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Member:
kstud

Posted on Monday, Mar 19, 2007 - 7:24 pm:

Not sure where to post this. Our fabulous 2 yo filly was found dead this morning, she was a full sister to Splodge the foal who cut himself badly last year so we are not having much luck with that mare, in fact her first foal was born a dummy foal, improved to apparently normal and at two weeks of age had a seizure and died! So out of three foals 2 are now dead and one injured.
This filly was wintered out with 3 more of the same age group. This is the first winter they were out as we keep all the foals in for their first winter and we have been following the same system successfully for years. They were summered on an outfarm and came home in October as fat as ticks. The 4 of them had 11 acres to themselves for winter which had been left aside and had lots of grass. From the beginning of December they were getting meal twice a day and ad lib hay as well. All were in good body condition. However the last few months have been very wet and windy and cold here and the field has been bare and so the feed has been increased. Over the weekend we had atrocious weather conditions, bitingly cold east wind and severe hailstorms, and ythis morning this filly was dead and the others were looking sorry for themselves. At this point I should add that our 6 broodmares are wintered out in another field and our 3 and 4 year olds in another filed and all these are absolutely fine. I was at work when she was found so I called a colleague who did a post mortem and found nothing and believes she died of exposure. The other 3 horses are now in the barn but my question is has anyone seen this before in a temperate climate like here in Ireland. It was a bitterly cold weekend but this is devastating and we are truly shocked. We had no indication prior to this that anything was wrong. It truly is climate change if this is going to happen here in Ireland, usually the worst you can expect is rain scald.
Member:
sonoita

Posted on Monday, Mar 19, 2007 - 10:30 pm:

Sorry to hear bout your loss. 2 yrs old doesnt sound to young to handle the cold. Maybe something else was wrong.
Happy Trails
Member:
imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 3:16 am:

Dear Catherine

I think I have some idea how you must be feeling. In 2003 I decided to wean a foal by sending her away rather than the removing the mare because I wanted to restart riding the mare. I visited her every day on a friend's farm, she was happy out, with a small group of mares. I missed one day when she was 6 months and I was about to bring her back home, which happened to also be a bad October equinoctial storm and a work crisis.

I found her dead the next day in the field. The weather was too crap/I didn't have the money to get a post mortem. I think she died of exposure or pneumonia but of course stroke would be a likelihood or possibly tetanus or a kick from one of the other mares but there was nothing obvious.

I got the hunt to collect her and I kind of also wondered if she could have got shot as a lot of people shoot down on that farm but the huntsman didn't say anything.

I felt absolutely shite about it as while I don't know why she died and you should always keep in mind the mortality rate for cattle, other livestock means it does just happen (you know that, you're a vet), you cannot fail to wonder if you got it wrong.

It has been an awful winter here this year, I have only just managed to get most horses off mud and hay to some marginal valley areas that we use at this time of year. Unfortunately I always take their blankets off at this stage (get caught on furze/branches) and I have felt very sorry for them the past two days although they are fed and have shelter. My own are in at night and tucked up in blankets.

Catherine, I don't think there is anything you could have done. A two-year old should have been able to take the conditions and others on this board will tell you how mild our climate is compared to what horses live in around the world.

I am so sorry about Splodge's sister, it is just rubbish luck. I know what you mean about the mare. I am currently rethinking breeding my Cavalier mare as in addition to one foal dead, the current 2 yo is only going too just make 15 3 or 16h despite both parents being 16h2.

But then like Splodge's dam, she's a quality mare, same Cavalier/Campaigner breeding as Ben About Time, the no. 2 world eventing breeding horse, and I have had offers from others who would like to buy her to breed from. Horses... why do we do it. It must be an obsession...

Imogen
Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 5:28 am:

Catherine, I completely agree with Imogen. In Holland [the weather can be very wet and cold and we do not have many hedges or walk in stables so the horses are completely unprotected] a normal in good condition 2 year old survives easily. It is common practice to leave them outdoors no matter what weather as long as they can be fed adequately and have a dry place to sleep.
It really must be bad luck or some disease or other you seem to have taken all the necessary precautions and more then that. Your other horses are proving this.
You just get unlucky from time to time[ and I must add with some families] been there too and often wondered why I didn't collect stamps.
So sorry for your loss and I hope Splodge is keeping up his return to health.
Jos
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 6:44 am:

My condolences Catherine. There are many things that would not show up on a routine post mortem. Can you tell us what all the findings were that were considered normal? From that we can discuss some of the other possibilities.
DrO
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 11:18 am:

Catharine, Since the colt was used to being out in the weather I think it unlikely the weather was too much for her. It sounds like she was in good shape.
How bad was the hail? Maybe a freak size hailstone hit her?
At any rate, you have had a bad run. You must be thinking pet rocks would be a better choice.
Member:
canyon28

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 11:41 am:

Wet windy cold weather, even if it is above freezing can be devastating to any warm blooded mamal. Including man. In fact the worst time to get hypothermia is when it is raining and windy and the temperatures are above freezing but below 50 F. I would be building some three sided sheds with the backs towards the prevailing winds if you havent already decided to do this. Here were I am, I am in a desert, but we get wet rains or wet snowstorms this time of year or in the late fall and the horses do definitely get very cold, shaking and trembling if they dont have shelter. I built sheds in every paddock with the open side away from the two prevailing winds we get here, southeast and northwest. I also feed very heavily when a storm like this comes in, and will even go out at 11pm or so at night to feed again.
I am sorry you lost your filly, but from what you described as the condition of the other young horses, I believe she did die of hypothermia. Young horses do not have the fat reserves that older adults do. they put all of their food intake into growing, not building fat. The filly could also have been debilitated from something else, but the weather and lack of shelter was the deciding factor, I think. Very sorry.
Member:
kstud

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 2:26 pm:

Thank you all for your condolences, and Lori I love your remark about pet rocks, that really sums it up!
Dr O, Only a gross PM was done but lungs and heart were fine, no stomach ulcers, intestines slightly paler than normal but no sign of damage or disease and no worm damage. This is one of the reasons that she felt it was hypothermia as she felt blood had been diverted away from guts. Brain was not examined, filly was in good body condition with sub. cut. fat and whilst not fat as she had put on a growth spurt, was certainly not thin either. Body condition 3 on a 1 to 5 scale from emaciated to grossly fat, would be a good description. However her stomach was virtually empty so she had not eaten for a few hours prior to her death.
I cannot emphasise how bad the weather was though, we had gale force winds with pea size hailstorms that lasted a good 36 hours with no respite from the wind and if it was not hail, it was snow or sleet. There are very high hedges and a stand of trees in that field but no actual field shelter, however the haybarn backs onto that field and a little wood and in bad weather the horses crowd into the wood with their bums against the hay shed and it is very sheltered. The surprise was that she was found right on top of the hill which of course is not sheltered at all. The hay feeders (3) are all up on that hill as it is the driest spot and we wonder did she remain up at the feeder when the bad weather started and just got so chilled she could not make it to shelter. That field is easily seen from the sitting room but I can honestly say that you could not even see past the garden wall all day, the weather was so bad.
My husband put feed out twice on sunday as usual but he did it with his head down out of the wind but was sure that all 4 were there. He now wishes he took a closer look but never in a million years would you expect a healthy horse to die from a bit of bad weather like that. I am inclined to think it was the weather too though as when we brought the other 3 in, the filly who died, her companion was virtually in shock. Weak thready pulse, low body temp, blank eye. Liam put her in a deep bed of straw with the infra red lamp on her and by the time I came home she was bucking around the stable and looking for her pal. The wind chill factor would have been severe and strangely when she was found the dead filly had an iced up coat like she had been wet through rather than just pelted with hail etc. Just thinking as I go along but I wonder did she slip and fall in a pool of water (normally none, but a couple due to constant rain in all fields), that might explain why she could not combat the cold, in fact that makes a lot of sense, especially if she pulled something and was lame and maybe reluctant to go down the hill then. I know that is only guess work but it breaks my heart that I was sitting in my warm house and this poor filly was in trouble in the field and I did not know.
Thank you all again for your kind thoughts,
Catherine
Member:
kstud

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 2:51 pm:

Imogen,
Meant to say don't give up with your mare. How about trying her with Cruising as Cavalier / Cruising offspring are highly sought after. Or what about using Cruise On, sire of Splodge? He is by Cruising out of a Grade A Clover Hill mare and he jumped to Grade B before injury. John Ledingham raves about him and he has a fabulous temperament and he breeds huge off spring. We have a few here that are elephants! Just a thought,
Catherine
Member:
jockyrdg

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 3:20 pm:

just a question on hypothermia, folks. Having spent endless summers hiking Mt.Washington, I had it drilled into the brain that if one did get hypothermia reason went out the window. Disorientation would set it and it was not unheard of to see hikers with hypothermia taking off the only layers keeping them warm. Do other animals become disoriented with hypothermia as well?
Concerning the wet through and through- I have Icelandics with an inner and outer coat, but if the wind really blows while it it a hard rain as well, the hair initially blows up and the skin gets wet. Do you think that a possibility with the winds you were describing, Catherine? I sympathize with your loss, it is always a hard time.
Member:
imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 3:21 pm:

Thanks for the positive afterthought, Catherine. Cruise On sounds like a good possibility - I have never been able to get a response from Hartwell Stud when I tried to contact them about Cruising before so I assumed that you had to be a "known" breeder before they would talk to you and gave up. I'll try again... and check out Cruise On as well.

I just wanted to say I know what you mean about "and I never heard her call" guilt. I was so absolutely rageing that on that one day of all days I did not make the extra effort (due to a difficult client and the storm...) to go over. A friend of mine said how ironic it was when she can think of many people who do not look at their horses from one month's end to another here.

Maybe I could, if not have saved that filly, prevented her pain. I'll never know if she died fast or slow, and neither will you about your filly, and in the end there isn't any point in worrying about things you cannot control.

It's still tough and very sad.

All the best

Imogen
Member:
boomer

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 3:50 pm:

Wow, how devastating. I am so sorry for your loss.
Member:
jd1947

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 7:11 pm:

Catherine,
I am very sorry about your filly. My heart goes out to you.
Hang in there...
Member:
lilo

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 20, 2007 - 7:36 pm:

Catherine,
My condolences on the loss of your filly. It is tough whenever we lose an animal, and worse if we blame ourselves for it. I would have said that a healthy 2 year old should have been able to handle the bad weather - there may have been other factors playing into it.
So sorry,
Lilo
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 - 6:13 am:

Catherine while the lack of findings on PM would be consistent with hypothermia, it is not that uncommon with acute death of other and unknown causes. As already commented neurological disease or heart failure can both leave little in the ways of symptoms. However I have seen cold adapted horses easily survive much worse cold than you describe even taking into account your rain and wind.

It is always a mistake to draw firm conclusions from too little data. A chronic systemic weakness over-stressed by the weather makes a believable but very hypothetical explanation. Let me ask one last question. Was there any other livestock (cattle, calves, foals) from farms around you that died in this storm?
DrO
Member:
kstud

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 21, 2007 - 11:23 am:

Hi Dr O, Thank you for your reply, yes our neighbouring farmer, in fact in the very next field lost several month old lambs. We are the only place for miles with horses and there are no cattle out around here yet, they are all still in sheds. Mind you we did not lose any lambs and our sheep were in a field the other side of the big hedge from those horses.
Member:
hwood

Posted on Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 - 12:13 am:

Catherine,
A big hug to you on this one.
The filly's death is a mystery . . . I can truly understand your remorse and shock over losing her in such a bizarre manner. Life is hard sometimes, isn't it? Forgive yourself, take whatever lesson comes from it, and move forward . . . some things we just can't know.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 22, 2007 - 6:26 am:

Loosing month old lambs to the cold is not that odd Catherine and I don't think significant as it relates to trying to figure out your horse's death. Maybe more significant would be if most of the lambs made it, it was not cold enough to bring down a healthy 2 year old horse.
DrO
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