This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Upper Rear Limb » Overview of Diseases of the Hock (Tarsus) »
  Discussion on Long yearling with sore hocks
Author Message
New Member:
Mlody

Posted on Saturday, Dec 21, 2002 - 8:40 pm:

I have a long yearling he is 21 months old and I have owned him since he was 5 months old. When he came to me he had physitis in the fetlock joints front and back although the back was the most effected. I had all joints x-rayed right away every thing looked good and the colt was sound.He was put on grass hay and a trace mineral supplement for horse with physitis called Foal Aide. well he has most recently been what I would call not right behind I have had several vets looked at him and I have had xrays done as well. He is negative to flex upper and lower limb but when blocked out in the hocks moved sound. He is a grade 1/5 lame(recent x-rays show nothing). He is now on Legend IV,Adequan,and GLC 5500 and the vets suggested I bring him back when I am ready to start to have his hocks injected. I was very upset with this news as this is a unstarted horse who only gets turn out and the occasional lunging if weather does not permit turn out. They have no explanation as to why he would be sore. My question is do you think it could be related to his physitis? or the fact that he is growing so fast?Maybe growth related? I want to avoid injecting but I am also worried about long term inflamation as this has been going on for about 7 months. He can not have bute as he had a ulcer.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Dec 22, 2002 - 4:26 am:

I have 3 questions Melody. Is he lame in one hock or both, which joint in the hock provided relief when injected, and is there any swelling around the joint?

Growing fast is not a explanation of why a young horse might be lame but it is correlated with several chronic lameness diseases of which OC is first on the list. It is often not observable on radiographs (see » Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of Joints » OCD and DOD in Horses).

I can understand your reluctance to inject a young horse but if further diagnostics, like an endoscopic exam of the joint, is not practical, it may be the best therapy available to you.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Sunday, Dec 22, 2002 - 11:10 am:

DrO:
Thanks for your help. The answers to your questions is they blocked both the inside and the outside joints in the hock and yes he was sore in both hocks. There were no leasions present on the x-rays. I was a little confused in the artile regarding OCD/OC what is the difference between the two? also there is no swelling in the hocks he does have a small throughpin though. He is a quarter horse and is about 15.3 hands at this time. Also he does seem to be sounder after reciving 3 legend IV shots. Is an endoscopic exam going to be the only way of seeing a OC lesion?
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Sunday, Dec 22, 2002 - 2:48 pm:

Dr.O
After much thought I have decided that since this colt is insured I want to be aggressive in finding the root of the problem. What would the next best step be? You mentioned a endoscopic exam is that where the look into the joint as in orthoscopic? Is that not pretty invasive in itself? The Vets thatI went to are about 2 hours from my house and specialize in lameness and have 2 surgeons on staff one of which looked at my colt.He had suggested the x-rays I brought with me were not all that great and that they have a new Digital x-ray system he suggested taking new films and going from there I just want to know what else I can do if they dont show anything as well.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Dec 23, 2002 - 9:06 am:

OC is the general term for any of the diseases, usually involving aseptic necrosis, of endochondral ossification: the process where cartilage is formed and then turned to bone during growth. OCD is the specific disease where there is complete or incomplete separation of a portion of joint cartilage from the underlying bone: a cartilage flap.

Many OCD lesions are only visible with arthroscopy I am afraid. You should discuss what your next step would be with your vet, it will depend not only on your resources but those available to you locally. Some suggestions would be to better define which of three joint spaces (two of the four hock joints of each leg communicate) are causing the pain by not blocking them at the same time. If they have better imaging equipment then re-radiographing is a good option.

You are correct in that arthroscopy is an invasive procedure and should be last on the list in a case of undiagnosed lameness, but sometimes it is the only way to fix the problem.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 25, 2002 - 10:58 pm:

Dr.O:
I spoke with my vet again and got a more clear understanding about things with my colt. He did only block the lower joint in the hocks and he was sound from that. My vet feels that with the x-rays I had done and how he presented that OCD lesion is not likely he said most of the time a OCD lesion will be in the upper joint but that he most likely has some form of OC in the lower hock joint. So if I am to understand this correctly OC is where there was a problem with the process of cartilage turning to bone? He had said I could inject him now but he feels that he will just sore himself up in the next 4-5 months in turn out and need to be injected again when I start him to work.He suggested we stick with the game plan of using the Legend,adequan and MSM until I am ready to start him.He thinks his prognosis if he satys sound after injection and does not need another one for at least a year or more is good but that if he sores up with in 3 months of his injection its not a good thing. What do you think of all this?? Would you suggest any thing else?
Thanks,
Melody
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 26, 2002 - 6:31 am:

Yes that is roughly a definition, but understand that there are many forms of OC and OCD is one of them. Though the good Dr. is right, we recognize OCD more frequently in the distal tibia, that may simply be because it is easier to visualize there and the prognosis is much worse in the proximal joint of the hock.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Thursday, Sep 25, 2003 - 11:33 pm:

Dr.O:
Just an update on my colt who is now almost 3 years old. I have taken him back and had digital x-rays done showing the same thing as before, no OCD leasions present that is visable. I had his hocks injected and it did not change a thing. He was injected with steroids and legend in the joint. I continue to use IV Legend, and Adequan. This poor guy just is not sound the hope was with time if I could keep him from reinjuring himself(he is very active and loves to run and slid into the corners of the turn out which makes his lameness worse ) the cartlidge may remodel with time. I guess my question is at this point inhis growth does diet still play a big role? He is on grass hay at the moment. Is there any other treatments available? I guess I am looking for an answer where there might not be one. His lameness is very suttle but none the less he is not right and the hope was by the time he was done growing and a little more solid it might resolve itself. Does this sound crazy?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2003 - 6:33 am:

Does diet play a big role in what Melody? Proper diet is always important but I don't think that is your question.

Time is always important treatment and since the lameness blocks out in a joint that can fuse the prognosis is always a little better than fair. For more on this see the article on » Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of Joints » Arthrodesis and Joint Fusion for Arthritis. You may want to repeat the blocking to be sure you are still dealing with the same cause as last year.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2003 - 10:08 am:

Dr.O
I agree with you although the lameness looks the same and he has never changed his way of moving I sometimes wonder if his stifle is involved he will engage himself and move great and then throw a little hitch every once in a while I mainly only see it on the left hind. Any way I live near UC Davis in California and they have the machine where you can scan and see any "Hot" spots do you think that would be a waste of time? I just really do not want to put this colt through a invasive procedure like surgery to nail the problem.

As fas as a balanced diet I was thinking developmental wise should he still be on a trace mineral supplement like you would treat a foal with developmental issues.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 26, 2003 - 6:11 pm:

If the lameness is well localized the "hot spot" will pretty much be redundant information: you know where the pain is coming from. Usually the spot does not diagnose the cause of the heat.

No just good general nutrition is about all I would recommend. Whether you use a joint supplement ("flex product") depends on whether you want to fuse the joint or not: it may slow it down.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Saturday, Sep 27, 2003 - 9:48 am:

Dr.O
I was afraid you were going to say that about the joint products slowing down the process it makes perfect sense. I did adequan 8 shots all 4 days apart and then I was going to go with 3cc once a week after that but now I dont think that is such a good idea. I hate to see him so sore I think sometimes I am treating myself and not him. You are right abou the bone scan I do know his hocks are his trouble I thought it would show up clearer if it were OCD. Would you not reccomend doing the Legend and Adequan on this type of problem? They dont seem to make much of a difference anyway.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 7:44 am:

You might check with the school to see what the resolution on their gamma scan is: can it seperate out the varous joints (soft tissue phase) and small bones of the hock? Perhaps there are newer machines with greater resolution. If the expensive injectables are not helping, I certainly would not continue them past a 30 day trial.
DrO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 - 11:32 am:

DrO.
Well I am back from my trip to davis. My colt has had x-rays of the hocks and stifles and the stifles look good and the hocks look about the same as before. He has no signs on the x-rays of OCD he does however have arthritis in the lower stacking joints of both hocks. There suggestion was to inject his hocks and continue to inject and ride him on bute until he is fused. I myself am not willing to inject this colt he was injected once 7 months ago and it did not change a thing. My attending vet disagrees she thinks his best chance at some sort of soundness is to be turned out to allow his cartlidge to remodel. She did say he will always be a management problem but his level of soundness should improve with turn out. what do you think?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 - 6:20 am:

Let's see he is 2 and 1/2 years old now. Your best course of action depends of what your specific goals are, melody. Describe for me what they are and how this horse figures into them. Also I am unclear as to whether your vet is disagreeing with you or the vet school.
DO
Member:
Mlody

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 - 11:57 pm:

Dr.O
My vet is disagreeing with the Davis on injectimg the hocks repeatedly on this colt she thinks turning him out is his best chance for soundness.

And at this point I am attached to this guy I have had him since he was 4 months old. I realized his future as a show horse will be limited to what he can handle with his conditions, I would like to do what ever is best for him in the long run. If turning him out for a year or so gives him a chance at a more normal life that is what I will do, I am just wondering if it still has a chance of helping him.
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC