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  Discussion on Is This Scratches?
Author Message
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 29, 2002 - 8:35 am:

Dr. O.,
I am going to try to explain my mare's condition as best I can. I have read the info on scratches, and my gelding had it before. This is not the same thing. My mare has bumps on her back legs. They are mostly on the fetlock in front more than the back, but they are also on her cannons and the tendon/ligament (not sure what it is) that runs up the back of the leg from the hock. The bumps are not large, the largest are about the size of a pea. They are not crusty, but more like sap stuck in her hair. It does hurt to pull them out, and they won't soften. I am using the same treatment that cured my gelding, but don't seem to be making any progress. I wonder what this is? She is not lame, the lumps are not hot, but some seem deeply imbedded in her skin. Should I try to shave off her hair? She has been clipped once already, but has grown back, and we are going to clip her again anyway. Maybe I can ask the clipper to shave her back legs closer. Anyway, as a side note, this mare is grey, and no matter how long I bathe and scrub her, there are always these little black dirt spots that won't come out. I wonder if that is related to this current problem. She has had this about a month now.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 8:43 am:

It sounds like tree sap Alicia. If you pull them out what does the skin underneath look like?
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 10:17 am:

Dr. O.,
It just looks like you pulled some hair out along with a clump of black stuff. No bleeding, no pus or liquid. She has been clipped once, about a month ago, and I am clipping her again next week, as she has grown out again. Should I just clip off the stuff if she doesn't object? How else do you remove tree sap? I don't want to make the mistake of thinking it is sap when it could be a condition of some kind, as I'm sure whatever you would use to remove the sap would not feel good on wounds. Can you just use baby oil? Maybe I can use one of those flea combs for dogs?
Oh, do you know what the other stuff I mentioned is? It looks like "congealed dust", but it just won't come out of her hair. I have bathed her vigourously, ridden her after she dried, and groomed again to disover some more black dots had risen to the surface. They just won't seem to come out! I guess a vaccuum would work?
Alicia
Member:
Redwood

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 12:45 pm:

Butter and peanut butter are said to remove tree sap.

Nancy
Member:
Valerieg

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 1:30 pm:

My horse has something that sounds similar - but it can't be tree sap - he doesn't have access to trees. The front of his cannon bones don't really have bumps, more like a whole patch is coated with it. He has had it for at least a year. I'd almost call it a wax build-up? I try to scrape it off - hair does come with it - and I can't tell if skin is left or another layer of this gunk. Eventually, he gets antsy with me scraping - but he doesn't seem to have any pain with this. Is this like yours, Alicia?
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 1:46 pm:

Anette,
Best yet description I have heard. She does have some areas where it is all bumps, like the front of the cannon. But she also has areas where there is one lump, almost like a wart. The lumps are waxy in consistancy, glad you said that. Her reaction is exactly like what you said. She does have access to trees, which is why I couldn't rule out the sap.
Alicia
New Member:
Judi297

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 2:36 pm:

Do you have chiggers in your area? Your descriptions sound like what our horses have when chiggers have bitten them.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 2:42 pm:

I have no idea! My barn is located in Maryland close to the Potomac river and Washington DC. None of the other horses has this. My gelding had the classic scratches, which I cured with anti bacterial foam and T Zon after about two weeks, and he has been fine for a while now. Wouldn't more horses have it if it were related to pests?
Alicia
Member:
Valerieg

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 3:05 pm:

I have no idea if we have chiggers either (I am in the Chicago area.) Wouldn't this affect more than just his back legs?
Member:
Judi297

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 6:36 pm:

Check with your agricultural centers to see if your area has chiggers. I have had horses go on trail rides together and share the same field space and some get them and some don't. They can affect one leg or all. They usually show up about 2-3 days after exposure. They are noticed then because the hair gets sticky and clumpy. I usually scrub them with warm water and benadine and pick off the crusties. You might not have chiggers but just remember people can get them too. And the same goes for us. My husband and I get be if the field together and I get them and he doesn't. He calls me the bug magnet. By the way I live in New Jersey.
Member:
Oakfarm

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 7:32 pm:

Our horses get something similar enough that I think it is the same thing<g>..

we have always assumed it is the result of irritation from insects. The skin is thin on the front of the cannons, and while the horses can nose the insects off in front,. behind is more difficult--and apparently much more tasty, as this is where urine splashes on to the legs.

In any case, we try to get ahead of the problem by using rubber groom brushes/towels/etc before there is a lot of build-up.

Once you've got the build-up, best is warm water and something gentle like Nolvasan scrub, then some Desitin or zinc oxide cream..if you end up having raw spots, we generally use Nolvasan ointment until scabbed and then Swat.

Ity may take several scrubbings to really get rid of the stuff--if you try to do too much at one time, you can have a very unhappy horse!

good luck,

Member:
Paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 30, 2002 - 7:42 pm:

Hi, Judy, I'm in Jersey too. Chiggers were really bad this year. Alicia and Annette: Some horses on our farm are much more sensitive to them than others. The horses usually get them when they brush up against low growing shrubs where the chiggers cluster and lay in wait for a host. Usually it looks like a cluster of small bumps under the hair. Most of the time, the bites will only be in areas where the bushes brush the horse - legs, belly, chest, flanks. If the horse is sensitive, or the number of chiggers enormous, a whole hand or saucer-sized area composed of hundreds of bites, will raise and weep. Chiggers are so tiny, that you'd never see them on a horse, and, only with great eyesight on yourself. If you brush up against infested brush, they will attach to your clothes and quickly search for the first skin to latch on to. They like tight, dark spaces, and usually end up around your ankles and lower leg. But they can make it higher, and are very partial to the area of skin under the waistband of your clothes. What to do? Well, when I venture out during chigger season, I am DRENCHED in Deep Woods OFF, Cutters, Tri-Tech, ANY bug repellant I can get my hands on. I wear my suede leggings or I duct tape my pants. The excruciating itch of chigger bites is not to be believed!!!!! Right, Judy? As for the horses, look for a spray that actually names CHIGGERS on it's bug list. I have found that Benedryl gel gives ME a couple hours of relief - but it's short lived, and minor. The horses seem to be more stoic about the itch, but then, I HATE to itch.
With the horses, I just keep the areas clean and brushed. If chiggers is your problem, there's not much else you can do. We have one horse that seems to be allergic and had two bad episodes. The affected areas swelled badly, he developed hives over most of his body, and his legs and spots on his belly filled with fluid. The vet injected him and left us with a kit to use on him should another episode occur. That horse doesn't trail ride during chigger season anymore.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Thursday, Oct 31, 2002 - 12:20 am:

Now don't laugh but I use mouthwash on the areas that you are talking about. and it works great. BUT don't scrub to hard. The area will become inflamed and get hot when you agitate it. Great description "waxy build up" I just put it under "rain rot" descriptions. But if you soak some rag in mouthwash. Not the blue stuff but clear (listerine). and scrub a little, you'll notice it will come off easier and won't come back....

jo
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 31, 2002 - 6:13 am:

The best sruff I have tried for tree sap is the waterless hand cleaning stuff that mechanics use to get grease off their hands. But lets briefly revisit the diagnosis: is the skin under these places normal?
DrO
Member:
Valerieg

Posted on Thursday, Oct 31, 2002 - 8:17 am:

Interesting - I talked with a woman in my barn last night - she said the same thing as Lita - from splashing urine on his back legs. It irritates the skin, the sebaceous glands secrete oil - the oil, dirt, urine (and anything else) will get stuck in there. She said to wash with Nolvasan and betadine - maybe lightly wrap the back legs for a while to keep them from getting dirty again. The mouthwash sounds good, too! I don't know how your mare does her thing - could she be getting urine splashed in those areas?
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, Oct 31, 2002 - 9:26 am:

OK, I'll try to answer all this stuff at once.
We have no bushes in our turn out, only a few trees. We have no grass, our turn outs are basically dirt with a few scraps of dirty grass. Could she still get chiggers from that? We don't trail ride, we only show. Also, I can't tell exactly what is under the stuff, as her hair is so thick, but I have not seen any serum or blood come out. There is also no swelling on the legs at all. She does have a few smaller lumps on her ventral midline on her belly, and a few on the front of her back leg above the hock. None on the front legs at all, however. I am going to try putting mineral oil on the affected areas, leaving in on for a day, and washing off with Ivory soap, rewashing with an anti fungal shampoo, drying thorougly, putting anti biotic on, then T zon. I hope this will cure any and all of whatever this might be. I assume the mineral oil would work as well as the hand gunk if it is sap, and this is supposed to get the scabs off it is is one of the other skin conditions. I am going to try this weekend.
My mare is very particular about keeping herself clean when she urinates, but that doesn't mean she still isn't getting urine on her legs.
Hey, I just received an order of mud sheild powder from Keratex. I am going to start using that on both my horses to keep stuff from starting again.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 1, 2002 - 7:33 am:

Annette, this has been long thought a cause of cannon scurff but near as I can tell mares get it just as ofter as geldings.

Alicia, normal hair and skin under the gunk: sounds like some sort of foreign substance stuck to the hair and not a disease.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Nov 1, 2002 - 12:19 pm:

Dr. O. and everyone else,
I plan on using the plan I stated above to try and loosen whatever it is. I will then try to get it off. If it doesn't come off, I will try the hand cleaning stuff. Last resort it clipping if off, which will happen Wednesday when she gets clipped if it isn't already off.
Thanks for all the help!!
Alicia
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Friday, Nov 1, 2002 - 3:47 pm:

You might try baby oil. We use it for tar at the beach...
Member:
Joyback

Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2003 - 4:48 pm:

T ZON was mentioned here. I'm fairly new. What is it? What is it used for, etc.
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