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  Discussion on Collagen granuloma
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Member:
hdollard

Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 11:50 am:

My horse has numerous (20-30) bumps in the saddle area that fit the description (from an article in Equus) perfectly. The bumps are very hard, about the size of a pea, seem to cause no pain or reaction when I press them, and have normal hair and skin over them. I'm concerned because the seem to have suddenly gotten more numerous (maybe due to blanketing?) and one seems to be rubbed from the saddle pad. So, I have 2 questions: 1- Should these be treated? 2- are any topical treatments effective (like the Crest toothpaste), or do they require the "decapitating" or "saucering" procedure? Thanks for your help! -Heidi
Member:
stevens

Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 11:35 pm:

Hi Heidi,

I had a horse once with several bumps on his back where were diagnosed as collagen granulomas after a biopsy.

I seem to remember that a course of prednisone cleared them up and they never came back. I did get a felt pad and cut out areas where it would have been contact with the bumps until they were totally gone. I was told that they were likely a reaction to a bug bite, probably somewhere else on the horse and it was hard to predict if they'd come back or not.

Good Luck,
Chris
Member:
imogen

Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 2:34 am:

What did the article in Equus say about treatment if any? I find these type of lumps are saddle related entirely and depend on the amount of work the horse is doing and more likely to occur in TB type horses. I've been told various "treatments" none of which work except rest in my experience.

All the best

Imogen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 7:06 am:

Hello Heidi,
I read that letter and at the time thought they confused two different conditions. There are at least two different conditions that commonly cause firm intradermal skin bumps that can be differentiated on appearance. Chronic fly bite reactions generally have hair loss on the bump and a central pit where the fly bit the horse. Then there is the condition Imogen describes above where the skin associated with the bump is normal and often occurs with saddle and girth areas.

However treatment is the same and you will find our recommendations under "nodular necrobiosis" in the article associated with this forum. Note there are many uncommon causes of such bumps so if they don't respond consider a biopsy.
DrO
Member:
hdollard

Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 1:51 pm:

To All- Here is the link to the Equus piece:

https://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/illnesses_injuries/eqbumps2192/ It describes the treatment.

Imogen- How much "rest" does it take for the bumps to go away??

Dr O- So, although the bumps don't agree with the description of the nodular necrobiosis since they have no central pit, are only where the back takes pressure from the saddle, and seem to have multiplied since fly season, I should treat them as such? Could the material causing the allergic reaction migrate under skin and cause more bumps?? Maybe a biopsy should be the first step, since all those injections will not be cheap? Thanks!!! -Heidi
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 6:36 pm:

I don't think an allergen is being injected, though I don't know that for a fact, Heidi. I think the pressure sets up an chronic inflammatory response, possible around a micro-necrotic area. But this is just guessing based on the pattern and pathology. With that in mind, or the possibility you are right, I would consider other saddle pad solutions.

The injections are quick and the medication very cheap but sometimes sedation is required when there are many bumps because the horse gets a bit agitated after the 10th time you have stuck him. Discuss the pros and cons with your vet since he knows the costs.
DrO
Member:
hdollard

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 11:44 am:

Dr O- Not sure what you mean by "other saddle pad solutions"? One experienced person suggested I use a freshly washed saddlepad every day and also sprinkle the affected area with baby powder. Is what you had in mind, or using a gel pad or one with better air circulation?

Its good to know the injections are not expensive. I'll definitely consult my vet.

Many thanks!

-Heidi
Member:
imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 6:00 pm:

Heidi don't bother with the saddlepad washing thing - I tried that frequent washing thing also washing in special washing powder, or washing in just salt-water or vinegar-water. None of it made any difference (but that assumes what your horse gets is the same as mine which we don't know for sure).

I've also tried washing the lumps themselves after riding and drying carefully, either with salt water (tried cold and warm) or a bit of hibiscrub. That doesn't work either. I tried dermobion (that green ointment) although I knew it would just make a gloopy mess, to appease a knowledgeable friend. That didn't work either.

I also tried pretending they were rainscald-y (to humour Dr O who at one stage suggested they are something to do with dermatophilus I think...) and that did not work either (see all the posts on rainscald/dermatophilus for the "drug/treatment recipes"). I am not averse to the idea that they are a type of rainscald that horses can get under their blankets, after all it's pretty humid here a lot of the time, but again, it's definitely work/pressure related in terms of when and where it occurs. Could be midgies as well, we have lots of those... but I still don't get why just under the saddle if it's insect-related and my horse's bumps never have any sign of an actual bite.

I find they improve after 2-3 weeks rest. If I could afford the time/money for injections I'd probably try them but my horse is neurotic enough about men bearing hypodermic syringes as it is so definitely she'd have to be sedated...

Please tell me if you find the answer!

All the best

Imogen
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 6:27 pm:

Those all sound like other solutions but I mainly was thinking of changing the type of saddlepad.
DrO
Member:
rein

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 6:38 pm:

So Dr.O, if this too is caused from the saddle pad (allergic reaction) like Imogen's was. Why not some dex to see if the lumps go down? And then of course changing the material of saddle pad? I know we had a mare allergic to wool ones, she sounded similar. She was also very sensitive to insects.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 5:57 am:

There are more specific recommendations Michelle in the article I reference above.
DrO
Member:
imogen

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 6:30 am:

I tried different types of saddle and saddle pad too (quilted cotton, polypads, artifical sheepskin, real sheepskin). No effect though I think real sheepskin may be slightly better.

All the best
Member:
hdollard

Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 9:59 am:

Imogen-

Wow! Thanks for your detailed posting. I'm going to TRY the clean saddlepad/baby powder routine, in part because its cheapest and least invasive and also because my barn manager swears it works on her TB. Also, if we can find the cause then I can prevent them from returning. I guess my next step is the injections, but those wouldn't keep the bumps from returning.

Dr O- I'm trying to understand the physiology of these bumps. So, the best theory is that there is a small amount of dead tissue in the skin, possibly related to a bug bite, but not necessarily, and the pressure from the saddle triggers the growth of the nodule around the tissue? Not sure how this relates to material on the outside of the skin, or does that relate to a different theory of how they are caused?

Thanks!! -Heidi
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 10:57 am:

Heidi,
Until a biopsy is done you really should not look at this as a single disease, there are dozens of possible causes and histological changes that all produce a intradermal papule (small bump) as you describe. So really to go forward with a useful explanation a biopsy would be needed at this point. However many of these are chronic inflammatory reactions, frequently unexplained from the biopsy alone, that respond well to intralesional steroid administration. Because of this I almost in all cases just try empiric treatment first and biopsy if that fails. I know this all seems vague but such is the nature of many of these bumps and EQUUS really should not have put out such a diagnosis based on just the appearance.
DrO
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