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Discussion on Cloudy, runny eye, constricted pupil
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Apr 11, 2003 - 3:23 pm:
While floating our horses' teeth, the vet noticed a difference in the eyes of our 13 yr old gelding, Yogi. The right eye appeared normal, but the left eye (cornea) was very slightly cloudy and the pupil was totally constricted. He appears to have no discomfort in the eye, no outward sign of pain. Both eyes have been periodically runny for about two years, mainly in the spring. They have been constantly runny thru this winter and still are runny. The vet in Virginia had us use an antibiotic ointment and he cleared up within a day or two. Since moving to Texas he has had some sporatic episodes which we treated with antibiotic ointment and he cleared up, but this time it came right back. He didn't seem bothered by it, so we ignored it. About a week ago, I noticed that the eyes looked different, but we were in the pasture and he took off and I didn't think any more of it. The vet gave us atropine to put in his eye until we can get him to the clinic on Monday for an exam. The atropine hasn't affected the eye, except to possibly make it a little cloudier. The pupil is still constricted. We put a fly mask on him in case his eye dilated. He rubbed the fly mask off, but he doesn't appear to be light sensitive and is not showing any discomfort. I have heard that there is a researcher (at Texas A&M ?? ) named Joseph Joyce DVM MS, who says that sometimes horses are misdiagnosed with uveitis when it might be a reaction to some other problem going on in the body that sometimes shows up in the eye, and that the treatment for uveitis may be the wrong thing to do. Don't know if that description is totally correct, just my interpretation of the information I got. I cannot find out anything about this vet online. Does anyone know of any research along these lines? DrO, do you think that continuing the atropine until Monday would cause any more damage, or for that matter if it is needed since the eye is not dilating anyway. Do you have any suggestions as to what (if anything) we should try to rule out? About 3 weeks ago, we took him to the vet for a sore on his sheath. They also found an inflamed lump on his penis and many white bumps in the area of his penis near the sheath. Blood tests showed high white cell count, antibiotic (Penicillin) cleared up the infection (the lump) and also the white bumps went away. The sore on his sheath was slower to heal, but it did heal. Biopsies of the lump and the white bumps (vet thought possibly SCC) were negative. His diagnosis was that the sores were due to allergic reation to insect or foreign body (cactus thorn?)that became infected. I only recite this in case it is related to the eye problem. Any info/opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 12, 2003 - 9:34 am:
Hello Kathleen,
Your post above contains some basic misunderstandings that need to be cleared up. It is important to understand that "uveitis" is not a diagnosis. It is a description of pathology meaning: inflammation of the uveal structures of the eye. Very loosely this is the structures from the iris forward. Any cause of inflammation including trauma, infection, cancer can all cause uveitis.
"Recurrent uveitis" is a disease difficult to positively diagnose but pretty easy to recognize: unexplained recurrent episodes of uveitis. Your horse had these. One of the sequelae to such episodes is seneceae or tags of the iris that bnd to surrounding structures: yours has bonded to the opposite side of the iris and contracted the pupil closed. This is pretty common. Unless the atropine can break it open there may be little you can do, though I wonder if there are not surgical, particularly laser, fixes.
This is all explained in greater detail in the article on recurrent uveitis.
DrO
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Member:
Garnet
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 12, 2003 - 12:25 pm:
Kathleen,
I am dealing with Equine Recurrent Uveitis (ERU) in my 13 yo TWH gelding. He has had 3 periodic episodes that I recognized in the past 18 months and probably has been having episodes for up to 8 years, looking back at his eye symptoms that I mistook for flies, allergy or dust related. The origins may be viral, parasitic, bacterial or trauma -- no one knows. But once the integrity of the eye is breached it seems that it is susceptible to recurring episodes of inflammation.
Wind, dust, worming, vaccines, stress among other things are thought to trigger episodes. Uveitis occurs in humans as well, often goes unrecognized for what it is and little is known to affect the course of the condition.
From an email communication I received from a Health list:
"The histopathology of ERU diseased eyes
revealed that the infiltration was driven mainly by lymphocytes with a Th1
phenotype. Recently, major progress was made by demonstrating strong
autoreactive responses of T cells from horses with ERU to interphotoreceptor
retinoid-binding protein (IRBP), another autoantigen in human autoimmune
uveitis. Vitreal-derived lymphocytes reacted frequently to IRBP-derived
peptides in in vitro proliferation assays. The immunohistopathology of ERU
horses revealed a breakdown of the blood-retinal barrier and a major
pathogenic role of T cells in intraocular inflammation."
After the thrid known episode in January I decided to pursue more aggressive treatment than the holistic approach I had been using under the guidance of two respected holistic vets. I spoke first with Dr.Joyce at TAMU Large Animal Clinic, as I live 3 hrs from College Station. He is studying ERU and various treatments. None are truly efficacious as far as arresting the progression of the condition or preventing recurring epeisodes consistently. Some of the anti-inflammatories have some severe side effects over the long haul. He uses a 2% Cyclosporine Topically, well above the ususal 0.2% solution, but Dr. Millichamp said nothing topical is going to penetrate the eyeball. Dr. Joyce specializes in opthamology but is not board certified.
However Dr. Millichamp, of the TAMU Vet School Small Animal Clinic is board certified. He is participating in the Cyclosporine implant study being conducted by Dr. Brian Gilger of North Carolina State University Veterinary School. Just two weeks ago Dr. Millichamp came to my farm and examined my gelding to see if he would be a candidate for the implant. One eye is and the other had a cataract and adhesions so it was not.
It is thought to be the T Cells, normally desirable immune cells, that set up this recurring cycle of inflammation in the eyeball. Cyclosporoine has the "side effect" of suppressing T Cells, a bad thing in systemic use, but a good thing in ERU. The Cyclosporine implant is limited to releasing the drug in the eye only so it does not reach the systemic circulation and suppress T Cells there, which would be a problem if it was able to do that.
I asked Dr. M. about Vitrectomy and Cataract Surgery. Both he said had too many side effects to be a good risk, in his opinion. I am certain you could get better information directly from Drs. Millichamp or Gilger. I have spoken to Dr. Gilger on the phone and he was quite informative and willing to talk about the study and my horse. Dr Millichamp stays pretty busy but if you persist you will catch him at a good time, just be patient but keep calling. He is in clinic after 10 or 11 AM most days CST. He is at his clinic in Austin, TX Wednesday and Thursday so you might want to try and email him or call TAMU on other days.
Dr Gilger can tell you if anyone in your area is doing the implants. If you are interested in this treatment that is. Beleive me I have reserached all other treatment options and the condition throroughly. Dr. M. also keeps up with all the research in horses, dogs and humans. Our discussion during the exam further confirmed my impressions from the research I have done regarding treatment options.
The implant surgery is in the second phase of the study. The first phase involved putting a free floating implant in the vitreous humor. It was a more invasive surgery according to Dr. M. The next phase in which we will be participating involves placing a smaller implant under the tissue (sorry I am not clear on exactly where), but it does not breach the integrity of the eye ball itself and is therefore less risky, less complications, smaller implant. The first phase has had an 80% success rate. The cost of the surgery is $1000 +/-, the implant is probably free, the operating room charges, anesthesia and board with possible ICU care if needed will be additional.
The recovery is fast and easy. My horse may be able to come home the day after. Since Dr. M has examined my horse he will call in pre-op medications and I will keep him here and administer them for a few days before the surgery. Basically they are anti-inflammatory meds.
For the study Dr. Gilger has requested ERGs (electroretion grams) and Leptosporosis titers. We will do the titer but likely not the ERG as Dr. M said it will not yeild significant informatoin for us and he does not feel it is warranted for an outside horse owner to bear the expense or stress of the procedure. He left the ERG up to me. I have performed ERGs on animals so I know what they are and understand the choice. I declined it as I want to spare my boy any additional stress or prolong his time under anesthesia.
If the Lepto Titer is high they will do Doxicycline antibiotic for three weeks before the surgery according to Dr. Gilger.
Dr Brian Gilger
cvm-opth@ncsu.edu
NCSU Col Vet Med Opthamolgoy 919.513.6659
Dr. Millichamp
Email at TAMU: njm@tamu.edu
TAMU Small Animal Clinic 979.845.2351
I have used Homeopathy, nutritional support and herbal remedies to get him through these episodes with some success. But they will not stop the progression of the condition. Heavy metal detox, chiropractic and homeopathic constitutional treatments have been reported to have some success but there are not enough reports, with enough detail to lead me to delay implant surgery for my horse at this time. I will likely pursue the latter three after the surgery anyway since it can not hurt and is within my means. I also am very interested in holistic medicine so it is a personal choice to learn more about it. Accupressure massage is also a tool that the owner can use, but again, not specific enough to ERU for me at this point.
I am in the process of setting up the implant surgery, probably will take him in a couple weeks, accoring to Dr Millichamps schedule. I will let you know how it goes. If you want to email me privately please feel free to contact me at any time. garnetridge@earthlink.net
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 12, 2003 - 5:24 pm:
I do not believe there is any physical evidence that homeopathic preparations are a useful medical solution to any problem. I know of no herbal, extra-nutritonal, or chiropractic procedures that are likely to be of any benefit in this condition.
Careful explanation of the above procedures described by Garnet are in the article on recurrent uveitis. referenced above.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 13, 2003 - 10:08 am:
Thank you DrO and Garnet,
DrO, you are right, I was confused. But I think my misunderstanding was probably even more basic. I had a mare with ERU and as I remembered her symptoms and treatment, thought that since Yogi was not exibiting any sign of discomfort, that his eye was not inflamed. But I now realize that I didn't think it through. I copied the information from this site and read through it quickly and apparently missed some important info. I will read it again more thoroughly.
I have another question: We checked the atropine given to us by the vet and noticed the active ingredient is Atropine Sulfate (1%). Yogi is allergic to Sulfa medications. Is this a problem?
Garnet,
I will contact you by email. We may be "neighbors". We live in San Antonio.
Thanks again, Kathleen
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Member:
Garnet
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 13, 2003 - 4:08 pm:
Yes please do contact me Kathleen. I am just 45 minutes north of 1604 off 281. My husband comes to SA to work every day. Would love to share info with you about the surgery as we go through it. I know Dr M just received four implants so if you are thinking it might be an option for you I would contact him asap. The sooner the better for preventing cataract and adhesions, also retinal degeneration. All of these will preclude him being a candidate for the implant as this is what you are preventing by the implant, these are the changes that cause the blindness.
Good Luck!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 13, 2003 - 8:35 pm:
The question of allergy is a tough one, cross sensitivity is possible but not certain.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 13, 2003 - 8:53 pm:
Thank you DrO. Since we were not certain, we stopped using the Atropine. We'll talk to the vet tomorrow when he examines Yogi. Hopefully we haven't done the wrong thing, but at the worst we will have to start the Atropine again.
Garnet - Will contact you via email after we see the vet tomorrow. You can also contact me at dkenterprisedk@aol.com
Thanks again
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003 - 4:12 pm:
DrO,
Yogi went to the vet yesterday and apparently he is now completely blind in the left eye (he had some sight 6 days ago). Pupil is still constricted. The vet wants us to give him the Atropine 2x day for 10 days to see if it will begin to open the eye. Otherwise, he says not to do anything unless Yogi shows some pain or tearing of the eye. His eye was tearing when he first examined him and is still tearing, so I'm a bit confused. He also prescribed Silver Sulfadiazine cream for an erosion on his sheath that did not clear up completely with the antibiotic and that has started seeping again. I am still concerned about treating him with Sulfa derived medications. Can you point me in the direction of more information on whether or not it is advisable to treat him with these meds?
Thanks
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003 - 7:40 pm:
The problem is not lack of published information Kathleen: the problem is no one can know what part of the sulfer cotaining molecule your particular horse is sensitive to. It may be a part that looks similar to the current sulfer containing medication, or it may an entirely different part of the molecule: you could have your PhD in immunology and not be able to predict will the next sulfer containing medication be a problem. I have tried to see if cross reactions to sulfer medications have any reports in all species and in the largest medical databases on earth...all I get is no returns.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 15, 2003 - 11:19 pm:
Thank you DrO for taking the time to look into this. I guess, as in all things, the question is whether the possible benefit outweighs the chance of a reaction.
Kathleen
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Member:
Garnet
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 17, 2003 - 2:01 pm:
I talked to Dr Deziezyc (dee-zik), Dr Millichamp's partner and also a board certified vet opthamologist yesterday. The Cyclosporine implant will be Supra choroidal, implanted just above the choroid under the sclera. This is the second phase of the study. The first phase involved placing a larger implant free floating in the vitreous humor, in the posterior chamber of the eye. There was more risk with this procedure, the implant was larger and the surgery was more invasive. It was however an easier shorter surgery and could be performed in their stall. The supra choroidal implant requires longer anesthesia and an OR so more expensive.
I also asked her about cross reactivity to Atropine sulfate and sulfa drug sensitivity. She said she had never seen it and felt it was not a contraindication to using the Atropine. That in order to protect the vision in the "good" eye the Atropine is a good idea during a flare up. Runny eyes being an indicator of inflammation.
My gelding is scheduled for the implant Tuesday April 21. If anyone is interested I will post progress and results.
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Member:
Cassey
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 17, 2003 - 9:13 pm:
Hi Garnet,
Yes, please do keep us updated on the surgery and post-op progress.
Thanks,
Dee
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Member:
Jenny
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 7:56 am:
Hi Kathleen and Dr.O,
Kathleen, I find it very interesting that your horse's sight went so fast. That's exactly what happened to my horse. His sight had been going for some time. He has ERU. The right eye was his "bad" eye (noticably going blind, cloudy) and the left was his "good" eye (could see, tiny,tiny bit of clouding). Early last year he was being treated for an ulcer and a flare up. At that exam my vet told me that my horse's left eye was showing signs of clouding over and I should think about retirement because he probably had only about a year left of rideability and two of sight. The next week the left eye was blind.
Part of my horse's treatment was atropine and the vets kept telling me that I just needed to wait for the atropine to wear off, that it caused the pupils to dialate and he was probably just blinded by how much light was getting into his eye. My horse had never, ever had a reaction to atropine like that and I knew that was not what this was. I was told to call in a few days if there was no change. In a few days I had someone come out.
The vet who came out was not my usual vet, but she was from the same practice. She hadn't looked in my horse's eyes for about a year. Her exam resulted in no menace reflex, no reaction to light, nothing in the left eye. "Oh my goodness, this horse is blind," she said and "What do you mean you are jumping this horse! How can you be jumping this horse?" To which my response was, "I'm not jumping this horse. I was jumping the horse I had two weeks ago!"
There is nothing to be done now. I often wonder if for some reason my horse had an adverse reaction to the atropine during that treatment. Your post raised that question for me all over again.
Good luck with your boy.
Jenny
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 1:05 pm:
Hi,
Jennifer, yes Yogi's sight went very fast. His seems a bit different from yours in that the Atropine didn't dilate the eye at all. What did they say happened in the eye of your horse that caused the loss of sight. Just for information, did your horse have any vaccines soon before the good eye went?
Dr O and all, an update. I decided to get a second opinion and called my other vet and he set up an appointment with an opthamologist. The opthamologist (with the vet present) examined Yogi on Monday. He tried two other methods of dilating the eye, no luck. He said the sight is gone in that eye. His occular pressure is 8, which the opthamologist said is low. The way I understand what he explained is that due to the low pressure, there is a decline in fluid and that leads to adhesions which "glue" the pupil closed. He said there was probably no pain in the eye like there would be normally with uveitis. I asked how long this process would take to result in the condition of Yogis eye right now, and he said as little as 30 minutes, and that if the other eye shows any signs of problem dilating, Atropine should be used immediately to prevent the damage from progressing so far. He said when it gets to the point that the bad eye has gotten, nothing can be done other than surgery, which he didn't seem to recommend. I'm trying to understand, if it happened so fast, why the adhesions would be so strong that nothing will break them up. (I am doing some research of my own just be reassure myself that there is nothing that can be done.) He had blood drawn for Lepto titer and put him on antibiotic immediately. He explained that there has been a study that shows that even if the blood doesn't show any Lepto, the eye can still contain some remnant of the Lepto, so the blood test won't rule out Lepto, just give us a likelyhood that we know the cause. Yogi was also put on Prednisone, not for the eye, but for the lesion on his sheath that didn't heal. He is also still being treated with Xxterra for a group of sarcoids on his right side withers/shoulder. Another problem cropped up on Monday morning before we went to the vet. Yogi came in to breakfast very sore on both front feet, had a little heat in left front, much heat in right front and a strong digital pulse in right front. The heat and strong pulse were gone in about 45 minutes. We checked with the vet and the opthamologist and then gave him Banamine. At the 4:00 vet appointment he was walking normally except for an occasional 'give' in the right front when he seemed to step wrong. During the lameness exam, he was grade 2 lame on right front at trot, which progressed during the flexion to grade 3-4 and pretty much stayed that way. As of today, he is much worse and is not moving around except to get water. We are to take him in today and leave him so the vet can do some blocks and whatever else he needs to do to find out what is causing this. Founder has been ruled out and he has no swellings, heat, reaction to palpation shoulder to toe (except in the area of the sarcoid treatment).
Kathleen
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Member:
Jenny
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 1:21 pm:
Hey Kathleen,
I don't know exactly what the atropine did for my horse's eye. The vets told me that they thought that the pupil was probably dialated but you know, I just can't remember. That was when I was told to "wait it out". The right pupil was already frozen at the half way point and now the left eye is too. Not a bad place to freeze if they are going to.
I'm going to check my records tonight about the immunizations. That's a good point.
Jenny
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Member:
Jenny
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 2:36 pm:
Hey there,
Kathleen, I forgot to answer part of your question in my last post. The vet said that my horse lost his sight to a uveitis flare up. The inside of the pupil completely clouded up. It's the "why" did it happen suddenly that has me stumped. The right eye was so gradual. Now the right eye is the "good" eye.
Jenny
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 25, 2003 - 5:56 am:
Hello Kathleen,
From your original post it sounds like it was uncertain how long the pupil was closed by the time the vet noticed and attempted the first treatment with atropine.
Jennifer from your post I do not think the atropine was the problem but a progressive cataract that was already present in the eye and predicted to eventually lead to blindness. Had Kathleens horse cross reacted to the sulfer I suspect either remarkable local inflammation or possibly a systemic anaphalaxis reaction would have occurred.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Apr 25, 2003 - 3:29 pm:
DrO,
Yes, that is correct. There was no way for that vet to know, he's not an eye specialist and had never examined Yogi before. Our other vet had specifically examined both eyes three weeks before and saw nothing suspicious. It was the opinion of the Opthamologist that it happened very quickly. It is also our observation that the loss of sight happened quickly enough that he is having some difficulty getting used to it. Obviously it was happening before the Atropine, and I don't believe that the Atropine had anything to do with the cause or the progression of the blindness. We dealt with uveitis for years with one of our mares and she slowly lost sight in one eye and was slowly losing sight in the other eye. The loss of sight is the least of our worries. As I said in the above post, I'm curious about how fast the adhesions progressed to the point that they couldn't be broken down, if that's the correct terminology.
And by the way, the source of the lameness was found yesterday by the vet. It is an abcess. He was so lame coming out of the stall at the clinic that the vet checked the hoof again. He pared it out and Yogi is walking much better now. If we're lucky, that will be at least a happy ending to one of his problems. It sounds strange, but we were jumping up and down with joy that he had an abcess.
Jennifer,
Did you come up with any info on the timing of the immunizations?
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 26, 2003 - 8:09 am:
Not strange at all: there is little as satisfing as the squirt of puss when you first hit the infected pocket, knowing this horse will be better in a few days.
DrO
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Member:
Jenny
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Posted on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 9:39 am:
Hi Kathleen,
In response to your question about the timing of the immunizations, yes, my horse had his immunizations at the same time he had the eye exam that started the treatment of the ulcer and then the flare up.
I am glad to hear that you found the source of your horse's lameness. Hopefully he is feeling much better.
Jenny
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 29, 2006 - 6:35 pm:
An update on Yogi's eye.
We have been treating a few minor flare-ups for the last three years, but no real problem until about 3 months ago. When I noticed his eye was giving him trouble, I gave the routine banamine, atropine, gent, and pred. His eye cleared, then got worse, then cleared a little, then got worse. I just couldn't get him comfortable again. Twice we found him lying in the pasture and after giving banamine, he was OK. Took him to eye specialist, Dr Bonnie, today and the reason he was not getting better is that the pressure in his eye (which was 8 last time he measured it) is now 90. He has glaucoma and is in extreme pain. He explained what is going on, but I don't understand all of it, but know how to recognize when he needs meds. Dr Bonnie gave us Levobunolol DrOps and said we might see an improvement in a couple of days. If not, I can give him banamine until it starts working. Don't know right now if he will have to be on this new med permanently or not. DrO, have you run across a horse with eye pressure of 90? It sound awfully high to me.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 6:13 pm:
No Kathleen,
But I don't do a lot of tonometry. When I suspect glaucoma I usually refer to a ophthalmologist because there seems to be little available for effective treatment in horses, at least without complications. I can't decide if it is a rare or under recognized condition in horses. Sounds like a good subject for some in depth research and an update to the article. I should be able to get it done in the next week.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 30, 2006 - 6:51 pm:
DrO,
Dr Bonnie pretty much said the same thing, doesn't know if it is rare or not recognized. He said it sounded like a project for Texas A&M to test all horses who come there to see what percentage of horses have glaucoma without symptoms. In Yogi's case, he said his "lens is degenerating, the protein release is inflaming the eye. White spots in cornea are lipio deposits." He also showed me how to palpate the eyes to feel the difference. The normal eye is a little softer than the one with glaucoma. I just hope we can get him comfortable, he is in a lot of pain. Yet he is such a trouper, he allows us to treat his eye and give injections without any restraint. If he weren't so stoic, I think we would have recognized that this bout was different and that is why the meds didn't work. It is all a learning curve, and luckily our horses are so forgiving that sometimes we are a little slow to learn. Looking forward to the updated article.
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 3:01 pm:
Yogi did not respond to the eye meds, so eye doctor said next logical step is removal of the eye. He and my regular vet are coordinating the date and will get back with me. They are saying this week if possible. Yogi is still in horrible pain. The banamine helps, so vet said to give it until surgery.
Kathleen
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 6, 2006 - 11:01 pm:
Pulling for you both, Kathleen.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 7:51 am:
Sorry to hear this Kathleen. I'd like to relate a story that may make you feel just a little bit better about the loss of Yogi's eye. A few weeks ago, I went to a horse show and bumped into a young teenager I had known briefly from a another barn. At the time when we were at the same barn, she had lost all confidence on horse back because her mother had bought her a psycho pony that was very difficult to work with. Anyway,I had heard that she had lost her old horse to colic around Christmas and had found a knew horse sometime this spring. What I didn't know was this lovely horse she found had only one eye. I was amazed at this guy. In the midst of all the craziness that goes along with a show, he was calm and stoic, VERY sweet (kept mugging me for some trail mix I was munching on while talking to his owner) and what an amazing partner he made for this young girl! The arenas were pretty scary at this particular show. This horse was probably the most steady horse in the ring, performing exceptionally well for his partner. I was so proud of them both and I heard more than one person remark at what a nice pair they made together.
So, I wish you both well and hope the best for Yogi. With your TLC, he will be fine.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 8:02 am:
This will fix what I know has been an aggravating long term problem for you. One suggestion I have is that some do silicone implants to avoid the cavernous appearance when a eye is removed. I advise against them because I have had to remove several, sometimes years after they were put in because of infection.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 9:54 am:
Thank you Erica and Fran
We had a mare that my daughter rode in team penning and the mare had only one eye. It was a sight to see an Arab/Peruvian Paso cross doing team penning with her exaggerated leg action. But she trusted my daughter, so they did well together. This horse is also my daughter's. Both are bay arabians, go figure. Yogi has been blind in that eye for 3 years, so nothing will change there. I was hoping we could do this at some point because of all the flare-ups and the discomfort he was in sometimes. I hope it accomplishes what I want, and that is for him to be free of the pain.
DrO,
The eye doctor also recommended not to do the implant. He said they use tissue that is already there (I didn't understand that part) and there is a very small indentation. I can live with that as opposed to the alternative. I could live with a cavern if it came to that. I told the vet he could turn purple and it wouldn't matter as long as he is comfortable. Do you have any advice as to recovery? Dr Bonney said he would need to be confined for at least the first 24 hours to try to keep his blood pressure down. Other than that, I have not discussed recovery. I don't believe this is a very complicated surgery and don't expect any major problems.
Kathleen
PS here is a pic of one of his flare-ups (that is blood in his eye, not a reflection:
This is a pic of the sarcoid we had successfully removed from his side, just below and behind the withers. It took 3 cryosurgeries, but it worked. He also has a sarcoid on his sheath, but so far so good on that one.
So, I think he has gone through enough and with everyones positive thoughts, he will be OK
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 11:32 am:
Wishing you and Yogi all the best, Kathleen.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 6:21 am:
What the doctor meant was they did not do as aggressive an enucleation as is sometimes done. The main difference is that they leave behind the muscles to the eye to help fill the ocular space. This is a little more involved than simply taking it all out but I like it. Though I know this is not directed at your horses eye, for those looking for more information on glaucoma the new article on glaucoma is at Diseases of Horses » Eye Diseases » Glaucoma.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Sep 8, 2006 - 9:44 pm:
Thank you for explaining that, it makes sense. I haven't heard back from the eye doctor about when he will be scheduled. I read the article and it was very informative. Sometimes it's hard to relate what is in the article to your horse. It sounds like normally the glaucoma comes first, then the blindness. Is it often the other way around like in Yogi's case? I'll keep you posted, hopefully he'll be feeling better soon. The banamine is helping, but not enough. He is still very uncomfortable.
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 11:52 am:
DrO,
Can you come up with something that I could do to make Yogi more comfortable until his surgery? I am giving him 9cc banamine 2x day and vet said I can give a third dose per day. That doesn't seem to help much either. Sometimes I put a cool damp rag on his eye and he stands there like it helps, but I don't know. He has never fought our treating his eye, but now he doesn't even want us to touch it. He allows it, but only after letting us know that he would prefer us to leave it alone. What else can I do to make him more comfortable?
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 3:16 pm:
One more thing. His right nostril is snotty looking. I clean out thick yellowish runny stuff and dried stuff once or twice a day. The eye is still runny but clear. I talked to eye doctor Friday and he said as long as runny eye is clear, it is still OK for surgery. Does this look like something we should take care of before surgery or is it just drainage from the eye. It is just the left nostril.
BTW I checked on him a couple of hours after giving him the banamine and now he isn't even opening his eye at all.
Thank you
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 4:22 pm:
Kathleen, best of luck to you and Yogi. What a trooper he is - and so are you. I had forgotten this had been going on so long. What an ordeal for both of you.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 7:16 am:
Kathleen, here's hoping this ordeal will come to a comfortable end for you and Yogi. I'll be thinking of you both and look forward to your posts when you can tell us all how relieved he is.
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 7:51 am:
If the nasal discharge is persistently purulent, I would have it evaluated by the veterinarian Kathleen.
Assuming the pain is from the glaucoma, there are some topical NSAID anti-inflammatories for the eye that are outlined in the article on glaucoma that may be helpful as might be some of the specific therapies that lower IOP.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 9:20 am:
Thank you DrO
I will check out the topicals for the eye, I did not see that when I read the article. Can they be used with the Levobunolol DrOps? The eye vet (Dr Bonney - he does have a name, I should use it) told me to continue with the DrOps and I have started using them again, I missed a few days when he said I could give the banamine to keep him comfortable waiting for surgery. The nasal discharge has been this way for approximately 6 days. Do you think there could be something else going on in the eye besides the glaucoma? I cannot open his eye to look at it, he barely stands for the meds put in the corner of his eye and never opens that eye now (at least while I am near!). I will call Dr Bonney this morning and give him a report and see what he has to say.
Thanks again
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 6:59 am:
The medication question is really one for the ophthalmologist, though I do not know of any problems.
Left eye, left nostril, the degree of pain is a bit higher than I would expect with glaucoma alone... but the glaucoma is probably secondary to inflammatory eye disease that could be this painful. There are questions that should be considered by an examining vet.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 1:11 pm:
Thanks DrO,
I updated Dr Bonney a couple of times, so he is aware of all of this. Yogi is scheduled for surgery tomorrow Friday Sept 15. I have to take him this afternoon and they will start antibiotics, then the surgery Friday, then he stays overnight again and can come home on Saturday. Dr Bonney said something about enforced bed rest, marguaritas, snacks..... I asked, but he wouldn't let me join the party. I told him Yogi is too young to drink. His eye was completely open yesterday for the first time since Dr Bonney last examined him. I saw it while leading all three horses home from the pasture I rented while ours grows. I didn't get a good look because as soon as I stopped them, he closed his eye and wouldn't open it again. The short time I saw it, it seemed to have something square in the center of the eye, looked kind of like an ulcer maybe. I just got a very quick look, so not sure there was anything at all there. I guess we'll know tomorrow. Wish us luck.
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 2:43 pm:
Good luck to you and Yogi tomorrow! I certainly will hold you in my thoughts tomorrow.
I love Yogi's name, btw.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 4:04 pm:
Another good luck wish for an uneventful surgery and recovery!
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 5:05 pm:
Thanks Sara and Fran,
He is there now and they will do the surgery at 8:30 tomorrow morning. I wish I felt more positive about this, probably just me worrying too much. I'll let you know how it goes
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 8:06 pm:
Totally understand the worrying, Kathleen. Been there, done that! You've done all you can for now; have a glass of wine, watch a good movie, and say a prayer before you go to bed. He sounds like he's in good hands.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 9:44 pm:
Sara,
Had the wine and some fresh warm french bread for dinner and am off to bed.
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 3:39 pm:
Hi all,
Dr Bonney called me twice today, once before surgery and then after surgery (while Yogi was still asleep). He said he found so much damage and scar tissue that he had to take out everything and that the silicone implant wasn't even an option. There was extensive damage I guess. He said he would check him this evening and then call me again. He will be on much pain meds and antibiotics. He is not sure he can come home tomorrow as planned. He said he would take it one day at a time. He will stay there tonight and Dr Bonney will check him and make decisions from there. That's all I know right now.
Kathleen
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Member:
Warwick
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 4:03 pm:
Thanks so much for updating everyone, Kathleen. Sending lots of positive thoughts to you and Yogi. He certainly has been through the wringer.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 6:35 pm:
It is hard to imagine that following complete removal their will be any further complications. I believe your horse will has a good chance of becoming much more comfortable now Kathleen over the next few days.
DrO
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Member:
Pbauer
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 6:39 pm:
Dear Kathleen,
As I do not always get to all the posts in a timely manner, and unfortunately, some not at all.I was completely taken aback after reading about your situation. Thinking I would never have asked you to add something more to your encumbrance, i.e., being spokesman for the support of S. 1915.
If being spokesman is going to be too much, please don't worry about taking the position.
I'd like to add that you and your incredible Trooper are in my prayers.
Kathleen, I love the way you love your horses!
Thinking of you,
Tonya
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 7:00 pm:
Hi everyone,
Just thought I would post a couple of pictures of Yogi. These were taken two years ago. The eye was already sightless then. Just wanted to put a face to the horse you are sending your thoughts to.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 7:14 pm:
DrO
I hope you are right. I have just had a bad feeling about this, don't know why. I'll feel better when I can see him for myself and hear him do his soft nicker when he sees us.
Tonya,
Everything will most likely go just fine and I will still be able to help with the other problem, but maybe in a smaller way. Or, on the other hand, maybe I'll just get mad and go after it with all I've got. I guess we'll see.
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Friday, Sep 15, 2006 - 10:21 pm:
Hi Kathleen-
I don't know how I missed this thread, but I did.
You and Yogi are in my prayers. I am sending many positive thoughts your way.
Yogi is fortunate to have to you care for him...sounds as if it's been a long haul. I (like Tonya) love the way you love your horses!
Just keep your thoughts and energy on Yogi's healing for now. You get through this ordeal, and then we'll get started on the "other". First things first! I worry about YOUR health, too (ya' know?)  .
I'm hoping that Yogi will be more comfortable now, and that you'll be hearing that familiar nicker soon. Try to shake off those bad feelings you are having...it will be okay.
Take care, Kathleen. I wish you all the best!
(He looks like a very kind, gentle horse)!
DJ
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2006 - 4:12 pm:
DJ.
Yes, he is a kind gentle soul. I got a call from the equine hospital and they will be keeping Yogi at least through the weekend. We may be able to pick him up on Monday. They said the surgery site looks good and they are keeping him as comfortable as possible and that he is a very good patient.
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2006 - 4:41 pm:
This sounds good! As comfortable as he probably is, he'll still be glad to be home!
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2006 - 7:14 pm:
Yes, he misses his 'herd'. He was used as a breeding stallion for a couple of years and he still has that part of him that makes him think he has to watch over all horses around him, even the gelding next door. If any one of them gets out of his sight, he calls to them. Also, Mona is his favorite and she misses him too. He is the first and only horse she feels comfortable enough to lay down when he is near. Before, when we boarded them, she never would lie down in the pasture, but as soon as she was in her stall and had eaten, she would lie down and take a nap. They all have their quirks, don't they. When Yogi gets home, he'll start thinking sending Libby his positive thoughts. What thoughts Mona is sending is anybody's guess. hope Libby is better and home soon.
Kathleen
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 - 4:04 pm:
Kathleen-
Have you heard anything concerning Yogi?
Thinking of you.
Keeping you, and Yogi, in my prayers.
DJ
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 - 7:13 pm:
DJ,
Dr Bonney called last night and said he is doing well and that they are starting to cut back on his sedation and pain meds. We should able to pick him up some time tomorrow.
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 - 10:48 pm:
Good news!! I know you can't wait to get him home. We're thinking of you both. 
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Member:
Djws
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 17, 2006 - 11:44 pm:
Have a safe trip bringing Yogi home.
I know he'll be happy to be back home with you!
My best to you both.
DJ
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Member:
Pbauer
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 4:21 am:
Hi,
I'm so happy that your family will be altogether again! Give him a big hug for me.
Thinking of you,
Tonya
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 1:59 pm:
Yogi is home. I am pleasantly surprised by how good it looks and he doesn't seem to be in any pain. It is still draining, a little swollen, but looks good.
See for yourself
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 2:33 pm:
Thanks for posting pics, Kathleen.
Isn't it a relief to know that he isn't suffering from the pain of it? It lessens our pain, too, doesn't it? He's a very sweet looking boy, and I am sure that he is so glad to be home with you.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 3:45 pm:
Oh, thank goodness, Kathleen! I know you are so relieved to have him home. He IS a sweet looking guy! Did you buy him some cookies? Libby says they help her a lot.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 4:20 pm:
So glad to hear that Yogi is doing well, Kathleen. I'm sure he (and you!)is much relieved that his eye is no longer so painful. along with those cookies, give him a big ear scratch & rubbing from all of us.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 5:14 pm:
Yogi says thanks to all of you. But he asked me to let Sara know about his favorite treat, frosted mini-wheats. He thought Libby might enjoy them too.
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Sep 18, 2006 - 11:47 pm:
Great idea for a treat! I'm going to buy some tomorrow. Lots cheaper than the cookies, too. Tell Yogi "thanks." Horsey hugs and kisses to Yogi, too. So glad he's home. Can't wait to get Libby home.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 7:24 am:
Watch the drainage Kathleen for signs of purulence (puss) as I would have expected that to stop after the 12 hours. What does the surgeon say about this, the surgery is a little atypical for me as it appears they have preserved the lashes.
DrO
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 9:11 am:
Thanks Sara, Yogi say hi to Libby.
DrO, I have not talked to the surgeon yet, will this morning. I, too, was surprised to see the lashes. He said his goal is to make it as natural looking as possible. After his description of what he found when he went in, I was expecting a huge cavity that you normally see. I can say that instead of taking the skin from around the eye like I have heard it done, his incision was forward of the eye, looks about 1/2" or a little more, can't really tell. Right now the only discharge is normal drainage, some bloody. Is the bloody drainage normal? He had it when they discharged him, so I assume it is. We were told to just keep it wiped off (very gently) and give him banamine if needed and to keep him stalled for another 5 days. The equine hospital vet discharged him and I am not sure Dr Bonney saw him yesterday before we picked him up. He called Sunday to say that Yogi was doing great and told the equine hospital he could be discharged. I will let you know what I find out from Dr Bonney.
Kathleen
BTW I love that he left the lashes. When the right eye blinks, so does the left. It looks like his eye is just closed. Dr Bonney did say as the drainage slows down there will be a small indentation, but not very noticeable. The vet who discharged seemed very impressed with the surgery also.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006 - 9:46 am:
DrO,
I just talked to Dr Bonney. He said most vets take out not just the eye, but all the muscles around it. He learned in human medical procedures about doing it this way when they are going to put in a prosthesis. He said it is a combination of traditional vet training and what he learned from human surgery. If anyone needs an equine (or small pet) eye surgeon, he is definitely the one. He impresses me more each time he examines Yogi. He will recheck the eye next week.
Kathleen
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 12:59 pm:
Update on Yogi,
Dr Bonney examined Yogi on Sep 28 and said things were going well. One suture had come loose and there is a small opening toward the back of the eye. He flushed it with genticin. Wants to see him again in a couple of weeks. Did not remove sutures, said he put them in to stay longer than usual. He said to expect some drainage to continue and also some mucous. The mucous was pretty bad for a while, but now just a little.
These are pics taken today. Yogi is to see Dr Bonney next week.
This front view is unfocused, but it is the best I can do right now.
DrO - how does this look to you?
Kathleen
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 1:48 pm:
"Doing well" is good news, Kathleen! I know you are anxious for him to be healed up and done with this. Give Yogi a hug and a treat from Libby and I. (Actually, Libby would probably give him scratches on his withers if they were together.)Best wishes.
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Member:
Kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 3:18 pm:
Sara,
I can just picture them giving scratches. What a beautiful sight.
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 11:10 am:
An update.
Yogi had to go back to our vet to have more of the skin and tear ducts removed and resutured. He gave it a guarded prognosis of holding and said he would probably have to go to another clinic where they can lay him down and remove all of the structures of the eye (as our vet said probably should have been done originally). Well, 10 days post resuturing, his eye is seeping gunk again and my vet today referred him to Retama Equine Hospital (where Dr Bonney - eye surgeon) did the original surgery. Another vet will do the surgery this time. My vet thinks this will solve Yogi's problems with his eye. Waiting for call from Retama about scheduling the surgery. Wish us luck, please as I think that Yogi has been through enough; but he is such trouper that he just goes along with everything and lets us treat the eye and doesn't complain (not very much anyway)
Kathleen
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 11:51 am:
Kathleen all the prayers and good luck to you and Yogi ! He has great strength and heart , so do you! From ALL of mine to you and Yogi our very best ..... Cindy
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 1:08 pm:
Kathleen,
Sending best wishes your way. It's been a long haul for you & Yogi and I surely hope that the one last surgery will be completely successful.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 7:29 pm:
Sincere wishes for a much deserved successful outcome. What a wonderfully patient soul Yogi is. You'll both be in my thoughts and prayers.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 7:41 pm:
Hello Kathleen,
Boy, I really thought once the eye was removed your problems were over. I am sorry to heat about your on going problems and believe they will find the source of the ongoing troubles and things should be fine after this. Keep us appraised and wishing you all the best.
DrO
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 8:18 pm:
Dear Kathleen,
Yogi will have improvement in his quality of life...you will, too, and that is a very good thing!
I'm sure your prayers and tender care will help, Yogi, recover quickly, and as, Lee, stated...a much deserved successful outcome.
Sending you and, Yogi, comfort and strength through prayer,
Tonya
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 4, 2007 - 10:08 pm:
Thanks everyone, the vet at Retama will check him on Wednesday and decide whether to do surgery or put him on antibiotics. Don't know what to think now, didn't know antibiotics was an option at this point. But I definitely vote for that over more surgery!!! Will keep you updated.
Kathleen
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 5, 2007 - 8:10 am:
Wishing you all the best, Kathleen. Let's hope a course of antibioitics will do the job perfectly.
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 10:18 am:
Hello all,
Well, Yogi is in surgery as we speak. Please send all the positive thoughts you can. The vet explained that due to already having two surgeries, there may not be enough skin left to suture and the wound may have to stay open and heal naturally. We are hoping that that is not the case, because there are so many things that can happen with an open wound anywhere, but I can't imagine how it would be with an open wound in an eye socket. Just hope that they can suture it, for my sake as much as his, as it scares me to have to take care of such a wound.
Kathleen
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 11:09 am:
Hi Kathleen. Prayers and good wishes are being sent for you and Yogi. I'm sure all this is as hard on you as it is on him.
Regardless of the type of wound he has, sutured or not, I have faith you'll deal with it just find. Somewhere you'll find the strengh, and you know where to come if you need knowledge and support!
I'll be looking for your post when Yogi comes out of surgery. Take care.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 11:19 am:
Kathleen, how about Capt. Jack Sparrow look alike ?! Eye patch and all.Yogi could carry off that dashing rouge look just fine! In all seriousness prayers for Yogi and fingers crossed. They do have fly masks with "buggle" eyes that would keep eye much cleaner.? Cindy
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 12:20 pm:
Thank you for your thoughts and prayers for Yogi.
Cindy, I can just see Yogi with an eye patch like a pirate. And he would need a parrot on his shoulder to make it complete. He would be so cute. And yes we have made a buggle eyed fly mask for him and will now modify it so that it cannot come off.
The vet just called and Yogi is out of surgery and standing. They took all the musculature and were able to suture it closed, but are still concerned about the suture line holding. Also they are concerned that there may be some infection so he will stay at the hospital over the weekend and can come home Monday or Tuesday if all goes well. During the exam yesterday, they asked more than once if he had been on antibiotics after the surgeries and he wasn't, so I was wondering whether or not it is normal practice to give antibiotics after a surgery such as this? DrO?
Will keep you posted.
Kathleen
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 2:01 pm:
Kathleen,
Your courage is apparently contagious and Yogi is a fine example of that. Kudos, hugs and hope to you both.
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 7, 2007 - 11:56 pm:
Hi Kathleen, thinking of you guys tonight. My mare Chelsea had five days of Bactrim after her enucleation, however, I don't know if it is routine. I would like to offer the use of her Guardian mask if you need it. We don't use it at all, as she is fully healed, so it isn't doing anything. I'd be delighted to put in it the mail overnight and know it was being useful, just let me know... Stacy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 6:08 am:
The choice of antibiotics, or not, following surgery is determined by a number of factors including the circumstances that surround a particular case.
We do enucleation in the open, on the ground, so we usually do three days of antibiotics. If we had a sterile field to work in no, antibiotics would not be routine. But we do a different surgery removing the muscle and lids.
DrO
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 9:56 am:
Cindy, thanks for your thoughts. They mean a lot to me.
Stacy, thank you for your offer of the Guardian Mask. We have one, but he can get that one off also. We may try to modify that one also. We have put a clear full plastic racing cup inside a regular fly mask and that one stays on longer, but not forever. We will modify that one first as the hard plastic will protect the eye a little better, but I have to take it off every day to give it more air and to clean it. Maybe we'll rotate between the two masks. Again, thanks for the offer, it was very nice of you.
Dr O,
The initial surgery was performed in a sterile surgical suite, thus no antibiotics. The second was done in stocks at the vet's office, but no antibiotics. Don't think it would have made a difference by then. Will keep you posted, we are going to see him tomorrow.
Thank goodness Yogi is so strong and stoic.
Kathleen
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 2:39 pm:
Yogi comes home tomorrow!! They say he is doing fine and comes home with antibiotics to take for a while. Can't wait to get him home, but worry about him injuring that eye on a tree or something. Think I'll restrict him to his stall with access to a small grass paddock without trees. Anyway, it will be good to get him home. Mona has missed him, she stands in his stall looking out the door and isn't eating as much as normal.
Kathleen
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 4:40 pm:
Congrats Kathleen! Hopefully all will go smoothly since he had already adjusted to life with one eye after enucleation. Best of luck, Stacy
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 7:03 pm:
Kathleen, nothing but great "happyness" for all 3 of you. Just put tee post caps on tree limbs! Cindy
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 10:07 pm:
Kathleen, best wishes for complete healing for Yogi. I had a horse that had lost the sight in one eye because of recurrent uveitis. He did just fine. You just had to speak to him when you were working on that side so he would not be surprised.
Lilo
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 12, 2007 - 12:06 pm:
Well, he's home now and doing fine and looks great. Let's hope third time's a charm. Three surgeries on one eye is enough for anyone. (He's been blind in that eye for a few years, so that will not be a problem.) He's been off pain meds for three days and is staying on antibiotics for the next 10 days. The handlers at the hospital took him for walks twice a day and called him a gentleman and he talked to all the mares with their foals every time he went out. Cindy, there are not enough tee post caps in the world to cap all the branches in our woods so he'll be limited to two small paddocks with minimal trees that have been trimmed up to 10 feet. Thanks for all your support.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 12, 2007 - 4:09 pm:
Afraid of that but I could send him his pirate parrot?? Let me know, GLAD he is home! Cindy
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 - 9:26 am:
Kathleen, I'm so glad Levi is home again and doing well. Give him hugs from Libby! I hope this is the end of his eye problems. The two of you have certainly been through enough! Please keep us updated on his progress.
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 7:22 pm:
Update on Yogi,
Don't know it this is related to his eye problem or not, but Yogi colicked this morning and he is in the hospital for now. We can't figure out why he colicked, but he has a fever and high WBC. Don't know the exact numbers, were more interested in watching Yogi. He is depressed also. DrO, or anyone else, does this ring a bell with anyone? The vet said probably infection somewhere, but the eye looks so good, don't know if that is the cause or not.
To add to the fun this morning, we got back home, unhooked the trailer and found Mona lying flat out and she was trying to roll and wouldn't get up. Gave her banamine and walked her for 25 minutes and each time I stopped for any reason, she tried to lay down. I let her lay down once and first thing she did was start to roll. So hook up the trailer and take her to the vet. She is in a stall overnight across from Yogi. Think her's was simple gas colic, but they wanted to keep her overnight to keep an eye on her. She was a little dehydrated so she is on IV fluids same as Yogi. I believe that her colic is due to ulcers and they will probably scope her tomorrow morning. Will keep you posted. Please keep them in your thoughts.
Kathleen
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 9:37 pm:
Kathleen, I'm sorry to hear this news - both horses in the hospital! You must be beside yourself.
My best wishes are on the way for you, Yogi and Mona.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 11:25 pm:
Good Heavens, Kathleen, how terrible. You're sure there is no link? Don't forget to take care of yourself.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 12:46 am:
My gosh, Kathleen! I'm so sorry about Mona, and Yogi having colic too; and I apologize for mixing up Yogi and Levi in my previous post.
Please keep us posted on both of them. I'm sure you've checked their feed,hay, water, etc. Could Mona have been upset because of Yogi, and so she colicked? (Anything is possible with these guys,imo.)
Hang in there, girl. We are praying for you and sending good thoughts your way.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 7:04 am:
If we put the symptoms of colic and fever together, certainly colitis rises to the top of possibilities and since it is often a disease of stress and hospital environments, the history concurs but these are just guesses.
They may probably find ulcers on the ultrasound but as to whether they caused the colic I think that will remain conjectural. What is there about this horses's history other than the colic to suggest gastric ulcers are likely?
DrO
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 9:48 am:
Again thanks for your thoughts everyone.
Sara - we took flakes of alfalfa and coastal from the last batch that we had delivered last Thursday, but they did not find anything wrong.
DrO - Colitis is something I hadn't thought of with Yogi. Mona is the one we are concerned about the ulcers. I have posted previously about our 8 year fight trying to get her ulcer free. Morven Park finally treated her long enough to rid her of the ulcers and she has been ulcer free for 7 years now. Since Yogi was gone about a week with this last surgery, we are guessing that she was stressed enough to cause the ulcers and then we take him away again and that stressed her more. She is very sensitive and is very attached to Yogi. She relies on him for moral support always. She even protected him from our other horse while Yogi was stalled with the first surgery. That is why I brought up the ulcers in the first place.
The vet called this morning and Mona is perky and looks good this morning, but since she has already fasted 18 hours, they are going to go ahead and either confirm or rule out ulcers. Yogi is still depressed, has passed very little poop and is running a fever again. I will ask them about the colitis when he calls after Mona's scope. That's all the news I have for now. I am pretty worried about Yogi.
Kathleen
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 10:09 am:
How awful, Kathleen. You've had more than your fair share of suffering over Yogi's eye, as has he, and now to have poor Mona in hospital as well! At least they can see each other - it should be less stressful for them.
Sincere wishes for a swift recovery and homecoming for both of the. Try not to worry (impossible of course).
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 11:35 am:
Kathleen, been gone for a couple of days and am very sorry to find both Mona and Yogi in trouble! If your feed tested OK then one question has there been aerial spraying close by ?? Near us several people had horses colic after spray plane missed his location and spray drifted onto pastures? My bet Mona knew where Yogi was and KNEW how to get there too! Cindy
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 12:52 pm:
Kathleen,both of them in the hospital! how awful!
I can understand you are worried I would be completely stressed out. I keep my fingers crossed and send[especially to Yogi as he seems to need it most] my best wishes
Jos
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 7:35 pm:
Dear Kathleen,
I know you're going through a tough time right now...putting in a lot of overtime and hard work.
The most important thing I can do to improve your situation...is to keep praying for you and your babies.
I received an e-mail today that encouraged me, and I'd like to share it with you. It's about God's love and faithfulness:
If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it.
If He had a wallet, your photo would be in it
He sends you flowers every spring.
He sends you a sunrise every morning Face it, friend - He is crazy about you!
God didn't promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow,sun without
rain, but He did promise strength for the day, comfort for the tears, and light for the way.
Read this line very slowly and let it sink in...
If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.
Send this to every "beautiful person" you wish to bless.
Kindest Regards,
Tonya
P.S. You have certainly been a role model for me!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 9:31 am:
Kathleen,
Best wishes to you and your two special horses. May Yogi and Mona both recover from this latest setback.
Lilo
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 10:11 am:
How are Yogi and Mona today, Kathleen? I hope there's been improvement and they can both come home soon. Have you gotten the results from the scope yet?
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 5:43 pm:
Mona and Yogi are now home and feeling fine. Mona's scope showed a very healthy stomach. They think Yogi had a viral infection. I think Mona stressed from Yogi being gone for a week and then when he left again, she just got too upset. They are both back to feeling like their old selves again and it is to great to see. Mona is being very possessive of Yogi and is being very mean to Annie (our other mare). Hope everything settles down soon. Thanks for all of your emotional help.
BTW they removed Yogi's sutures from his eye and it looks great!!!
Kathleen
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 6:04 pm:
Oh, Kathleen; HOORAY!! I'm so glad and can feel you relief way over here! Give them big hugs.
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 6:20 pm:
Great news Kathleen. Best wishes for continued health for all. Leilani
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 6:34 pm:
Dear Kathleen...WONDERFUL NEWS!!
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 6:34 pm:
Wahooo .. Great news...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 7:01 pm:
As it should be Cindy
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 20, 2007 - 9:49 pm:
What a relief! So glad to hear the wonderful news.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 21, 2007 - 1:18 am:
Nice.......nice....very, very nice.......
Pheeeeewww.....good, Kathleen.
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