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  Discussion on Can horses get this on stall rest?
Author Message
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Sunday, Jan 26, 2003 - 2:54 am:

Hello Dr. O,
I have a 13 year old quarter horse with multiple problems, but, this one has me baffled. I have owned him three years and every summer he seems to be laid up with something.
Summer one:Pulled or strained superficial flexor tendon so was put on stall rest with bandaging, meds and a slow return to work. First incident of thumps or hypocalcemia occured when this guy was in his stall in a cool barn. Vet administered corticosteroids and antibiotics and pronounced him as having an allergic reaction to a virus or maybe didn't tolerate being indoors with a straw bedded stall. He recovered from the whole ordeal but it was scary seeing him not being able to breath normally. It looked like he was hyperventilating, hitched up his back end so he could position himself to get a deeper breath.
Summer Two: Recovering from a bout of laminitis with no rotation that was probably induced by carbohydrate overload. Mr. Horse goes to fat camp on a strict weight reduction program with no bran mash, no grain, no sweet feed, no complete feed. Grass hay and water and apples and carrots as treats were permitted. He did lose weight over the summer as he was put in a dirt paddock with a shelter and a good automatic watering system as well as frequent farrier visits and limited excercise. (Walking in hand) and then slowly walking under saddle. Late July early August of that year, 2001 was extremely hot and humid and my horse was not doing any endurance rides or excercise because of the laminitis recovery but again came up with the same scenario. I took his temperature 41celsius and called the vet. Again she administered steroids and antibiotics and said this was an allergic reaction to a virus. He recovered with about 10 days rest.
Summer Three:
Again, limited exercise because of caudal heel pain and bone spavins in hocks. This guy just seems to get it all! No incidence of thumps or hypocalcemia because I made sure he got cooled down with cool water if it got really hot or humid and have been keeping him on his diet. I have not to date supplemented with electrolytes. He only gets grass hay and water and gets apples and carrots as treats. A recent introduction of "Farriers Formula" was started about 6 weeks ago. My questions are: Can horses exhibit signs of exhaustion/overheating in a resting state and, if so, would this point to some other metabolic problems that need to be investigated? If you need more information about this horse and the things that "WE" (me, vet and farrier) have done for this horse I can provide it. I love your site Dr. O! I have gleaned a lot of hope and encouragement as well as good scientific information. Thanks in advance. Susan B.

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 26, 2003 - 10:05 am:

Thanks for the complement Susan. A horse can become overheated anytime he gains more heat than he looses. Can he do this while resting? Yes if the ambient temperature and humidity are high enough to prevent a horse from being able to cool itself. Horses exposed to high temperatures and humidity sometimes loose their ability to sweat making them even more sensitive to heat.

I have to admit that after your horse has had a bout with Thumps and then later a bout with Fever and having them both diagnosed as an allergic reaction to a virus, a diagnosis that is practically meaningless, and then treated with antibiotics and steroids, I am begining to worry about the quality of the diagnostic / therapeutic ability of your veterinarian: Thumps is not caused by a allergic reaction (did you mean heaves?) and viruses are not sensitive to antibiotics. It is most likely you have misunderstod what your vet has related to you.
DrO
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 12:00 pm:

Hello Dr.O,
Thanks for such a quick reply. I would like to clarify that with incident #2, "Laser" was also coughing a little and had a snotty nose, so he was probably running a fever with his horsey cold. He was not exhibiting signs of heaves, but did have the diaphragmatic flutter that you see in thumps. I don't think that I misunderstood the vet as she administered Azium, I.V. and also antibiotics to be given I.M. and said that he was probably having an allergic reaction from his cold (virus)? As to her diagnostic/therapeutic abilities, I too, have had my doubts and I am on vet #2 because of lameness issues that need professional care. Getting back to the thumps issue, how would I go about treating this or looking for more clues as to why he gets this. His diet is limited to timothy hay, water, "Farriers Formula", apples and carrots as treats and a salt/mineral block in his pasture. The term "electrolyte imbalance" seems to come up in a few synDrOmes such as tying up, anhiDrOsis etc. I was just wondering if there might be a few imbalances in his diet that is causing this problem. Thanks Dr.O Susan B.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Well it does sound to me like you have a pretty good handle on the veterinarians meanings was and it always saddens me to see such stuff going on.

The article on thumps covers your questions in pretty good detail, just back up one page, using the navigation frame above, and click on the link to the article. We also have an article on anhiDrOsis if you suspect it is the reason for your horses sensitivity to heat.
DrO
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 12:33 am:

Hello Dr.O,
Just to let you know that I haven't left this thread hanging, but, I wanted to reread all the articles on this problem. I don't think anhiDrOsis is really my problem as I live in Canada and it can get darn cold here in the winter. Our spring and summers over the last 2 or 3 years have been unusual ranging from too cool to dry and dusty and sometimes very high heat with humidity. I found a post in the heaves section from one of your members, Sherri L. Heuser and she was having similar problems with Tango. We are practically neighbours, so we have experienced the same weather. Getting back to the thumps episodes that Laser has experienced in the heat spell, I would like to point out that he was not exercising at the time but just lanquishing in the heat. I am having the vet out to assess this situation. Another thing that I would like to mention is that Laser has very large jowls or jawbones. A friend pointed this out to me and said maybe he was gelded later in life and retained his big stallion jawbones. This statement didn't strike me as unusual until I started researching this problem. Could these large jawbones be related to Bran's Disease or hypocalcemia? I would like to discuss with his vet about blood work being done to see what shows up or would I have to wait for another episode to occur to see any changes? I have only owned him for three years and I am learning everyday what is normal for him or not. At the moment he is just a slow moving vehicle that may have subtle things going on. Tying up, Colicky, Laminitic, Arthritis, Sore feet. I don't know anymore, they are all looking the same. Generally, he is lethargic and it doesn't take much to tire him out. No energy but he's never lost his appetite. Do you have any idea what other things I should investigate. I realise that you can't possibly diagnose over the internet but I hope you have enough clues as to what might be going on. Thanks so much Dr. O. I really appreciate your time. Susan Bilsky
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 4, 2003 - 8:34 am:

No I don't think Bran's Disease is likely, the disfigurment is irregular looking. Perhaps he developed anhiDrOsis somewhere down south and was then brought north: does he sweat when he gets hot? This problem always seems to be related to very hot weather ave you have documented a high body temperature at least once.

Performance is the end result of good health: any dysfunction of metabolism or organs can decrease performance. You do not start with a list of posible causes, it is too big. You start with a good physical and laboratory exam looking for problems. Sometimes this does not turm up the problem when not the article Equine Diseases » Lameness » Weakness, Exhaustion, and Overheating » Exercise Intolerence and Poor Performance gives you some other tests that can reveal the cause.
DrO
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 11:05 am:

Hello Dr.O.
Vet is coming out Thursday for HA I.V. injection. I will discuss these concerns with her as she has never seen the "Thumps" in my horse. Laser was born in Alberta, Canada and eventually made his way to Saskatchewan as told to me by two owners back, so I don't think living in a hot and humid climate is the problem. I have noticed these episodes when the temperature is high and humid, so it would seem he does not tolerate the heat well. He does get a little sweaty, but not dripping wet. I will see what the vet has to say about this and hopefully some lab work will turn something up. Thanks Dr. O Susan Bilsky
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 5, 2003 - 2:21 pm:

Hi Susan,
It will be interesting to know what the vet has to say about Laser. Tango's episodes also occur only in calm, hot and humid weather. He only sweats if the heavy breathing episodes happen during a ride where he will sweat quite normally, but then the sweat is caused from the riding I would say, and not necessarily from the heavy breathing. But when he is just in the pasture, the episodes aren't accompanied by any sweating. I should have mentioned to you earlier that a cold hosing always returns him to normal breathing, and really quite quickly, it's what causes the heavy breathing that I would be interested in knowing.
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Thursday, Feb 6, 2003 - 12:43 am:

Hi Sherri,
I have noticed the same thing. Laser can be just standing around in the heat when he gets these episodes. I found that last summer a cool to cold hosing would chill him out. The common denominator here is the high heat, which isn't unusual for a Saskatchewan summer. What is unusual is the humidity and no wind. Laser is not black like Tango, but he is an easy keeper and has a good layer of insulation. Hopefully, all they need is a tall, cold glass of Gatorade with an umbrella on top of course, and a cold shower :D
Will keep in touch as to what vet says or finds. Cheers, Susan B.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 6, 2003 - 6:59 am:

Heavy breathing is one of the ways a horse attempts to cool himself off when overheated. The fact that the horses respond so remarkably to the cold hosing is diagnostic that this is the problem.
DrO
Member:
Tangoh

Posted on Thursday, Feb 6, 2003 - 10:25 am:

Dr. O, I guess it's just that simple and all I can say is Amen to that and thanks for removing the fog from my eyes! Sometimes we look for the hard answer when the logical answer is right in front of our faces.

I think you're right Susan, it's not uncommon for the heat to be extreme here, but the humidity we've experienced here since last June is something entirely new to the area. Do you realize that even today, the humidity is 91%. I checked weather.com and got this reading for today. Explain to me then, why my skin feels like sandpaper before I slather on the Jergens every morning!

Combined with the black coat, and his body condition, I guess I've just got one 'hot horse', of course I've been telling people that since I got him. :-)

Thanks Dr. O and Susan. This thread has been very helpful in solving some of my concerns.
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Thursday, Feb 6, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Thanks Dr.O! Will see what his vet turns up and post back. Regards, Susan B.
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