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  Discussion on Warm/hot nail?
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Member:
Dres

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2003 - 10:25 am:

something new for me... my horse showed up lame 11/12 days after a new pair of shoes... i kept him in for 7 days he was still lame, i had the vet out yesterday to do an evaluation on him..

there was a digital pulse on the right front.. he showed sensitivity to hoof testers on two nail holes.. we continued with flexion tests then blocking of his right hoof... he trotted out sound...

so the vet pulled the right shoe and said that there were two questionable nail holes, said that they 'could' have been warm nails that worked themselves HOT...

i have never heard of this before, so we are treating him according to hot nail, and will put the shoe back on in a week to reevaluate...

my questions is... could a nail become HOT 11/12 days AFTER shoeing..??


thanks as always ..Ann
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 16, 2003 - 9:13 pm:

Yes, it is possible. I find the best way to find hot nails is by very gently tapping the clinch with the foot on the ground. Tap the healthy foot first then once the horse gets use to what you are doing go to the lame foot. When you hit a bad one it loks like the horse got an electrical shock. Sometimes you can just pull the sensitive ones, soak, and get by without pulling the shoe.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Sunday, Jan 2, 2005 - 7:02 pm:

Looking for advice: Five weeks ago my farrier shod my 6-year-old gelding, who was previously sound. I'd just had surgery myself so wasn't present as I usually am - 2 days later my trainer got on him and he was slightly lame in his right front. My farrier then admitted that he'd "quicked" him at the time of shoeing (last nail, outside right front), said he'd pulled the high nail out right away and put another in lower, and thought he'd be fine. We pulled that nail out, put iodine in the nail hole and kept our fingers crossed that it wouldn't abscess. He's still not sound in that foot - at first he reacted pretty strongly to hoof testers around the bad nail hole and periodically did have heat in the foot - at which point I had the shoe pulled and started soaking for an abscess. But after a few days of this, and after both vet and farrier pared out the area of his hoof wall but were unable to find an abscess, the vet had me put the shoe back on, stop soaking, and start using iodine to toughen the hoof. Farriers were still thinking abscess, but vet wanted a pad on. When we put the pad on, he was worse (maybe sole pressure from the packing between pad & sole?), so at my vet's suggestion, we cut out the pad, leaving a rim pad, and put him on bute for 6 days. By then, he had no heat in the foot, and after multiple exams and even x-rays (which showed nothing), the vets all agree that there is no abscess. He looked sound on the lunge line two days after the last bute dose, but when I rode him he was still slightly off on the right front on turns. Then today he was more lame to the right. My vet thinks this is a bruise, caused by the misplaced nail, and says it can take 1-3 months to heal. I feel I'm getting nowhere and he's no better (or worse) after 5 weeks than he was at the beginning. I'm still putting iodine on his foot, but that's all I'm doing for him, and he is turned out during the day, which doesn't seem to make him any worse. He is sound at the walk but not at the trot to the right, especially on turns. Is this just going to take more time, or are we missing something? He was in glue-on shoes over the summer because he has fairly thin walls and the wet weather we had around here kind of weakened them, but he was always sound, and his feet are in better shape now than they were then. Am considering putting him back in glue-ons, in case there is pressure from a nail that is still causing pain in the area bruised by the bad nail all those weeks ago - it's almost time for another shoeing and still he's lame. Any suggestions?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 3, 2005 - 7:31 am:

Without examining the horse Kay, I cannot know if the cause of the lameness was the misplaced nail, it certainly seems likely.

Once the shoe is off you can explore the old suspicious nail holes by paring out all damaged horn, you may find a abscess that has been able to drain enough to prevent worsening lameness but not enough to resolve. If you do not find anything why not leave the nail out of this location?
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Monday, Jan 3, 2005 - 12:37 pm:

Thanks for answering. Actually, both my vet and farrier have tried paring around the offending nail hole - the farrier went back a second time to try and find an abscess, but couldn't really drain anything - a little old dried blood, but that's about it. I soaked it for the next week but nothing much seemed to drain, and at this point (5 weeks since the original shoeing incident), my vets definitely do not feel there is any abscess in the foot - both the amount of time that has passed, the failure to find anything to drain, and the fact that the horse doesn't seem lame enough for an abscess, and goes sound on only 1 gram of bute. So they're saying it must be a bruise, caused by the nail, or else just that the wall around the nail hole or the shoe is moving a little, or something. My vet took x-rays of the foot, just to be sure, and saw nothing amiss on the film. We did leave the nail out of that location (pulled it out 2 days after it went in, as soon as I knew he was lame), but that didn't seem to make any difference, either. However, when my farrier removed the shoe to put the pad on, he did put a nail in that location, only lower. So that's still there now, although the pad is reduced to only a rim pad under the shoe, which is a wide web steel shoe.

This horse does have fairly thin hoof walls - since my vets seem so certain there is no abscess, I'm considering having the farrier take all the nails out of his feet and putting him back in a glue-on shoe, which might minimize any movement of the shoe or irritation from a nail (?) in the right front and give some additional protection to part of his sole - but I'm a little worried about doing that because when we tried a leather pad with packing material under it, he went considerably more lame, which must have been from sole pressure of the uneven packing, I guess. This seems like a long time for him to stay lame from a briefly misplaced nail with no resulting abscess, doesn't it?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 3, 2005 - 1:37 pm:

Absolutely, a unusually long problem. More useful than a radiograph is a PDN block of just that side of the foot. Since it is the heel nail it should block at least 50% with this procedure. If not you might have other problems too.

Assuming the lameness still localizes to this area, just because past exams have not been curative does not mean a thorough exam should not be done again: maybe this time will be the charm. I personally do not put shoes back on horses with brewing abscesses, the areas of most interest are hidden by the shoe.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 4, 2005 - 11:29 am:

Yes, a couple of the vets in the group suggested doing a nerve block to rule out some other factor, while the vet who's been most involved feels the history/physical is so clear-cut in pointing to the foot and the outside nail that it's unnecessary to block. The issue, of course, is figuring out if this IS a brewing abscess (in which case it's been brewing for a heck of a long time without much progress), or if it's just a persistent, deep bruise somewhere up in the foot - which one of my vets said can take 1-3 months to heal. I know it's possible for an abscess to fester in the foot for a long time and undermine the whole sole without showing itself, because I've had that experience with horses in the past. But everyone thinks he'd be more lame, in that case, and wouldn't go sound on a gram of bute. Also, of course, the more times someone digs around in his foot, the more damage is done to the hoof and the more sensitive it becomes - worth it if there IS an abscess that we can find and drain, but if not, it's just making things worse, so it's really hard for me to know what to do. The vets told me to stop soaking and start putting iodine on to toughen up the hoof, but of course if it is an abscess that's exactly the wrong thing to do.

We kind of tentatively decided yesterday to take the nails out of his foot and put a glue-on shoe on him next week when he's due to be reshod, but before we do that my vet is coming to look at him one more time (on Friday), and before THAT happens, my old farrier whose judgement I trust more than anyone's is going to come and take a look at him. Even though the vets keep insisting there couldn't be an abscess, everyone knows we need to be sure of that before sealing it up with a glue-on shoe. I hope we can get to the bottom of it with all this, because it's dragged on way too long and I feel I'm not doing much of anything to speed it up or resolve the problem.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 5, 2005 - 6:17 am:

I know this is frustrating for all, let us know how it goes.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 - 3:48 pm:

Here's an update: My old farrier came over last Friday and tried to find an abscess in the lame foot. With hoof testers, he located the most sensitive area back toward the heel, although he was sensitive on the whole outside of that foot, which was also warm. He never found anything he could drain, but he did find some evidence of old abscess, undermining, and what he called "channels" that went from the area of the back outside nail (where the problem started 6 weeks ago) to near the toe on the outside. He made about 3 small but deep holes, stopping when he got blood, and told me to soak the foot once a day and then pack it with Magna Poultice and wrap it. I think my vets were still skeptical that it was an abscess, actually. My horse got steadily lamer each day after that, until Monday night he was so sore he could barely walk or stand on the foot. I made arrangements to get another set of x-rays and if we couldn't resolve the problem, to take him to New Bolton Center (U. of PA). I was really worried that there might be something we'd missed, or that infection was spreading to the bone or joint or something. The next morning (yesterday) he was quite a bit better, though. I THOUGHT this was acting just like a typical abscess except that we'd already had 6 weeks of varying degrees of lameness and no one had been able to find the abscess all this time. When my vet came to take x-rays we unwrapped his foot and noticed that the hole my farrier had made near the toe looked like it had started draining, and sure enough, there it was. So now I'm continuing to soak and wrap his foot for a couple more days; tomorrow my vet will come back to re-check. The horse is still a little sore but obviously much, much more comfortable, and I'm hoping this will take care of it. If so, we plan to put glue-on shoes with rim pads on him in a few days (the Sigafoose shoes, which my farrier says are excellent for sore-footed horses - in addition to the built-in rim pad, they are completely concaved so there will be no pressure on the walls, which look a bit like swiss cheese now with all the holes from hunting for the abscess, until they grow out).

So it's a little unusual, but it turns out that it CAN take this long for an abscess to find its way out of the hoof. Apparently the infection went in more than one direction and was very deep. The fact that my vets and farriers couldn't agree on the diagnosis or treatment maybe prolonged it some, since for a lot of the time he was wearing a shoe and being turned out, with no soaking our poulticing. Of course, a lot of the time he was only slightly lame, and it didn't look much like an abscess.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 12, 2005 - 4:29 pm:

i am surprised that an abscess that took so long to rear its ugly head, was pretty high up. Wouldn't it just blow out the top of the coronet band?

What makes an abscess go up or down? My mare has done both. Once out the top of the coronet and once normal through the sole.

what are the statistics of horses shod vs. going barefoot that get abscesses? anyone know?

Curious.. is your horse a slow grower? would that have anything to do with it? Glad to hear this is all it might be.

joj
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2005 - 10:40 am:

joj, I'd be interested in knowing the answers to these questions, too. Maybe Dr. O can help us out on this? All I know is that my horse's problem appears to have started with the high nail at his last shoeing; if not, it's a pretty big coincidence, although I suppose it's possible there was some other cause, like a bruise. I think whether a horse is shod or barefoot is only one of many variables in the likelihood of abscesses, though. Weather/ground conditions play a big part - how soft is the horse's hoof, how hard is the ground, is it rocky, etc. But of course, anytime something like a nail penetrates the deep tissues, there's got to be some potential for infection, right?

No, I wouldn't say my horse is a slow grower. His hooves grow at an average rate, depending on the time of year, condition of the grass, etc., just like any horse.

I don't know why this infection seemed to migrate forward and back in his hoof for weeks, rather than just going up or down (preferably down, to drain out the bottom). That only happened after my farrier was able to find and follow the channels of infection and make openings over the areas he thought most likely involved, and then the soaking seemed to do the rest.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2005 - 1:37 pm:

Slow grower = slow abscesser?
No they are not related. If the infection has a place to drain but does not drain well enough to resolve you can have a situation like this go on for some time without it ascending the wall and popping out at the top.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 1:26 pm:

Yesterday my vet said that abscesses will follow the path of least resistance in the hoof. He kind of suggested that the fact that my horse has thin hoof walls, maybe a little wall separation right now, might have had something to do with how the infection kind of migrated around for 6 weeks rather than popping out at the sole or coronary band. I'm not quite sure how the two things would be related, but anyway. Also, I wonder what would have happened if my farrier hadn't opened up several channels for drainage last week, even though he couldn't find any actual drainage at that time. Would the infection have dried up eventually on its own, but maybe done more damage to the underlying sole, or what? I'm sure the lameness would have been prolonged still more, anyway. I also wonder why my vets were so insistent that it couldn't be an abscess since it didn't drain after 2 or 3 weeks, and since the horse wasn't that lame most of the time. Maybe if we'd been treating it AS an abscess from early on, the whole thing would have resolved a lot sooner?

At this point, my horse looks a lot better, and there doesn't seem to be any more drainage from the hole where it drained earlier in the week. We're just hoping there isn't another pocket of infection up in his foot somewhere, but it feels cool now and digital pulse normal, and he's not very sensitive on it anymore. I'm continuing to soak and wrap his foot for a few days, and at this point we're planning to put glue-on shoes on him early next week. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 15, 2005 - 10:56 am:

Well, a month later, still don't have my horse back into work, but I do have follow-up news: I called over to New Bolton Center, and Dr. Martin there looked at my horse's x-rays, then suggested I take him to Marion DuPont Scott Equine Medical Center in Leesburg, Virginia, for an MRI of the foot, as that would be the only way to really get a good diagnosis, since the x-rays didn't really show anything. So last week we hauled him down there for a complete lameness work-up, which included nerve blocks of the foot, digital x-rays, and finally the MRI. They kept him overnight to repeat some of the MRI views and to analyze them. Resulting diagnosis: no infection is present now in the foot, and all the structures (bones, tendons, ligaments, etc.) are normal and look good. There is an area of inflammation in the laminae on the outside of the foot, corresponding to the area where the bad nail originally went in, and also corresponding to an area of roughness on the x-rays of the P3 (coffin bone), which the vet also attributes to inflammation. I left him down there to be re-shod by their farrier (front shoes had to come off anyway for the MRI), and at that point they noticed that he had a significant imbalance (medial-lateral) of that hoof (strangely enough, the left foot didn't look nearly so bad). So all his weight has been coming down on that outside wall, causing crushing of the wall and underrunning of the outside heel - which the vet now says is a big contributor to his current problem - even though the actual lameness was probably STARTED by the high nail. So their farrier did some serious corrective work on him, and it really does look a lot better. He's on stall rest (only handwalking/grazing allowed) for 3 weeks, a week of bute, and then we'll see where we are and if he can gradually start back into work. We're going back down for another shoeing and re-check in 4 weeks (3 wks from now) - impossible to completely correct the hoof imbalance in one shoeing. (Luckily, I have insurance to pay for most of this! Well, not the corrective shoeing, but at least the diagnostic stuff). It's possible that there was some infection at some point after the nail injury, but if there was, it's gone now - and it may have been more of a bruise situation, I guess. I don't think we would know, still, what to do if it hadn't been for the MRI. If there had been evidence of infection, they would have done a surgical procedure to clean it out, but that wasn't necessary. Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll soon have a sound horse again - and trying to figure out what to do about farriers in the long run so the imbalance doesn't get out of hand again somewhere down the road.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 6:30 am:

Wow, quite a story! Is the horse any sounder following all this?
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 8:40 am:

Yeah, it did turn into quite a story (sorry for such a long post, but. . .) Remy (my horse) was jogged immediately after the corrective shoeing and was much improved, but not completely sound. The vet at Leesburg said that wasn't surprising, though, that it will take a period of rest & anti-inflammatories to resolve the area of inflammation in his foot. It's now almost a week later; I've been handwalking him but haven't jogged him for soundness yet. I think he's walking much better, though, taking bigger strides and stepping down out of his stall more confidently. Will let you know how things look in a couple of weeks, after the 3 weeks of prescribed stall rest are up. Interestingly, the farrier who has been shoeing this horse for the past year or so says that the outside heel was always his HIGH heel - so the low heel and wall on that side, we think, are a result of having been trimmed off by the guy (not my usual farrier) who shod him in the glue-on shoes 2 wks. or so before he went down to Leesburg. This was at the suggestion of my long-time farrier (who was out of town and couldn't do it himself), and it was obviously one of a long chain of mistakes that contributed to this mess. Now the outside of his foot has to be built up until it grows enough to be trimmed properly.
Member:
Christos

Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 4:39 am:

I do not understand your January 12th post, Kay.
A farrier that misses what turned out to be a serious imbalance drills holes on the hoof all the way to sensitive tissue, horse goes completely lame, then when the holes start draining a few days later he says he found an abscess? Can't the drainage be a result of the holes themselves and not an existing abscess?
It sounds to me like the horse recovered despite this treatment and not because of it.
DrO, is the random drilling of holes accepted practice in the search for an abscess?
I do not mean to criticise the farrier, I am just very puzzled.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 6:40 am:

As I reread the post Christos, I don't get the feeling he randomly drilled holes. Instead chose the areas that were most painful or the old areas of horn that had been undermined by infection. Is it possible that the exam caused the acute worsening? Possible but if the holes were large enough to drain effectively and received proper attention I think it is much more likely that the farrier just was unable to find the best place to drain so the abscess worsened until it broke out (see the post a few days later).
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 10:20 am:

I understand your confusion, Christos, as this has been puzzling for everyone involved - at least until the MRI shed some light on what was (at the moment, anyway) going on inside the lame foot. I do think the whole problem was, basically, farrier-caused, but it's not as simple as you think. Too long & complicated to go into in detail, but since this started at the beginning of December, my horse has been worked on by 4 different farriers and, um, let's see, at least 5 or 6 different vets. Needless to say, they didn't all agree with one another some of the time. The reason for all the farriers? My long-time, very good & experienced farrier left us because he'd been hired by some very wealthy, high-profile show clients who have him traveling all over the country, so we were turned over to one of his young former apprentices. That's the guy who nailed the horse; neither he nor any of the vets could find what at times acted like an abscess, but it wasn't for lack of trying - so his outer wall was pared around the area in question several times. We soaked, poulticed, did all the usual stuff, but nothing would drain. That's why I posted here in the first place. Eventually, in frustration, I managed to get my old, experienced farrier to come when he was briefly back in town. He spent most of a day carefully exploring the foot, using hoof testers to localize what seemed to be the most painful area or areas - but my horse is kind of over-reactive to the hoof testers and basically just not cooperative, so he doesn't tell you that much, since he reacts whether it hurts or not just because he doesn't like people messing with his foot. My old farrier did find what he thought looked like old, dried up tracts or channels of infection all the way across the outer wall, from the last nail hole where the hot nail had been, to the toe - and he very carefully made three small (but pretty deep holes) in the most suspicious areas, in hopes that with more soaking, they would drain. Remy got very sore and after several days something did drain from the front hole - but now I'm not really sure whether it was pus, or whether it was just blood-tinged serum that had built up in there. It didn't look or smell like pus - this question is still unanswered, as far as I'm concerned. I've read it's possible to get what looks like abscess symptoms from a bruise under the sole or wall that builds up serum around it, causing pressure just like an abscess - any thoughts on this, Dr. O?

Anyway, I kept soaking away. He did improve to almost sound, and my old farrier had recommended that after the "abscess" had finished draining, I have a DIFFERENT farrier in the area apply the Sigafoose glue-on shoe to his front feet (my old farrier was going out of town again, and the regular guy had no experience with that kind of glue-on shoe, while the third guy does). The reason was that my horse still seemed very tender all over his sole, and this is a cushy shoe with a thick rim pad, plus no nails or pounding on his foot. So I had that farrier over to put those shoes on. (I think he did a really bad job of trimming the feet, and that's at least part of the reason the right front was so out of balance 2 weeks later when we got down to the clinic at Leesburg. Also, he was supposed to put a hospital plate on the foot to protect those 3 deep holes in the wall, but he wouldn't do it, so it may have been re-contaminated or at least irritated by stuff getting up there - with the shoe on, it was really hard for me to clean the holes.)

Anyway, after initially looking pretty good with the new glue-on shoes, my horse got lamer again, and we thought maybe there was still some infection in there that hadn't managed to drain. Started soaking the foot again, with the shoe still on. Eventually the backs of both heel bulbs opened up and we thought it was about to drain there, but nothing really drained to speak of and the lameness didn't resolve. The heels may have just been sore and softened from all the soaking & split open, I don't know. Most of this whole time, by the way, there was some amount of heat in the foot, but not always in just one place - sometimes at the front, sometimes more at the back, sometimes both.

So I still don't know for sure if there was an abscess in the foot originally and it just eventually partially drained and then dried up after undermining part of the outer sole, or if there was just a deep bruise from the hot nail all along. All I know for sure, from the MRI that was done, is that there isn't any active infection or draining tract NOW. At the time of the MRI 2 weeks ago, all they found was the focal area of inflammation in the laminae in that area, with some evidence of slight bony changes on the coffin bone from the inflammation in the area. The vet at Leesburg said she thinks the lameness involved multiple factors, including the hot nail, possible infection, and the imbalance which was throwing all his weight onto the injured area, plus the holes put in the same area to try to drain infection. It was a comedy of errors (though not funny), I think, though everyone had the best of intentions. The corrective shoeing, rest, and bute are helping, I hope - another week of stall rest to go and we'll see where we are, hoping he'll be sound then. He's getting very sick of all this, and so am I. However, the prognosis is very good for complete return to soundess with the necessary rest and correcting the hoof imbalance, which will take several shoeings to completely accomplish.

I haven't decided yet who's going to be his farrier from now on, but I'm going to try to get the very best person I can. There's no substitute for experience when it comes to a farrier, I think. But at the same time, this was a really unusual situation. The farrier who nailed him feels really terrible about it, and it's not the sort of thing that would normally happen. Sorry for the length of this post, but it's impossible to tell the story in a few words!
Member:
Christos

Posted on Monday, Feb 21, 2005 - 12:16 pm:

Thank you, DrO.
Thanks for putting together such a lengthy reply, Kay. We all learn a lot from people who take the time to explain.
I wish Remy a speedy and complete recovery.

Christos

Member:
Dwinans

Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 - 2:23 pm:

Kay,

I feel your pain. My t-bred gelding (named Remy also, funnily enough) was diagnosed with pedal oestitis over a year ago. He has been sound ever since with corrective shoeing. He's now back in almost "normal" shoes but I always ensure that I have my farrier who I trust work on him.

Good luck!
Dawn
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Thursday, Feb 24, 2005 - 3:20 pm:

Thanks, Dawn, and I'm glad your Remy is doing well now. Would you mind telling me what sort of shoes he had, and has on? I've been reading up on farriery issues a lot, needless to say, and have learned a lot. But the farrier problem still looms large; after missing going on 3 months with my Remy over this, I really don't want to have any more mistakes made with his feet. My problem is, as I explained, my long-time farrier whom I do trust is just not very available to me anymore - although he did promise to come by next week when he's back in town, look at my guys, and talk about it. At this point, I guess I'm still going to take Remy back down to be reshod by the farrier in Leesburg in a week and a half or so. My local vet checked Remy today and he looked *almost* sound - definitely the best he's looked since this started (of course, he's a wild man after being in his stall for so long). Right now he has a heartbar shoe on the bad foot, rim pad, and the farrier build up the outside wall as much as he could with Equilox, filled the medial side of the foot with Equithane and left the lateral side (where the problem is) open, floated the shoe to take all pressure off the area, etc. I'm hoping when he's reshod this time he can come out of the heartbar and into either a regular shoe or at least a straight bar or eggbar type shoe if he still needs that support - my vet feels he shouldn't really be ridden much or turned out on the heartbar as he could make himself sore from concussion against the shoe if he does a lot. I'm pretty interested in going back to glue-on shoes with him; I think since the farrier is already using the glue stuff to build up the outer wall of Remy's foot, he may as well glue the shoes on, have the additional cushioning of the glue, and not even try to nail into his feet at this point - although these shoes are nailed on with no problems.

My problem is who I'm going to get to keep everything good once we get it all straightened out. . .still working on that one. I'd sooner haul him two hours each way to Leesburg and back than take a chance on messing him up. But that's probably not a permanent answer.

Thanks again for writing.
Kay
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 25, 2005 - 8:48 am:

By all means come off those heart bars, I am not a proponent of them. It is my opinion that when enough pressure is put on the tip of the frog to support the coffin bone, the only reason that I can see for their use, too much pressure is put on the corium.
DrO
Member:
Dwinans

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2005 - 12:51 pm:

Kay,

When my Remy was diagnosed my vet and farrier chose to put him in a steel eggbar shoe with 6 degree wedge pads. He seemed to find immediate relief. He had to be on stall rest - I found that because of the weight of the shoes (and the thinness of his hoof walls) that when he was turned out he threw the shoes (along with half of his hoof).

We worked gradually to get him out of these extreme wedge pads. The next shoeing we kept the wedge pads but used aluminium eggbars wedges to make them a little lighter. I was now riding him lightly and he was sound.

The shoeing after that we were able to take one of the pads out. His angles have gradually gotten better and we are now down to plain flat steel shoes with a small wedge pad (which supports his heel almost like an eggbar). The pad is just a rim pad (I think that's what they are called - it is cut out in the middle so it doesn't have any filling material in it). He seems to be happy in this.

I have not had a lot of luck with full pads and the filler the farrier uses (although I know a lot of people who use it with success). It always seemed to ball up or something and cause pressure on bad spots that made him sore.

I do not have any experience with glue-ons but when I asked my farrier about it he didn't seem to think it was a good idea for my case.

I hope this has helped give you something to think about.
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2005 - 6:14 pm:

Thanks, Dawn, it does give me a lot to think about. Plus, it's just cool that you have a horse named Remy :-) Wow, 6 degree wedge pads are pretty steep, aren't they? Were his heels extremely underrun at the time? I had the same experience with full pads & filler much earlier in this long ordeal with my Remy - the filler seemed to bunch up and made him immediately much more lame. At the moment he does have a rim pad. Dr. O, the heartbar shoe is only on his right front - the foot that has been sore - and I'm hoping it will be coming off next week when he is re-shod, back down in Leesburg. He's been in the stall the whole time he's had that shoe, so hasn't done any work or play in it. The reasoning of the farrier, as I understand it, was to re-distribute the weight over that foot, to take as much pressure as possible off the sore area on the outside wall, to allow that inflammation to heal. There do seem to be a lot of different opinions on the heartbar shoe - I'm told that there are grand prix jumpers competing successfully in heartbars, but at the same time, they seem to cause worry to a lot of people, and I do know of cases where they made the horse worse. My horse does seem okay in it, as little as he's been doing. He appears much improved, but his right foot is still obviously out of balance. He's grown quite a bit of foot since he was shod, though, so I'm hoping this next shoeing will allow for a big improvement. Hoping also that I'll finally be able to let him out of his stall, get a sound horse back, and begin to put him back into work soon. I don't know what the next step will be: possibly an eggbar or straight bar shoe? Or a conventional steel shoe, maybe with rim pads? Or possibly either a straight bar or regular aluminum shoe glued on? My former farrier is promising to come and evaluate the whole deal day after tomorrow, which should be interesting. Then on Tuesday of next week we have our appointment in Leesburg. Hoping things will soon be looking a lot better, and I'll keep you posted.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 3, 2005 - 7:49 am:

Let us know what he says Kay.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Friday, Mar 11, 2005 - 2:41 pm:

Well, here's what happened. My long-time (until recently) farrier, in whom I have utmost confidence, did come by last week and evaluated Remy (from a shoeing standpoint, that is). We spent a long time talking, watching my horse track, etc., and the result was that my old farrier agreed to shoe him for me this time (he's out of town most of the time), to try to get things on the right track. He raised enough questions in my mind about the shoeing job done by the farrier at the hospital in Leesburg, that I cancelled that appointment. Kept him in the stall for another week until my farrier could do him (yesterday), and my current farrier came to work WITH my old farrier so they'd both be on the same page. I'm hoping that my current farrier will be able to maintain the balance of the hoof properly with this little jump-start, and I'm pretty confident he will - his basic skills are good and he tries hard. Anyway, the heartbar shoe came off, and now Remy's shod in a plain wide web steel shoe up front, with what is known around here as "pour-in pads." They're cushy pads that apparently don't create some of the problems other kinds of pads can, and will give some protection for hooves that tend to get too soft with the wet climate we have around here. That's it - he just balanced the feet, which were still way out of balance - right front (where he'd been lame) was very high inside, while the left front was high outside, among other things. It looks much, much better now. Today we put him on the lunge line and he looked good (after he finished bucking and playing awhile after a month plus in the stall). The plan is to give him a little playtime loose in the indoor ring over the next several days until our weather is supposed to warm up a little - the ground outside in the pastures is pretty treacherous right now, somewhat icy and slick, hard, and with frozen peaks and valleys since it was almost 70 degrees a few days ago, and now down in the 20s and 30s (where, oh where, is spring?). As soon as conditions get a little better, we'll give him some careful turnout with a pony babysitter, and if he stays sound, I hope to start riding him within a few days. It's going to take awhile to get him fit enough for real work again, of course, after more than 3 months off, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we've finally turned the corner.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2005 - 12:43 pm:

Sounds good Kay, I will keep my fingers crossed too.
DrO
Member:
Kayfry

Posted on Friday, Mar 25, 2005 - 2:24 pm:

Remy is finally one hundred percent sound and started back in work. He's no longer carrying heat in the foot that was lame, either. Now I just need to get him fit again after the long lay-up. Thanks to everyone who posted; I learned a lot from this unfortunate incident. I think in another month or so, we'll be back up to speed. It's great to have him back.

Kay
Member:
Dyduroc

Posted on Saturday, Mar 26, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Great news, Kay. Congratulations!

Wishing you great success in getting Remy back up to speed!

D.
New Member:
2brickie

Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 11:50 am:

Hey I just came across your post, and was reading about your not having luck finding a farrier you like. I haul my show horse three hours each way to get her feet done. She stays at the trainers that is 3 hours from me, and I have my own farrier that does my husbands show horses here, so I drive 3 hours there pick her up, drive 3 hours back, get her feet done and then do another round trip to deliver her back. I do this because my husband prefers the farrier that works with our vet to do their feet, that way if we have problems they work on it together. Which knock on wood we havent had problems. But an occasional close nail doesnt bother me to much, as the farrier we use tells me as soon as he does it, that it was done and if anything happens call him immediately and he will be back. I appreciate that he is honest and know that when you have these high strung show horses they dont always stand perfectly still. She also has thin hoof walls to which the farrier has put her on a special feed for that is helping. Grows her feet out really fast and they look 100% better than when we started. I am always in the barn when they are getting their feet done so we can discuss anything that is going on with them.

Good luck, I know that it was hard to find this farrier I have, but after 10 years I have finally found the one we use and will continue to use
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