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  Discussion on Hard to describe lameness in rear
Author Message
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Thursday, Jan 16, 2003 - 10:18 pm:

Hi, Dr. O. I have a 15 yr. old arabx gelding that started to present with a sore hind end is the best I can describe it sort of an all around stiffness in the rear. He has not been rode in months and is pasture kept. This started around Christmas, and has progressively gotten worse. I rent where I keep my horses and am sure the kids and dogs that visited ran this horse as the pasture was ripped up and huge holes in the ground, and can tell there was terrible torque on his legs. Anyway he has foundered about 2 years ago and has bare foot and sound since, but he started throwing his weight forward becouse of his rear and started foundering again I caught that soon enough and got it fairly under control. I had the vet out last Tues. and got no ans. said his hocks were kinda sore and left me with some bute, also he did hoof test which was neg. in all 4 feet. He is now locked in a small paddock with stall acces, he lays down alot. when standing he seems real uncomfortable in the rear. He stands with one leg or the other hitched up it seems to be both sides. When both feet are on the ground he stands with them kinda turned in and real close together. They are also swollen from the knee to the stifle altho I don't know if it is actually swelling as it is rock hard, no heat. Yesterday he didn't seem to be getting much better when I went out in the morning he was shaking and stiff it is very cold here which isn't helping anything. he does seem to walk out of it a little when I walk him, he don't want to move much by himself. I had the farrier out weds. to put shoes on front
and he checked for abcesses and found nothing. Today had vet out again to try to get some sort of diagnosis and he agreed his rear legs were bigger and harder than should be, did palptation got quite a reaction from hocks and (Glutoids). Took his temp. was normal. I guess my question would be should he be locked in, or turned out is there anything other than bute I can give him and if he did torque his hocks and pretty much his whole rear with hopefully no rips or tears how long to heal? I cannot do expensive diagnostics with him as he is my retired trail horse., But want to help him as much as possible. My husband and I just bought 35 acres and will be moving horses from this crazy place, it isn't the 1st time theses kids and dogs chased my horses, and that will help them more than anything. Any suggestions to make him more comfortable would be appreciated, also had vet pull blood for cbc and thyroid. Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 17, 2003 - 7:56 am:

His rear legs are bigger and harder (I assume both) ...lame on both sides...2 things come to mind if it is not foundering in the rear (and the high swelling is not consistant with founder). One would be tying up, have them run muscle enzymes on that blood sample, see article. The other would be a saddle thrombus. This is a clot at the bifurcation of the aortia that feeds the hind legs, » Equine Diseases » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » Saddle (Aortic-Iliac) Thrombus. Let me know how this plays out.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Friday, Jan 17, 2003 - 8:46 pm:

Hi Dr.O. the vet called this morning and said all blood samples were within normal range. He thinks beings this horse was run on the frozen, hard ground he probaly has bruised soles and possibly some laminitis, which is quit possible since he foudered before and seems more comfortable on very soft gound and deep bedding. The only thing that don't sit right with me is no response to hoof testers and no bounding pulse, except when he gets up from laying down. Is that normal? It does seem to go back to normal after a few minutes. The article on saddle thrombosis does not sound like his symptoms. If he has sole bruises would they test positive with hoof testers? It's all confusing. Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 18, 2003 - 8:08 am:

Diane did he run the muscle enzymes? The lack of response to hoof testors and no bounding pulse do not rule out bruising or mild founder, I see it all the time. But it makes the diagnosis harder so other possibilites must be ruled out to increase the confidence level of the diagnosis.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Monday, Jan 20, 2003 - 7:36 pm:

Hi, Dr.O. my gelding is still pretty lame, I was cleaning his feet today and found in the lf right by the corner of the frog and heel black oozy stuff deep in the frog crevice. It smelled like something climbed in there and died.(literally). I have smelled thrush before and this wasn't it. He also had it in his rr hoof. same place. I have been cleaning his hooves regulary and haven't noticed this til today. Do abcesses act and smell like that? Unfourtanetly it is way to cold here to soak. Is there anything I can pack in there? Should I put a drawing agent or thrush medicine? Should he be on antibiotics? He is up on tetnus.(read your article) I have to wonder if the hind end swelling (which is better) is from not moving? still no increased digital pulse. Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 21, 2003 - 6:12 am:

From here Diane, I cannot say whether you have bilateral thrush (common) or a bilateral abscess (rare). Bilateral black smelly stuff sounds like thrush to me. Diagnosis and treatment recommendations for thrush are found at » Equine Diseases » Lameness » Foot and Sole Problems » Thrush. But if you are uncertain as to the diagnosis and significance (thrush is usually not painful unless long standing and penetrated to sensitive tissue) you should have your vet look at it: does he dependably jump f you try to clean it out with a hoofn pick?
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 - 11:35 pm:

Hi, Dr. O. my gelding is getting worse, I am starting to get his lameness sorted out as to tell whether it is compensation or the true cause. I am starting to believe it is a neuro problem. His right front is jerky and he doesn't seem to know exactly where it is all the time, same with the right rear, he doesn't drag it. He just doesn't seem to have complete control of them. He doesn't move all day til I go out and make him move some. He stands with his front squarely under him, but the rf will quiver some with weight bearing. In the rear he is always shifting his wieght from one side to the other and stands with the rr inside almost standing on his lr hoof. Does epm affect both right and front? Does this sound like any kinda spine injury? I did read your articles on these and he matches some. The farrier was out Tues and Hoof tested him and all 4 were neg. When he picked up his left front he leaned back and almost collapsed.He did not hop just leaned back and wanted to fall. 2 gr. bute seems to help some. I had equine vet out 3 times now and all I have is a big bill and absolutely no diagnosis. He keeps thinking its his hooves, but he clearly don't have the common signs of founder. The farrier said he definately don't think it's his feet, he has from the beginning thought it was his shoulder. I am having another vet tomorrow that is suppose to be pretty good. This horse is very stoic and tolerates pain well, but he is getting wore down. When he tries to walk he gets so discusted he starts throwing his head.He can't take more than 2 steps at a time. He will not even walk to the water. Hopefully the vet tomorrow can give me an idea as I believe I will have to put the poor guy down as he is suffering tremendously. Any ideas? I have to start grasping at straws now. Vet school just isn't in the budget. Thank you
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 31, 2003 - 4:50 am:

Diane,
You are not grasping at straws Diane. The first vet was unable to figure out the problem so you are getting a second opinion. This makes good sense to me. The article on The Diagnosis of Lameness takes a logical stepwise method by which to figure this out. Try and follow it tomorrow and at least lets get which leg (legs) is (are) lame down, the results of a good physical exam on that leg, and if the lameness is not evident at that time nerve blocks to above the ankle. It will be a good start.
DrO
Member:
Scooter

Posted on Saturday, Feb 1, 2003 - 10:13 pm:

Hi Dr.O. thought I would let you know what second vet had to say and he gave a very good exam. He picked it right out his right front is the worse then his right rear, it is founder, probaly road founder from being run on the frozen ground. He tested very ouchie to hoof testers hardly any pressure sent him thru the roof. He found a bounding pulse in all 4 feet with the right front being worse and the rears minimal. He still stands square and doesn't park out must be because the front and rear are affected. He is now in deep bedding and today I put 2 layers of the styrofoam pads on which gave immediate relief, he actually moved on his own. He is about 50# overweight so on a diet he goes also. Vet said to give him 3gr bute a day at one time as I am unable to get out there in the morning, except my days off. He said 3gr for 3days then 2 gr a day til things are under control, then back it off some. Odd he tested neg to hoof testers for farrier and vet #1. Unless it was mild then and got worse. This was a very unusual case of founder not textbook at all and very hard to pick out. Does "road" founder act differently than grass founder? Is it usually more severe? Thanks for your advice as usual it has been very helpful.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 2, 2003 - 8:53 am:

It all depends on the severity of the bruising Diane, have any readiographs been taken to check for rotation: an imortant diagnostic and prognostic tool.
DrO
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