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  Discussion on Pigeon Fever taking forever to go away
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Member:
Beezle

Posted on Friday, Nov 29, 2002 - 5:08 pm:

One of my horses (luckily only ONE of my three horses) contracted Pigeon Fever in late July. It is STILL not gone. I know this can linger for quite a while but it is making me crazy.

The mare is a 17 year old Morgan. The swelling started in late July, from just between her front legs toward the back about 2 feet, and 1 foot wide. Three abcesses in this area had drained in August and early September. Just as this large area of swelling went down, another area started at the front of her chest. It got quite large, but no abcesses have drained from that area at all. Now most of the muscle swelling is gone, leaving a large lump (probably a deeper abcess) about the size of a mango. It is very hard. It does not yet have a soft spot like the other areas did just before they drained. It has been like this unchanged for about a month. The mare is not showing any other signs of illness, she seems quite herself. Our vet does not like to put horses on antibiotics for this unless they go off their feed or get depressed, or if the swelling goes into their legs. The mare was put on antibiotics for a short time because it looked like it may have been going into her legs, but the leg swelling went completely away and they had us stop the antibiotics (that was in September).

I had her at the vet again about 3 weeks ago to look at the chest lump and he said it was not ready to drain. He suggested waiting a few weeks and if it had not drained, they could ultrasound it to see how deep it is and could tell if they could drain it.

I am not really sure if I should just wait it out, or bring her back to the vet. I kind of feel like if it will eventually go away, I would rather wait it out, but it has been unchanged for a month now. I have been hot packing it and using Epsom Salts to try to bring the abcess out, but so far no luck. Is there any harm in waiting it out, or should I bring her in to see again if they can drain it?

Has anyone else had similar experience with Pigeon Fever?

Becky
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Nov 30, 2002 - 8:12 am:

Without examining the horse Becky there is little help we can give you other than to tell you your experience is not unusual. The course of antibiotic may have slowed down this abscess and if found and drained things may heal quicker then. If economics is a primary consideration you may want to just wait. If you can find some icthammol ointment it is useful for helping bring abscesses to a head. The decision making process and prognosis are described in the article.
DrO
Member:
Beezle

Posted on Sunday, Jan 19, 2003 - 10:55 am:

Update: The vet came out on 12/3/02 and ultrasounded the swelling to confirm an abscess. It was nearly an inch deep within the muscle of the front of the chest area. She opened it and drained it. I flushed it twice a day with a water/betatdine solution for about 2 weeks until it closed to the point where I could no longer get any solution into it. The swelling had gone down, nearly gone, but not entirely, and it was no longer hard, just soft like normal flesh. The incision area continued to ooze and crust over a small bit. I was thinking maybe, there was still some abscess left there, and figured it would resolve itself over time.

Just yesterday, we are back to swellings again, just like at the beginning of the illness when it first hit in August. Just behind her front legs in her midline/girth area, there is a hard swelling about 6 inches across (this is where the original abcesses began), and also in the front of the chest a small area that is swelling. The mare is not bothered by it at all, but I sure am!

I will likely call my vet this week to give her an update, but I presume she is going to say wait it out again. They said before that the older horses seem to have a harder time fighting it off.

Thanks everyone for listening. I just needed to vent my frustration with this illness....

Becky
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 20, 2003 - 6:15 am:

I wish I had better advice than that but that does seem to be the best.
DrO
Member:
Revans

Posted on Friday, Jul 30, 2004 - 6:21 pm:

I have a mare & foal - the mare contracted pigeon fever about July of 2003 - the abcesses were on her chest (2) - and on the bottom of her belly - the vet lanced and drained one of the abcesses and the others popped on their own - we thought we were out of the woods when the mare's PV cleared up 2-3 months later - no - the foal contracted the PV also around the 1st of November 2003 - he had abcesses on the inside of the back legs - then the abcesses moved to his sheath and stayed there - he had 5 -7 abcesses in his sheath - we were really worried when the PV possibly moved to the lymph nodes in his sheath - the vet just said - as long as he is eating, has an appetite and doesn't have a high fever, just wait it out - we flushed everyday (we used a pump style weed spayer (new - no pesticide residue)with warm water and betadine solution, worked great for portability then salved with ichthemol -from Nov 1, 2003 to June 1, 2004 we flushed and salved daily - no antibiotics were used - we also used grapeseed oil with oil of oregano (recommend by a holistic vet) to rub on in addtion to ichthamol - he shows no sign of PV to date - hope this info is helpful - hang in there and treat daily! Good Luck!
Member:
Revans

Posted on Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 - 7:01 pm:

Correction - my foal has another abcess as of Aug 1, 2004 - so the poor little guy still has PV - wish us luck!!!
Member:
Beezle

Posted on Monday, Aug 23, 2004 - 4:02 pm:

Hi Richard - My mare's abscesses came and went from July 2002 thru April 2003. Thankfully, I think I can safely say it is gone now. It is such a frustrating illness, though I think it bothers the owners more than it does the horses.

Good luck!

Becky
Member:
Gailking

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 16, 2004 - 3:43 pm:

Hi Richard. I just read your posts on Pigeon Fever. My two Arabs got it several years ago. My older one had a large abcess on his belly, a really big one on his front chest and a smaller one on his sheath. The two big ones popped on their own. I lanced the one on his sheath and that helped his discomfort somewhat. But in hindsight, I probably would not do that again as I think it helped prolong the swelling. He had scar tissue and swelling for well over a year later and even had a lump. Finally, for the last year, his sheath is normal. Just thought I would pass along my experience that the sheath can take a lot longer to fully heal. The other abcesses healed after several weeks of care with little problem. I don't know about immunity. I think this is the second time my older horse has had it because he has a scar on his chest exactly like the one left after this episode. I have also heard from UC Davis that there is no immunity after exposure. I live in the N. Calif. foothills and we have had lots of cases here theses past years. I am convinced it is from the proliferation of wild turkeys. I have removed my horses from the ranch where they spent the summers and they have been fine since. Good luck both of you with your horses. It is a nasty disease. I have a friend with 3 out of 5 horses with it right now. I hope they find a cure soon. Gail PS. My younger horse only had a swelling on his front chest which never abcessed--it just went away on its own!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 17, 2004 - 7:11 am:

I went to see if any new research has been done in the past year and there is not much out there. The most interesting in the finding that as many as 20% of the flies in endemic areas carry the organism:

Am J Vet Res. 2004 Jun;65(6):829-34.
Use of a real-time polymerase chain reaction-based fluorogenic 5' nuclease assay to evaluate insect vectors of Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis infections in horses.

Spier SJ, Leutenegger CM, Carroll SP, Loye JE, Pusterla JB, Carpenter TE, Mihalyi JE, Madigan JE.

Department of Medicine and Epidemiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis, CA 95616, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To develop and use a sensitive molecular assay for detecting the phospholipase D (PLD) exotoxin gene of Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis in an attempt to identify insect vectors that may be important in transmission of clinical disease in horses. SAMPLE POPULATION: 2,621 flies of various species. PROCEDURE: A real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based fluorogenic 5' nuclease (TaqMan) system (ie, TaqMan PCR assay) was developed for the detection of the PLD gene in insects. Flies were collected monthly (May to November 2002) from 5 farms in northern California where C. pseudotuberculosis infection in horses is endemic. Three of the 5 farms (which housed a total of 358 horses) had diseased horses during the study period. A total of 2,621 flies of various species were tested for the PLD gene of C. pseudotuberculosis. RESULTS: Evidence of bacterial DNA for the PLD gene was detected in skin biopsy specimens from clinically affected horses and from 3 fly species collected from farms where affected horses were housed. Farms with a high incidence of diseased horses had a high proportion of insects carrying the organism. High percentages of flies with positive results for the PLD gene were observed in October, when most clinically affected horses were observed. CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Our results are consistent with the hypothesis that C. pseudotuberculosis may be vectored to horses by flies. Three potential vectors were identified, including Haematobia irritans, Stomoxys calcitrans, and Musca domestica. The organism can be identified in up to 20% of house flies (Musca domestica) in the vicinity of diseased horses.

In the largest survey of horses with a history of the disease recurrence is rare suggesting there is some immunity but we know little about this.
DrO
New Member:
Sr26953

Posted on Saturday, Nov 20, 2004 - 10:10 pm:

My mare has had PV for over a year. During that time she has been bred, had a foal and the foal has been weaned. The PV swelling runs from her teat to about eight inches forward on her midline. Sometimes it is big, sometimes smaller, once it went away for a week and then came back. Has anyone had an experience using immune system boosting supplements to help a horse fight off this obnoxious disease? HELP!!!!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 22, 2004 - 9:22 am:

Suzanne, I would like to help you but would you restart your question as a new discussion? Click on » Pigeon Fever, Dryland Strangles, & Distemper » at the top of this page, then go to the bottom of the page and you will see a button to start a new discussion. Thanks for helping keep these board organized.
DrO
Member:
revans

Posted on Monday, Jan 7, 2008 - 4:26 pm:

Rick evans and I have the same mare & foal discussed earlier - H'onu (foal) almost lost his life to PV - we used Rifampin and Sulfur on him for 3 weeks - Troy Ford DVM Clovis, CA helped us out - since H'onu has been PV free for about 1 1/2 years when previously he had PV from 6 mos old to 4 years old - mostly in his sheath and then the worst part when he started losing weight and running a high fever the scabs were all over his entire body and thick abcesses in his sheath and upper legs.
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