot like alkaloid suggesting a possible relationship between oats and unusual placental structures. Also ergot is known to cause fetal abnormalities. However I know of no cases in horses where such foal problems were related to feeding oats.

Your contentious attitude continues to be more important to you than any real conversation about your problem. The fact that in your first post you:
1) did not say how the stumps were treated prior to your problems and
2) did not say your veterinarian had examined these foals
yet take great affront at my trying to help you with these two aspects of foal care in my first post continues to baffle me. It appears you have gone out of your way to:
1) Insult and denigrate me
2) Become insulted when no insult was intended and extended it to the implication that I insulted your vet. If you look at your first post you never mention having a vet look at it and it seemed like a reasonable suggestion by me.

What I do with my time is my business Gayle and anyone who pretends otherwise suggests a conceit and presumptuous that is hard to understand. Going by your misrepresentation above, I suspect your vets comments come from a misrepresentation by you of what I said here. I will be glad to post any of his comments if he will email them to me (click on my name above) but I would prefer we stick to the case rather than post insults.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 10:39 am:

Gayle,

I have read your original post, over and over again, and find no reference to asking a vet, etc., etc., etc. Juding by Dr. O's response to your post, he seemed only to try to direct you to the articles, posts, etc., that might help you formulate your own opinion and necessary treatment of your foals. I do not see any area in which he made a personal dig at you or your ability as a horseperson.

I have had dealings with many veterinarians in my short 40years of being around horses. In all my dealings with Dr. Ogelesby, he has always been approachable, pleasant, and forthcoming with information. I have always felt that I could ask him any question about my horse without feeling stupid. His goal (in my humble opinion) is to educate and help the everyday horseperson, so that they can feel comfortable with their equines.

Dr. Oglesby spent years studying at school and then as stated by his post, has practiced many more years. Judging by his website he not only practices but spends many hours researching so that we members can benefit from his knowledge.

As with any profession, there are many different opinions on one subject. Our job is to take what we want and leave the rest. We all have that right! You obviously have alot of experience with horses, and breeding etc., etc., so maybe you would be better off finding another veterinarian that agrees with your opinions. Or if you do ask for someones advice, take it graciously, and if you don't agree with what they are saying, just thank them and ask someone else.

I do not generally post, but I feel that insulting someone that is only trying to help, especially upsetting.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 11:22 am:

I second that Andrea! Couldn't have said it better. I do not usually go onto internet sites, and have never used the "chat groups", but as a horse owner, it is so nice to have found this place to post questions and get GOOD VALUALBE INFORMATION...
Cathy

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 1:20 pm:

Boy, am I squirming! Dr O - please don't think that all Canadians are confrontational and ungracious! We are normally a very polite and appreciative bunch!

Thanks for all the hard work you put into this website. I've been involved with training and breeding horses for the better part of 40 years and find the articles and discussions to be tremendously valuable and informative.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 3:58 pm:

Gayle,

I joined this website approx. 1 year ago and have read many of DrO's posts to members with extremely complicated conditions as well as your everyday injury or condition.

I consider him extremely intelligent and very cooperative considering we ask him to diagnose our horses problems from many miles away.

I have never seen any posts as "bashing" as yours and wonder why you are even asking for his assistance as you mention you already use 6 vets.

And, by the way, you won't even get a vet bill from him!

I encourage you to research this website more to see the interesting articles and discussions.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 6:07 pm:

Gayle, c'mon, don't let your nose get out of joint so easily. Life's too short. I must confess that in 40+ yrs of raising, training, showing and teaching, I've never heard of Green Feed. My niece, who breeds, trains, teaches and shows professionally in Canada ( and throughout the U.S.) never heard oat hay called that nor had my other niece, an equine vet in Mass. specializing in COPD ( thus making hay, a very interesting substance to her ). We've always called it oat hay, just like the good Dr. After all, that's what it is, isn't it. Why would anyone want to rename it? Face it, horses cause us all to weep and wail, tear out our hair, and rend our garments in frustration. But they also lead us to each other....and us horse people......we're all pretty darn special.

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 9:09 pm:

Amen. Anyone ever had good results with Quietex or Calm and Cool Pellets or Paste? :-)
Holly

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 9:14 pm:

For what it's worth, I'd love to put into this in just stating that I would love for you to remain posting on this board. It's one of the few places I've been where not agreeing on everything is okay, different ways to "skin a cat" (ick) is okay, and the variety of input allows us to always learn from anyone else. I've been in the habit in the past of shutting down input from others who I felt were "not my sort", but on this board I can't tell "my sort" and all of a sudden I'm taking notice of people who otherwise I might have rejected in a first person basis (shame on me!) Anyway, it sounds like you have alot to offer the rest of us over time; and I can't imagine that they don't have something to offer too - heck, even small children can shed immense light on life at the most amazing moments. Just my two cents....thanks for posting, sorry for ire, hope the foals are faring well. Dawn

Posted on Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 - 11:32 am:

Well, I guess there's not much I can add. Andrea, Cathy, Sue, and others have said it very well.

Gayle ~ Are you always this impolite to people who are only trying to help you? If so, you might consider an attitude adjustment. I'm sorry, but I am seriously offended at the way you've treated Dr. Oglesby. It was uncalled for, unnecessary and childish. I have been involved with horses for 25 years, have been all over the US, and have NEVER heard the term Green Feed. I had no idea what you were referring to.

DrO, I'm sorry you have been subjected to such insulting and condescending treatment.

Sue, I've been to Canada and the Canadians I met were just wonderful. I'm sure none of us think Gayle is representative of your fine country.

Suzy

Posted on Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 - 12:08 pm:

Ditto the above postings in support of DrO and this site. One of the things I like best about this site is the respect and professionalism DrO and the members display.

The owner of a barn where I boarded my horses used to go to some of those horse "chat rooms" and there was a lot of flamming going on. What a waste of time and energy. I've never logged onto anything like that and am happy to pay to be a member of a site where the emphasis is on providing excellent information and aid - in a caring, professional manner and tone. The respect and concern the members show one another is the icing on the cake.

Thanks DrO and fellow members!

K-

Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 1:17 am:

Holly: When used in combination with two or so glasses of wine ( preferably white ), Quietex and Calmex work wonders....mellows me right out.
J

Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 2:23 am:

Both of these Universitys know what Green Feed is. The University of Saskatchewan and the Colorado State University. Both are Veterinary teaching facilities. You can also check the book, Feeds and Feeding, by Morrison. Covers almost all feeds world wide. Or check The Merck Veterinary Manual. It took awhile but yes I found the two words, Green Feed pertaining to Oat or Barley. To see the words in print on your computer screen, go to the following. Look for the words, GREEN FEED!!!
(1) https://www.producer.com/classifieds/sections/6510.html
(2) https://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/crops/oats/utility02.html
(3)htpp://www.westernwheel.com/000119/classifieds.html
(4) htpp://gmr.landfood.unimelb.edu.au/rimmo/hyperbook/7/7.3.html#RTFToC6

One more thing, if Oats are not harvested as green feed, they end up being combined. The left over Straw is Yellow, not Brown. I hope this clarifies the term Green Feed for you girls.

Now everyone, please do have a Bashing Good Time. Gayle

Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 8:08 am:

Hello Gayle,
Thank you for the information on GREEN FEED! I also went to several websites and found information(mainly from Canada, I might add).
Sounds like it is similar to silage which is fed to cows. Maybe we don't feed it in the States, because there are problems with doing so(Abnormality of the External Umbilical Stalk)

I can only speak for myself, but I am always interested in learning and any information that members have on different subjects is always welcome. That is why this website is fantastic!!
Do you realize that between Dr. O and all of the members, there are thousands of horse experience hours to be shared.

My point still stands however, that insulting a person who is trying to help is totally unacceptable. YOU ASKED FOR THE ADVICE, REMEMBER!!

Good Luck Gayle, I hope your foals do well.

Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 8:50 am:

Oh, my. This is very unsettling. The HA has always been the best of the best. We aren't rude just because we can be or because we are behind the safety of our monitors and miles away. We can disagree without being hostile.

It's nice to have an answer to what Green Feed is, as I had never heard of it before. Different parts of the country and world use different terms for the same thing. NOONE can be expected to know all of them. We are not stupid for not knowing what GREEN FEED is, nor should we be be treated like we are.

~Barbara

Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 10:02 am:

In addition to my membership here, I also belong to a few other internet groups (dog, horse etc.). Without exception, HA blows me away with the level of quality information supplied by Dr. O and the experienced horsepersons. But what strikes me more consistently is the level of respect and cordiality that people on HA treat each other with. You just don't see anything like it anywhere else.

I think many of us have agreed that Gayle's communication style is not as respectful as it could be. In any event, there are facts to be exchanged, questions to be asked, and advice to be given. Now that we've had the opportunity to offer Dr.O our support for his fine work and patience (and humor!), I suggest that it's time we leave it and move on.

Posted on Saturday, Jun 15, 2002 - 12:59 am:

You're probably right about that, Mary. We've all learned what Green Feed is, and I was quite curious about it since I'd never heard the term. But, GEEZ, Gayle, why do you cop such an attitude? Every time you post, I feel like I've been slapped in the face. Sigh...

Suzy and Indy

Posted on Saturday, Jun 15, 2002 - 4:10 am:

I am not going to bother to write again because I never seem to get anywhere. But no Andrea, Green Feed is NOT similar to silage. Not even a little bit. I have spent my life with not only horses but many species of animals including Bovines (cows). I grew up with them and rode my fathers Show Bulls long before I ever owned my very own horse. I was, I believe 8 years old before getting my very OWN first horse. The bulls were Registered Horned Herefords, mostly Britisher, Domino and Standard Lad breeding. Long, yet square build bulls. Massive size for Hereford breeding back in those days. Neither is green feed, HAY. Hay is cut and cured legumes and grasses. Green feed is a cereal crop. (SIGH).

The sigh is for the fact I paid to become a member and get information from this site, and have not done so. AND did not realize that what was meant to be a post between this Vet and myself included having a whole whack of women get on the defensive. I have never belonged to a CHAT room in my life, simply because I work and work long hard hours everyday and don't have the time. I often don't even get to the computer until midnight. So now I realize that what this site is, is a Paid to be a member CHAT room.

By the way, people out there, the Classifieds on a couple of the websites I gave you, change every week, so if by chance you enter this CHAT room at a later date, and there is no Green Feed for sale that week, just wait a while and soon there will be.

Perhaps what really upset me the most is the fact I spoke of "A Wise Old Horseman" commenting on OAT Green Feed, and had this 84 year old man insulted by being told, "The Oldtimer is talking about Fescue. How in the world a person got Fescue from the words OAT Green Feed astounds me to no end. And, girls, most elderly people do not like being called Old Timers. Trust me, I also volunteer in any possible spare moments to assist our elderly in any way possible.

Perhaps some of you would like to get to know some of our wise old Horsemen. And learn that they dewormed horses with things like the ashes from their wood burning cook stoves, charcoal and if the horse was really wormy with a Plug of Chewing Tobacco. Let's face it, if it killed anything, it was the adult worms only, not any other stages of worms. Wise Old Horsemen/women are far outdated but can still teach us a few things.

I did have one more question for the doctor but am afraid to ask it really as you girls will fly off the handle. Or I will get told to just go to this or that article already entered. It is such a simple question really? I have a newborn chestnut colored stud colt born with chestnut colored hair (about an inch long) on the end of his penis. Oh, yes, while a Vet was out to geld my two year old who only has one testicle down (the left one retained as per usual) he noticed the hair and basically said (WHAT THE +#&^@#*&). That was yesterday. Today an older, very wise Farrier was here to trim feet. While doing the Dam, I said, "Hey, Ken, look up for a second at the new baby's under carriage." He couldn't believe it. The Work Experience Girl from school just stared. The lady who works for me (mostly grooming and helping doctor my large array of dogs), but also has spent her life with horses, just kept staring and saying, "Only one of your animals, Gayle, only one of yours!!!)

Hey, Girls, you think I'm joking around? You think I'm making it up? Sorry, I have four witnesses already. Now I would love to know the IF'S and WHY'S for this, but you see, asking why won't get me anywhere and I am tired of this CHAT room. So, I quit. I just plain don't have time for this. Hopefully this baby will be normal in all other respects. Hopefully this year of wierd horse happenings will end soon. Goodbye and please remember that our elders truly can still teach us a thing or two. Gayle (Gone, never to be heard from again.)

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 6:43 am:

Gayle, you continue to misrepresent what has occurred here and your lies are right there in print: you use the term green feed as to what the wise old man said. Yes I am aware you referenced Oat green feed earlier in your post but from my vantage of point of that time and actually what I know now green feed does not have to be oat green feed.

As to what green feed is you are incorrect when you state it is not hay at least according to the Alberta govt. Agriculture department. According to their bulletin this past fall green feed in considered a hay. I quote from a list of definitions of what they call "Alternative Feeds":
Green feed - oat and barley crops make excellent quality hay if the grains are harvested in the early-dough stage. However, quite often these crops are harvested for hay at a more mature stage because the grain crops failed. Harvesting at a more mature stage decreases the nutrient content. And in a DrOught year, green feed may have high nitrate levels. Do not use feeds with more than one per cent nitrate. (Agri News: Oct. - Dec., 2001. Alberta Government)

I apologize if my choice of words, "old timer" was found to be offensive to you as you referred to him as old, I meant none. Around here it refers to someone who has been around a long time. The reason I refer to fescue is because the symptoms you describe are caused by fescue and it is frequently green.
DrO
I apologize for the late post we have been off this weekend and I bumped my post up as it was a reply to Gayles accusations above.

Posted on Saturday, Jun 15, 2002 - 11:09 am:

Gayle...GET A GRIP!!!!!!!! Sorry for being so ignorant about Green feed. As I stated before, I am always willing to learn. If your method of teaching is belittling people then shame on you.

Quite frankly I don't care if you rode bulls, sheep or anything else. You obviously have spent too much time with Nasty Neil!!!!!! I too love to listen to "Old Timers" and people that have many years of experience. But most of the people I have spoken to are pleasant, nice people. So if you need to ask a question or don't know something are willing to show you without being rude.

This website is not just a chat room. It is a place where people CAN ask questions and get many good answers. If you are guided to an article it is because the subject has been researched, and if you feel that you can add to the article or have found new information, Dr. O is always willing to put that on the site.

It seems that there is no reasoning with you. Your lack of manners and etiquette, makes me hope that you are truly never in a position to teach anyone about anything.

I apologize to the members and Dr. O, for my post, I was hoping that this thread would lead to good information, after all some of the things that are happening to these horses are interesting, and yes what Green Feed is could have been enlightening. It seems that Gayle is only trying to put this website down to promote herself. again Shame on you Gayle!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on Sunday, Jun 16, 2002 - 12:49 am:

Let it go, Andrea. I think it probably gives her some kind of satisfaction to get a rise out of us. Yes, she IS infuriating, but she's also her own worst enemy and is incapable of realizing it. Really, I feel sorry for her. She seems to be very unhappy. Oh well...

Take care all,
Suzy and Indy

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 1:59 am:

But, seriously, what about the HAIRY PENIS?????????????
Hmm, maybe ElecTROLLysis??????????

sorry, could not resist........:)

Oh, and BTW, I have been around horses for 25 years, on both the east and west coast and have never heard of GREEN FEED.

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 12:29 pm:

Well, yeah, I agree that hair is REALLY strange. But, look on the bright side - it might help to keep the bugs off :O

Suzy and Indy - who doesn't have hair THERE.

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 7:25 pm:

Dr. O, what is your take on the HAIRY PENIS???? Seriously!!!! What would cause such a thing?

Gayle do you have a photo of your baby's penis?

Do you think this Green Feed thing could cause all these problems?

You guys are way too funny, had me falling off my chair.

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 7:34 pm:

Members, please don't be offended by the photo request, I simply am asking from a medical standpoint. Maybe Dr. O could explain it better.

I hate when I don't re-read my post!

Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 10:30 pm:

If Gayle's going to post that picture, she'd better make sure to put black tape across the eyes. And Dr. O, you'll have to give that post an "R" rating and "not suitable for younger viewers" alert. Is green feed related to haylage? I've heard of that....or...maybe.........SOILENT GREEN???? Oh noooooooo

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 7:19 am:

Hello Andrea,
I would like to see a picture of it also Andrea and from there might be able to conjecture what happened.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 1:02 pm:

Count me in as another who would LOVE to see a picture. This is another "new one on me," as I have NEVER heard of anything like this.

Suzy

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 4:01 pm:

Shame on all of you!

This has degenerated into a school girls dorm room but the unfortunate thing is that it is public.

I do not condone Gayle's message and I was rather appalled as the tone degenerated throughout the thread over the days I have been following it, but that does not give the rest of you the free reign to be rude at Gayle's expense (particularly towards the end).

We are all different and have different life experiences that make us who we are, we all have the ability to learn and to teach. I find this site to be the best on the web for equine info. And I have always respected this site and value DrO's opinion highly. It is not like chat rooms that frequently have raging forest fires. In this situation a fire extinguisher would have been better than tossing logs onto the bonfire.

I am sorry, this thread saddens me.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 4:55 pm:

Dr. Carol: You are right, you are so right.
Dr.O, and Gayle, I apologize profusely. But I have to give thanks to the wonderful members who can reach into the darkest recesses and shine the brilliant light of laughter therein and lift my spirits so. So many who live here by the Twin Towers have had to deal with such dark issues in the last year......On this site, I have found a place to learn and enjoy and laugh and forget (for a bit)with a really classy bunch of people with a wicked sense of humor. It should be thought of as a privilege, not an insult, to cause laughter in another. For when you make another person laugh, be it with you, or at your expense, you have, for a moment, lightened their soul.

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 5:17 pm:

AMEN, again. Thank you Elizabeth for picking up on my effort to lighten the tone awhile back. Thank you Dr. Carol for having the courage to say what I've been thinking.
Holly

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 8:45 pm:

Let's let this be it for this episode. I think I will leave this conversation up, not so much for the information as a reminder. In the almost 8 years of moderating a equine information site this is by far the worse thing I have been involved in but then I can only think of two other emotionally charged confrontational episodes on these boards. That is inspite of the fact we disagree with one another daily and we even learn from our differences. For that I am always grateful to all of our members.
DrO
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC