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  Discussion on Q on article & Self-healing Sarcoid?
Author Message
Member:
Chip

Posted on Thursday, Oct 3, 2002 - 6:21 pm:

Hi Dr. O,

My horse has had for a lesion about the size of a quarter under his hind leg where it joins his body. The vet believes it to be an occult sarcoid, although we have not had a biopsy done. This is due to his opinion that it is small, apparently not active - so let’s opt for benign neglect. He did say if it were to start changing, then he would want to “get right in there”. When and if that were to be needed, he said he would recommend complete surgical excision and biopsy. As a result of his advice, I keep a close watch on it and I periodically check your site to see if there is anything new in the way of treatment.


In reading over the chart, I realize that I don’t understand some of the information as clearly as I would hope. I wonder if you could help me understand it better.

The article states “…Small tumors may respond to surgical removal but recurrence is common and may occur in over half the cases with the returning lesion more aggressive.” And later states “Benign neglect is a realistic option in some cases where …the lesions are … so small as to make the cost of treatment seem unnecessary. For the latter cases this option should always be viewed with some caution as many cases become progressively worse.” OK – good. This lines up with what my vet has recommended. But the chart lists info that confuses me. The chart states that for an occult sarcoid, “Excision - expected 60-80% success” which seems a good deal better than over half the cases returning with a more aggressive lesion (a very bad result!). Am I misreading the info? Also, how do you define “small”?

For non-surgical occult sarcoid treatments, the chart shows “Topical (AW-4LUDES) - expected results over 80-90% success”. Wow, that’s pretty good odds, right? However, when I read the description of this treatment I am leery to undertake it. Using a heavy-metal compound that is designed to induce tissue necrosis? Sounds pretty awful. Is it painful? Are there general health risks of for the horse in using it?

Also, not related to the info in your article. Early this summer, I noticed a wart like thing (about the size of a shelled sunflower seed) as a new feature on the quarter sized occult lesion. Ok – it is showing signs of aggression. I figured come winter, with less bug problems, I would call the vet to have it removed. And, low and behold now that it is fall, the little wart thing has dried up and fallen off leaving the lesion pretty much in its original condition. I have not been treating it in any way. Does that sound odd to you … I mean for a sarcoid.

Finally, any new info on the treatment front?

Thanks much for your time. I get a lot out of the articles and posts.

Regards,
MaryS
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 4, 2002 - 4:50 am:

Thanks Mary,
I think you have read the chart wrong Mary. 3 stars translates (key at the bottom of the chart) to a 40 to 60 % sucess rate with excision which is consistant with what is in the article. Small is about the size of a nickel.
DrO
Member:
Teresaa

Posted on Sunday, Oct 6, 2002 - 11:06 am:

Hello,

my horse had two sarcoids: one on his neck and one between his front legs. The one on the neck was noticable and ugly and the one between his legs tended to ooze. In discussion with my vet, we decided to try Regressin. It was expensive and there was a reaction lasting 1-3 days after each treatment (3 times). Both lesions fell off with no sign of returning (so far).
Member:
Chip

Posted on Monday, Oct 7, 2002 - 1:23 pm:

Dr. O,

Thanks for the response. I do see now that I misread that chart, and it is consistant with the text in the article. (It should be a warning to to me to not read that stuff on Friday afternoon, huh?)

Teresa,
Thanks for taking the time to post your experience with Regressin. I'm glad you had good results. As my horse's sarcoid seems to have moved from the wart-like kind back to the occult type, I am currently in a wait, watch and scratch-your-head and wonder mode. And, that's fine with me. The funny (not ha ha) thing about these sarcoids is that the treatment has the potential to not only not cure, but to worsen the problem by upping the agressiveness of the sarcoid. Well, it's wait and see for now.

Thanks,
Mary
Member:
Sparky

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002 - 3:51 pm:

Mary - I have a gelding that had 11 fibreblastic sarcoids inside his ear - I tried a herbal program that "sort of" worked - it tried but really didn't do a whole lot - I was lucky enough that while at the vets for a leg injury a CO2 lazer came in and they used him as a demo horse and we have had no sign of any new growth - a small one inside his other ear that we missed is also almost gone - I believe his system could finally fight the small one with the others gone - there is a really good sarcoid group on Yahoo under equine_sarcoid - there are many opinions, success and failure stories and the support from other sarcoid owners is awsome. Good luck - Janet Schmidt
Member:
Chip

Posted on Friday, Oct 10, 2003 - 6:22 pm:

Hello,

I was the original poster on this thread and while certainly not a life threatening issue, I thought I would post an update just for the record.

In the March 2001 I first noticed a quarter sized lesion of thickened skin on my horse’s inner thigh. It grew about 5%-10% in diameter during the first year. In March 2002 a patch of 25 or so pea sized nodules appeared in the skin on his left shoulder. The cluster of firm nodules were definitely IN the skin rather than under it, and had normal hair covering. A vet’s exam pointed to a diagnosis of a sarcoid for the lesion under his leg. Without a biopsy the vet did not attempt to diagnose the nodules on his shoulder. He advises a wait and see approach.

By the late summer of 2002 I was considering the quarter sized lesion of thickened skin removed from my horse’s inner thigh. It appeared to be getting more aggressive with some wart-like bumps. I planned to do the procedure in the fall after the bugs died off. I wasn’t sure what to do about the bumps on his shoulder – there seemed to be too many to remove easily.

However, in the fall of 2002, the lesion under his leg appeared to improve. The wart-like bumps erupted (bled), then crusted over and fell off – leaving just the flat thickened lesion again. I did not apply any treatments that might have caused this. With this change, and unrelated difficulties in scheduling the vet appointment, I decided not to do any procedures and to let well enough alone.

At the time, I assumed in spring and summer the lesion would get worse again, as that had happened in the two previous years. Each summer it got to larger and more agrivated looking before showing some small improvement in the fall. Not sure why. Maybe that progression is counter to the clinical descriptions for a sarcoid. However, I have heard similar anecdotal reports by others w/ horses who have biopsy diagnosed sarcoids.

At any rate, come spring and summer of 2003, especially with the shedding of his winter coat, I was surprised to see the thickened patch of skin was not longer there. Just smooth skin, although no hair. Also, the nodules on his shoulder had gotten smaller with many of them disappearing altogether. As the summer progressed and now in the fall with his winter coat growing in, the skin where his leg lesion had been has returned to a normal, hair covered appearance. No sign of thickening skin or warts. Also, I really cann’t find any of the nodules on his shoulder either.

So, things have improved, of course I’m very happy with the current status! But I sometimes wonder why? I’ll probably never know.
Was it never really a sarcoid? Maybe – since I have no biopsy confirming it.
Why did the lesion get worse in the summer and then improve a little in the fall?
Were the nodules on his shoulder maybe not in any way connected to the lesion under his leg?

I just wanted to report my experience back on the list in case it might be of interest to others. Also, I thought maybe someone else would have a point of view if they had had a similar experience.

Regards,
MaryS

PS - Janet, although VERY late, Thanks for taking the time to post about the equine_saroid group. I did use that as a resource after you posted about it.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 11, 2003 - 3:16 am:

Hello Mary,
The improvement is almost certainly related to a immune system that finally became activated against the sarcoids. This happens occasionally.
DrO
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