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  Discussion on Desire to eat, unable to swallow hay and grass, not drinking
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Posted on Monday, Aug 16, 1999 - 1:20 pm:

Dear Dr. O,

I have a 9 yr old gelding, App/Bel. Draft cross, 16.2 and fairly massive. He is ridden between 5 and 6 times a week, first level dressage. He is fit and had been extremely healthy for the four years I have been working with him. Current on shots, worming and dental work. No history of colic. He is in during the day and out all night with buddies in a pasture with a large creek (nearly dry now). I board him at a place that does not practice any pasture management, with horses on the pasture 24/7. This summer, our area has had the worst DrOught in our history. Needless to say, the pickings are slim at pasture.

He developed a problem on Sat. I have detailed out the history below. I hope I didn't take up too much space, but I thought you should know the history if you want to comment. Please review and comment if you can. I appreciate ANY help or suggestions you might offer.

Thanks very much,
Mary

HISTORY:

Fri., Aug 14. He ate normally - evening feed: 1/2 scoop sweet feed, two flakes hay.
I rode in the evening, a normal 1hr. Then turned out for the night with his three buddies.
We had very heavy storms that night, but the horses seemed ok the next morning. They have a shed.

Sat 8:00 am
Sat. morning he ate his grain (before I got to the barn) but not his hay. I assumed when I got there that they have been fed late (not an uncommon occurrence) and he had just not finished the hay yet. In actuality, had probably had eaten his grain about 7:00 and then refused the hay.

Sat 9:00 am
Not realizing there was a problem, I rode him lightly (1/2 hr) in preparation for a dressage show on Sunday. I notice some saliva dripping from his mouth during the ride, not the usually foamy mouth. It wasn't much dripping, but I did notice it. [That dripping saliva thing had happened once a year ago when he ate something in the field, but it passed in 24 hrs without incident.]

Sat about 9:30
When returned to his stall he still did not eat his hay. Very unusual. I took him outside to see if he would eat the grass, again, no interest. Also, no indication that he had drank anything since 6:00 am when he came in. I became worried. When returned to his stall he began to show symptoms of mild colic - some stall kicking, general discomfort, slight increase in respiration. Someone walked him while I called the vet.

Sat 1:00 pm
After walking, he seemed more comfortable, but still refused hay and water. However, when grazed he would take a mouthful, chew and then seem unable to swallow and instead work it back out of his mouth.
The vet arrived to see a comfortable horse in his stall. She did a rectal, checked temp, hart rate, all seemed fine. She decided to tube him with about 5 gal. of water with electrolytes since he wasn't drinking. I showed her his unusual thing he was doing with the grass (and now with the hay) of chewing and spitting out. She checked his mouth (but did not have a speculum) and did not see any obvious signs of problems.

As per her instructions, I gave him three choices of water (regular, with electrolytes and with apple juice) to try to encourage drinking. Periodically throughout the afternoon I walked him. He seemed to accept that he could not swallow and began just grazing and then spitting out as if it were normal. Did not exhibit any pain or discomfort or stress, but a strong design to graze - as if very hungry.

Sat. 9:00 pm
No change. Refusing water, unable to sallow grass or hay (but showing very strong desire to eat). He did seem to swallow a carrot. In phone call to the vet she admitted that she did not know what was causing this unusual behavior, could there have been something toxic in the field that he ate? No other horses were affected though. She suggested I might want to take him to New Bolten (a large-animal vet clinic associated with the U of P).

Sun 1:00 am
I arrived at the clinic with the horse. He tolerated the trip well, appeared relaxed and alert. Abdomen was tucked up, I assume from not drinking. He demonstrated the unusual eating behavior to the vet on call. He would eat and swallow grain, but not swallow hay, and refused water.
To check for botchalism (sp??) they tested various muscle reflex stuff (eyelids, tail, tongue) all seemed normal. He is current on vaccine for this as well. Also current on vaccine for Tetanus.
They used a tube with a camera to see all the way down into his stomach. If I hadn't been so concerned for his status I would have found it fascinating. All seemed absolutely fine. They checked his mouth, nothing obvious.
They checked some neurological stuff by tapping on his head and face to see if the muscles all responded. All ok.
They took blood - normal with slightly elevated creatinin (sp???) but they said it was not unexpected if he had not had any fluids.
They started an IV with DMSO (??) and would x-ray on Monday.

Sunday - all day
I spent most of the day there. Although he had at first spit out chunks of hay for the staff, I found that if I fed him a few straws at a time, he would chew forever, and then swallow. As the day wore on, he could handle tiny amounts of hay at a time. Mouthfuls were spit out. He drank a few ounces of water that afternoon. He ate and swallowed gain that morning and evening. Occasionally he would appear to chew with nothing in his mouth.

Monday 8:00
He seemed to be chewing more normally, and swallowing larger amounts of hay on his own. Also, he yawned several times - is that significant? After talking with the vet, she was going to take him off IV fluids (the DMSO was discontinued on Sun. night) and see if he would start consuming normal fluids again. We still plan to have x-rays of the head and she will do a more through physical of the mouth. If he continues to eat, and will drink, I will bring him home tomorrow.

So - what seemed so very bad at first because it was soooo odd, and without an apparent mechanical cause, is resolving (maybe) on its own. The vets witnessed the odd eating behavior too, so it wasn't just me …. They seemed truly stumped as well. Do you have any insights, suggestions or comments. Either on possible causes, or management from here on. I am particularly concerned about returning him to the same pasture if there is something toxic out there. Any suggestions on that end. I will inspect the pasture today after work - but I admit I don't know what I am looking for. I don't think the barn management will be interested in changing him to another pasture. Should I keep him in? I hate to do that though. Well, enough …. Once again, thanks for you time and help.

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 17, 1999 - 7:21 am:

Mary,
With a normal neurological exam, a tube passed with no problem, and normal endoscopic exam of the pharynx and larynx, I would bet he had a low grade colic. I have seen many mild colics where the horse would prehend and masticate but not swallow. They just stop like they are thinking about it and allow the food to fall back out.

If you are worried about problems in the pasture you should walk it, identifying all the possible toxic or dangerous factors.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 18, 1999 - 6:23 pm:

Dear Dr. O,

Thanks so much for your quick reply. I got it via e-mail but didn't get a chance to respond until now. My horse continued to improve through Monday and I brought him home Tuesday without incident. I read with interest your comment that…

"I have seen many mild colics where the horse would prehend and masticate but not swallow. They just stop like they are thinking about it and allow the food to fall back out."

…as my vet, her partner that she consulted with, and the vets at the clinic seemed to not be familiar with this behavior (without some obvious mechanical cause or clear diagnosis of some sort). So your experience certainly sheds new light. I went to your colic article to read up - I am learning a lot! After I have studied it I may have a few follow up questions.

Once again, thanks for your help. The articles and forums are just terrific sources of information.

Mary

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 1999 - 10:07 am:

Mary,

Is there any more information on your horse? I have an older gelding that just started with almost the exact same symptoms. Pretending to chew, DrOpping hay out of mouth, not drinking. Temp was 102.4 so called the vet. She said give two grams bute and retake temp in a.m. and she'd see him if necessary. After bute took effect, he ate all his hay and drank gallons of water and seemed fine. Temp was 99 in a.m. I had suspected something in throat, though not classic symptoms of choak, as he made strange noise as he stretched his neck out. Fine all day then next evening started it again. I didn't give bute and he didn't eat. Appears that he drank but paws at the water trough which makes me think tooth. Going to have him looked at today, if possible. No colic symptoms present. Poop normal, looks normal, acts normal but a little depressed. This morning temp just over 100. Hope your horse is better.

Dr. O, I read your comments above. Anything else to add? Just hoping it's not something contagious.

Thanks,
Pam N.

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 1999 - 6:45 pm:

Hello All,
Sounds like he has a fever and is not feeling a 100%. The bute made him feel better but then wore off. As I was telling Mary this occurs pretty commonly with horses that are a little off: they want to try food and then it seems like it is not such a good idea.

I have a hard time believing two equine vets are unfamiliar with this behavior as I see it almost monthly. Either the very mild colic, or the horse with colic but recovering after a injection of flunixin will act this way several minutes before becoming 100%.
DrO

PS Mary, isn't the emailed response a great feature. We still have many members who are not using this to get there replies.

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 1999 - 1:03 am:

Dr. O. This does not appear to be a mild colic. Had him looked at today and seems he probably has a sore throat as he "gargles" when you massage his throat--throat latch area, don't know what it's called. He's eating and drinking with a little bute. His teeth did need floating and he had chewed his cheek up pretty bad on one side and had an ulcerated area in the middle of the chewed area. All other vitals were normal except for a slightly elevated temp today. My vet really didn't know what to make of it for certain but felt it wasn't serious. Wonder how Mary's horse is doing?

Pam N.

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 1999 - 7:32 am:

Dear Pam,

I tried to post a response to your message yesterday, but somehow I must have messed it up … so here goes try number 2.

My horse recovered in about 36 to 48 hours without reoccurrence of symptoms. Also, it is important to note that my horse did not run a temperature, so that is different from what you are experiencing. It has been over a week now, he is back in normal work and doing fine. I am sorry to here that your horse is still feeling under the weather, but its good news that the vet thinks its nothing major. I hope he will be better soon. Please post his progress … I would be interested to know.

Mary


To Administrator - you may find an errant post somewhere from Mary regarding recovered horse, posted on 8/24 … opps, sorry … it should have been under this GI thread. I hope you can delete it.

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 1999 - 8:07 am:

Once again a thorough physical exam has explained a mystery!
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 1999 - 8:36 am:

Dear Dr. O,

Since my horse had his little bout of whatever, I have been reading the articles on this board to learn more. Although I have worked with this horse for four years, and am a voracious reader, I must admit that a large bulk of my reading and learning centered on training and basic management issues, rather than first aid and illness. He had never had so much as a hiccup - so I guess I was lulled into a false sense of security. However, the articles are very informative…I especially like the common sense approach of when to "not worry" and when to "hop to". That really helps the relative neophyte like me.

If you don't mind, a few follow up questions regarding your article on Colic First Aid, listed below for reference.

COLIC FIRST AID
If you come in to find your horse displaying signs of colic what to do depends on how severe the signs: If the signs are mild:

1. Take away all his feed, small amounts of water are OK.
2. The next step is to take his temperature; if he has a fever (above 101) call the vet.
3. Put a lead rope on him and walk or lunge him at a trot for about 10 to 20 minutes or go for a trailer ride for 30 min. Many mild colics will improve with either of these treatments.
4. Then put him back in the stall and watch him. If you are unsure about his condition, offer a small handful of feed and see if he will eat it. A colicky horse will as a rule not chew and swallow feed, though he may play with it.
5. If he is over his bout of colic, continue to check him frequently for 4 to 5 hrs. to make sure the pain does not return. He should not be fed for 12 hours after his appetite returns completely. He should be allowed water.
6. If he remains painful or you are unsure about his condition call the vet. Even if Old Faithful gets over his pain talk with your vet about possible causes and prevention.

QUESTIONS

A. If after walking the horse for 20 minutes he seems fine and is NOT running a temp, would you just say keep an eye on him and don't bother the vet. (I know you can't say for absolute sure, I am just looking for rules of thumb.)

B. You say to not feed for 12 hrs after normal appetite returns. Do you mean to include grain, hay and grass in this statement … or just grain?

C. Also, if the vet had been out and determined that it was not an impaction, and the horse seemed comfortable, would feeding hay/grass be ok? In other words, is the "no food for 12 hrs" related to impaction only, or are there other issues that make you say this?

D. You say that a colicky horse will, as a rule, not chew and (not) swallow feed, though he may play with it. Let's say after about 20 minutes discomfort the horse seems fine. How long would you expect this "not chew, no swallow" behavior to last? For example, if the horse exhibits this behavior continuously for 12 or 24 hrs, but there is no apparent other discomfort, is that typical or reason for concern?

E. Does this typical eating behavior (when associated with colic) also include the horse not wanting water?

F. How long would you let a horse refuse water before you intervened? (let's say in the summer heat - 85 to 90) What would be your general rule of thumb on how to intervene to provide fluids? Tubing? IV?

Thanks for the info. I'm sorta' just trying to get a handle on how to proceed in a reasonable manner should something like this crop up again in the future.

Mary

Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 1999 - 8:24 am:

A. Yes for a minimum of 6 hours or until two good bowel movement occur.

B. No feed at all.

C. The problem is not all impactions can be palpated early on and they may not be constantly painful. For instance impactions at the diaphramatic or sternal flexures and at the junction of the ascending and descending colon would not be palpable early. So I always recommend waiting till two good stools before starting back feeding.

D. He will only not eat while painful or sick.

E. Yes. One of the big problems with impactions is the horse quits drinking.

F. Anytime I think a horse has a large bowel impaction and is not drinking at least five to eight gallons of water a day I intervene. If there are no signs of dehydration I tube water in 4 times daily. I usually include small amounts of electrolytes and oil. If there are signs of dehydration I begin IV fluids.
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 31, 1999 - 10:47 pm:

Mary, et. al.

The horse with the gurgle in his throat is eating now but still having a little trouble swallowing, at times. His temp went up over the weekend while I was gone but a little bute and he was back eating, drinking, no temp. Vet was going to scope him (3')and then do some blood work if we didn't find anything but he's been 99% better the past two days. This is another mystery. I'm guessing an abcess in his throat or vet says dryland distemper will act this way if it's way deep inside it may not come out visually. I really think it's in his throat, though, because of the noise he makes. Vet says she recently had a case with a tumor in the throat that finally grew so large the horse couldn't eat. No temp though. Found tumor in autopsy.

Any ideas? I've gone 25-30 years with minimal problems and now in just a few months it's been incredible!

Pam N.

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 1, 1999 - 7:54 am:

Pam, why consider the worse when your horse is improving so remarkably? The recurrent transient fever episodes that are so bute responsive (I assume you are not using antibiotics) are what you would expect with a virus. Sounds like Mick time to me.
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 1, 1999 - 11:53 am:

Dr. O

Thanks for the encouragement. It's just that I keep thinking he's better and then the fever spikes. I just don't want him to suffer; no he's not on antibiotics. Didn't think a virus would last this long--almost two weeks--but as long as he's eating and seems to feel o.k. I guess I'll just play the waiting game. Sure is a funny gargle/gagging sound he makes sometimes.

Pam N.

Posted on Friday, Sep 3, 1999 - 10:55 pm:

Dr. O
I am a newcomer to the site. It is extremely informative. Thank you for making this available to us.
I to have a problem like Mary and Pam have described. I recently purchased a 6 yr old App stud that had a chewing/swallowing problem. the former owner had him on a high grain diet. He was extremely overweight prior to my purchase. When I got him home, his stools imitated a steer on full concentrate feed. His water intake was limited, 4-5 gal/day. He would graze with minimal quidding (spitting of chewed forage) but increased with hay. He will only consume alfalfa, not grass hay. He was leased a month prior to my purchase and the leasee said that the problem was real severe and had him floated. The problem improved but was not eliminated. Conferring with my vet, it was decided to go to the University of Minnesota for a check up/dental exam. Upon oral exam of the mouth, he had points on the bottom 2nd to the last molar on each side. Radiographs showed the molars to be tipped inward and the beginning of wavy mouth. The "U" did an extensive floating/grinding of the molars. Upon bringing him home, the quidding had not improved, and it was suggested that 2 weeks should be given for his tongue to heal. I might note that the vet mention his tongue was covering the molars and they could not be seen, only felt. It has been two weeks and although his water intake has increased to 10-12 gal/day. His chewing situation has not been eliminated.

You mentioned the mild colic, but this has been going on for close to 2 months that can be documented. The breeder that sold him in 12/98 told me that there was no problems at her ranch. Could it be possible that he is suffering from sand colic. I have not read the colic issue yet but will. Or do I need to give the situation more time to work through. The "U" doesn't seem to concerned at this point yet. This has stumped many owners and professionals alike and this is first posting of symptoms exactly like I am experiencing. Your comments??

Posted on Sunday, Sep 5, 1999 - 10:44 am:

Bruce,
Since you not contributing to answering the earlier questions, why don't you start a new forum discussion, so you are not lost at the bottom of two others posting. I really want members to become a little better at starting their own questions on a new discussion rather than sticking it at the bottom of someone elses post. To do this, back up to the this Forum's Topic Page. To do this easily use the navigation bar at the TOP of this frame and click on Forum, then choose: New Discussion. Thanks,
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