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Discussion on Swollen/weird looking stifle
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Member:
fahren
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 13, 2007 - 3:56 pm:
I took my coming 2 y/o blanket off today and noticed that his right stifle looked very odd. At rest it was kind of "Popped" out so it looked like there was a fist under the skin on the top side of the bone. When I felt it he swishes his tail a bit and moved away. When he walked in the pasture he was moving normally. There was a definite difference in appearance from the right to left side. I tried going through the stifle questions and article, but nothing seemed to quite match. Maybe I was looking in the wrong place. I took a few pics but I dont know how helpful they will be. I brought him in while I read about stifle problem, but if he popped something out is it better to be out and moving around?
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 13, 2007 - 11:33 pm:
It does look swollen and/or fluid-filled, Zoe. Is he turned out with playmates who might have kicked him? I know you still have snow there, so is there ice underneath or anywhere that he could have slipped?
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Member:
fahren
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 11:19 am:
playmates and ice. It looks like golf ball is under the skin.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 2:51 pm:
Ouchie!
Obviously this is something for DrO to look at. But it did sorta put a red flag up when I read your post. But Im paranoid lol.
My filly has a swollen stifle exactly like that ... she has OCD. No limp and going to be 2 soon. Red flag up! She had it when I recieved her. I dont think the swelling came on quick though. Red flag gone now.
Darn youngsters and their mystery boo-boos!!!
All the best for you and your grey boy.
Leslie
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Member:
fahren
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 14, 2007 - 6:43 pm:
Thanks leslie.
I am curious to see what Dr. O thinks. I had the Vet out today, I wanted to wait... but it just looked SO weird. My vet could not really figure it out either. When he was bearing weight on the leg it felt hard and did not move, when he was resting the leg or when she flexed it she could move it around like there was some mass under the skin not attached. We did take x-rays and should know more tomorrow. I am paranoid also. We found a place to jog him and he was sound. She tried to flex him but he was not playing THAT game  Too much going on and having been in while everyone else got to enjoy the warm day... no fair!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 15, 2007 - 5:15 am:
Hello Zoe,
I had posted yesterday but apparently did not hit all the buttons right. The images are a bit difficult to read particularly taking in light your above comments as I really don't see anything the shape or size of a golf ball.
From the images there appears to be two areas swollen, one on top of the other. The lower swelling is directly over the femoropatellar joint. However I cannot from the photo if this represents swelling from the joint capsule or the subcutaneous tissues over the joint or both. The other swelling is just proximal to the joint and in the middle picture appears to run just into the flank but this may be artifactual as I don't see it that way in any other image.
The fact the horse is sound suggests this is not involving the joint and if palpation alone does not lead to a diagnosis, ultrasound might help.
DrO
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Member:
jwsmith
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:55 am:
What happened with this horse? This looks exactly like what I am dealing with. I am getting x-rays this week.
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Member:
fahren
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 3:37 pm:
HI Jeanne,
The x-rays, showed nothing, the ultrasound showed nothing, a puncture revealed no liquid. The vet told me to turn him back out and the swelling went down. He is fine now on his stifle, they though he just got bumped or something. Of course after this we are now dealing with his aquired flexural deformity of the Metacarpophalamgeal joint... It is never dull with this baby. I hope your stifle turns out to be nothing of alarm also, let us know!
Zoe
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 8:19 am:
Jeanne, be careful over interpreting from the image. There can be many causes of swelling that would look exactly like Zoe's images or put another way the appearance of the swelling is not diagnostic for the cause.
DrO
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Member:
jwsmith
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 5:11 pm:
Thanks Zoe and Dr. O.
This situation could be similar to mine. The reason I wrote to Zoe was to get a possible "head's up" as to what my mare may have. There are similarities in this situation to mine. My mare has an inch and a half mark right where the stifle joint (point) is. I am sure I am dealing with trauma. I am late to see it because she was lame with an abcess and I never picked up on the stifle. She has a very muscular build in the hip and gaskin. I really didn't zero in on the stifle when I was treating the abcess. Then when the abcess healed, she was slightly off in the hind. Then I saw it! This bony protrusion where, I believe the patella should be. Every time she walks, it pops up to the skin. She isn't locking up, nor really lame, like an ouchy foot. She does step carefully on same side inside turns. I can palp the area and it doesn't really bother her. I can grab the bony process and move it a little left and right and that doesn't bother her either. I don't know what it is, anticipating not good news. Hope it doesn't require surgery!
I will update. Vet is coming soon. I would love to submit a picture or two to show you. Her bony protrusion looks something like the second picture above.
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Member:
jwsmith
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Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:25 pm:
Here are two pictures that will give you an idea of what it looks like. I reduced the size and quality in order to post these, but they don't look that great. 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 7:21 am:
Hello Jeanne,
Let's take your statement "this situation could be similar to mine". If we assume the swellings really are similar, this would be possible. Considering the number of problems that have similar presentations however a more accurate statement is "they have the same list of rule outs but are unlikely to be the same disease". The more accurate information you have that matches between two cases the narrower the rule out list becomes and the more likely two horses have the same disease.
The reason I bring this up is that I really want our members to understand the role the Internet can play in helping them take care of their horses. I see so many folks making inappropriate diagnoses based on similar but limited descriptions from other horse owners on the Internet. There are very few disease presentations that have only one rule out and most simple descriptions of an abnormality have many possible diseases associated with them and when you add the worry of the owner with a horse with a problem this is a mistake waiting to happen. Do you see what I am saying, horse owners are often trying to diagnose the problem before they know what they are looking at. That is the reason on these boards we try to push education on principles of diagnosis, disease, and treatment so hard here. Through understanding the possible causes and how you differentiate them it helps make your assessment more critical and accurate, which is the first step to accurately diagnosing your problem.
Your case makes an excellent case study of these principles because your swelling, other than location, is so completely different than Zoe's. Can you see describe those difference? I want you to start with Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Swellings / Localized Infection / Abscesses » Diagnosing and Assessing Swellings in Horses.
If after reading this you will repost a brief case history and the above photos to a new discussion in this section I would love to discuss this case with you. Note you should reformat the "size of the images" to 400 to 500 pixels wide and post them with a blank line between them so they do not lap off the side of the page. For more on this see, Help & Information » Uploading Images and Files Into a Posting.
DrO
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Member:
jwsmith
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Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 10:03 pm:
Thanks! I understand completely.
I will start a new post this weekend and report the history of this and my vet's first findings. I really like this forum that horseadvice.com provides for us. I like and trust the vet team that I use but it is really interesting to share and get your input! Thanks again!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, May 25, 2007 - 8:18 am:
Great Jeanne, I look forward to a radiographic and possible ultrasound evaluation of what looks like a very firm swelling.
DrO
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