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  Discussion on Leptospira, B-vitamins, and long-chain fatty acids
Author Message
Member:
3rsatsmf

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 26, 2003 - 12:10 pm:

Dr. 0 -

My horse was diagnosed with uveitis due to leptosporosis. Very high titers 1:3200. So, I set out to learn about these nasty little spirochetes... One thing I read is that their nutritional requirements include B-vitamins and long-chain fatty acids.

I've been giving my horse RedGlo (HIGH in B-vitamins) and flax oil (for his flaky skin). Flax oil is all omega fatty acids! Could I have been advancing his lepto without even knowing it?

He's on a course of doxycycline. That should get rid of all those ugly guys but I'm wondering if you would recommend discontinuing the RedGlo (could easily change to Lixotinic if he's still anemic) and the flax oil? Don't want to give them a fighting chance.

Do most spirochetes (or in general bacteria) require B-vitamins and long-chain fatty acids to thrive or is this a particular requirement of lepto? I guess that will help in my decision, along with your valued opinion.

Thanks and actually the lepto titers were good news for us!

Joni

P.S. - Please move if there is a more general lepto discussion area, rather than uveitis. I couldn't find one.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2003 - 8:47 am:

Hello Joni,
Though the question is intriquing, we are not aware that nutritional supplements may encourage bacteria by providing nutrients that they need. It is a complicated question however and it may be possible, but if you believe these are essential to your horse it does not make sense to restrict the nutrient intake of your horse. Poor quality skin and anemia may suggest a basic defect in your dietary components: are you feeding good quality forage?
DrO
Member:
3rsatsmf

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2003 - 3:26 pm:

Hi Dr. O.

Thank you for your response. Friesians are known for flaky skin and I'm just giving it to him to keep him more comfortable. Everyone comments on how he shines!

My vet's comment on the anemia is that she finds it common in the draft breeds, and wasn't at all concerned. I guess I just want him to have all the nutrition he needs.

He gets very high quality timothy/grass hay mixture. Plus, I give him alfalfa as a treat. The barn we are at is definitely a high-end place; they don't skimp on a thing.

Thank you for your comments. I'm continuing his supplements but just wanted to pose the question. I found it an intriguing idea as well.

Joni
Member:
Garnet

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2003 - 6:22 pm:

Have you had his tyroid function checked. Skin disorders are common manifestations of hypothryoidism in humans, dry flaky skin and poor hair quality. Not sure about the anemia but a test is not expensive.

It can also be related to poor immune function so there is a possible connection to the uveitis. Be sure to have a complete panel run, TSH, Free T4 T3 and Bound T4 T3. My experience with giant breeds of dogs tells me that even low normal values are to be suspected since there are no absolute values for Thyroid and it can vary with the individual and the conditions. Retesting is often necessary to fully establish a connection. Finally in some laminitic founder prone horses that have cresty necks and are easy keepers the tyroid levels, that are initially low, often repsond to Magnesium supplementation. This same thing has been found in humans as well, with some having to go off T4 supplementation when Mg is therapy is undertaken.
Member:
Garnet

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2003 - 6:24 pm:

Sorry forgot to say that the reason the people have gone off T4 supplements is because their Thyroid function returns and they become hyperthyroid on their old dose of supplement.
Member:
3rsatsmf

Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2003 - 8:21 pm:

Wow! thanks so much, what an interesting idea. Well, he's being treated for uveitis now, so a thyroid test should be covered. I'll for sure ask the vet to draw some blood on him when she is out the week for the recheck.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2003 - 6:38 am:

Hello All,
Garnet, you cannot check for thyroid function by testing t3 and t4 levels in horses and hypothyroidism is an extremely rare disease in adult horses. For more on this see, » Equine Diseases » Endocrine Disorders » Hypothyroidism in Adult Equines.
DrO
Member:
Garnet

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2003 - 11:37 am:

I agree that there is disagreement on this issue. In human endocrinology you can get five different opinons from five different practitioners on thyroid issues. The board certified endocrinologists generally taking the most conservative position, at least that was my experience when being checked for thyroid issues myself. www.mercola.com has a good write up on the variablility of opinons and in fact has a whole forum of discussions on peoples' experiences, which reflect the lack of clear understanding of what the values in a panel even indicate is needed for therapy. Yet they persist and many are healthier.

I do know there are many veterinarians who are checking levels and using T4 supplelmentation or Mg supplementation and the conditions improve. Whether you call that true hypothyroidism or not matters little to the horse or the owner of a now healthier animal.

Cresty necked laminitic horess are some who seem to be repsonding to Mg suppelmentation and whose thyroid levels have increased to normal levels on this treatment. Some are given T4 but the Mg seems sufficient to suppot the natural increase in levels. At least that is what the preliminary studies are showing.

It IS unfortunate that we do not have more reserach in this area to make our paths more clear. But we do know there is an increase in thyroid issues across species and some feel it is related to toxic exposures. Personally I have no idea. But I do know animals whose lives have been saved from being put on suppelement, including some horses. Of course this is not scientific proof, but reason enough to look into these simple tests and treatments.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2003 - 8:35 pm:

I really do not know the issues in humans but in horses it is pretty certain: T3/T4 values have little diagnostic value in thyroid dysfunction. This is independent of the number of vets who do them. Though I too used thyroid supplementation for several years I did not see results that other have talked about but so far have not been demonstrated.

Currently the equine endocrinologist I speak to and read are more concerned about what the illogical supplementation of thyroid hormone may be having on our horses health than vice versa.

I am not sure what is the relation between magnesium supplementaion and Joni's problem of recurrent uveitis, but currently I do not know of any.
DrO
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