|
|
Discussion on Rotting snake in hay
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:31 am:
Dr.O. I fed my horses this morning, did the smell the hay for mold thing. When I went out later, I saw a small piece of hay left, which is odd for the pigs. It was stuck together so I pulled it apart and saw no evidence of mold, when I smelled it, it smelled of rotting flesh. Finally I found a dead snake in the mess.
This was the last part of a bale I have been feeding, obviously they ate around the snake, but should I be concerned of botulism? I have found snakes in the hay before, but none of them smelled like this! Should I take any preventative measures? If so what? Thanks
|
Member:
Boomer
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 2:59 pm:
OK, I would just faint..
|
Member:
Zarr
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 4:13 pm:
Diane, went thru that couple years back only it was a rattlesnake about 4 feet long and I think died of suffacation!! Did not realize I could still leap and run that fast! Called my vet and he wasn't too concerned since it was a very dried snake that had been left in feed tub and it was wintertime!I was worried about residuale poision he wasn,t,we had no smell tho! My last and I hope only experience with "snake hay". Cindy
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 5:36 pm:
I have never had them Smell bad before, that is what worried me! I have had snake hay before, but it never smelled of rotting flesh. I wanted to call my vet but he is off this week. It is worrying me.
So far everyone seems fine, I am not sure how long it would take for symptoms tho. No sleep tonite
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 6:27 pm:
Diane, I'm pretty sure a horse would have to eat some of the dead snake to get botulism. Did you check on the internet; doesn't it say what the time is before symptoms? You don't need something else to worry about!
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 6:38 pm:
Sara, I searched the internet all morning (I am a bit neurotic). It really didn't give a straight ans. from what I could gather anywhere from 8hrs.-7days???? Can't the botulism spores go beyond the snake? I HOPE I am worrying for nothing, but if it can happen.... it will happen to me
Of course the old mare decided she wanted to lay down and take a 3 hr. nap in the sun. I had to go out and make sure she wasn't sick. Made the poor old girl get up and walk around and eat something, she was not amused.
|
Member:
Zarr
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 6:49 pm:
Oh Diane we are all NEUROTICS that's why our horses love us They sneeze and the we provide them hours of entertainment!! Give probiotics and the good gut stuff gets a boost!! Cindy
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 7:04 pm:
I'd never thought of my horses affection for me in those terms before, Cindy! You're probably right; and I know Diane is a prime worrier/fuss-overer.
Diane, I've only heard of horses being affected by actually eating the poisoned feed - usually I hear about hay cubes with dead rats/mice. I'll see if I can find anything, but doubt I'll see anything you haven't already read.
|
Member:
Tuckern
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 7:41 pm:
All I can say is Ewwww.......
|
Member:
Vickiann
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 8:47 pm:
Oh, Diane -- Know where you are coming from -- if it can happen it will happen to you. This is precisely how I have learned WAY MORE about horse health issues than I EVER wanted to know --out of self-defense! Hope time passes and all will go well for you and the equines.
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 9:32 pm:
Thanks guys, Sara if you find info on that I'd appreciate it.
A friend of mine lost 4 of her 6 horses to botulism a few years ago. It was caused by a dead mouse in haylage. Granted, haylage is different than a square bale, wouldn't that mean all the horses couldn't have ate the mouse? Haylage is a wet enviroment tho.
Her horses were fine that night and dead the next morning. One they were able to save at the equine hospital and one wasn't affected at all...go figure. She was devasted for months.
|
Member:
Jojo15
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 10:44 pm:
Now you have me feeling all sick.. I picked out a dead/smelly crunched up mouse in my hay a month or so ago. I only noticed it because all my dogs were rolling around in the hay while the horse was trying to eat it. Then when i went to investigate i smelled the rancid smell associated with decay. and then went thru the rest of the bale and found hair, mouse parts, etc... ugh....
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:07 pm:
jojo at least you made me feel better, I suppose square bales are less likely to promote botulism.
At 10:00 check all were happily grazing.
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:09 pm:
From what I've read so far, the fact that you feed hay and not haylage or
other wet feed, is a really good factor. Botulism requires rotting
vegetable matter or animal carcass to exist/grow. It takes 24 hrs to several
days to act. I really think if you were feeding dry hay, you're o.k. But,
like you, I'd keep an eye open. Also, oxygen is it's "enemy" so wouldn't
there be a lot more oxygen in hay than haylage or for that matter, even
cubes?
( I must be getting tired; I replied to your HA email!)
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:19 pm:
Diane, did you get to this site? I thought it was concise and easy to read and informative...it also could easily make me a worry-wart.https://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecare/veterinary/botulism.htm
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:26 pm:
Poor Diane, will we ever get a full month with no worry. Things we learn here. I had no idea about botulism at all. Never entered my brain cells. My cat is constantly killing critters, beheading rabbits, birds etc in the barn. Will be more diligent now.
Try to sleep and not worry too much.
suz
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:29 pm:
Thanks Sara, yes I did read that site. At least I know what to keep my eye out for. It was Hanks leaf of hay, I did see him leave it and the old girl go over to it, I'm not sure if she ate any or not. I did see Hank tossing it around, I should have known there was something wrong then.
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007 - 11:58 pm:
I'm with Susan. I don't think there's much to do tonight. Have a glass of wine and get some sleep, then check on everyone early in the a.m.
Here's hoping all is well; I have a feeling it will be.
If Hank's a smart horse, he may well have shaken out any bad hay...IF there was any.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 3, 2007 - 8:34 am:
Botulism is a possibility anytime an animal is found rotting in the feed. But dead critters in baled hay is very common and the incidence of botulism in horses quite rare so the risk here very small but not zero. The article associated with this forum includes clinical signs and possible preventive measures, that I personally would not undertake with such a small risk.
DrO
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Wednesday, Jan 3, 2007 - 9:31 am:
Thanks Dr.O. I re-read the article, and one question does pop in my mind. Does the horse have to eat part of the decaying animal, or do the spores multiply? I can see them rapidly forming in a wet enviroment, but what about a dry one?
Cat feces can carry botulism! I am glad I give the hay with that apparent to the cows.
I will keep an eye on my horses and try not to worry...right. Thanks
|
Member:
Boomer
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 12:57 am:
What is haylage?
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 6:27 am:
Patricia in this part of the world, haylage is hay that is chopped and put in big, airless, plastic wrap while it is still wet. As long as air don't get to it, it is suppose to be good feed. It is mostly used for cattle around here.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 7:38 am:
Botulism is not an infection by a spore but a poisoning by a toxin formed by the organism before it sporulates. So the toxin only forms in the rotting flesh or vegetation but it is quite stabile so may wash or be shooken onto surrounding material.
DrO
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 4, 2007 - 9:00 am:
Patricia we have had involved discussions about haylage, run a search on the discussions to learn more.
DrO
|
|
|
