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Discussion on Mares falling over when asleep!
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 2, 2006 - 6:09 pm:
My newest observation here on my farm  :
During the summer I noticed that my 10 y.o. mare, twice that I saw, would fall asleep so deeply while standing that she would almost fall over. I'd run outside, she'd come over to me and other then a DrOopy lower lip that horses get when they sleep, she checked out fine. I brought it up to my vet who didn't really know why except maybe she wasn't laying down enough to get a good sleep. No other symptoms of anything. When she started laying down to sleep again, I stopped seeing this with her.
Today, I noticed Grandma (25 y.o.) did it! I peeked a look outside and everyone was napping in the sun. Grandma was standing, eyes closed, square on all 4 feet when her nose started DrOpping to the ground and then her rearend started leaning backwards! I was watching this from the house with my mouth hanging open!  She caught herself; never fell; shook her head and walked over to the hay pile and started eating. I ran outside and she was alert and fine and wanting a treat. This mare hardly ever lays down anymore. She has a hard time getting up due to her arthritis. She's on daily bute (1-2gms daily depending on her attitude) and a joint supplement. I have a third horse, a yearling gelding, who has never done this (that I have seen), but he also loves to lay down to sleep. In all three horses, there is no neurological symptoms of anything.
What is this about? I thought that horses somehow locked their knees/legs for those falling asleep times! I also thought they didn't NEED to lay down. My vet is coming out on Dec 18th for fall shots and check ups (I was late in the spring, so I'm late this fall). Should I have him run some blood to check for anything? I can't imagine there is anything toxic or I would expect more symptoms and something going on with the yearling also....wouldn't I? We all drink the same well water and us humans and the dogs/cats are fine.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 2, 2006 - 6:56 pm:
Kim, if you start worrying about how your horses sleep, you'll drive yourself crazy!
Seriously, it's good to pay attention to your horse's patterns and what is "normal" for them, but I'd be surprised if there's anything wrong medically.
Yes, horses can lock their knees and sleep standing up, but it's been my experience that they much prefer to lie down, at least for a few hours, as long as they feel secure in doing so. (I've been in some pretty stiff arguments about this!) If you come past our farm about 10:30a.m. on any sunny day, it will look like all our horses have been shot where they stood. All will be napping, lying down in the sun...except one horse (as a rule) who will be standing. The standing horse varies, but it is always an older mare.
As to the almost falling down, I have a couple of older mares that sleep so soundly their knees will start to buckle, but they always catch themselves before they fall. I've not had any almost sit down with the back legs starting to give way. I have also had mares heavy in foal that use their head as an "extra leg" and put in on the ground to help support them while sleeping. (This when they are so huge they are uncomfortable getting up and down.)
Don't even start on all the odd noises horses make when sleeping. Just last night my husband, being helpful, went out to do the before bed check of the barn. He came running back in saying I needed to get out there quick and check on one of our geldings. He was sure he was dying. The horse was making a weird noise, breathing unevenly, and didn't seem to notice when Lonnie came into the barn.
Of course, I went out but when I got to the barn and saw which horse it was I just started laughing. This gelding sleeps very soundly, and he was snoring! He did wake up when I called his name and opened his eyes just enough to see if I had any food, then laid back down to sleep some more.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 2, 2006 - 7:29 pm:
LOLOLOLOL Sara! I believe the horses DrOve me nuts about 1.5 years ago (since they came home  ) All these weird little things they do...! Boarding did have it's benefits, LOL! What you said makes total sense because grandma doesn't lay down (maybe once a month) and the 10 y.o. only did it when I noticed she WASN'T laying down (don't know why she stopped doing that for awhile, except maybe it was a hold-over from the 4th of July "explosions" around the house).
I just wanted to double check if anyone else has seen anything like this. My heart ended up in my throat for a second there! Your snoring gelding would probably put me over the edge!
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 9:40 am:
Sarah, had to laugh at your description! We have "shot horses" here sometimes. People who don't know horses think they always sleep standing up, so when they see half a dozen laid out on a hillside they freak!
I figure they just feel safe and comfy.
As to falling down, I have seen older horses start to lose their balance, but never actually saw one fall. They usually wake up in the nick of time.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 12:07 pm:
A humiliating story about sleeping horses: Shortly after I got into horses, I was leaving church with my husband and sister-in-law. On the way out, there's a home with a large pasture and 3 horses. There was a lot of traffic leaving church, people were walking by, lots of commotion. One of the horses was flat out on it's side. I made my husband turn around and park next to the pasture. I hopped out of the car and started to call to the horse, picked grass, clapped my hands...he did not move a whisker or even twitch an ear. I couldn't believe a horse would sleep so soundly with all that commotion going on around him. So, I ran up the driveway & knocked on the door. The owner came to the door in his bathrobe. I explained the situation and he looked at me like I was nuts. Turns out, the horse (of course) was just sleeping soundly, confident in his buddies watching over him - the owner said he always finished up a nap about that time of day and indeed, the horse got back to his feet at about the time my face turned very, very red. I apologized profusely and slunk away...
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 12:26 pm:
I've never accosted a neighbor in his bathrobe, Fran  , but I have been guilty of stopping and looking (watching for ear twitches and breathing) with my own horses and those I've seen in my travels. It's better to be safe than sorry . . . and I have had experience with one of my oldsters sleeping in a hilly pasture with his feet going uphill . . . and he got stuck . . . If it hadn't been for some concerned passers-by, I wouldn't have been able to roll him and get him up. He had decided that it was just too doggone much trouble and was going to just sleep his life away.
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Member:
Oscarvv
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 12:45 pm:
I had a big TB who would almost fall over when sleeping standing up. He was a little over at the knee so I guess that didn't help. I never worried about it. He mostly did it at shows, I think he was extra tired but didn't want to lay down when there was so much going on. He did lay down at night at shows.
Well....I hate to tell this story. But my neighbors horse was way out in the field sleeping about a year ago. He was not close enough for me to tell if he was breathing. After about an hour I took out my zoom lens and didn't see any movement/breathing.
I called my neighbor and we all convened at the sleeping horse, who was unfortunately dead. He had had surgery and things apparently didn't go well.
-B
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 12:49 pm:
After all these years, and knowing my horses pretty well, I still stop and watch them especially if I see one lying down at an odd time of day.
Holly, I never heard of a horse getting stuck in a field! I was keeping some sheep for a friend one time, and looked out one afternoon to see one flat on it's back, all four feet sticking up. I was sure it was dead and while walking to the field, called the owner on my cell phone. Good thing I did as I know nothing about sheep. She informed me that sheep sometimes get "stuck" on their backs by a little hill of grass or some such thing, and won't/can't roll over. This is just what this sheep had done. It's back was up against a little mound of dirt. The other side was just fine, so I don't know why it couldn't roll over to that side, but it wouldn't/couldn't. I had to go out and drag the sheep away from the little mound and roll it over. The owner told me the sheep would never have rolled over on it's own and would have died! so...if in your travels you see sheep lying around with four legs pointing straight up, run over and flip them like you would a turtle; you might save a little fleecy life!
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 3:35 pm:
Thank goodness there are very few sheep around my area or I'd be knocking on LOTS of peoples doors and interrupting their Sunday morning coffee...
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 4:00 pm:
10:30 a.m. is my mare's nap time, too!
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 3, 2006 - 5:38 pm:
It's good to know I'm not alone here! When I had first brought all of them home, I witnessed the same "mass napping". The old lady, before she stopped laying down, would start on her sternum, then reaallllyyy slowly fall over on her side, usually that would start after she planted her nose in the dirt for 10 minutes, head wobbling from side to side.
I have to admit, I watched her like a hawk at my horses nap time today, and she managed to keep herself upright the entire time!
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 9:06 am:
My late 20-something Appy mare does this also. The problem is that she does fall down. When her nose is on the ground she begins to fall backward. She wakes enough to catch herself by throwing her body forward, rolling on to her fetlocks. She has done this so often that she has a permanent scar where she has torn through her skin on her right front fetlock. She keeps reopening this wound. My vet believes she may be narcoleptic (age related?). The problem is that while it looks funny...it scares me terribly. She is old, very arthritic (2 grams bute a day)and hardly every lays down to sleep. When she does it is obvious that she is in pain trying to get up.
My neighbor who can can see her during the day in the pasture tells me the falling is getting worse and I don't know what to do for her.
Carol
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 10:22 am:
Poor old girl. Can you keep her in a well bedded paddock or stall part of the day or at night? This would allow her to lay down more comfortably and sleep, then maybe she wouldn't do it in the field. Also, can you put a wrap around her fetlock to protect it? Do you have her on Consequin or some other supplement? It might help her joints.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 10:33 am:
Oh Carol! I can so relate to the "scare" part. When I saw my mare do this, she looked like she was tranquilized and falling. As I mentioned, she DOES catch herself (so far, knock on wood), but it doesn't make the event any easier to see. Our old mares sound similar in many ways. My mare can't get up anymore when she does lay down. I think I've had to physically help her at least 4 times now (more if you count the times I've went out there and yelled at her enough to make her get up on her own). My biggest fear is someday she's going to do it when I'm at work and I won't find her in time. For your mare, my first thought would be is this area that she keeps reinjuring something that you could pad/wrap so when she lands on it, it's protected?
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 12:06 pm:
Kim/Sara:
She is kept in at night when the weather is wet/cold. But her temperament has always been to be outside so her stall is open to her 24/7. She WILL NOT lay down in her stall.
My vet suggested that I put her in SMB's to help keep her from reinjuring her fetlock (which I have done). She is on a oral joint supplement, but the vet doubts (having done the exams..and stopped before finishing them because of the pain he was causing her)that shots will have much effect as she is full of arthritis, back, hips, legs plus navicular. I think he is just waiting for when she goes down and can't get back up and I can't help her to get up...
I am at work during the day which is when my neighbor sees her falling. I think she feels I am wrong/cruel not to put my girl down.
Its becoming very difficult to keep her feet clean...she shakes so when she has to stand on three and my husband is afraid she will fall on me. (Chey and I are both getting pretty old and I don't think I could hold her up long enough to get out from under her.)
She is such a sweet, funny horse. And once in a while when something (the devil :>)!) gets into her she will trot around the pasture with her head and tail up looking so beautiful (I know...I'm blind to the sway back, etc.) Always so curious and affectionate.
This is just so hard...
Carol
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 12:52 pm:
Carol, not only are our horses similar, so are we! It IS hard and I only hope that I'm not too blind to her situation to make her keep hanging around just for my sake. I don't know if I'm doing right or wrong for her....she's still bright (mostly for food, LOL) and still runs and still eats and interacts with her herd, so my feeling right now is to just leave it be and keep up with her extra care. I hope she'll make that decision for me when the time comes.
My mare also has trouble with the farrier-my vet suggested giving her 2gm of banamine orally INSTEAD of her bute at least 3 hrs before the farrier comes. So, on the day he comes, I substitute the banamine for the bute in the am and then for dinner, she goes back to her bute. I have found this has helped her immensely when it comes to having to hold her front feet up. He also uses a "sling" that cradles her leg and holds it up on a straight angle instead of in between his knees and this also helps greatly with reducing the twisting of the joint. He also bevels her front hooves to make her break over better.
I certainly will be thinking of you and your beloved mare. I think we'll both "know" when it's time to say our goodbyes. I firmly believe she will let me know, either with her attitude or her eyes. And I'm always watching....
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 1:46 pm:
Kim: Thanks. It helps to know that others are going through the same terrible heart breaking thought process. Like you, I watch my girl everyday. We talk every morning during breakfast about our aching bones, and commiserate every night at dinner about our tough day!
Also during the course of this discussion it occurred to me that with winter comes ice and slippery conditions in the pasture. Just one more thing to worry about!!
I'll suggest the banamine to my vet. I can't see where he would object to that idea. You say your farrier has a sling? Is this a self-made aid or did he get it somewhere? If he found it somewhere on line I could send that info to my farrier.
At this point we only have the two mares still at home. In the spring the young one will be going south to live and be loved by a young family (my daughter has outgrown her and she still has many years of good working life ahead of her). Now I worry that once my girl is alone in the barn, will she give up?
Sara: I didn't say thank you for your excellent suggestions. Her stall has mats and we put down 6 inches of fluffy shavings, but she still will not lie down to rest. I appreciate your concern for my girl.
Carol
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 1:50 pm:
Kim: When your vet comes out can you let me know what he thinks is the problem? Knees not locking...too deep a sleep --because of old age? Is there something that can be done?
Thanks.
Carol
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 2:40 pm:
Carol (& Kim) I sympathize with your plight. I, too, have a couple of older mares, two in particular, that I am so in love with; it will be extremely difficult when their time comes. I think you will both know when it's time to "let your mares go." They tell us. I was very lucky with my old gelding. It had an aneurism one morning, and died almost instantly. I can only hope death will be so kind to these old girls.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 2:49 pm:
btw - Our farrier has a little stand with a "hammock" of heavy canvas that supports the hoof. Although it adjusts, my arthritic mare's knee is so stiff he can't bend it enough to fit even the lowest adjustment, so he balances her hoof on the toe of his boot when he trims. Obviously, he trusts her a lot. I think he made his stand (he's pretty handy that way.) It looks pretty easy to make. A heavy round base with two straight pieces that lock at different heights, and a "y" forked piece on the top straight piece which holds the canvass.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 3:19 pm:
Carol and Sara, that's exactly what my farrier uses, thanks for describing it so well! I think he bought his-it uses the sling and he can interchange it with other parts onto the stand.
Carol, I will certainly ask my vet, he's away at a vet convention now, but he's coming out for fall shots on the 18th. I wanted to mention that I'm relying heavily on him with my decision-making process regarding Grandma. He doesn't feel it's time to call it quits yet-our little joke, if you will, is that when he's run out of things to bill me for, it'll be time (we've known eachother for years, so he knows how to make things lighthearted for me)! He did talk about doing joint injections but I've kinda held off on that for right now because a) it's very invasive and b)I don't think it'll do much seeing as though she is bone-on-bone in both knees. I find myself grinning Carol, as I too have my mind on my mare more then usual today---I have to wet her hay because of her heaves and my only thought all day has been if she'll slip and fall on the ice the hay will make on the ground!
Sara, I'm so with you! The only thing I know for SURE that I won't be able to do or handle would be making "the appointment" to have her euthanized. That would be way harder on me then just coming home and finding her down or getting that sense from her and having the vet out that day.
I have a tattoo of my mare, believe it or not! I'll post a picture if you are interested!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 3:41 pm:
Kim, would love to see it!
(You can tell my mind isn't on the spreedsheet I'm suposed to be working on!)
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 4:01 pm:
Kim,
I would love to see that picture as well. (Oh this discussion has been with me mind and heart all day).
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Member:
Jockyrdg
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 4:43 pm:
Hi Kim; I've seen two things which might help in the winter. The SMB's are already protecting her fetlocks, but if you ever need to change out of them , we've had success with the old style gum bell boot. Pull it on, and instead of having it lie on top of the hoof, just flip it up so it makes a skirt around the fetlock. And while hay and shavings will make the ice last longer, it does provide traction. We would make a path with sand, dirty shavings or refused hay, so the guys could manuver safely. They don't move much in the winter and are pretty sensible about where they walk. Any arial view will confirm all our horses have their "paths" that they walk, those are the paths that we put a substance for friction down. Yes, spring is a mess, but easier to pick up than a downed horse. Good luck with your girl. Getting old isn't fun for anyone.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 7:03 pm:
I LOVE those ideas for traction! Thanks! And yes getting old DOES stink!! My very good friend had sold her old gelding that she owned for 14 years because she was afraid to watch him get old! I can totally relate to that now. one thing I didn't mention this morning, because I thought it was a fluke, was her grandson, Mr. Domineering Idiot, has finally topped the old girl in the pecking order. I had been watching him challenge her at hay piles for the last couple months, but this morning and tonight, I watched her rapidly leave a pile when she saw him coming. That kills me. She has always been the Queen. Her 10 y.o. daughter still moves plenty fast enough when grandma wants though. I'm probably gonna have to start stalling him at night so she can have free run. Or something.
Carol, ME TOO! Depressing yet nice to know we're not all alone with our thoughts and worries! I'd rather not have to be worrying about it at all, LOL, but here we are. I didn't work much today either....oooops
ANYWAY, I got this tattoo last February as kind of a testement to my devotion to this mare. She was the one that brought me back from a really bad horse experience and taught me that, if I listen, I'll hear, and if I respond with calm and quiet, I'll receive calm and quiet in return. The verse is from Psalm 91 and Maude is next to it as my Guardian Angel. Cause that's really what she's always been
I'm putting a link in because it's too large to attach...if I shrink it, you won't be able to see it!
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/TWHGAIT/tat.jpg
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 7:12 pm:
Oh, here SHE is too, June, 2005! I'm planning on going back to add her black points and MAYBE get my other mare on the other side. It's true what they say about tattoos; once you get one you just can't stop
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/TWHGAIT/PDR_0077.jpg
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 7:42 pm:
Kim...love the tattoo. Didn't it hurt? I really appreciate the thoughts behind it. My old girl, Beaulimazar aka Miss Piggy, has been what's kept me going when I was so ill and when I've had real "down spells" due to parenting my elderly parents. My husband is wonderful and really helpful and loving...but, there's just something about the bond with your favorite horse. Before Beau, I had a wonderful guy, my very first Arabian, named Kellee. He was there and helped me get through a difficult divorce. I'd have gone nuts without him.
IMO selling an older horse because you don't want to watch it get old and die is a "chicken-s--t" way of coping with life. I'm sure glad no one has dumped me because I'm getting old and stiff!! The person who "dumps" an older horse is being very selfish and isn't caring about whether the older horse is properly cared for or not. We're not talking about an old car here!!
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 8:04 pm:
Isn't that bond amazing? I'm so glad you have them and your husband and they have you I'd love to have you in MY corner! I've been following Libby and I am amazed at your tenacity and strength thru all that. My husband is very supportive of my horse habit and the horses, but he never did or probably will understand how connected you get to them.
I was pretty upset with my friend too. What really killed me was when she bought an older 2nd and 3rd horse after that! I could never, ever, sell or give-away Maude, ever. I owe her the world and the world she will get! I hate watching the changes in her, each little decline is another heartbreak all over again, but I can't imagine NOT being with her to get her thru it.
On the tattoo, yes, the mane and tail hurt alot, but really you get used to it after about 10 mins. I think I sat for that whole thing for about an 1 1/2hrs. I took my friend with me who trains my horses so she could hold my hand (AND tell the tattoo guy how to make a horse a bay, LOL)!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 4, 2006 - 9:41 pm:
You're a lot braver than I am!! I could go with one of those temp. ones that wear off.
It is sad and difficult to watch our old friends get older. But, as long as they are relatively comfortable and seem happy, I think that is all we can ask. I don't believe they have the same feelings about getting old that we do. I think they just take and live one day at a time. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from them!
I am also watching my parents get old and "go down hill." The horses are much more graceful about it, and seem to seize each moment they are given. I find my parents (in their 90's) to be much more depressing over all.
Today my old mare, Beau, and her best friend my crippled up arthritic old show mare, were roaming around the property "wild and free." They are such a kick to watch. The crippled mare, Maarissa, runs around and bucks and kicks right in front of the horses stuck in their pens. She really limps later on, but I can tell it's worth the soreness to flaunt her freedom!
Beau follows me around when I'm outside, her nose in everything I'm doing, then when I come in she joins Maarissa. How much joy they both give me.
Like your husband, mine is very supportive and understanding, and never says a word although I'm sure he feels I spend way to much on the horses, both time and money. He does seem to understand the bond thing however. (He's been known to say he'd never say "It's me or the horses" because he's afraid of the response he'd get!)
Beverly, I love the idea of the gum bell boots. I've been searching for something to use on one of our boarders, a 27 yr. old retired endurance horse, who's getting sores on the fronts of his front fetlocks. I've never thought of it, but bet those bell boots would work on him. If not, maybe a smaller size of the velcro closing ones put on above the fetlock.
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 5, 2006 - 9:54 am:
Beverly:
The bell boots sound like a great idea! I've been concerned that wearing the SMB's all the time would reduce Chey's ability to support herself without them. (I'm probably really wrong about that!) So I'll give the bell boots a try. And my husband won't be happy...but this year we ARE going to spread used shavings in the paths to help with traction.
Kim:
I loved the tatoo...but I think the time is past for me to get into body art.
Sara/Kim:
I agree with you on keeping our animals close to us as they grow old. I can't imagine sending Chey away at this point...who else would listen to me grouse without getting tired of me? LOL
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 5, 2006 - 7:51 pm:
Sara, I love your thoughts on horses aging. I agree. I don't think that it's as huge a deal for them as it is for us. They adjust and adapt while we fret! I work in a hospital and it can be so draining, being supportive to the patients when I really think sometimes they won't even support themselves. Sorry about your parents; it can be hard and it sounds like you are the primary person to care for them.
Carol, you're never TOO old, LOL! I got my first one at 40.....my husband says it was my version of a midlife crisis, but it was really always on my mind to do! I'm laughing about Chey, Beau and Maarissa!! Maude will follow me and let me cry into her fur as long as I'm pumping treats out every few minutes! She's never, ever been much of a people horse. Her daughter is really "my" horse (she a pocket pony and loves any attention she can get). Honestly, when I met Maude 11 years ago, I didn't know how we'd get along. But, I've grown to appreciate her stand-offishness and she's grown to tolerate my teaching her to give kisses!!
Can you both post pictures of your old mares? I'd love to see them!
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Member:
Ilona
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 5, 2006 - 8:44 pm:
Thank you all for a wonderful thread. I have 2 horses approaching their senior years, and could not imagine parting with them. Its akin to abandonment, and I feel so fortunate to have their display of dignity in my daily life. They teach my other horses so much and their quirks become more endearing to me.
This is going to be my first real winter experience so I am soaking up all your knowledge and experience and hopefully will put it to good use.
I love the tattoo, I'm just not brave enough to get one, I avert any suggestion of pain, I'm so chicken.
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 10:06 am:
Chey can also be "standoffish". My daughter swears that she doesn't like her...I think she's just a one person horse. I love her inquisitivness...her nose has to be in EVERYTHING that's going on. Like Beau she follows me everywhere. I'll try to upload a picture.
I didn't get my first horse until I was 57 (that's when I started riding again after 40 years layoff). You can see that she's pretty worn out. She was used as a reining horse and the arthritis in her back and joints are evidence of hard use. This is my old girl. 
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 10:39 am:
Carol, I love her! I'll try and get some pictures today and post them. It's a beautiful day and supposed to be mild, so I'll be taking blankets off.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 2:27 pm:
Carol, Chey looks great! I really like her face, she looks like a sweet girl!
Sara, I'll be sure to check back; I'd love to see them!
Ilona, the thread has helped me alot too! I'm glad I'm in good company here Honestly, the tattoo didn't hurt that much!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 6:10 pm:
Here's my two old girls dozing in the late afternoon. Maarissa is the one in the back; Beau is the short, fuzzy, "plump" one in the front.
Why do I have such a hard time shrinking to the right size to post? I am using Photoshop 4.0. Do any of you use this? If so, how do you shrink and still have a picture big enough to see?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 6:32 pm:
If any of you would like to see more of my girls and some of the other horse pictures I ran out and took this afternoon, go to:
https://new.photos.yahoo.com/mrosearabs/album
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 - 11:51 pm:
You all have inspired me to take a picture of my 24 year old mare. I only have the young pictures. I must say . . . if I could keep her half as plump as Sara's girls.
My poor ol girl has always been lean and probably always will be. It was fine when she was young and had the muscling on her top line, now all she has is a big old belly hanging down and about half way up the ribs start and then it just gets worse from there. I compare her to those little old ladys that just get old and thin.
She is also one of those that is cranky all the time. If she acts sweet at all, I get out the thermometer on check for something wrong. Of course as with the cranky ones . . . . they never get sick !
She is my jewel and always will be.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 8:46 am:
Sara, I couldn't get to your photos last night, but saw them fine this morning. Maybe everyone on HA was looking at them at the same time. Thanks for sharing. Looks really sunny where you are . . . sunny and warm. Hope so. We are having some cold wind and wind chills today, but at least the sun is out . . . The horses and I need that sunshine.
Shelley, I hope you'll post a pic of your cranky old jewel, too.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 9:53 am:
Love the pictures Sara! I couldn't get to them yesterday either, but no problem this morning. You have a beautiful horse family!
Shelley, looking forward to seeing your girl!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 11:13 am:
Holly, I think you're getting all that cold air we had a few days ago. It's been up to the low 50's by mid afternoon. I'm enjoying it while it lasts....which won't be long.
I do have a beautiful horse family. They are all special in their own way. I'm fast becoming a care taker at a horse retirement home, however. Most of mine are starting to get old. I still have a couple of young ones, but my mares are all aging, and my two boarders are old, too. Oh, well....so am I!
Looking forward to seeing your pictures, Shelley.
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Member:
Zarr
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 1:03 pm:
The peace and contentment on their faces speaks volumes, well done Sara ! Cindy ps thank you for the hope that the sun is still out there have not seen it in 3 weeks!!
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 5:43 pm:
Here is my old girl, as you can see she is not aging well. But I was happy to see her dirty which means she had a good roll and maybe snoozed a bit in the arena.
I need to show you one of the few old jumping pictures I have of her. Not sure where it is.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 7:02 pm:
Awwwww, Shelley. She's got it made in the shade. My vet here says that older horses get 10-20% less nutrition from their food . . . Does she get oil? TB?
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 7:57 pm:
Here is an old photo, I think it is at least 10 years ago. She was much happier in those days. A girl needs goals you know, and her's was to fly.
and yes she does get oil and grain, it is easy for me since I have to give it to my gelding anyway. I think her biggest problem is an ongoing uterus infection. I have had it cultured and treated so many times and it always comes back. I was told my only other alternative is a hysterectomy which I am not going to put her through. I am sure it will shorten her life ultimately but right now I just treat her like a queen.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 8:30 pm:
Wow, Shelley! And is that you on her? I guess she did want to fly! I think their weight depends some on the breed. Most Arabians are easy keepers & mine make outdo themselves at being that. Aside from being able to see her ribs, she looks healthy; has a nice sheen to her winter coat and looks content.
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 8:30 pm:
Shelly it sounds like you do treat her like a queen. She must have been something in her day. Sometimes making there life while they are with us as wonderful as you can is enough. I agree with not going through the surgery. As long as she is happy and it sounds like she has plenty of love. Sara youre horses are so cute they also must have been something to see in there younger days. Actually they still are, they look the picture of health.
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 9:14 pm:
Yeah that was me, but to be honest, she was so safe and honest anyone could have jumped her. The good thing is that my other horses are easy keepers. I think they will do a better job of growing old.
Sara . . ? how old are your girls ? and what is TB?
Is that what you give them?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 10:49 pm:
Maarissa is 17 or 18...I'd have to look at her papers to be sure. She's the one that tore up her knee and had surgery when she was 10 or so. Beau (aka Miss Piggy) is 24. She's the one I rode everywhere and through everything, and a great brood mare to boot.
TB meant Throughbred. Guess I should have used some periods in there.
I board a retired endurance gelding, Arab, age 28, that can still trot out like a son-of-a-gun (his owner has poor health and can no longer ride)and a 18 yr. old Oldenberg cross mare (owner sick and can't ride pay her board) and have several other "getting up theres" of my own. I still ride Beau, and Kameela(age 5) the two boys (both in early teens) my sister-in-laws paint(age5) and have a 3yr old gelding we're just starting. Then there's the old cats, the stray cats, our dog, old neighbor's dog....and..."getting up there" me.
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 11:16 pm:
My old mare is 1/2 TB and 1/2 WB, but the WB was a very TB type Hanovarian stallion with a lot of energy.
Sounds like you have the whole spectrum of age Sara. We have been lucky here so far, as a general rule my animals tend to live long.
My two 70 lb dogs (brother and sister) lived to 16. I have a goat that is about 15. My barn cat is somewhere over 20, nobody know for sure cause we got her 19 years ago as a full grow albeit young cat. I keep thinking she wont make it for another season and this last summer she actually improved some. Everyone else around here is pretty youthful, so it is not too depressing.
It is nice to pay homage to the old ones as they tend to get lost in the background sometimes.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 7, 2006 - 11:52 pm:
True. And they are so special. Each of my old horses has contributed so much - in the show ring, as a broodmare, a great trail horse, sometimes a combination of these, and above all each has contributed to my life. And, not only the horses, each of the "four footeds" has contributed. Many of my best friends, from the time I was very little, have been the animals.
Hearing strains of the theme from Dr. Doolittle here?
I don't mean to be maudling, but I do feel the bond of trust developed between and caring owner and an animal is very special, and I feel that we who work with and are around our animals all the time are so lucky. I have learned so much about life, about myself, about others, (let alone all the science and other necessary stuff you learn.) The learning I got from each of them has carried over into other phases of my life; ie. work, raising children, dealing with my elderly parents.
Remember that book "All I Ever Needed to Know I Learned From My Cat?" I never read it, but always thought the title rang kind of true.
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Member:
Caroltd
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Posted on Friday, Dec 8, 2006 - 10:11 am:
Shelly, OH WOW...she must have been spectacular! It is really hard to watch them lose weight. My girl starts to DrOp during the winter..even with extra hay and beet pulp.
Sara: I love your girls. I just want to put my face and hands on that fuzzy coat and hug it! They look like they are "very" well cared for and loved much.
Kim: I love her color...in the picture it almost looks like cinnamon.
Sara/Kim: What do you do in the winter when the temperatures DrOp below freezing...here it sometimes gets down to 20-25 below or more. Because Chey is well into her 20's (might even be 30's) I have put a blanket on her even though she gets her winter coat (its not real thick..I think that may be the Arabian in her), but I wonder if I should do it before the real cold hits?
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Member:
Sswiley
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Posted on Friday, Dec 8, 2006 - 10:30 am:
Its funny how different things are here in CA. My mare looses weight in the summers when we get several days over 100. Winter is her recovery period because I can blanket her and get her in away from the rain which is the only thing that gets them very cold.
She is out 24/7 unless its nasty, then she gets her stall which she LOVES. It was her foaling stall, she can sniff noses with the other horse,her offspring, when they come up for shelter and she wistfully looks out the back down the vally. Not sure if she is remembering her foaling days(she was very nurturing) or she just likes to look down the vally.
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Member:
Twhgait
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Posted on Friday, Dec 8, 2006 - 3:17 pm:
Carol, I don't do anything special for Maude...as long as she has a good coat (she does, she looks like a wholly mammoth right now!), free choice hay and a shelter to get out of the wind/snow, she does fine. We are currently in a cold snap of low teens to zero at night..I'm watching all three of mine, but so far they all seem fine. I watch to see if anyone starts shivering and I do have blankets for everyone if needed. I have never blanketed unless I've had to (and I've only had to once). Cinnamon is a great way to describe that color of hers! I never thought of that...I always just called her a "light bay", whatever that really means!
Shelly, your mare is awesome! Reminds me why I don't jump! Seriously, she looks great!
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 8, 2006 - 7:51 pm:
Carol, I do blanket at night and when the temps are really cold or it's wet and windy, during the day. When we lived in Truckee, Ca our night time temps were sometimes down to 40 below. The horses were all blanketed with heavy blankets and shut in at night. They did great. The biggest worry was making sure they all had water that hadn't frozen, as sometimes even with heaters the water would freeze.
I think I blanket as much out of habit as anything. The two older horses I board don't have blankets. They get fed a lot of good quality hay and have shelter from wind and wet, and heated water. They do fine.
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Member:
caroltd
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 9:09 am:
I'm opening discussion again to ask if you all have read the latest issue of Equus Magazine? They have an article on "sleep deprivation" in horses. The pictures just stunned me. They are exactly what Chey does!! Now I don't know what to do for her. And I'm not sure why she would be afraid to lay down.
Is this what your girls do as well?
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 12:10 pm:
Oh my! That's what Maude does too....Maude never lays down because she can't get back up.
Carol, I don't know if you came across my other thread, but Maude is falling down now when she does this...she also can't get back up on her own, so we are in a situation too.
If you go to Equisearch.com, you can see the videos of these horses falling asleep standing....that's my Maude to a "T".
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 29, 2007 - 5:16 pm:
I'm just at a loss.
Maude must have went down again during the night....went out to feed this morning and she was very badly scraped up and swollen, obviously not her normal self, which prompted me to look more closely at her and find the injuries.
Her left eye is swollen (better now), her left front leg "elbow" is swollen and scraped, her shoulder is swollen, her left hind leg took the worst of it, with about 5 different areas where she rubbed large patches of skin off just enough to leave no hair and it looks awful, her hock is swollen. Her vulva was hugely swollen on the left and there's white stuff dripping out of it (this has also improved over the day-still swollen though). She's short-striding on the left hind (understandable) and she didn't want anything to do with grain this morning, although she's picking at her hay.
I gave her a healthy dose of banamine (all these meds I give her have GOT to be killing her stomach) and put ointment on all the scrapes. And cold hosing. I went back out to check her an hour later and thruout the day and she's looking a little better, but still pretty stiff and swollen.
The last time she went down at night (3-ish weeks ago), she also got herself up, but with much less damage then she did this time. Silly me was getting hopeful that she was figuring out how to get up without too much trouble.
I started negotiating with myself a few months ago that the next time she went down and wouldn't get up, I would call the vet and have her euthanized (maybe she heard me and that's why she's suddenly able to get up on her own??). I'm starting to feel like this is totally unfair to keep putting her thru....for over a year now, she can't lay down to sleep cause she knows she can't get back up....she never sleeps and she then falls over when she lets herself doze too much while standing.....then we have the trauma that follows the fall. She's also hurt herself just from "catching" herself. I had to get stitches in her eyelid at the beginning of June and I've had to treat numerus scraps to her front legs. And lets not forget the bone-on-bone arthritis that is ALWAYS there, probably aching. But she's never lame, she still loves her treats and food.
I know we've gone thru this conversation before as a group, both with me and others. That for me, was about a year ago and look! She's made it thru, as happy as Maude gets (which isn't much, LOL!)! I know you're not going to tell me what to do. I know nobody can tell me that except me and Maude. But I'm sitting here pondering the same old question again. When is it "enough". When do I call it? She's never been "unhappy" or seemed like she could care less if she lived or died. There's never been "the look" in her eyes that says she's just not enjoying herself anymore. There has never been a clear "OK Mom, I'm ready to be let go of".
If the death of my 21 month old Legs death taught me anything, it is that I'm not afraid of the act of euthanasia (it was my first time being there for the act itself and I still remember like it was yesterday how peaceful it was and how peaceful he finally looked at the end), I'm more afraid of having to deal with my own loss. I think that's what keeps me waiting and waiting. I don't know if I can put myself thru that twice in one year. But I have been in that mode of thinking "this has gone on long enough".
This is the worst she's done to herself since that very first night we found her down and struggling (last June, 3am, also remember it like it was yesterday). Once we got her treated and her chronic pain under control, I feel like we gave her this additional 13 months. Now it feels like she's slipping back down again. God knows I don't want her to suffer like she did last night. But I feel like unless I finally move on this, that's exactly what will keep happening. She may have done some serious damage to her left hind leg that may never get better. She may very well answer this question on her own...I don't know.....
Thank you for listening. I'm just unsure and thinking outloud. Writing it out helps, although not with the actual decision.
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 29, 2007 - 8:57 pm:
OK, I just figured out what happened.
Imagine you are looking at your feet
To your left is a big tree/truck
To the immediate right of the tree is a flat rock with some sharpened edges to it.
This is what Maude musta fell on. Her butt to the tree (which caused the injury to her bottom) and the rock to her stifle/hock (which skinned her leg).
I don't think she could have found a worse place to fall over.
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