|
|
Discussion on Strangles - maybe?
|
| Author |
Message |
New Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 11, 2007 - 4:50 am:
I've read the article on strangles, as well as some of the previous posts about it. I still think I could use some advice on our situation (sorry, it might get long)...
About 3.5 weeks ago, we had a new horse move into the barn where I board. Almost immediately, he was off his feed, which initially was attributed to upset over the move. After about 4 days, his temp was (finally ) taken - 103.5. No nasal discharge or cough was noted during this time. Gave bute for fever.
Because the fever returned when bute wore off, vet came out a few days later -- this is not my horse, so I don't know details, just that he started him on 5 days of uniprim. The next day, the horse got a mild snotty nose, which cleared up within 24 hours. Fever subsided and he was eating.
I start checking my horses' (I have 3 at this barn) temps daily, and watching for signs of illness (none yet).
2 days after the new horse completed uniprim, we find out that barn where he moved from has a bunch of sick horses, and one has just been confirmed (thru labe tests) as strangles. I verify this by talking to the vet treating that barn (not my reg vet).
Next day, my horse (2 stalls down from new horse) has a fever 102.0 and not eating as well as normal. My vet is not available, so call vet involved in other barn's strangles outbreak - he advises me to treat right away with a course of uniprim (to head off strangles) and banamine for fever (my horse cannot have bute). Continue monitoring temps.
My horse with fever continues to have variable low grade fever for next few days, going down when I give banamine, then back up as it wears off. On 4th day, temp is at highest, 103.3, gave banamine, and next day and all since, temp is normal. No other symptoms develop - no swelling, no discharge, no cough. He has had 10 days of uniprim, and 5 days without a fever, so stopped uniprim today on vet's advice.
In the meantime, new horse has nasal swab taken and sent to lab. He's been fine since completing antibiotics 4 days earlier, but day after nasal swab, he develops a low grade fever (102.5). Vet now advises a 14-day treatment of uniprim -- says cases at other barn have needed longer treatment. He has a fever for about 2 days, then has been fine ever since - no fever, no discharge, no swelling.
Another of my horses developed a fever earlier this week of 102.8. At vet's advice, used bute for fever and started uniprim for him. Next day, temp is normal (bute, I suppose), then goes to 102.8 the next day (gave bute), 101.6 next day (gave bute), normal next day (no bute), and 102.8 today (gave bute). He has shown the slightest clear nasal discharge and nothing else (glands fine, no cough).
Another horse in the barn developed a fever the day after my 2nd horse - 102 and not eating. Started uniprim and bute - next day fine, day after back to 102 (gave bute) with a slight cough, today 102.6 (more bute) and coughing a little again only after eating.
Now - the nasal swab I mentioned back there -- we find out yesterday that it never got to the lab (lost by Fedex or ??)! So we don't have a lab result for this horse, but several now from the barn where he came from have come up positive for strangles.
I read the strangles article and did ask why we were using uniprim rather than penicillin and this vet said they had done a sensitivity and uniprim worked against this strain (at the other barn), and is easier to administer.
But I can't help but think that if these horses continue to run fevers after several (3 to 5) days of antibiotics, then does that mean maybe it is something else that they have? And since none at our barn have had the classic strangles symptoms, does that mean perhaps it isn't strangles? All of these horses have received the I/N vaccine.
Would doing another nasal swab help at all, since the one original horse has now been on antibiotics for a week? Should I be concerned that my one horse is continuing to have a fever now that we are 5 days into treatment?
We do have all isolated, and continue to monitor temps on all horses in the barn.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 11, 2007 - 9:40 am:
Hello Lucy,
Yes if the signs are not typical and the disease not responsive to something it should respond to you should revisit the diagnosis, for more see Diseases of Horses » Respiratory System » Nasal Discharge, Cough, and Fever.
DrO}
|
New Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 12, 2007 - 1:09 am:
Thank you for the response, and I did read that article, plus the ones associated with the various diseases. Now we have a new development, related or not...Horse down the aisle (not mine) was having facial twitches today (like a periodic flick of the head), and his lip is slack on one side. This is a horse that we have been watching closely since this began as he is the only one not vaccinated for strangles in the barn. So I know he has not ran a temp and not had any discharge or other signs of disease. The owner spoke to her vet and they advised bute and dex and then bring him in tomorrow if he is not better. However, I do not think she (owner) told them about our other respiratory problem horses. Now having read all the articles, I'm worried that it could be a sign of neurological herpes - is that possible? He is walking and seems fine in the hind end and I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that was where we would see the issue first. Temp is normal and no discharge. He's not mine, but I am watching all this worrying about my 3 horses there in the barn.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 12, 2007 - 7:43 am:
Asking what "is possible" is not often a useful way to solve a medical problem because most things are possible. Most often the neuro-form of herpes is preceeded by signs of respiratory disease or at least fever. However when you watch horses more closely than usual, you can see all kinds of things you did not notice before.
DrO
|
Member:
boomer
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 12, 2007 - 12:33 pm:
We've had that in my barn too and I think it's just a cold virus. The horses all got past it and are fine. That other horse with a twitch I think most likely has an issue totally unrelated. I've had a rather hard experience with strangles and it doesn't sound like strangles to me, strangles is much more symptomatic and the snots are bad, plus weight loss is fast and of course the abscesses.
|
New Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 12, 2007 - 12:48 pm:
Dr. O - thanks, your answer is consistent with what my own vet is telling me today. The head twitch horse is supposed to be seen by a vet (not mine) today if things haven't improved. No fevers in the barn as of yesterday - I'll find out soon what today brings!
|
New Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 13, 2007 - 2:19 pm:
Just an update - the horse with the head twitch was completely normal after 24 hours. So hopefully that was just a freak thing that was unrelated to our other illness. Still have one horse that is continuing to have a fever after 6 days of antibiotics, vet says to continue a few more days and will come see her if not better.
The "missing" sample was "found" after sitting 10 days at the wrong destination and is being delivered to the lab today. That vet says it is still usable; my vet disagrees. We will hear what the results are in the next couple of days, but I think that a negative for strangles would be highly questionable after all that time - right?
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 5:14 am:
It depends on how the sample has been stored Lucy,
if at room temperature in the dark, Strangles is pretty robust so not a waste of time. You are right though a negative will not rule out Strangles.
More interesting would be a positive, I think the clinical signs and treatment response may be at least as important as the culture results in the diagnosis of the problem.
DrO
|
Member:
1sally
|
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 12:32 pm:
Lucy,
Strangles symptoms can vary greatly depending on the horse's immunity. I had strangles go through my barn years ago. All my 6 horses had been regularly innoculated with my stallion being immune as he had strangles as a yearling. One yearling got the disease with all the classic signs. Another yearling that shared the same stall with her showed no symptoms. A 2 yr old went off her feed for a day. An 8 yr old mare got a slightly runny nose and slight temp. for a day, and another 8 yr old mare and the stallion showed no symptoms at all.
|
New Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 1:43 am:
Owner of the original sick horse called to get the results today since the missing sample was due at the lab earlier this week...well, now it seems it never got retrieved from wherever it went, so it is now lost...
That horse has now been on antibiotics for about 10 days, last had a fever a week or more ago, and has had no other symptoms since at least 2 weeks ago. The 3 others that got sick after him are:
1) off antibiotics for a week and fine, never coughed or had more than a slight watery discharge,
2) on the 10th day of antibiotics and fever-free for 3 days, never coughed or had more than a slight watery discharge, and
3) on the 9th day of antibiotics and fever-free for 2 days, never had more than a slight watery discharge, but still with a cough (only when eating).
So now the question is, what do we do now? No new cases have shown up, so do we just wait a certain period and then go on like all is fine? Or do more tests (but will they show anything when all have been on antibiotics?)? I'll be asking my own vet, but curious if you have input. This has been such a frustrating experience, but hopefully turning out okay now!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 6:36 am:
Sally's post is note worthy about the variability of symptoms in vaccinated horses but this does not change the ability to make a tentative diagnosis based on response to antibiotics. You would expect any case prior to abscessing lymph nodes to respond to appropriate therapy quickly.
I agree that culturing at this point would probably not yield significant results, besides the antibiotics, the horses have recovered. If your goal is to get a diagnosis you should discuss the availability and cost of serological tests for the common respiratory diseases and consider running titers or paired titers.
DrO
|
Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 16, 2007 - 1:39 pm:
Thanks, Dr. O - I guess the goal for us is only to be able to say definitively it was or was not strangles -- we are currently operating under a self-imposed quarantine based on the other barn having confirmed strangles cases and we had the one horse move in and get sick. Now, we are faced with the question of whether we continue for 6 weeks as planned (thinking it was strangles) or not.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 17, 2007 - 10:27 am:
Run the serology for Strangles then Lucy, if negative you have your answer. If positive it may indicate recent infection, past exposure, or vaccination.
DrO
|
Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Friday, Mar 23, 2007 - 12:30 pm:
Just a short update, and not much of one at that! All the previously ill horses are doing okay after finishing antibiotics. No fever or other symptoms, so we think (hope) we are done with it.
The test that the one vet is suggesting is not the serology (I think he thought that wouldn't work since all have been vaccinated?), but where he would do a nasal wash and collect from that to test. Still trying to get a hold of my vet to talk about what he suggests (specifically for my two that were sick).
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 - 1:21 pm:
Levels on the test (higher for recent infection) or paired samples (remarkable changes in levels over a short period) can sometimes differentiate vaccinates from active infection. Important is the timing of the vaccination as very recent vaccination will imitate infection.
DrO
|
Member:
hosspoor
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 25, 2007 - 1:56 pm:
Two of the horses involved (not mine) were just recently vaccinated. First sick horse that came from the other barn (where they now have several confirmed strangles cases) was vaccinated at the old barn just before moving (not knowing that there were already sick horses at that barn). One of the horses at our barn was also vacc'd that same day.
I have another question, if you don't mind - I am buying another horse that has not had the strangles vaccination ever. I will not be bringing him to our barn yet, but will want to eventually (probably several months down the road). What should I make sure is done before he comes - the two strangles I/N plus some time for it to take effect or ? Any advice is welcome - thanks.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 8:33 am:
It depends on your goal Lucy. If your goal is to try and avoid Strangles infection at all cost yours would be a logical plan.
DrO
|
Member:
1sally
|
Posted on Monday, Mar 26, 2007 - 2:38 pm:
Lucy & Dr O,
I would like to add to my original post, that all 6 horses were immediately treated with antibiotics, including the "immune" stallion - just in case.
|
|
|
