This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse »
  Discussion on Mare experiencing lameness
Author Message
New Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 12:46 pm:

I have a six year old registered quarter horse mare w/ Impressive bloodlines. She is experiencing pain in her right foreleg and will not place much weight on this leg. Could it be a bruised frog or something worse. She seems to do better in soft footing such as an arena or her stall. She does even better when splint boots are placed on her that protect her pasterns. Could overreaching be the problem?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 29, 2006 - 6:27 am:

Hello Amanda,
Unfortunately your post does not give us a clue as to why your horse might be lame and there are hundreds of possibilities on the list. The article associated with this forum explains how to examine a horse with a goal of localizing and diagnosing the cause. Since you already know which leg it is you can skip down to "Where in the Leg" which discusses the examination of the leg. Study it and you may be able to get a bit closer to the cause.

A horse that is nearly non-weight bearing on a leg should have professional help quickly as the horse is suffering while this lame and the opposite good leg can be damaged from being over stressed.
DrO
New Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Friday, Dec 29, 2006 - 3:35 pm:

Should there be an obvious reaction to betadine being applied to the area around the frog of the hoof? She does not want me to pick her hoof back up now and she usually is okay with it. I know that she currently is shedding her frog. Could she be experiencing tenderness from this? She is Grade 4 with her lameness. She won't allow enough weight to be placed on the right front leg in order to hold the left leg off of the ground. She will place weight onto the right leg, but often rests it in front of her.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Dec 30, 2006 - 11:06 am:

These are not specific signs of any particular lameness Amanda and the shedding of the from not likely to cause lameness. Unless you can accurately identify the cause Amanda, and if the lameness persists she will need a good exam by a veterinarian.
DrO
New Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Saturday, Dec 30, 2006 - 9:42 pm:

I really have no idea what is going on with this mare. We hopefully will be taking her to the vet on Friday. She isn't experiencing any heat. She has a little thrush in her hoof. I wrapped her leg from the hoof to her knee and she seems to be placing more weight on it today. We are giving her bute once in the morning and once at night. I have felt her leg several times searching for any heat and have not found any. I read the article on thrush, but am still not exactly sure how to tell if there is soft tissue exposed or damaged from it. When I palpate her lower leg, in between the knee and pastern, almost in the middle, I feel two small knots. Are these normal?
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Saturday, Dec 30, 2006 - 10:18 pm:

What is the mare's reaction when you put pressure on the knots? Are they ON the cannon bone or behind by the tendons? If ON the cannon, they may be splints, and if they are new, there may be some flinching from the mare. Old splints are unsightly, but not a source of pain, as far as I know.
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Sunday, Dec 31, 2006 - 1:41 am:

Thank you for suggesting this. When I put pressure, she flinches and looks at me like, "ouch that hurts." They seem to be on the medial (inside) splint bone. I know that most Veterinarians recommend rest on soft ground for thirty days in order for the splints to heal. She does seem to do a lot better on softer ground than she does on harder ground.
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Monday, Jan 1, 2007 - 10:28 pm:

Since I have been treating this mare for splints. She has become only Grade 1 lame at the most. I put her in the round pen just to allow her to walk around some b/c she likes to get out of the barn and I knew the round pen was soft. I was lunging a gelding nearby her pen, when she decided that she wanted to work out too. She is one who absolutely loves to work and it depresses her when she can't. She was rearing and bucking and kicking up her heels and having a great time. A little while later, a four-wheeler went by on the road and she went back to rearing and bucking and just having fun. She got the spark back in her eye. The only thing I am concerned about is that the bute is causing her to have very loose stools. Is there anything I can do about this? I don't want to rest her for too short of an amount of time. Is thirty days the recommended time?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 7:06 am:

Amanda, we give a treatment plan including rest time for healing splints at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Lower Limb » Diseases of the Splint Bones. If the phenylbutazone is causing diarrhea, I would discontinue its use. For more on diarrhea and bute see Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Phenylbutazone (Bute)
DrO
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 3, 2007 - 1:37 pm:

We have discontinued using Bute as of yesterday. I put some linament on her legs which helped her some also. Thanks for all of your help!
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 12:59 am:

We took my mare to the vet today. First, her hooves were cleaned thoroughly and checked for any hollow sounds. Nothing was found wrong with her hooves. A flex test was performed on her fetlock joint. As I trotted off w/ the mare, she became very lame on her right foreleg. We knew then where the problem was. Nerve blocks were administered below the fetlock joint. After a few minutes of walking it in, a probe was used to test if enough block had been administered. Another shot was administered and walked in. Then a flex test was performed and I trotted off with the mare. Some improvement was shown, but very little. Then nerve blocks were administered above the fetlock joint and walked in. A flex test was performed and the mare was trotted off. More improvement was shown, but still very little. Now, onward to the radiographs. Four radiographs were performed: one from the lateromedial view (right side), one from the dorsopalmar view (back of the leg), and one from both front diagonals. (correct me if i'm wrong on these Cyndy please) The x-rays showed no abnormalities. The only answer we have come up with is to place bar shoes on her in order to take the some of the weight/strain/pressure off of the fetlock joint. If this does not work, we will try medications for the fetlock joint. It's frustrating and emotionally draining to watch this soul that you love so dearly and is so close to your heart suffer in pain, because she cannot speak to you and tell you what is wrong. I was hoping today to get an answer and a solution to the problem. We came up kind of empty. She has thrown no heat with this. Her lameness is shown more on hard ground like I have said before, which we are hoping will be solved by the bar shoes. Again I ask the question which no one seems to want to give me an answer to, Can overreaching play any part in the strain on this joint? If anyone has any suggestions, please give them!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 7:20 am:

Hold on here Amanda came up empty? You have worlds more information than you did before! They blocked both above and below the fetlock and there was little improvement in the lameness? There are only 2 explanations:
1) the lameness is further up the leg
2) the blocks were not performed well

If they were carefully tested and found to be good blocks, until proved differently you have a problem above the fetlock. Why did the exam stop here?
DrO
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 12:31 pm:

It is a smaller veterinary clinic and we had to wait on the radiographs to be developed. So, we traveled home to wait on the results. We were told to try the bar shoes to see if that helped her, and if not, we would try something else.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 6:36 pm:

Did I misunderstand there was little improvement following the block above the fetlock?
DrO
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 6:53 pm:

Their was little improvement with the block below or above the fetlock joint. He did not block behind the fetlock or make a radiograph of the back of the fetlock. This is where he feels the pain may be.
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 7:01 pm:

Dr.O,
We have an appointment to have bar shoes put on Monday. Dr Woods felt that should be done regardless of what else gets done. She has also been on a loading dose of Midaplex;Glucosamine chonDrOytin (SP?) carrot flavored wafers for joints and tendons. My other mare Tuffy has been on them for years and they have made a HUGE difference in her range of motion and comfort. Dr. Woods felt that it could probably not hurt her and may even help. The only other consideration is that we understand ChonDrOytin is not well tolerated in some horses and there are digestion problems. What should we be watching for to know if she falls into that small percentage?
Member:
Juliem

Posted on Saturday, Jan 6, 2007 - 12:54 am:

Amanda, personally, I'd wait on applying bar shoes until you have a diagnosis. It seems your vet as reached for the old standby-bar shoes--because he has no other suggestions. Bar shoes are not the great panacea for everything, not even all the things they are supposed to help. Learn about the mechanics of the hoof and how it works in conjunction with all structures of the foot and leg and you'll understand my reluctance to put them on, especially when you don't have a diagnosis. I question whether they are going to help and I'm not positive they won't be detrimental, since your vet doesn't know what condition he's treating! Hopefully Dr. O will give us his opinion before Monday. Can you postpone the farrier appointment until you have more information? Is your mare shod now? Good luck and keep learning! Julie
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Saturday, Jan 6, 2007 - 1:49 am:

She isn't currently shod. She had shoes on, but we've had them off for about a month now. The farrier we were using was not sizing them to fit her hooves and I felt the shoes were too narrow. We are having an actual blacksmith come on Monday. Maybe postponing would be a better idea. I'm not sure. We were told by the vet that the bar shoes would raise her heel and take some of the pressure off of her fetlock joint. Is this not the case? Of course like you said we don't know for sure what we are treating. She has Impressive bloodlines, which are known for the feet being too narrow. We felt her front feet needed to widen so we took the shoes off. Could her problem be that she just needs well fitting shoes?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 6, 2007 - 10:04 pm:

Didn't block the back of the fetlock? Now I AM confused, this does not make any sense. You might leave out the small nerves in the front but if you don't get all 4 back nerves you have not blocked the fetlock at all. Radiographs don't just take fronts and backs but go all the way through, And if it is not blocked why does he think the lamenesses is coming from there? Many sound horses flex lame, it is a nonspecific sign as explained in the article I reference above.

I have to agree with Julies summation of the case and bar shoes, as we understand it from these post but disagree with her recommendations. All we know about this case is what you have told us and the information seems, please forgive me Amanda, confused. Instead of just rescheduling I implore you discuss this with your vet. Perhaps you have missed something and not relayed it here so we have an incomplete understanding?

If the vet agrees this is just a "do something" until something better shows up, postpone it and get that lameness localized with more assuredness than seems to be present at this time. Again reread the article on Lameness Localization and Diagnosis. We can get these straightened out but the exam has to be orderly to generate accurate information and this is not what you describe above.
DrO
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 9:43 am:

DrO,
You are no more confused than we are.Honey had a bad day yesterday, clearly uncomfortable and not the mare we had 4 days ago. We are replacing the blacksmith appointment tomorrow with another vet visit, different vet. I spoke to the treating vet yesterday, and told him we were reluctant to treat w/o a dx (IMO bar-shoes is a form of tx)and he suggested we give her the bute again. Amanda is not crazy about the idea, nor am I d/t the diarrhea. He offered that we don't know for sure that the Bute was the source of the diarrhea, yet it was the only variable. My 6th sense also tells me that it is time for a blood draw. While she is in good flesh, she has lost weight and is generally depressed. He gave me a bottle of banamine, but neglected to tell me that it hade to be administered IV rather than IM. I am not about to mess with trying to hit a vein, WAY outside my comfort zone. Any other suggestions to get her feeling better til we can get her to Dr. Anderson (hopefully tomorrow)?
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 10:49 am:

Cyndy you can give the injectable banamine orally, they don't love the taste but it works. If you look in the medication article under banamine it will tell you this. My mare also gets diharea from bute. She tolerates the banamine very well tho. Good luck
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 11:36 am:

I guess I was wrong about that being in the article, I have never done this, but I know people that have, so don't take my word for it, you might want to ask your vet.
I use the banamine paste.
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 1:11 pm:

I would have preferred the banamine paste, he did not have any, just the injectable. If I had known it was an IV rather than IM, I would have told him to keep it. He is about 50 miles away from us and what we have locally is even less effective (groan). Tomorrow, we will go the same 50 miles, but in the other direction. I can't get her there fast enough at this point. I am inches away from pulling a Shirley MacLaine in Terms of Endearment.... "Give her the ^&*^*( shot!!!" I KNOW a vet has to be as much detective as scientist, but we have been talking to him about this for weeks. I was not paying attention when the vet did the Xrays. We had also taken my mare Tuffy in for a float, and I was "mothering" her out of the sedative. Should have known better, Walt wondered why no posterior view, but he is non-confrontational and just figured the dr. knows best... I'm from NY...confrontation is right up there with breathing! This horse has more attitude than my whole family, and she is so quiet now it's a dark cloud over all our hearts. When Amanda is on her back, she has only one gait, she floats! And they haven't ridden in weeks.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 6:58 pm:

Banamine injectable, does work if put of a little food and fed to the horse. But since you have the injectable and syringes why not give it IM?
DrO
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Sunday, Jan 7, 2007 - 7:47 pm:

That was what I intended, but he told me to go with the bute (using powder in feed) when I told him I would do IM but not IV. I would much prefer the banamine as I believe it will bring her up in general. However, I am wondering if I should give her a dose of anything in the morning if I am trying to get her back into another vet tomorrow. I want her to present at her worst rather than her best. Feedback???
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 1:27 pm:

Cancelled the blacksmith, called the other recommended vet and she cannot fit Honey in untio FRIDAY AFTERNOON!!!
She has been on the bute since Sunday morning, and is doing OK, although we have not turned her out today as we have whitecaps in the pasture right now. No diarrhea yet.
ANY SUGGESTIONS???
Would you go back to the first vet? and if so, what expectations should we take with us?
Should we wait 4 days for the other vet?
The new blacksmith said to not do the banamine IM as he had seen some other cases where the horses had serious skin reactions. DrO, would you recommend in the food over the IM and if so, how much? Dr. W had told me to give her 2cc IV.Thanks guys.
Member:
Dres

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 2:05 pm:

What's 4 more days in the scheme of things. ? Do you want a second opinion? Or do you care? and just want to do the complete blocking to find the source of pain>? If I were going to have my horse vetted for lameness I would not be giving him bute 24 hours before the exam.., maybe 36 hours.. I would want the horse to be able to tell the vet exactly what is bothering him at that moment...

good luck.. lameness evals can be so frustrating..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them spots..
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Monday, Jan 8, 2007 - 4:13 pm:

Ann,
THis has been going on for a while. I had intended to take her off the bute at least 24 hours prior to presenting, she looks a lot brighter today after 3 doses of bute but she tends to get diarrhea from it too. The vet she is with now, is generally here within 24 hours when I need him, and this is just a frustrating incident that is going on too long. Perhaps my compulsive tendencies are surfacing a bit too. I am also so displeased with his failure to get posterior views. I don't understand it.
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 9, 2007 - 10:14 pm:

DrO,
Amanda & I have another vet appt w/Honey Wed pm... when I spoke with him today he indicated that the xrays were all done and front to back view and side to side showed nothing, so now we are moving on to soft tissue options. I was thinking of suggesting a CBC to see if there is any infection. He pointed out that in soft tissue damage, one just starts tx and if that does not work move on to the next tx... I am not particularly comfortable with this, nor is Amanda.. we tried another vet nearby but he is primarily companion animal and felt this was beyond his vx/preg test runs. Suggestions???
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 10, 2007 - 5:59 am:

With thousands of experiences I have never seen a skin reaction (or any reaction for that matter) to a IM injection to flunixin. Neither can I find such a reaction reported in the literature.

Concerning the possibility of infection, does she have a fever? Sometimes small focal infections do not have much in the way of fever or CBC change however.
DrO
Member:
Hpyhaulr

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 10, 2007 - 9:00 am:

Thanks, Dr.O I am seriously inclined to take your word over the blacksmith's lol.
We have not taken her temp in the past couple of days, but over the past couple of weeks, she has maintained on the low side...98.6. considering the fact that she was off bute 24 hours, she was moving around and bucked a bit in the round pen yesterday. Even though in the stall last night, she is moving pretty well this morning. I hate to take her all the way up there when she is presenting well. WIsh you were a few hours closer!
Member:
Hunysgrl

Posted on Friday, Jan 12, 2007 - 11:46 pm:

After a second trip to the vet, we have decided to place bar shoes w/ pads on her. She has Mr. Impressive bloodlines, meaning she has feet that are too narrow for her body size. She is 16.3hh so she is a big girl. She just has too much stress on her fetlock joint. We've noticed that at times she favors the left front leg a little also. The splints that I found are probably causing her some pain in her right front, resulting in the clearly visible lameness in this leg. She has been put on stall rest for 30 days w/ only a hand walk out of her stall. We are having an actual blacksmith come out and form the shoes to her hooves. Before, we only had a farrier, who was making the shoes too narrow. I am glad we finally got a diagnosis that we can work with. She's back to being perky and very alert. She's eating all of her feed and drinking lots of water as per usual for her.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC